Operator started our old D9H this morning and as it was around 25ºF was going to exercise the hydraulics. It was just running at a very slightly elevated idle. I was standing next to the left track frame and heard a pop and a four inch square of cast iron landed on the track. I'm thinking there maybe some problem! See picture:
wow.
Ka Pow, I bet I know what was top conversation at coffee break. That rod looks pretty clean. Wow.
Looks like you're in the market for a D353 cylinder block sans hole ....... plus a few other assorted bits & pieces.
You got one you could send me next day air? Now they are talking about moving the D10N here it's now just a half hour away by car, not sure if it will move that fast! Remember I had been told the transmision was bad and that's why the last plant wanted to unload it? Well story I heard this morning is they had local dealer work on it and mechanic found a cracked suction pipe for trans pump!
Yea and the operator who was starting it was his first day back from winter lay-off. I think he wish he had stayed out one more day!
I wish I could rebuild that one, wondering where it failed first, ice in pan, on top of piston? Piston siezed on last shutdown? Feel bad for the operator,
How long was it running after startup before it let go?
I have seen that same kind of block damage in a D-9G. It was a hole about the same size. The piece was re attached with epoxy and the machine ran for long time afterwards.
If that's the only block damage, it only has to hold crankcase pressure,
Looks like a con rod sticking out of the side, epoxy might not fix it
There is also a bit of a bulge on the other side of crankcase! It had been started and ran for maybe a couple minutes before and operator shut it down when boss wanted to ask a question. Then when he tried to restart batteries were a little weak from the glow plugs and cranking the first time so a charger was hooked up for about 20 minutes. Then cranked it up the second time and it only ran maybe 10-15 seconds then pop goes the Cat.
Boss ( what is that knocking sound?). Operator ( what sound?). Sometimes things sound totally different from a far. These days a precup engines is a foreign sound to most, we can all joke and make coments, but that hurts a company's profit margins early on in the preseason.
The kinds of problems I've seen cause that are stretched rod cap bolts that suddenly fail. Looked at a Komatsu loader a month or so ago with the same type of ventilation. Didn't have to worry about cleaning out the breather cap any more.
kshansen, that is the standard CAT War Wound, I have rebuilt engines with 3 of those window's stuffed in like that and posted pictures, some place in the CAT service tech is a sheet on how to sort this drama, it does not involve a new block just a bit of time to stitch in a repair plate also a bit of welding, the down side is its a big block to tip about, if it was my D9 to sort I would stitch it up unless there was a spare engine on the workshop floor, I would not be hunting out a replacement engine, although a pal of mine has 1 in stock that would be low coins to me??? its only metal. tctractors
I would love to have at this one but management wants to just run out and buy a good running used engine. I have four different outfits looking and as of tonight no one has found one. Management sometimes thinks there are just piles of engines sitting around to be picked up for a couple hundred dollars! I'm guessing getting the one from your pal to me this side of the pond might cost more than the engine. Also as my retirement date is 4/23/15 and no one working with me to take over after that between my normal day to day emergencies routine maintenance work don't think I have the spare time to do this one justice. I've got a like new 4-71 Detroit sitting in the shop, think that would be good fit in a D9?
4-71 would be a great pony motor! LOL Actually ocean freight in a container is cheap, but all the paperwork costs money.. Probably run a grand or so, all in.
Try Portland Tractor.
A good D353 engine in the U.K. would be lucky to find for £6' large, plus there is a bit of work sorting out the Flywheel end chunks then all the unbolting and bolting up of things, D9 G or H series tractors love blocking up the coolers and anyone that has run them knows they need a yearly strip service on the coolers, I would strip off the heads,pistons, liners, and get the crank out and have a go at window fitting and welding up the usual bottom liner area on the block, its not a big job look at the size of the hole? honestly the hole shape is the standard size and pattern that fires out with the rod, the 9 motor is 1 of the first engines with back gears, this back gear style design is now very common even Scania use it on their engines. tctractors
I have worked with companies that would strip out coolers on 8 and 9 engines once a year even if they only clock up low hours.As for the hole in block,providing cracks aren't traveling, I would give it the band aid treatment.
Only ever seen them go at front or back in my experience. Not seen 3 or 4 go????
you don't need computer to find the problem
I tried hooking up Cat ET but was having a problem locating the plug!
Cmark, Thanks for the suggestion. I did email them last night and when I got to work had a reply. But no engines at this time. Nice to at least get a reply, some don't do that much!
There have been a number of D353 crate engines sell on Gov't Liquidation recently.....but I doubt you'd like the price. They went in the neighborhood of $25-30K
I would not mind the price but bosses might faint 20+years ago had a boss who felt $1,000 per cylinder for a major over haul on engines a bit smaller than a D353 was normal. There are some very unrealistic people in management (or what passes as management) in this company these days. That is one of the main reasons I decided last spring that April 2015 is my last time with them. 44 years and the last 15-20 have been a downward spiral.
Be thankfull for that employment time with 1 company,there is no way your grand-kids are going to get a deal like that.
Well in a way it was one company, same location. However with mergers and buyouts it's been around six different companies! Each one worse in someways than the last. Back in the beginning the top person in management would visit at least once a year and either knew you or who your father was! Now days get even one management step from the local plant manager and you almost never see him and if you do he has no idea of who you are or what you are capable of doing.
Well as we have not found a replacement engine for the first D9H last Thursday they shipped us a second one. Got the blade put on late Thursday and went home for weekend, we work 4-10's. Well come in this morning and walk by the "NEW" D9H and see a large puddle of oil under it! Check fluids and find nothing showing on the trans. dipstick and right final drive so low you could not touch the oil with your finger. Boss talked with his boss who had it shipped from another plant and was told they had tightened up some bolts on the top of transmission before shipping it. Crossed fingers and hoped that the oil was just some that leaked out of the oil pan as snow melted. Took about 15 gallons oil in the transmission and 5 gallons in the final. Operator ran it out to the fuel pump and topped off the tank. Then traveled up to the stripping area and made two passes, maybe 100 feet each. By this time it was 9:00 break time and stopped to take a look at the machine, loader operator drove up and said, "Better head to the shop, a puddle is forming under the dozer!" Pulled dozer into the shop and as soon as it stopped there was about a 1/4 inch stream of oil coming out of the rear belly pan under the front of the bevel gear housing. I slid under the machine and looked up to see a 5/8 inch bolt hanging out of one of the lower transmission mounting hole that hold it in bevel gear housing! Touched the bolt and it fell right out and now a 5/8 inch stream of oil came out! Long story a bit shorter, bolt that fell out was replacing a missing stud, one other stud next to it was broke off, the next one in line started to break when I tried to tighten it. All the other stud nuts were so loose that a short 3/8 inch ratchet took only a light touch with your pinky finger to turn about 1/2 turn! I know the "RIGHT" way to fix this would be to remove the transmission and replace all studs and reseal the mounting area, but "WE NEED IT NOW!" So /we managed to get the 9 not broke studs to tighten up good. In the morning will be trying to remove the broken stud and replace with new studs and nuts. Told my boss it was still going to leak but might be able to finish the stripping project. OH! by the way when we dropped the belly pans to access the lower studs and nuts one of the two 1 1/8 bolts that hold the lower cap on the equalizer pin fell out leaving a broken stub in that hole! One more to drill out. Also noticed that the belly pan under the engine has no bolts holding it on, just setting on the lip of I believe the radiator or front mount support. Hardware is ordered for that too! This is more or less the normal kind of problems we see with anything that comes from this other plant that upper management in the state thinks is the best plant around and we were told when one of the guys in management got his present job he was going to get "US" up to speed like this plant!
Bitter sweet but I bet 4/23/15 is looking a even better. Wonder if you would be open for what they offered my uncle. Uncle in the USCG and set his retirement date, told higher ups there is no one to take over (load master for Helicopters). Two days before his retirement he was asked if he could train someone, he said no. So they asked him if he would train someone as a contractor for 3 times his salary for 2 years, he said yes. Two years later he left and they just brought in someone else 4 months before he left
It could be tempting, but would need to see about three levels of management changed before I would want to stay on at all! I'm sure it would be the same thing for me as your uncle, "Stay on to train new guy, then new guy never seems to show up or if he does they don't pay him or her enough to get them to stay."
Well today was not the worst, managed to drill and use easyouts to get the broken stud and broken bolt out and buttoned everything up and had it out playing in the dirt by 11:00am. Worked right up to 3:30 pm with no new problems.
Kshansen,my eyebrows are rising up a fair bit as I read this.Loose bolts in tranny mounting suggests(as you already have stated) that things are far from good in the back end and torque.if that's all spinning out of line.......that tractor will be getting broke for spares to feed the other one pretty soon.Will have to try and make one good one out of two soon. Perhaps your replacement will inherit the job of sorting that mess out.Let's hope it all holds out until you retire!
Well It seems to have made it two and a half days! Now if the trackadjuster on the right side of the D6D had not failed a couple hours before quitting time on Thursday thins would look better for Monday morning!
I don't have much experience with this issue but we came to the same conclusion when we discovered the tranny was loose on a 77V 8K. Studs were so loose they damaged the threads in the bevel gear case. We suspect it was because someone installed a rebuilt transmission and paid no attention to it's relation to the cross shaft. Sounds like you've been there before.
The movement of the transmission broke two studs and in a way made getting the one that was broke off that was still in there easy to get out as it was loose in the threads of the bevel gear housing. Like I said the "PROPER" way to fix this would be to remove the transmission, remove all studs, clean mating surfaces, install all new studs and nuts with red lock tight and reassemble torquing all fasteners to proper tightness. I can guarantee that will never happen! The plant this unit came from is considered by upper management to be the model for how a quarry should be run! A good example of another machine the "take care of" is their Komatsu WA600, when parked over night they slide drain pans under it to catch the oil leaking out! We have the mate to that WA600, same age, the only leak on ours is a little dampness at the rod of the tilt cylinder that I am trying to get my boss to address, we have a line bore job scheduled for a pin it is hooked to so he says we will do it at that time. There are few damp spots like pan gasket and front cover on the engine but for a 1996 machine with 25,000 hours of quarry work on it that has never had engine, transmission, finals or brakes rebuilt it's not doing to bad. Engine did get a valve job a couple years ago when it broke a valve spring, can not believe it did not hurt the piston!
Funny how upset some bean counters get when they add up annual repairs on a piece of equipment but they don't even blink when it comes to spending $1M on a new one. Something they'll be doing more of after you retire. If that transmission comes loose before you retire, I'd like to hear about it. Kind of curious how many hours it will go.
Another thing that the working group leader here was complaining about just last week. Upper management was asking what should be done to reduce downtime by 40%, not sure why they pick that number, on the primary section of the plant. He said all they need to do is take time to fix some of the problems he had been telling them about for a couple years! Like the skirting on a feeder that was worn away and letting material fall on drive belts. The belts can only last a couple weeks then they fail. If they let him spend the time to fix skirting belts might last a couple years. But no, can't work overtime or shut down production to fix the skirting. Plant has been down for winter shut down since early December and probably won't be started till middle of April. All the guys who could be fixing the problems are sitting home collecting unemployment checks. Can't spend money on repairs when sales are low in winter, can't stop production when sales are good in summer as we need the stone!:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead:Banghead
Chuck,I haven't personally had that problem of loose trannies as they have been nipped in the bud.I have witnessed D8K and D9H series tractors that have been 'left to develope' and it's a disaster. Last winter I had a D8H that an engine mounting became loose.TC advised me to bring it in sooner rather than later,so that's what I did.He went through it from flywheel to top pinions and it cost what it cost.Simple as that.If it had been ignored it may well have led to eventual demise of a nice old D8
That seems to be the problem with larger companies. They first want three quotes and then need to spend hours in meetings deciding on who they are going to blame and who will pay the bill for the repairs. Then more meetings to decide when or if it will be repaired. All the while if machine is still able to limp along and do any work it is still out there trying to work. Then by the time the decision is finally made to go ahead with repairs it may be too late and machine is either scraped or sent to auction.
kshansen, I looked for a D9G engine a year or so ago. I found a few complete d353 engines but nothing from a D9. The customer decided to purchase a marine generator d353 engine for pretty cheap then asked how much it would cost to get it in to the dozer. After looking at the engine and a bit at the parts books for both I discovered he had really only purchased a block and heads everything else is different. I told him it would cost more than $20,000 less than $30,000. Hmmmm never heard from him again..........TIO
We bought an 8K. Found the tranny to be loose when we pulled the engine. The bevel gear case wouldn't hold studs. We ended up gutting the bevel gear case and starting over. Went all the way to the grill. I didn't know about this forum at the time or I would have asked Tony what to do about the loose studs. My solution was a little over the top but that transmission will never come loose as long as the bevel gear is shimmed correctly. Yes, it costs what it costs. Still cheaper to keep her when the repair is done correctly. The H and K may be a little slower than the new stuff but when they're parked, you're not paying the bank for the privilege of moving dirt.
40% is the amount of $$$ they want to take away from you and spend on something else. Maybe their bonus??? I hope your pension isn't invested in company stock. You just can't fix people like this. No experience doing what they ask others to do. Investing money in unemployment won't save them unless it's upper management they're laying off.
Well this is an old thread that I thought I'd add a follow up to as last night I had a chance to talk to the guy who replaced me after I retired back in April of 2015! If you were to scroll back to the first post from 3/2/15 yep over a year ago! You will see the rod hanging out the side of this D9. After dragging their feet for many months late last fall they decided it was time to do something with this dozer. Someone located a "good used" engine and I guess they had Santa do the shipping because it arrived some time in middle to late December. Not sure of all the details but was told there were some things that they had to change to adapt it to our dozer, one being the exhaust manifold. They did bring in an outside contractor mechanic to work with my replacement all told it took something like five days to get things togeather, not sure but think the old engine may have been pulled before the replacement was found. Guy says it does have a couple, I guess minor, leaks but does run good. However he said it does use around a gallon of oil a 8-10 hour day. Not sure if that is really too bad for a big old engine. So after sitting unused for close to a year an old D9 is back doing what it was built to do so I'm glad it did not end up being made into a Komatsu! Or one of those China made clones!
A good ending for it. I say that's not very much oil for the D353 in a day, especially if it leaks 10-15% of that. Maybe the other company quarries won't destroy it now.
I just read the whole thread Ken,all good stuff.Ron G
I forgot to mention the story I heard was they paid $20,000.00 for this used engine. Not sure if that is a good price or not but at least it gets the old machine back doing what it was built to do again. Besides my pension is locked in so it's no money out of my pocket!
$20,000.00 ????????????? In South Africa you can buy a good running D9H for that money.
Seems back when the engine had just failed I did some looking online and did see some complete machines for not much more than that. But the way management "thinks" they could not buy a complete machine as that would have to go in one column of some spreadsheet and would not be authorized but buying just an engine would be entered in a different column on the spreadsheet and slip through with no problems. It's like the time I tried to buy a pump from a outfit that deals in buying excess inventory from dealers. Cat wanted $1,000.00 and this vendor was asking $500.00 for a new in box genuine Cat pump. I was told something like they could make more money buying the $1,000 pump as they were on a 90 day payment program with Cat but this vendor wanted cash or credit card payment up front.