Hey all! It's time to replace my undercarriage. Cat is absolutely bonkers wanting 20k per side. I see less than that for 2 sets with shoes for less. Anywho.. I was hoping for some opinions. I understand the same company or factory can make good or junk stuff. I also found out cat doesn't make their equipment, it's another brand they then rebrand. I see Delco is more expensive.. DCF currently has 2 sets of chains for 7,500 shipped. Does anyone have opinions on brand? More importantly, does someone know where I can get affordable good quality tracks quickly? I do heavy slot pushing. I do run over the occasional rock. I would prefer a chain with shoes BUT I'm currently planning on switching each shoe over to the new chin. Thank you again. I'm in southern CA.
Here in the UK,availability is dreadful on GET parts and undercarriages for D8/9 abs D10 tractors. Last week,I sold a D9 for a friend and struggled to get straight (or any answers) on suppliers….. ITR…..possibly 30/60 days but no rollers. Astrak Berco……..didn’t seem to know what they were doing and asked if system one was wanted for a D9!.Then they could offer no segments and no bottom rollers for 60 days possibly. Finnings Cat.Twice as expensive and only available 60/90 days.However,that didn’t include bottom rollers which they won’t offer until further notice. DCF……off the shelf availability and delivered 300 miles away inside 12 hours of payment. DCF is definitely not my cup of tea,but it was that or the tractor sit in its new owners yard for months waiting for Cat/Berco and ITR to bother rocking up at the party
I have a good undercarriage on my D9 with perhaps 60% worn according to my rough measurements and a D8 with maybe 70% worn. However,I bought an entire undercarriage for it in 2020 that’s still in the shed.It’s now gone up £6000 just by inflation,and I’ve got it when I need it. FYI Caterpillar tracks offer me the most expensive hourly running costs by far. ITM and ITR are the most cost effective and profitable for my operations
Yeah I'm bummed I gotta buy during this time! Oh well! I'm happy I found out "bad news" that I never noticed the dozer I bought.. the right side is much newer than the left. Good news with this is I should only need 1 set for now.. but would rather do 2 and have a spare.
Figured I'd share a pic or two . There's a couple others where the bushing is gone but pin isn't dead yet so good for another 2,000-,3,000 hours right?? Most are 85% worn. They were never turned. I'll probably be looking in to getting a machine to turn them myself in the future after getting new chains. Bugs my head to see 100% life on top and none on bottom.
If I got DCF or other brand.. would the cat brand rollers and such still fir? Would I need to replace everything? I plan to replace the sprocket.
I think you may be just a tad optimistic at getting another 2/3000 hours out of your chains.Perhaps you’ve had your pound of flesh out of them already? As for turning them,you may learn a few new words you’ve never heard of before at the machine shop. It’s also worth considering,that any extra money those tracks make for you could go towards the cost of repairing your fenders if they snap and roll up your fenders and hydraulic tank.
Robert,in my opinion your track trains are totally and utterly destroyed.They will break in the next few seconds,minutes or hours and possibly cause serious damage. Some pics of the idlers and rollers would be good
Ha yes, I had great humor when I said that. Once I saw how bad they were yesterday, I sent the soils engineer home and said I'll let him know when I repair it. The plan for now is have cat come out with their super hydraulic press and replace the pins and couple links for me until I find a new set. The rest are all super worn but not broken yet! When I showed the soils engineer the broken pin/bushing, I told him I would constantly joke to myself that's the link that's gonna kill me as I track 2:1 slopes.
The pads would also look better in a skip with ‘scrap yard’ painted on the side. Seriously though,you need to have a think about paying a lot of money or just leave it parked up
Fair play. I like your humour. Unfortunately,there are no smiley face emoji here!
Left side really worn compared to right. Never noticed that when I bought it.
I'll take a picture in 10 minutes as I pass the machine on the way to another job.
The tracks actually look far better in the last bunch of pics. It’s hard to imagine your wrecked bushes in your previous pics belonging to the same tractor. P.s I rate the R series D8 highly. Sold my D8R about 2019
The idlers and rollers look ok,but I’ve not got my glasses. I can’t imagine what’s happened to those bushes to wear off like that? The link height looks to be only 60% worn,yet pins and bushes are totalled
I'm glad you said that because I agree! I bought it used obviously.. I was told they replaced idlers, rollers and sprockets but kept the old chain. Then that's where I mentioned they never turned them. I'll have more pics soon, had to grab tools and throw in truck then the all important morning tea.. because once I start working I forget to eat or drink. Terrible habit. When I use the dozer, it glides quietly. It creaks when it gets to a bad bushing but for the most part it's super quiet. My new 210 excavator is louder on the tracks believe it or not.. they are too tight though. I need to loosen them a little. The engine is a whole nother story. I can hear the dozer engine from 50' away inside my new excavator cab with AC full blast ha. The excavator engine is like a little kitten.
Here's a good look at a few of the bushings. They all look like that except that broken one bad the broken one next to it with intact pin. Also see the right side sprocket for comparison to the left.
A couple of other concerns that probably need a closer look are your track adjusters and the cushions for your bottom roller bogeys. What I see on that undercarriage is that someone has patched with just enough parts to keep the machine going and then sell it. How many hours are on the clock?
Yeah they definitely pulled one over on me. 14k hours but it can't be trusted, I believe it was changed around 30k hours. I will have to look at both the things you mentioned. Will have to locate them.
On the track adjuster I'm referring to to how much cylinder is showing behind the front idlers. Most refer to that area of the track frame as the cannon and there is a big bushing in there. It gets worn when the undercarriage is that worn out. I begins to move around and then the oil in the track frame starts to leak out. The chrome on the cylinder also might start flaking. The bogeys carry the bottom rollers. The rubbers are what support the bogeys and over time they crush out. If you look at the bogey you can see a bolt that is on the side opposite of the pivot pin. Check the distance between that bolt and the bottom of the undercarriage.
Fortunately,the cannons look clean and dry,so hopefully no damage as such. As John says,it’s been patched up and had some jiggery pokery done in respect of the difference in each side track. Perhaps a full service with new oils and filters and screens cleaned up will be appropriate. Approx $1000 would cover all oils and filters and give things a fighting chance
In my experience turning pins and bushes on the tractor the size of a D8R is a waste of time & money. The additional Link Group life resulting from the pin and bush turn is outweighed by the cost of doing it. Your tractor appears to have Cat undercarriage on one side and aftermarket U/C on the other. My suggestion would be to have the dealer PSSR out to measure the undercarriage on your tractor and produce a report for you.? It's a FREE service and you would do well to take advantage of it. Your photos with a tape measure just don't cut it. So Cat are quoting you $20k per side. What exactly does that quote include.? You need to know the asnwer so that you can accurately compare quotes from different potential suppliers. For a full undercarriage overhaul I would suggest that you need to consider the following items (some of which have already been mentioned by others) in addition to the obvious items such as link groups, shoes, ilders, track rollers, and sprocket segments......... 1. Track tensioner seals and fibre wear rings. 2. Condition of equalizer bar centre and end pins/bushes, & associated hardware. 3. Condition of bogie pins both major and minor. 4. Condition of rubber bogie suspension pads. 5. Condition of steel bogie tip wear protectors - yours are worn out. Edit: 6. Condition of Pivot Shaft, machine frame bushes for the pivot shaft, and pivot shaft seals
If you look at the bushings on the pin pictures you will see a severe track frame mis alinement as the track is running hard to the outside. Bob
There's a few hundred bucks of new bolts needed as well. Even on small machines, most undercarriage shops don't turn the pins and bushings anymore. Labour rates are $150/hr. or more.
If this is the same tractor 7XM00754 that you had problems with previously it originally left the factory equipped with 22"-wide track shoes. Standard shoe sizes go from 22" to 32". What width of shoes is it wearing now and have you considered what shoe size you really need to accomplish the work you plan on doing with it.? Bear in mind that the narrowest shoe that allows you to achieve adequate flotation is what you should be aiming for.
If it is 7XM00754 it was have different type of track shoes
The undercarriage in that photo is not factory original either.
Hey Nige, I'm checking out aftermarket suspension and one asked if it's rigid or bogey.. I said bogey.. another asked if it's systemone or conventional.. do you know this answer? Thank you!
You are correct, it is bogie suspension. I find this question interesting. All D8R tractors (provided that you told him specifically it was a D8R) have bogie suspension, so why would he ask.? He ought to KNOW already. Your tractor is equipped with conventional Heavy Duty undercarriage. I suggest when dealing with any of the aftermarket suppliers you send them photos of the tractor so that they can see exactly what undercarriage is on it. Have you asked your dealer to measure the undercarriage as I suggested above.? I will repeat - it's a FREE service, take advantage of it. Have you considered the 6 items I mentioned in Post #24 above.? It has already been pointed out by another member that the tracks are misaligned and that has led to accelerated wear. The cause of that wear is most likely in one or more of those same 6 points, most likely #2 & #6 with possibly a bit of #3 thrown in for good measure.
I am getting ready to go look now. I'll do my best to locate those parts. Any guidance on where they are would be greatly appreciated! Those are all new parts I haven't gotten to yet. I'm about 80% familiar with everything now. Yes it's the same dozer as the issues in the past! While I'm fixing the tracks I'll also be working on injectors. Cat sos oil said engine has 40% diesel in it. I was told open the valve cover and turn the engine and watch the fuel lines for spray, otherwise it's probably injectors. That's where I'm at now. I'm hoping it's a line because if I don't see anything I'll need the next step. Have an opinion on how to look for the fuel leak? Do I open the valve cover and look for leaks? If none, what the ? Thank you!
Here is a video that explains high drive undercarriage. If you watch it on YouTube when the frame comes up you will see that there are other videos that explain other types.
Ok! Front left idler shows a little side wear from misalignment. Front right and two backs don't show any. Left rollers are a little worn with some damage to inner flanges but are not close to touching the pin master hub. The video says checking the rubber on the bogey is done by measuring from the bogey to the bottom of the side ram or whatever... In the back there is 1" clearance and as it goes toward the front there's more, up to 1.6" in front so half an inch difference for rubber that's above the rollers between back and front. No oil coming from anywhere. When I lift the front of the machine with the blade, the tracks do have play and go down like in the video.
I did notice slight rubber damage on the right pivot shaft. I've asked Cat if I grease these and no one at cat can answer that question. Had a tech out and they couldn't either.
And lastly, some pictures of the rollers.. are they single or double flange? It looks like both on either side. Also, one picture of the links showing .75" left in the front and about .4" left on the back of each link.
I'm calling the dealer now to ask for track inspection.
Good call. Ask the dealer rep who comes to measure your undercarriage to specifically look at the 6 items above & comment. Most of them are part of the undercarriage inspection anyway. If you give him the impression that they are going to get the business for parts & labour you will almost be able to make him jump up & down like a trained dog............. I can't be of any help regarding aftermarket suppliers for undercarriage of the size of your D8R because I've never dealt with any of them. See the attachment. Do you not check the oil level in the pivot shaft supply tank daily as per the maintenance instructions.? Do you even have a manual for the tractor.? They only cost $50 which would probably be the best money as regards bang for your buck that you ever spent on it.
No I didn't know about it. I asked Cat every time they come out to tell me anything I'm missing or not maintaining.. I think their techs need a bit more training. They said they think there's a way to grease it but don't know how.
So you don't have an Operation & Maintenance manual.?
I bought a digital copy years ago while working on drivetrain as you suggested then haven't touched it since. I need to find how to access it again. I did ask cat a while ago and they said they'll get back to me then both cat and I forgot. I need to give the daily schedule a good looking. I check all other fluids, do a walk around and let it warm up. I'll aim to do better!
The “digital copy” should’ve been an Adobe pdf document that you could have downloaded to your computer and had it available as a permanent reference. Contrast your approach with this guy and then compare the appearance of his machines with yours ..... “I got the operators manual out on the table with a cup of tea and box of biscuits and set about it in my spare time.” HeavyEquipmentForums
I noticed that the equalizer left side mounting was welded. This is probably why the left side of the track has not gone the right way.
Bingo I missed that but that is a major cause of a track mis alignment. I'm gonna bet the pivot shaft and bushing is worn out. Bob
I wouldn’t bet against the pivot shaft being so badly worn it can’t even be turned to get a 2nd life out of it even with new bushes. What’s the betting the oil tank is empty.? I was already assuming the equalizer bar was going to be toast. It wouldn’t surprise me to find the end bearings completely eaten away.
My thoughts are that your front and rear bogeys carry single flange rollers.Your middle two bogeys carry double flange from memory. Some D8N’s were offered without bogey’s and rollers were fitted directly to the track frame. Your pivot shaft seals may not be leaking simply because the oil has run out along time ago.You can open the little drain plug on the track frames and watch the oil come up as it purges the air out.Then you go up to the battery box and fill the reservoir back up to level.I fear you may be waiting a long time for the oil to purge itself through unfortunately. As for your eq bar ends,I can clearly see the seals still in place.They can be given two or three shots every few days.Don’t over grease them.Cat have struggled to get a definitive cure for lubrication and wear on these ends,and various modifications and upgrades can be found. I think the D8R had grease points in the engine bay for the centre pin?
That’s the plug that you want oil to purge through
It isn't hard to run up a bill on one of these. Now that your eyes are open a bit, you can ask the Cat rep all the questions posed here and maybe short circuit the usual phone calls once they have the machine in their possession giving you bad news about how much more it's going to cost. Make sure the rep includes miscellaneous hardware and environmental charges that get tacked on outside of any quotes that they do. It wasn't that long ago that $40K would have covered nearly every possible issue we have highlight for you. I'm thinking you are probably up around $60K now without messing with the bogeys and cushions. That would be exchanging the equalizer bar and any machine work that might be necessary for the pivot shafts and track frames.
With all that welding on the LH end of the existing equalizer bar I don't think it's going to qualify as a core for an exchange EQ bar. He is likely in for a brand-new bar. If we're going to run a pool on it then my number is North of $70k if everything is done and done right. Band-aid fixes don't count.
Thank you, I didn't get email notice of this response! Man they pulled one over on me lol!!
Thank you I'll try looking for this. Somewhere around the sprocket on the bottom?
Any chance you know how to grease the pivot shaft or is it only that oil? Nicky mentioned grease points might be in the engine bay? Thank you! So far looking at the shafts they're looking good and seals are in tact but I can't see the shaft under the seal. Could be a completely different story.
The grease points Nicky mentioned are for the equalizer bar, not the pivot shaft. Is there any oil in the pivot shaft tank.? See the attachment for location and how to check the oil level. IMO they didn't. They offered a machine for sale, it was up to the buyer to inspect it and find all this stuff before parting with the cash.
Very true it was my responsibility to look it over which is why I'm not freaking out, but they did say it doesn't have everything it did. They said the repacked the front cylinders, changed all the oils, it has no super worn parts except the chain, had new idlers, rollers, sprocket.. so the rollers and sprockets looked good but for a blast to the past.. remember it turned out the gears in the left final drive were shattered, there was a napkin stuffed inside the warning light so I couldn't see it blinking, the sensor wires for all filters were cut and bypassed, none of the oils were changed, the front cylinders were not packed, they said it had a new scavenger pump but I had to replace that and found a 1.5" rock inside the pump. I even hired a heavy equipment mechanic to look it over before buying. Now I know what to actually look at for the future.
Do you know where I grease the equalizer bar? I'll be crawling under in a bit and also checking that tank.
Well so far I've talked to 2 parts people and 1 service person at Cat.. I asked what kind of oil the pivot shaft takes.. none know and I'm waiting for a call back.. which I probably won't get. It's unfortunate I've asked Cat how to maintain the machine and please show me and they don't know. Yes I could read but when cat says just do this or that I should be able to believe them.
E-Bar centre pin is not greaseable on your particular tractor. End pins - see attachment. No idea which type you have but both types are shown. Note that it's not grease you put in there but an 80W/90 gear oil. That is unless the seals have failed when it is acceptable to grease it until the seal is fixed.
I bet you could run the entire technical department at cat. You locate and research better than all of them. Maybe you can take the pay for 2-3 people and the dealer can save labor on the rest ha.
The kind of problems you are listing might only have been caught with Xray eyes. That's part of the problem with looking at old stuff. In many cases you just have to know that kind of stuff is going on inside by its age and type of use. You have to be a Sherlock Holmes by using base knowledge of what the machine was originally and what it is now. The odd wear pattern on the undercarriage would have lead to a closer inspection there. Slop in that equalizer bar would have been an easy find. A light out on the dash panel when the key was turned on might have made for a closer look there. Checking the pivot shaft reservoir was always a must on my inspections. Opening the engine panels and having a look around is a must. For a lot of years I didn't recommend oil samples. The new stuff pretty much requires it for the engines as crankcase vapors stay in the engines and dirty oils don't just flush out anymore with a oil change. The other thing to keep in mind about mechanics is that we are there to repair broken stuff. Most of us don't actively look for more work to add to the already overloaded schedule.
I see this as a far bigger problem than worn out tracks . Is there any way the 40% figure could be wrong ? If its so and its be happening over several services the motor could well be damaged by now . Are you able to establish when the oil was last changed , if recently there has been a large oil leak or burn if the if the stick was not reading a long way overfull .
Mine doesn't have that on the left fender, just batteries. Mine is 7xm00754. Looking for pivot shaft oil.
Has someone removed it in the past I wonder.? Try looking for the hoses. The tank is quite thin and should be located between the batteries and the front wall of the compartment
Here's an illustration from a different type of D8R (not your S/N) showing the tank apparently next to either the hydraulic or fuel tank. it's hard to make out which.
I don't ever recall looking at an 8R that didn't have that tank and it was always mounted as in the photos above. It is a must inspect when I was working at the Cat house.
Sounds like we’re gonna be adding another 30K to the price tag if he doesn’t get this 40% fuel dilution figured out. That’s way north of engine damage if it’s had much run time. I can’t imagine it would have any oil pressure if it had that much fuel in it.
My original estimate was North of $70k for the undercarriage alone. The final bill could easily be 6 figures - ouch...
Bone dry. You know I paid cat thousands of dollars 3 different times to come out and do a full maintenance on the machine.. changing and filling all oils.. and at each appointment I asked them to do a complete walk around and show me all my maintenance points and not once did they ever touch this box and in fact once told me they take grease and if there's no zerk fitting then it doesn't take anything. Very upset with cat. There are two reservoirs.. should both be full? Thank you
Hi Robert. The tank on the left is your pivot shaft oil resevoir. The tank on the right is simply your window washer resevoir.It’s the least of your issues at the moment. The dipstick is part of the cap that you see in the pic. I think 50w final oil will be ok. I suspect yours is empty.
I thought it was washer fluid but didn't want to guess. I just got 80w like a post before said. Is that correct?
Should be fine. Open those plugs under the sprockets to allow it to fill and purge the air out. You may get lucky and it not run out the the pivot shaft seals
If it does run out of the seals then you just added around $10k to your undercarriage overhaul. Forgive me for being frank but you’ve been your own worst enemy. You were advised to get hold of a maintenance manual and did, but then you apparently did nothing with it. Don’t put all the blame on the dealer.
I'll have to disagree with that. The dealer is supposed to be the experts on the machine operation, maintenance and repair. I would certainly be on the phone with the service department after you checked out if anything is in the tank and in the pivot shaft cavities wanting to know how they were going work with me on any repairs that were necessary. Perhaps you could pull up the daily, 250 and 500 hour service listings and see what is recommended. All the Cat dealers advertise how they can keep you running with their "world class service." I don't expect owners to be experts in all the facets of their machinery. I do expect dealer service personnel to at the least be able to read their own literature and perform to minimum standards.
We'll just have to disagree then. The OP has an O&M Manual that he admits he never read. He already ought to know what the PM schedule is. Pivot shaft oil level check is every 10 hours or daily. Neither do I, but I at least expect them to take a bit more than a passing interest on a machine this size.
Sometimes people who have 5 kids and run 7 jobs at a time personally to the point they get home and pass out resulting in them not even being able to see their own kids in their house don't have time to read a maintenance book and should be able to rely on the professionals who make the equipment to know what they're even doing. When you pay 2k+ for cat to do a full service several times and cat themself skips the pivot shaft oil every time, who's fault is that? If they tell a customer there is nothing else to maintain I'm supposed to argue and look for more? I do appreciate the help though and do understand how once you know machinery like you do, it seems like a no brainer. I was following cats expert advice.
I've asked all 3 dealers within 60 miles for an undercarriage inspection, all said they're too busy and don't have anyone to send. I even told them I'm buying the track from them they said great give us your money but we can't come out and see what else you need.
Wanted to give an update. I ordered 4 links, 2 pins 2 bushings for the patch job while I order new track groups. Cat sent 2 links to me and accidentally lost the other two. They said they haven't been able to find where they sent them since last Monday. Also, this isn't my first repair on the tracks so I told them to please order me what I ordered before for pins and bushings. They located my order and got me the parts. They sent the wrong pins that don't have the clamps on the end to hold the pin in place and it's missing the rubber boot to hold oil in. Since it was my second time paying for a tech to come out I said just do what you can. So thanks to cat professionals, I am running again with 2 dry pins that don't have clamps to hold them in and are going to get dirt inside them. Cat said they do not know when they will get the new track groups I'm ordering in. They said they won't have an update on arrival until a week or two after I pay. I'm about to go purge the oil for the pivot shaft. I put oil in so far no leaks but probably because I didn't purge. For the equalizer bar, I'm confused if it's supposed to move or not when you raise the front end of the machine. Other than that the machine is running strong. Today I'm also taking the valve cover off to look for the fuel leak in the lines. Cat said take the cover off and run the engine looking for fuel. IS THIS APPROPRIATE? Seems I can't trust Cat. I'm also replacing the exhaust gasket as it has a slight leak that developed a couple weeks ago. I'm thinking about measuring the valves if that's possible. Anyone have any other opinions on something else I can inspect while I have the exhaust manifold and valve cover off? The turbo is good, has a little tiny wobble but not bad, no oil or anything. Very clean. Soon I'll be doing a full replacement of all wear parts on the trans and torque.
It’s certainly worth measuring the valve lash. I had a D8R with a slight flutter that was hardly noticeable.I’d spotted a little black soot mark behind the manifold and assumed the manifold gasket was causing the slight fart.I was wrong…….valve lash was well out and camshaft worn out.The machine was working fine apart from that flutter and I was fair shocked to be told cam was worn out allowing the cam followers to act up.
I feel sorry for your predicament as it’s one I understand well.However,I’ve also reluctantly come to the conclusion that many of our Cat dealer chaps are pretty inexperienced and hopeless at their jobs,and I share many others opinion in not trusting them.I receantly had one of their Undercarriage specialists ask me if my D9 was system one?.The same chap then quoted 60/90 days for a complete undercarriage (minus any bottom rollers whatsoever!!).Two weeks later,another dealer rep found a complete D9 undercarriage that was available in 2 weeks and £20,000 less than originally quoted by them.All this leaves me with zero confidence in Caterpillar and it’s dealerships. I should say,that this problem is totally pandemic across all machinery manufacturers and there are still many great individuals that do know what they’re talking about. Yes,I would expect your dealer to have pointed out where the maintenance points are on your D8 20 years ago,but not these days.I’d expect them to neither know or care where your pivot shaft oil resevoir is and it’s a fact that you and the rest of us will come to expect. I’ve owned my own equipment for over 30 years including over 10x D8’s.During that time,I’ve relied on the support from the Cat dealers and their staff.They were second to nobody with their knowledge and attitude to help me.I never owned one service manual or operators manual in 25 years of those 30 as I only needed to ask for help,and they’d give it to me.The writing was on the wall though and I bought my first operators manual for a D8 around 2016.They are basic,yet offer you a wealth of information and really opened up my eyes on how to run my equipment,and I realised I’d been doing certain things wrong over the years. These days,I swear by them and try to follow them best I can. I don’t trust the dealer staff to look after my interests anymore,I guess after this issue with your D8R,neither will you.
Robert. Is this you with 5 kids and 7 jobs? Maybe Hyperbole, I get it. You need to slow down. This may or may not relate to your situation but I think it might be part of the problem. You mentioned that you forget to eat sometimes. You need to eat to think clearly. Your starving your brain. For many years I was always in a rush to get to the next job, thing, whatever I felt needed to get done without first completing what was right in front of me. Things tended to pile up internally always bugging me without realizing there was anything wrong. Some good friends constantly pointed this out to me but I couldn't grasp it for several years. I'm just starting to get it now. Again.....slow down. Take care to eat properly. If you are not already, start eating organic. Drink clean filtered water. There is lots can be said but I'll stop here for now on the personal stuff. On the dozer..... You say the salesman who sold you the machine claimed it needed nothing major in regards to repairs? Was anything put down in writing or just verbal. Was the machine a consignment or trade-in. Did it go through the dealer shop at all. Any records of any sort? I have to agree with both Nige and John. They are both right from what I see here. I would take this entire thread and sit down with the Cat salesman and the manager and respectfully ask many of the pertinent questions that have been brought up here at HEF. Humble yourself. At the end of the day you have to take responsibility for this. " Your the man". I would hope the dealer will work with you and help cover some of the cost. It's really up to the Lord either way.
Robert, they are correct on checking the fuel lines for leakage under the valve cover as this is a 3406C engine. I would be looking for leaks in this area: If you can’t find anything leaking there, could always be the transfer pump on the injection pump.
I agree with nicky68a but have to say that Caterpillar "REQUIRES" their dealers to run training programs that all their service staff attends every year. There is apparently a problem there that needs to be illuminated and addressed at mid management level or higher. I would suggest a conversation with the branch service manager and working up until you reach someone who can actually do something about it. Corporate service managers usually do something and if not you can contact that Cat service rep for that dealer area. Having plenty of experience in these types of issues, problems swept under the rug continue to happen. Most of the time they aren't addressed until either lots of noise is made and/or it costs someone else some money. If it was missed on your machine, it was missed on everybody else's machine as well. Good Luck!
I had a similar experience with our Cat dealer in Latvia Avesco. Dozer had a problem with power loss and some errors that needed to be read. I contacted the dealer to arrive and make a diagnosis. Arrived, read the errors carelessly, said that the injectors were probably to blame for the loss of power. However, they did not want to check it themselves and gave incorrect instructions on how to do it. In the end, the right information came from this forum- Nige. Then the maintenance information was not accurate either and I did not do some important things during the maintenance. Here, again Nige came to the rescue with instructions. In the end, I realized that our dealer doesn't care about long-term cooperation, the main thing is to get some money at the end of the day. I would be willing to entrust all this work to professionals, but they are not, so I am forced to do it myself, although I simply do not have time.
Exactly , motor may not last long enough to wear the paint off a new set of tracks
John C, In my most humbled opinion, dealerships and companies across the board have all fallen to the same problem of what I call “corporatism” meaning that they think every person in their company can be developed and trained if you just give them enough time and classes. Though I have not been in this business as long as many of you all, I have been around long enough to see the problem. The issue is, customer satisfaction with the dealer is steadily going down. As it applies to this thread, when the “big white truck” shows up, they expect the guy to know what he’s doing when his boots hit the ground. When I started in the heavy equipment business, the “old guys” hadn’t yet retired. I worked with them for a couple months in the beginning and saw first hand how they handled it when someone called for assistance without first covering their bases. When I had something I was struggling with (still applies today) I damn sure didn’t call someone for help until I could recite the systems operation and knew every electrical check I should have done and every pressure check that should be done. I would literally drown them with data. Basically, I have the skills, knowledge and ability to develop myself. That’s exactly what it takes in this or any other business. No one can or should rely on a company to “make” them who they are. That’s where companies are missing the boat, all they can do is provide employees with the opportunity to be great. Unfortunately, few have the desire or the skills to take advantage of it. A guy I used to work with, who’s actually younger than me BTW, said “In this business, you can be stupid or you can be lazy, but you can’t be both” if someone could kindly set this train back on the tracks, we can resume this undercarriage discussion.
I don't think the machine is worth putting a cent into the tracks without assessing the whole tractor . The dozer could so easy end up costing well over 100,000 to get it working properly
You all are forgetting the income and replacement values of the machine in your off the cuff considerations. Average retail asking on any D8R right now is $148K and change. Average auction is $67K and change. Rental costs for a D8T are going to be over $10K a month. Just from those three dollar figures it would appear that another tractor of similar age and hours is going to cost at least as much as the repairs needed on this machine, Any of those will likely need similar repairs. The OP I'm sure knows the amount of the income he expects to get out of the tractor. He came here looking for background info only. The decision on what to do going forward is his alone.
Every job I do with this machine brings 40-80. I have 7 jobs lined up.
Yes I have the same experience. Cat doesn't know what the hell they're doing. I couldn't even get the right parts when I ordered the same as I ordered before. Now I gotta show they already charged me because they want to charge again. They sent half the parts to a wrong dealer and couldn't find them.. they said they'd refund all the shipping costs for the mistake.. I just got a call after 3 weeks asking when I'm gonna get my parts I ordered... After reminding them what the situation was and they're supposed to refund, they said oh yeah that part is still lost and that's when they said they want to charge me again. Nige, unfortunately the days of cat caring about customers or know what they're doing is over. You are the great hope for so many now. My opinion.
Thank you for this. Yes, it's difficult to slow down with the mortgage but I agree with you I need to. I was forced to take sat and Sunday off this weekend. It was nice. I plan to sit with them and see what can be done.
Maybe for Caterpillar , if a Komatsu dealership acted like I've been reading they would lose their dealership . Mistakes happen with any brand or business but their is a pattern with Caterpillar and I know of a few horror stories local .
There is a risk with this tractor that its not going to be able to do them without major issues .
I've had it since 2019. Replaced one final drive, implementation pump, patched same left chain twice now. Over time with oil changes the trans has cleaned out from all the rubber and such from first gear wear plates. Doing the mechanic work myself helps a lot with cost. About to do engine exhaust manifold gasket and investigate fuel in engine. Been putting this thing back together again a while. I know her dirty secrets. A new machine will carry unknowns. Now I know about the pivot and others, I kept asking cat because it seemed weird not to have maintenance. Should have checked online book but trusted cat. I should learn by now with other stuff, don't trust. It's a good machine. Next thing that breaks I'll repair. Eventually it will be new.. ha!
Yes the first machine I wanted to buy was cat excavator. They pushed me away from that by not knowing their product and also being non responsive. I contacted komatsu and got the smart excavator with auto assist. Thank you cat for that one.
Some companies get so big they forget how or why they got there. Cat is no different. Once the customer service goes downhill opens the door for the competition. Lincoln Electric has always had a kind of arrogance towards other brands, they instill it in their sales reps. They generally make a good product but opened the door wide open for Miller to be right up there maybe even bigger. Lincoln was very reluctant to get into Mig welders and were very late to the party. They lost countless sales because of it. They pretty much had to get with the program. Reading about all the problems with a new Cat 150 grader should be enough to convince most customers to at least consider other brands. It was in N America not somewhere in the middle of nowhere with very few dealers.
I see that you are in Oceanside. Is your dealer Johnson, Quinn, Hawthorne or other? It's been a while since I've lived/done work in SoCal and I know that there have been some changes and acquisitions since I left there over 20 years ago. That being said, Quinn was my dealer back in those days and they set the bar pretty high back then. Even still, there were some instances when I had to "call them on their ****", and when I did, they responded and made things right. Certainly you should go higher up the chain to discuss your issues. You might be surprised at what may come of this before you just write them off as not giving a poop. I have also seen the personnel, and corporate issues that are being mentioned here. That being said I still believe that if you go up the chain high enough you will get some assistance. Furthermore, we all ultimately have to take responsibility for our own situation/s. Per what he is saying the OP has likely bit off more than he can chew (as it relates to the machine, and his workload) and this is something that many of us (especially those of us who own our own businesses) have to learn about....Sometimes the hard way. Many of us have done so and, thankfully, many of us have learned immensely from this. That being said I feel that both parties (the OP and the dealership) have some responsibility here if the scenario is being told accurately. As you are now attending the school of hard knocks, you have seen the value of good support. If you can't find the support you need from CAT (which in my experience with more than one dealer, in more than one state, and also experiencing a decline as has been mentioned here, still feel they are top of the class) then maybe unloading this particular D8, and switching brands might be the way to go. As it relates to spending the money on this machine, I think that there is wisdom in seeing this one through the repair (as John C, and the OP have eluded to). At least it will then be a mostly known commodity. To the OP: I feel you and all your struggles. I am routing for you. I hope that the engine does not become another trouble spot for you and that you can get the fuel leakage issue taken care of, inexpensively and with out finding any further damage. As it relates to the original query this thread has gone a little bit off the rails (pun intended ). Is there anything else the OP needs to know about which way to go with regard to purchasing aftermarket or OEM? I think it was Nick that suggested that CAT U/C was the highest cost per hour. Is this true? If so, which is the least cost per hour? In my experience I have found that the CAT parts usually cost more but work out to be a lesser cost per hour due to the extended life span. I don't have any dozer U/C replacement experience so I would love to see where a discussion about this would go.
You shouldn't have to go up the chain to get proper service. A good dealer should do it for you if need be. It makes me think of the dreaded D6C thread where Cat actually did make it right but was a long painfully slow process to get there. The dealer made a lot of mistakes and wasn't taking any responsibility for them. The owner made mistakes too but was relying on the dealer. If the dealers don't know the machines they sell perhaps they should spend the required time learning them inside out, especially maintainence wise.
I fully agree with you...And if one is not getting those results, going up the chain is the next course of action, and certainly better than just resigning to the situation. What about these questions? I think they would go a long way in serving the OP and HEF in general.