1992 580k 4WD, extendahoe, cab, 7587 on the hour meter. Owner is retiring and has had it for 20 years, when he bought it he says he put a new motor in it so it has about 4000 hours on the motor. He says it is work ready but needs a new exhaust pipe, one outrigger is leaking, and the front bucket is welded but works fine. He's asking $17,900 but said he would come down a little. I'm thinking I'll offer $15,000. I'm going to look at it at 4pm today. https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/hvo/5510851373.html Normally, I don't like engine swaps but he's had this hoe for a long time. What do you guys think?
That's on the high side but it does look good. IMHO regarding equipment this age, the three most important factors in price are condition, condition, condition. There's a floor that a running machine will bring, lets say $5k, and it doesn't take very many repairs at all to get from that floor, to an amount that you could have bought a better one for like $15k. The old/new motor doesn't bother me much, it's not like he put a "new" motor in it and sent it to the auction. Run it for an hour and then see what you think.
Thanks! Taking him at his word, what do you think is a fair price?
Hopefully somebody else will chime in quickly. You don't have to trust him all that much, hopefully it hasn't been recently pressure washed so you can see there hasn't been recent work done on it, or recent fatal diagnosis made. If it's in very good original condition (aside from the replaced engine, no cracks or welds anywhere, original paint in decent shape, virtually no rust, everything functioning like new, acceptable pins and bushings) it could sell fairly fast for the asking price. That's on the high side FOR CRAIGSLIST, but you don't see them that clean very often. You couldn't touch that for 15 at a dealer, and if you buy it at an auction you can't try it out enough.
OK, just looked at it. Seems to be in good working order. 2 things: 1. There is a weld on one of the mounts where the front bucket arms connect to the boss(?). He said it was repaired 20 years ago. How big of a deal is that? 2. There seemed to be a little looseness in the shift linkage. Is that normal? Please let me know as soon as possible!
That looks like it had a quick coupler front bucket so is the bucket cracked or the coupler?
It was welded around the loader arm pivot point. The main one closest to the cab. The arm itself wasn't welded. It was welded around the hole in the cab side. Sorry, not a lot of experience here.
in phoenix 2wd hoes that age are going for $19k https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/hvo/5520096898.html 4wd same kinda deal https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/hvo/5452281421.html point being that's a common price for that machine out here. which is crazy if you have to start fixing broke stuff as well...
Good to know. I'm only going to keep it for a few months and then sell it. I'm in that weird place where renting is too expensive. So, short term ownership it is.
It sounds like the first owner for four years beat the crap out of it to wreck an engine and crack the loader mount boss in like 3k hours. And it's been mostly? taken care of since. One weld that's held up a long time doesn't bother me. The shift linkage looseness doesn't bother me either, it's not a BMW, the linkages have a certain feel even new. The main things I'd be looking at is if the transmission shifts smooth in all gears, doesn't slip more than expected, sounds good etc. And the play in the pins and bushings, lift the loader up and hang the bucket at it's "loosest" so it flops back and forth easily then get out, and STANDING TO THE SIDE slam the bucket forward and back to see how much play there is in the main bucket pins and the tilt pins. Extend the backhoe straight out back a foot off the ground and nudge it back and forth, see how much it slops each way to see if you can live with that amount of play, or if you'll be doing pins and bushings eventually. edit: just saw you're buying it short term, that looks like a clean backhoe and cheap enough to not to risk losing too much. It's a good balance between too new that will depreciate more and too old that will bite you with repairs.
:exactly
I have, and love a 580K I bought ten years ago for $17000 Mine has Joy sticks, cab, Ehoe, & thumb. It had 2900 hours when I bought. The hours is a concern, but maintenance is the whole enchilada. In my case the machine has accumulated a lot of hours as it is a welding positioner. I chain a weldment to the bucket & turn it for convenient angle. The tractor idles a lot. As a loader it can't be beat with 4 wheel drive. Two wheel drive models stink as loaders unless you load processed materials off a concrete floor. As a backhoe, the e hoe is terribly jumpy. Open center hydraulics are not the best system for multi function at once. You always need to boom, crowd, and curl simultaneously. With open center, you must feather two valves to get oil to the third valve. Finish travel with one function, the others speed up. This is a particular problem with swing. Stop moving your crowd, smash your truck. You'll get used to it, but the learning curve is slower than a John Deere, or any machine with pilot controls.
Thanks guys! I bought it! $16,500. He's delivering it for 100 bucks. The story on the engine is it spent it's first few years with a rotary broom on the front. He said the dust ruined the engine. I guess they didn't change the air filter? He bought it from a friend and then the engine died. Didn't sound like they were friends after that. :eek2 He had a new (not rebuilt) engine put in by a shop. It runs well. No smoke or blow by.
This was my thinking, too. Someone might actually want this thing when I'm done.
I'd call that a decent deal from the little I know. Don't let Willie bother you, he stole his at that price, age and condition.
congrats! strong machine + enclosed cab = extra points
If I loose a couple grand that is fine. I would have spent way more than that renting or paying someone to do the work. Plus, I get to play which is half the reason I'm doing it!
Not seeing the boom weld I won't comment. The shift linkage is awkward, offers poor mechanical advantage, and when forced, will bugger, or break. I have two sons, and two more I think hang around me cause they like my toys. One is spooky how often he breaks things 'cause he doesn't know his own strength. It isn't in mesh, won't go into gear, it wouldn't occur to him to let it move an inch to align gears. He would force it. I've had to remove floor, and fix shift linkage because of this.
You haven't said, the link wouldn't work. Is it 4 wheel drive?
Yes it is 4WD enclosed cab.
I might just take the floor up and see if I can tighten it up. Bushings I assume?
How often do you change gears in a backhoe ? Mine only comes out of 2nd for roading or very steep hills.
Congrats on finding a great machine I really love my 1987 case 580 K. Mine had about the same number of hours when I bought it and it's been good I've had to replace hoses here and there but I really like what it does for me.
Like the others I think you'll certainly be happy with the use you'll get out of your hoe and have no trouble selling it once it's served your purpose. I did the same thing 30 years ago but after selling it bought another now 4 hoes later I'm making a living with one.
Also please post pictures when you get her home - the craigslist ad has been taken down since it was sold
I kind of afraid that will happen!
Will do! It's being delivered Wednesday. :thumbsup
4000 hrs is low for this machine . Even if it has had the crap beaten out of it . A new motor , sorry no way . Ma be at 7000 hrs . And Delmer your right it is not a BMW . Its better .
It was used with a rotary sweep for the first 3000 hours. I guess the dust destroyed the engine.
Well, poop. I got a text from the seller this morning that he forgot to mention it doesn't hold fuel. The tank is cracked. I guess he's going to get it repaired and wants me to pay half because I'm getting a good deal on the hoe. I said I would be open to that if it wasn't too much. At least to was honest about it.
My opinion...i would say he either fixes it or take $ off the bill and you contract the work out instead. Seller is not doing you any favors. kinda hard to forget that... just sayin I wish i would have given my seller a hard time about my 3point hitch. Welding work alone was $1500. But i was too nice...
Be careful with this one the case 580 K was prone to frame the cracks where the integral fuel tank resides the engine has to be removed to repair these cracks in some cases be sure to do thorough research with regard to how this gets repaired and I would have the seller coverer it entirely. Until it's delivered it's the sellers problem.
I told him it would have to be done by a dealer. He's going to get back to me about the cost. If it's more than $250 for my half, I will walk away.
You have two choices, get your money back, or be very fussy about how it is fixed at seller's expense. This tank is the left half of the loader frame. If it is cracked, stresses have been exerted way outside the parameters of design. A cracked loader frame is a broken loader frame. These things are massive. The engine failure may be explained by stresses from this event. Cummins engines are easy to rebuild, and are sometimes rebuilt in the tractor. Replacement may suggest a broken block.
I just backed out. It didn't feel right.
good job! fun to get all excited but the troubles will be too much. total $$$ pit just looking around at ohio craigslist are some deals if i had some $$$ to play with. Could do way better where your at than out here in phx.
I recently drove a John Deere Crawler at a great price. It had a few bugs, so the price seemed correct. The yard was newly graded, and was very stony, and well picked off, so I was reluctant to dig it up. It ran well, I agreed to buy it. We went back on the weekend with truck, trailer, and an expert. We gave it a very thorough inspection. Letting it run a long time to fully warm up. Smoke was coming out of the back of the tractor. I crawled in an inch of slush to find a rubber hose spewing smoke, and oil. Following it I came to the engine vent. In all this crawling, and following, I discovered welded plates reinforcing the cast iron transmission housing. Not wanting to own a welded cast iron transmission, I backed out on the deal. On the way home, I talked to a JD crawler specialist, said he usually parts them out, but rehabs the occasional nicer one. They were prone to breaking the bolts attaching front crossmember to the track frame. Lazy mechanics would then weld crossmember to track frame. This took away flexibility, causing the crossmember to break. This left the front of the tractor with nothing holding it up. The transmission housing would be the next casualty. He went on to say this model had big troubles with dry clutches rusting solid. Three weeks later I found a nice Dresser in much better shape.
Yeah, but it was only used with a sweeper, by a little old lady to go to church on Sundays Sorry, we probably weren't suspicious ENOUGH of the cracked loader mount and new engine. I wonder if it was dropped? or Jethro used it to ram a solid bank to try to get the bucket full? The dusted engine excuse sounded alright, but they would have had to mess up their air cleaner to do that also, like knocking the dust off and putting them back in without noticing tears in the filter element.
I had a CK that had a crack in the loader frame on the opposite side which was the hydraulic tank and was able to cut a hole in the floor and with the back wheel off able to grind it out and weld it up. I was also aware the engine had to be removed if the fuel tank sprung a leak. Just wasn't aware if the K was the same as the CK for a heads up. Once repaired they never seemed to give any more problems.
Thanks, guys. I will give him a lot of credit for mentioning it. He could have just delivered it. Anyone know what years this was an issue? I remember reading somewhere the Super L had been redesigned and didn't have these problems.
Also, I'm going to be pushing a lot of dirt. I would just rent a dozer if the area wasn't covered with trees but I need that hoe to get the stumps and move timber. I have been looking exclusively at 4wd but if I open this up to 2wd the prices drop quite a bit. Is my assumption that I NEED a 4wd incorrect? Would tire chains help?
2wd is basically getting to where you want to dig with hoe, or you're on hard surface and cannot use 4wd anyhow. IF you want to do anything meaningful with the loader or a 4way bucket you need 4wd. Also tire selection is a biggie. With my 2wd i need to use the loader bucket to push me out of the muck when i get stuck. With 4wd there is a great chance i could get through the muck with a load in the bucket as well. night and day the work you can do but it all depends on the material as well. I was recently going to rent a dozer for a job and ended up using my 2wd skip loader instead. got it done and took more time breaking up clay. point being you can accomplish almost any job with 2wd if your competent and savvy. even 4wd get stuck! for trees and stumps most guys use excavators with thumbs. if you decide on backhoe try to get a 4 way bucket. very handy for those stumps
I second the 4in1 front bucket if you are dealing with timber. When I got my 580SK, I originally was not looking for a 4in1 front bucket, but it came on the machine I made a deal on. I have used it a lot more than I ever thought I would. I have cleared a lot of brush and trees with my SK, as well as pushing dirt, and definitely would recommend 4WD. Not to say you can’t do it with 2wd, but 4wd gives you the ability to more easily do useful work in varying ground conditions. I have never used chains, so I can’t comment there except to say with a backhoe you have multiple ways to unstick yourself. Regarding the wet chassis, I would not consider it a problem on the K. Leaks typically only show up on machines that have been abused. From a buyers perspective, it can be a good thing. If there are no fuel or oil leaks on a 20+ year old machine, then that is a one indicator that the chassis has not been excessively stressed. I have moved some very large trees whole with my 4in1 bucket, without any issues. Just remember to keep the weight equalized left/right so the loader is not being twisted.
I don't own an excavator. I've operated maybe 10 of them. Better ones are sweet at bucket work. They all stink at blade work. I do have a backhoe. The three miles between my land & home is about 12 minutes, An excavator needs a truck, trailer, and two hours to load, unload, and bind. I can scoop a 6000 lb rock with the front bucket, and move it 2/10 mile with ease, and efficiency. My 8 ton backhoe will dig out a bigger rock than an 8 ton excavator. It is more versatile. An excavator digs more quickly. I now have a dozer, 7 metric tons, 70HP. It is perfect for smoothing out the ground. With a rake, it can rid land of roots, and rocks. It will remove trees, but much more slowly than a backhoe. With either machine ROPS protection is a must removing trees. The hoe, you drive the teeth into the trunk and push. 20" trees uproot right away. Bigger trees need some digging to sever some of the roots. This can be done with a crawler too but a bigger mess ensues, and it takes longer. With a ladder, and very stout rigging, you can pull a tree down. This is very dangerous. I see a backhoe as the most versatile machine. 4 wheel drive is very important, a torque converter is too. Lots of weight, extend a hoe, hydraulic thumb, joystick control, and 4 in one bucket are great. A cab with heat, or AC depending where you live. Pilot controls, and ride control usually mean more money by a big factor.
If you will use it in winter weather tire chains are essential. Gravity does bad things to these elephants on a hill! 4 wheel drive is most important for loaders. Scooping processed materials off a hard concrete level surface, you might get by with 2 wheel drive. Resale value of two wheel drive backhoes is very low!
I had 2 wheel drives BH's for 10 years before I could afford 4 wd but had to have chains on to move if it was slippery. But I managed to build miles of rd. across a mt. side during winter for a logging company plus hundreds of other jobs. For loader work a 4 wd drive can't be beat makes it the most versatile machine you can own. In 17 years I've only had to put chains on the front wheels twice due to ice and steep hills. I'm not sold on 4 in 1 front bucks like some of the others their heavy and reduce the amount they hold for moving dirt around. I put on a good cutting edge that sticks out 6" past the bucket and I can pick up logs and whip them around much fast than with the 4 in 1 and I don't have to worry about bending it picking up stumps or boulders. If your grading and only want to take off 1 or 2" their handy because you can ride on the clam to control the depth. Around here any backhoe for sale goes fast if it's not over priced but 4 wd is most popular.
My first, a JD straight 410 2 WD I reasoned was too heavy to need chains. My first wild ride down a gentle hill convinced me otherwise. It wasn't Chevy Chase on the snow coaster, but it got my heart hate up.
My property is very hilly and in Ohio we have a lot of clay so 4wd is probably worth the cost. I certainly don't want any wild rides on a hill with trees. Probably a good way to go get ejected!
Last 2 posts reminded me with 4 wd you have 4 wheel brakes very important going down hill I've had some scary rides. My property is all steep up and down.
ditto on the chains and 4WD - a necessity on sloped ground in the winter around here - and handy most of the rest of the year My place is everything but flat. I change 200 feet vertical on 40 acres.
Willie B, What do you have for a crawler? TD7e?
Benjamin, My K has a crack on the other side - the bottom of the hydraulic tank. It came like that. Someone had tried to weld it and didn't completely succeed so it still drips a little. It's on the to do list. The machine had been worked hard and under maintained but I got it for less than 10K with 4000 hours on the meter. Who knows if that's right but it doesn't smoke and drives good. The front shaft has a little play in it. I thought it was the u-joints so I pulled it but it turns out it's the splined piece that the shaft bolts to in the front. Anyone know how much play there should be - if any?
The chain thing is true of both four wheel, and 2. Moving, and slipping in any direction will instantly convert to down the natural tilt of the hill. A road cut into a hill is not where your tractor will be when it slides. My driveway is near level. It is raised a few feet higher than the lawn. In an instant, I'm out in the middle of the lawn. These things are very heavy snow coasters, going where only gravity decides.
Dresser TD7G about 1990
Chains on the 4WD will be in my future. I couldn't even plow the most important part of my driveway - the beginning - until I got chains on the 2WD because even though I could plow down to the road, it couldn't make it back up. At least with the 4WD I can make it back up - but just barely. Chains on all four wheels would be real nice and help keep it out of the woods or a ditch. Ever take your crawler out skating? - and for all those in warmer places, I plowed with the hoe last night, we only got about 4 or 5 inches but it isn't going to melt anytime soon - it was 6 degrees at 6:00 am. It was 78 the other day when I was on my motorcycle. Gotta love that New England weather. You just never know.
I haven't been for a ride on the crawler yet. A major logging/excavating is owned by a brother of an in law of mine. When I was a kid they had about 20 John Deere 350 crawlers. 10 arrived in one order. Employees busied themselves on weekends working on the machines. Some crawlers got out in the woods before being "corked" The running joke was that they would be upside down for certain. The operator would need new pants. It might be battery acid, or it might be human feces. They only logged national forest in winter. Mountains are steep. I won't be on land that steep.
Do you have a winch on that crawler to pull the backhoe out of trouble? It seems like a good accessory and something else to work on.
No, I very much want one. Winches aren't hard to find. A PTO to fit is scarce, and costly. The most versatile thing about a backhoe is it can move itself without wheels. I've never been too stuck, I cant self extricate.
Right, a backhoe can usually get itself out of trouble but the landscaping can take a beating in the process if you're in a finished area - if I'm driving anyway. I was trying to keep it backhoe related since this isn't the crawler forum. I have a '78 TD7e that i'd like to have a winch on, too. There's always something that needs to be retrieved around here. What about the front drive shaft on your K - any looseness or play on the front end at the splined shaft adapter - or should it be tight like any other drive shaft / u-joint set up? I was trying to figure out how that splined piece could wear.
I'll pay more attention, I believe my front axle drive shaft is tight. I'm a big believer in grease. I insist on a complete greasing before each day's use even if it didn't get 8 hours the day before. Some corporate owners do the same. Mine does have slop in the back bucket area, and bottom pins on the front bucket.
There's no grease fittings where I'm talking about. I guess you could apply grease to the splines on that shaft that sticks out of the front differential and maybe you're supposed to but wouldn't that just hold grit? I'll have to look that up. The u-joints are well greased and have no slop even though that's what it felt like when I grabbed the shaft and shook it to check them. I just don't see how that splined piece that slides on the front diff. shaft could wear so much. I've never seen clearance like that in a drive shaft situation. Just hoping to compare with someone else's machine. Thanks. The piece in question is splined to match the shaft and has two pinch bolts that I thought should make for a tight fit - or else why have them?
No, mine is tight, I'd bet it'd be a struggle to get it apart. These shafts don't need much variation in length. I didn't crawl around much. If there isn't a slip spline on the other end, it must be like my truck where the end slip is in and out of the transfer case. If yours is very loose, you'll likely need to replace both yoke, and pinion shaft in the front differential. It sounds worse than it is. Maybe somebody can offer a way to tighten the worn two pieces. I would avoid Locktight unless you have a better fit than I imagine.
Hey, thanks for checking that for me. It makes sense that it should be tight. The slip yoke is on the other end and that is greased. I'm hoping that replacing the splined piece with the pinch bolts will be enough and I won't have to get into the differential. I was thinking that making the pinch slot bigger would give me more bite. It's bottomed out now. I'm thinking that piece might be made of softer material than the shaft and did most of the wearing. Wishful thinking at this point. Thanks again.
Might as well give it a try, not much to lose at this point.
It'd be a crude fix. I believe you could use a new pinion flange. Perhaps cut it as you mentioned. If it were assembled on the pinion shaft, you might cut off the pinion to allow at least the leading edge of the new flange to engage the unworn portion of the pinion shaft. If it then won't tighten down on the length of the spline, you will have an exposed end to weld to the flange. Chamfer both the end of the shaft, and the rearmost end of the bore of the flange. The whole assembly will be a big heat sink. In steel it won't conduct heat far, but great care should be taken to limit the weld heat to that portion of shaft inside the female spline of the flange. I would use 7018 1/8" new . DC electrode positive (reverse polarity), Crank heat to the upper limits of the rod manufacturer's recommendations. Weld a bit, let it cool. Repeat. The alternative is likely a new pinion, and flange.
Thanks for the options and the welding tips. Like Delmer said - not much to lose at this point.