I have seen stuff in my fuel. Sometimes it looks like algae ( that slime that grows in water). In diesel fuel is it an actual live critter or a chemical reaction or the fuel breaking down? David d.
It is not really algae but it is the natural organic make up of the fuel that is separating out. Add one of the treatments they sell for this.
I'm certainly not an expert on the subject, but I found this to be interesting reading. http://www.fourwinds-ii.com/v2/?c=library&i=algaeCauseEffect
Side question to this I guess but I was told they started using alot of animal fats in deisels the last few years. Right before the engine starts to gel up you can pull the fuel filter off and pump alot of this "snot" out. This if true could be something of the same sorts as the "algae".
That was interesting reading, Atco. I am always a little suspicious of stuff that is advertising; and, I think they are downplaying the biological side of the issue. They just make passing reference to biocides, and I am sure that sometimes it is a microbe issue, since sometimes if you get contaminated fuel, the problem will spread to fresh fuel.
i seen the mechanic pour the algae x stuff in the fuel tanks... acted like it was a million bucks a drop...
I have several problems with the article the first of which is that they are selling a product to fit their definition of a problem. Having been in charge of the fuels on the ship I was stationed on while in the navy I spent a week in a school learning how petroleum is refined and how to test it to ensure it is usable for the intended purpose. I can definitely say that algae does form in tanks that have water in them. I have seen first hand the gel that forms inside tanks, fuel lines and valves and plugs filters. Different types of petroleum products may have characteristics that algae may have an easier time forming in but I have never seen or heard that the algae problem is caused as a result of the way petroleum products are made. Distillate fuels were being refined by cracking way back in the sixties when the automobile production and use really went crazy in the world. I'm quite sure there are members here that can back that up with first hand knowledge. One need only review what the news media was saying about the gulf oil spill to hear of bacteria eating crude oil to give one pause about the veracity of what is being stated in the article.
FWIW, wife works at refinery, says they use different biocides to treat fuel.... says if there's water... there's going to be microbes.... maybe even some if there's no water. again... for whats thats worth..
Since the forum search index obviously isn't what it was before the hacking and infection episodes, you can use Google's site search function to find other discussions we've had about algae. Of course, this thread is first on the list, but there are more than a few others: algae site:HeavyEquipmentForums
Bio-Diesel will form algae if not stored properly. Correct fuel additives will solve the problem.
Use some Power Service Bio-Kleen followed by Power Service Clear Diesel fuel stabilizer/cleaner. That will clean your system up and after about 2 to 3 tanks of fresh fuel, change your fuel filters and treat it once more and everything should be clean.
ive been told that there is no differance in #1 fuel and #2 fuel except the red dye. could this make a difference in slime problem
keep your fuel tank in full to avoid moisture and turn to water, algae forms on stagnant water
I have seen the stuff before in some of our equipment. Keep the tank water free by draining it every now and then and it is less likely to happen. We have added 5 gallons of gas to 150 gallon tank of fuel and it seemed to help kill the stuff. I dont know if that was the right thing to do, but it worked for us a few times.
Usually no traditionaly #1 is very similar to kerosene. It has less lubricity, and has a lower "freeze point." Winter fuel is basically a blend of #1 and #2. Also #1 typically has 8-12% less energy content than #2. It really all depends on where your get your fuel from. IIRC you can mix gas into diesel up to 10%-20% and not do immediate damage to the engine but it will increase the wear a bit. Normally it only done in emergency when the fuel has gelled due to cold weather. I have never heard of it used to kill algae.
To clarify what Dozerboy said; #1 and #2 diesel fuel doesn't mean on road and off-road, killowatt.
Thanks to all that replied. There has been some very good info exchanged here. Thanks again, David d.
john c. is right, I've seen tanks on ships turn to crud and it is a mess you will only endure once. water is the cause of it and now with the bio diesel bs you have water in it all the time. warm climate accelerates it's growth, cold weather not so much. If your fuel sits around lots get some bio bore into it......(bio boar?) otherwise, just drain the condensate, change filters and keep your tanks full. watch the bio bore, wear glasses etc. !!!! yes, it's nasty crap but no matter how clean your fuel this stuff fills our racor filters after about a month running.........(V16's and V12's) continuous operation.
I worked at a commercial laundry as the fix-it guy a few years back, and the hydraulic tanks for the big washers sat right over the steaming drain trench. It was a frequent thing to have to tear into the hydraulic system and clean the algae out of the valve ports and spools, and once in a while skim the top of the tank. More recently, the place I was working at got a used ConVault for diesel. After we had it a few months, it started dribbling out the bottom of the tank. According to ConVault and everybody else in the industry I have talked to, it was the first ConVault tank on record to spring a leak! (not counting the ones that have trains plow through them, they frequently survive trucks hitting them!) It was just a few months from the end of the 20 year warranty, but it had started leaking because it had not been treated properly with biocide and anti-corrosion juice. So, they wouldn't cover it under warranty... :Banghead Anyway, talking to the ConVault engineers as they studied the tank, I learned a lot about diesel and little bugs! If you don't treat the diesel, a little moisture gets in and the bacteria and algae start growing. The bad thing is that one of the types of bacteria that likes that environment eats iron for dinner. That was what killed the tank, years of no treatment and the 1/4 inch steel tank ate through allowing the diesel out to the secondary liner of Geotextile cloth, which will hold it for a year or 2, then it finally eats through that and out a crack in the 4" reinforced concrete shell. Good thing we had an old tanker truck to pump the 1200 gallons of #2 into! So, treat your diesel tanks! I used a combination of Biocide and Water Absorber (alcohol basically). The BioKleen looks pretty good for Biocide. If you don't your storage tank warranties are toast. Oh, and take any intake screens off of your hydraulic pumps. If they get clogged with crud or algae the pump cavitates destroying the pump and everything downstream. Better to have sand (keep your oil/tank clean!) go through the pump, then pieces of pump go through the motor! It's common to see the intake screens, but they are not Best Practice, and cause more $ damage than without. Ben~
Running an alcohol type water Emulsifiers are a bad idea. Alcohol dries out the fuel and adds wear to the fuel system. The only types of big name fuel additives the use alcohol still are for Emergencies and limited use only like Power Service 911. Emulsifiers in generally are a bad idea on newer high pressure injector system. You want De-emulsifiers so the water goes to the bottom of the tank where it can be drained or caught by water separators if it get picked up.
I agree with you on equipment/vehicles. I was referring to storage tanks that don't have a bottom drain or any way to remove the water. On a ConVault type tank the water will just pool on the bottom of the tank below the pickup tube leading to corrosion at the water line. You can use a thief pump or similar setup to remove the majority of the water, but unless the tank is tilted so ALL the water is in one spot, and that is where you pump from, you are going to leave small puddles on the bottom. It doesn't take much to start eating through the tank! Another thing with storage tanks is that unless you live in certain areas such as California :drinkup , you aren't going to get much mechanical agitation, so the water can stay separated unless you can get something to emulsify the water. Since you should be filtering the fuel out of the tank anyway, it should catch any sludge, and you can throw a water absorber filter if you are worried or having problems. I haven't looked into this, are there any good non-alcohol water remover/absorber liquid treatment? I don't remember what I was using for it, but I assume it was alcohol-based. Here's an article ConVault has on their site that explains things pretty good: http://www.convault.com/pdfdoc/Fritzke.PDF Ben~
I know there are some non-alcohol Emulsifier additives, but fuel sysem manufactures still don't like them. FPPF is one that is well known but it isn't cheap. Thats just what the average consumer can get maybe suppliers can get something better. I know I tried a non-alcohol Emulsifier in my truck called Ezoil because it did well in a mileage test a friend did. I will never use it again. My 06 Duramax started dieseling a few months after I started using it in the mornings. I quit using it and my truck has never done it since.