Working the 310C Today, Started strong, but after an hour of digging, the engine started to labor under load. Engine oil low but still showing at bottom of range. Hydraulic fluid low but still in the sight glass. No smoke, but eventually engine lost power and stalled. After a few minutes, it restarted but gradually lost power and stalled again. Under tow home, the engine was run for power steering only. Engine stalled out several times. Besides a new fuel filter (to be p/u in the morning) what else should I look for?
Could be just the filter, could be the lift pump. If it's original, there's a strainer connected to the fitting that screws into the bottom of the fuel tank. Most likely it's plugged up. disconnect the hose on the tank side of the lift pump, see if you get any flow by gravity. You can blow a little air back through the line with the fuel cap off, but if that is the problem it will probably just plug up again, best to pull all the fuel out of the tank and remove the fitting, clean the strainer. Put clean fuel in the tank. One last possibility I can think of, make sure the fuel return line is clear, from the fitting on the pump back to the tank, with the fuel cap off blow air through. Also remove the return fitting from the top of the injection pump, make sure the check valve is free and that it's not plugged with debris of some kind. I use a regulator limited to about 15 pounds of air when blowing out fuel lines myself. Good luck, Lanway
There's no joy in North Carolina this evening... New fuel filter didn't revive the engine. There is fuel from the tank to the lift pump. The lift pump was replaced two months ago. The lift pump was able to fill the new filter manually. There is flow from the fuel return fitting on the injection pump. Next item tomorrow ... the check valve Lanway ... The check valve is between the return fitting and the pump body, right? How does a leaking check valve starve the engine of fuel when it's preventing backflow from the tank?
Some of the rotary pumps will shut down if the return line gets plugged up. Something to do with too much back pressure. If you have fuel flow out of it, make sure the return line to the tank is clear. If the check valve is stuck open it won't keep fuel pressure in the pump, probably wouldn't die but might lose power under load. Yes, the check valve should be the first thing on top of the pump....
We had some down pours yesterday evening. So it's Mudville here. AND there's joy in Mudville tonight. The Check valve Lanway suspected was the issue. It was plugged with debris. It was a bit fibrous and dark. Nothing that a fuel filter would pass. The engine started and ran strong for 15 minutes. We get back on the job this week-end. Lanway... is this a sign of a pump breaking down? And what's the cause? Is it cause for an immediate pump repair to prevent further damage? Or would repeat failure just mean another downed machine. The BHL doesn't contribute to the mortgage so downtime is just time. What service/s should I ask a pump repair place for? If you're ever in Greensboro, NC, The round of drinks is on me! Thanks for the advice. :drinkup
The pump guru that told me about this years ago said there was a fiber flex plate inside the older rotary pumps that would break down over time, and yeah, brown fibrous would be right on the mark. Time to take it to a pump shop sooner rather than later as I would think that material can't be good for the metal parts inside the pump and it won't be long before something causes a complete shutdown. I think the replacement is a stainless steel drive plate? Hopefully Thepumpguysc on here will chime in with a more educated opinion.
Sounds like a broken "flex ring",, The pump manuf. has an update called an "EID" weight retainer.. if you don't ever want this problem again, get 1 installed in your rebuild.. Some #'s off the name plate of the inj. pump would help.. Diesel Equipment in Greensboro is the Regional Distributor for all things fuel injected.. GOOD FOLKS.. but your gonna pay for it.. The return connector IS GOING TO clog again.. you can get by for ALITTLE WHILE if you remove it and smash the glass ball and spring out of it.. JUST KEEP IN MIND>> all those little bits of plastic are going back to the fuel tank.. and could/will cause you problems down the road.. AND>> its NOT a perminant fix.. eventually the 2 pieces that are buffered by the ring will eventually shear and you'll have a "run-away" engine.. SO when Lantraxco says, its better sooner than later.. he right on the money..
I just went through this last spring. Engine starts and runs fine from cold start. Then as the machine warms up it'll run rough then die. When the injector pump cools off it'll start again but probably run rough. The "coffee grounds" looking stuff in the return check (and probably behind the pump timing window) means your injector pump is eating itself. The machine stalls when the pump rotor overheats and binds. You'll need the total rebuild most likely. Like others say, you can upgrade a lot of new internal parts at this time. Any good shop will fix you right up.
IT's ALIVE !!! Just reinstalled the rebuilt pump. Allowed the fuel to fill the pump till the check valve was full. Attached the return line and injection lines finger tight...cranked it 4 times. The engine sputtered a bit so then tightened the fittings at the pump. Brief cranking and the engine caught and Fired! Thanks to the good folks on this forum and in particular to Lantraxco. I was able to restart my dying Deere 310C and get it into position to work on. Propping the FEL up sure makes it easier to get to the injection jump. The Pump was taken off with several tips from the forum. (securing the throttle lever at WOT position before removal) The worse part was plugging the return and supply lines. The tank was full of fuel. There was a 1/8 NPT fitting going to the check valve that was easy to cap. The supply fitting was a 5/16 37 degree flare. No such matching fitting in the local auto/farm/hardware stores. A rubber glove finger and wire worked for the two weeks while the pump was sent to KY, rebuilt, returned. Thanks again to all that responded to my thread.
PS... The answer to my question of how does a check valve kill the engine? The fuel is moved to the injection pump cylinders by pressure from the transfer pump. Excess fuel is dumped into the body of the pump for return to the tank. If the fuel return is blocked at the check valve, line or outlet.... the pump body becomes pressured more than the lift pump can overcome. No fuel can enter the injection pump cylinders and the engine dies.
I'd like to ask thepumpguysc, is it a good idea to replace this fiber washer before it fails. Could this prolong or avoid unnecessary damage?
It would be in YOUR BEST INTEREST to replace it IF ITS BROKEN.. surging, shutting off, loss of rpm and even loss of throttle control are all symptoms of a broken/failing flex ring.. The question isn't IF its going to fail,, its WHEN.. The pump manuf. has a permanent fix for this problem.. its called an EID weight retainer.. some folks opt to get 1 and others don't.. runs the price of an overhaul up, about 75-90.00 [US] The broken pieces of the flex ring end up back in the fuel tank, if they make it that far.. some will clog the return connector and some will clog the return line going back to the tank.. and that's not to mention the damage it can do to the inside of the injection pump if the ring totally fails.. and the engine runs away.. BOOM..
if your machine have shut dawn valve at the inyection pump the solenoid afther Works several hours may be the solenoid dosent Works if let it to few minutes off it work again
Let me rephrase. Why should I wait for symptoms. Why is it not a good idea to replace or upgrade to the EID weight retainer as a preventative maintenance measure.
DIY service ... take the pump off and send it to a rebuilder. Took me 2 hours to take the pump off. An experienced service tech may do it in 1/2 the time or less. Local rebuilder quoted $650 ... Shipping it off took 3 weeks and $450 EID adds $80 to that. Another two hours to install the pump. If the machine were used in critical time sensitive projects ... sure but then you'd use a low hour machine instead of a tired old TLB. Old farm TLB or hobby machines are very cost sensitive... I chose not to upgrade to the EID. It'll be someone else's problem in 15-20 years. Your machine, your projects, your choice.
IF it ain't broke, don't fix it.. same reason I don't rebuild my engine every time I change the oil.. LOL and depending on the model of pump you have and the date of manuf... it might have 1 in it already..
Pumpguy ... I've done some looking on the internet. Is the EID a plastic looking part? As compared to the old style flex ring that is brown & fiberous. Or is it a whole different part altogether?
It takes the place of the plastic looking ring.. google, stanadyne 29111.