i have recently purchased a d5n lgp and i have only ran case dosers before and when you push the decelerator on the case the dozer comes to a complete stop and the cat doesn't is that just the way the cat works or is there a problem?
If Case is hydrosat then it will stop,different transmission setup/The D5N should have powershift with convertor.If it was a D5G then it would act like the Case.What size Case was it?
the case is a 2006 650k and the d5n lgp is a 2005
i like when the dozer comes to a complete stop before switching from forward to reverse. so is there way to set up the decelerator to do that or will i just have to use the break?
No, if your using the dcelerator when going from forward to reverse your doing more than alot of operators.
is that not hard on the transmission? one of my employees dose not use the decelerator and it bugs the hell out of me, so should i cut him some slack?
There built to take it, but I always take a bit of power off when shifting. It is hard on the engine to wind all the way up from low rpm each time you change directions.
shifting from forward to reverse without deceling or stopping, will cause premature wear or failure or trans/drivetrain components.... machines are built tough but not ment to be abused. Something has to give. You have mechanical parts going in one direction, then being jammed in the opposite... not good. I was in a powertrains training course a few months ago and we talked about this very subject!
The torque converter takes the jamming out of it.
Oxbow, do you know how a torque converter and transmission works?
Nope, haven't a clue. But I do know that when I began running a 92V and 46A in the 70's the fellow that I was working for was on my case big time for decelerating all the way, stating that it was costly in fuel consumption, wear and tear on the engine, and production. I also know that on those same tractors if you remove the access plate under your feet you will see a short driveline, and somewhere on one end of that driveline is an engine, and somewhere on the other end is the transmission. Now if you have the engine running (watch your toes) and you place a foot on one of the brakes to prevent the tractor from moving, and place the transmission (I am refering to powershift, not direct drive) in gear, that driveline will stop without killing the engine or tearing anything else apart. This tells me that somehow something is absorbing alot of energy. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 plus thousand hours running dozers, so I still have a lot to learn, but in that time the only failure that we have had is on the bearings of the dead axle on the 92V. So something tells me that I have not been abusing these machines. I put about 4000 hours on a D6N that had the option for automatic downshifting, and that produced more of a jolt on the machine than any directional changes (I'm old and have never become accustomed to having the machine decide when it is best to shift). Now that I own my own business, if I saw an operator bring a dozer to a complete stop, change the shifter, and then pour the fuel to it I would be upset because he/she just lost 3 or 4 seconds of productive machine time, spent more of my money on fuel, was harder on the engine, all in order to save wear and tear on a system that was designed to function without having to do that. I have run almost entirely Cat dozers in my career, and very few hydrostatics. A few Komatsu's and Deere's, TD 20 and Fiat 31 I think it was, but mostly non hydrostatic Cats. Maybe on the Case tractors you must come to a complete stop, and maybe on some of the other brands as well, but I assure you that the Cat's, old and new, hold up well if you use the decelerator to take a little power off without braking or letting it roll to a complete stop before shifting. I am not a mechanic and I still have a lot to learn, so perhaps I am wrong, but that is my opinion.
hey Oxbow... without getting into any technical talk... would you take your nice new pickup truck, and without applying any fuel coasting at say 10km/h in forward..would you put it into reverse? you seem to be more worried about the engine then the powertrain.... the engine is a drop in the bucket compared to a trans/torque...the days of "pouring fuel" and black smoke are over. these engines are efficent and virtually bullet proof. Now you say you put 4000 hours on a D6, but did it or has that machine made the 15,000-20,000hr life ecpectancy? without overhaul? im not trying to be an arse! im really not!, ive rebuilt lots of transmissions, and almost everytime you go into the computer with a labtop, you will have harsh shifting codes, coasting in neutral codes and so on......i dont know just my opinion as well! keep on keepin on"
Jake, I do not move dirt with my pickup, it has a slightly different design and function. So say you put 40K into a machine @ 10,000 hours and made an additional 80K with it. Have you calculated cost per yard for component wear? Take a look at SoCal earthmovers on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5XFcmeT18 , watch the push cats when they change directions, do you think that they would do that if it were not cost effective? Cutting edges will last forever if you never put them in the ground. There is a destinct line between abuse and use, without use one cannot pay the bills. Just my opinion! Here is some information from Caterpillar on a D5N, the tractor that was purchased by tdonny that started the thread. Transmission. The proven planetary powershift transmission features five speeds forward and five speeds reverse and utilizes large diameter, high capacity, oil cooled clutches. To maximize the life of the transmission, the planetary design distributes loads and stresses over multiple speed ranges. • Controlled throttle shifting regulates engine speed during high-energy directional shifts for smoother operation and longer component life. • The transmission and bevel gear set are modular by design, and easily slide into the machine’s rear case, even with the ripper installed. • Forced oil flow lubricates and cools clutch packs to provide maximum clutch life. • Load compensating shifting provides smooth engagement of the clutches under loaded conditions. Multi Velocity Program (MVP). The MVP provides unquestionable
Product: TRACK-TYPE TRACTOR Model: D6R TRACK-TYPE TRACTOR 4TR Operation and Maintenance Manual D6R Track-Type Tractor Media Number -SEBU6887-06 Publication Date -01/10/2001 Date Updated -12/05/2004 i00074355 Changing Direction and Speed Speed changes and directional changes at full engine speed are possible. However, deceleration and/or braking is recommended when you change direction. This will maximize operator comfort and the service life of transmission components. 1.Push in the governor control lever in order to decrease the engine speed, or push the decelerator pedal downward in order to decrease the engine speed. 2.Push the brake pedal downward in order to stop the machine. 3.Move the transmission control to the desired direction. 4.Depress the button for the upshift or the button for the downshift in order to change speeds. 5.Release the brake pedal. 6.Increase the engine speed by releasing the decelerator pedal, or increase the engine speed by pulling backward on the governor control lever. This is what caterpillar recommends.... looks like 6 one way half a dozen the other, I agree with you that braking is excessive!, but I would highly reccomend decelling as much as possible!
The reason it's called a "powershift" transmission is because it's designed with the capability to shift under full engine power......... (note the underlined words). Whether an operator uses 100% of that capability is up to each individual operator. Having said that if I'm running a tractor on full rack I always hit the decelerator first, dab the brakes a touch if I think the tractor's still moving a bit fast, then make the directional shift and let off the decelerator at the same time. The particular conditions you're operating in at any given moment in time always have to be considered. As an example if you were dozing downhill the brakes would most likely be required for the forward->reverse shift at the end of each push but not for the reverse->forward shift after backing up the hill for the next push. The bigger the tractor the more momentum it has and the more important it is IMO to use both the decelerator & if necessary the brakes during direction changes.
Thank you Nige , I run dozers exactly as you describe, using a bit of brake if the momentum is not decreasing as in moving downhill, I am just not as succinct in my description. And Thank you Jake as well, I don't think that we are in as much disagreement as former posts may have indicated. The initial replies were directed to the thread starter who now is operating a different beast than the Case hydrostatic. I won't go so far as suggesting to decelerate as much as possible, but rather take the power away without letting the engine reduce it's rpm to idle speed.
Hi u all!!! I´ve a 2006 D5N XL that after working for about 15 minutes the engine goes idle, then I have to desengage the transmission and engage it back again for the engine increase RPM´s and work again for a couple of minutes about. There are no failure codes when scanned. I´ll appreciate any help!!! Thx!