Can someone please tell me the difference in a 12G and 120G? Same with a 14G and 140G. I've been wondering this for awhile. Thanks!
I believe on the 120 and 12 it is a matter of horsepower. On the 140 and 14 the 14 is physically bigger and also has more horsepower.
Welcome to the forums CountryBoy685:drinkup The 12 has a 12 Foot moldboard on it, as does the 120, but the 120 has less power and the option for AWD. Not sure if a 12 can have AWD:beatsme 14 and the 140: 140 has a standard 12 foot moldboard, less power and the option for AWD. 14 has a 14 foot moldboard, more power and a physically bigger machine that is heavier. 16 and 160: The 16 has a 16 foot moldboard and is heavier and more powerful than the 160. The 160 has option for AWD and has less power and a 12 foot moldboard. All graders here have the option for a bigger moldboard by using 2 foot extensions. So to sum up, the equivalent graders are: 12 is a 140 14 is a 160 and a 16 would be a 180 if it existed. Which it doesn't. Hope this helps!
From memory the 120G has the 3304 T engine @ 120 HP, the 12G has the 3306 NA @ 135 HP, there was also the 130 G that had the 3304 T @ about 130HP I think. There is quite a difference in the lugging power between the 12 G and the other 2, 6 cyls v 4 cyls makes for quite a difference as well there is a weight difference between them. A 12G will eat the other 2 with out much effort. Cheers RDG.
For what it's worth I was told by a CAT salesman that "0" series were developed so that Cat could compete price wise with other brands, particularly in the bidding process with government departments. "12 foot moldboard machines are all the same" which seems to be the way a lot of the government bidding seems to work. The Cat graders were very pricey. Our local township replaced their 12 grader with a John Deere 12' grader and bought a backhoe and still paid less than the Caterpillar bid for just a new 12.
I have training class today, which I have to get to so I don’t have time this morning, but I will respond to this tonight after class and explain exactly what the differences are or were.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one that has wonderd what the diffrence was. I worked a lot with the fine grade crew at my old job, I run hoe but we alway put all hands on fine grading. Any way, we had a 140G at the time and It was getting time to send the old girl to a good home where some one had the time to care for it so the bosses started shopping. The owner's brothers also have a (much) larger outfit and had bought a new 16H around the same time and our blade hand, and well, pretty much everyone thought that was above and beyound over kill for our needs but he wanted to try a 14H. He had told me that the 14 size machine wasn't really even comparable to a 140 in weight and power but here in Maine, I have never seen one in person, nore a 160/163H size. I have read the specs but I'd have to see to judge. A side note, the boys with the big old 16H bought a 140M AWD last year, which I think is also the only one in state around here. We did try a 143H and 772D but for some odd reason they bought a komatsu, which if the blade dosen't fall off before 3000 hours I'll be surprised, a new machine should be a lot tight and rugged then a 12,000 hour one.
agree to a point, I've only ever seen a 140H with a 14ft blade never with a 12Ft blade, that would make it a 12H
i dont think blade length has anything to do with machine size. seen 12 with 14, and 16 foot blades as well as a brand new 14h with a 12foot Why? dont know why any one would waste a machine that size on a 12 feet just to lay out crush. 140h and 160h are pretty much identical in size. 160 is a little heaver and according to the manual i have , the same motor. im sure there are a few other things but dimensions in the book are REALLY close. As for the 12,120,130 differencees not entirely sure.
Just ask this same question at work today and couldnt get an answer. Thanks D11RCD!
I have also seen many different lengths of blade on each machine. In this state the counties like the 140 size machines with 12' blades. An operator told me he could dress the shoulders better and not have to worry about how much the other end was sticking out in traffic. Most of the snow machines had 14' blades to work with the wings. I haven't seen a 120 or a 12 machine anywhere out here in years. It seems the Lee Boy make has taken over a bunch of the parking lot work that these used to do. I'll be interested in what Randy has to say.
Thanks for the info, I have always wondered about it. Here in eastern Va, most contractors have a 12G or H. I have only seen a few contractors with a 14, you might see maybe 1 16. But most of the time its a 12 and some 120s. But i saw a guy have a 140G, it looked like it had 12Ft blade on her and it looked to be similar size to the ol 12G that I have been running. Its a nice looking machine, I've been told the 140s are a turboed 3306 were the 12s have a 3306NA. Is that true? And is the pshysical size of a 140 the same as a 12?
Actually I think the 12 and 140 are the same frame then the frame size changes with the 14, Randy will know. I have 12G 61M7378 and it is a N/A 3306 and like RDG says the 120 is a 4 banger
Nomenclature CountryBoy685 To answer your original question regarding the G Series; The 12G, 140G & the Custom Products Division 160G all shared the same mainframe and design centerlines. The 120G was built on a totally different (smaller, lighter & shorter) mainframe and centerline design. The 140G was really nothing more than a turbocharged stripped down version of the Naturally Aspirated 12G. Too many government agencies were complaining about the 12E not having enough power when they were equipped with a nose plow and wing. Packing the additional weight slowed the machine down plus the conversion from number 2 fuel to number 1 fuel during the winter months further accentuated the problem. To solve the problem Caterpillars engineers determined they could turbocharge the engine and gain the additional horsepower needed. The original target horsepower for the 140 development program was 140 horsepower. After 2 years of testing (1969 &70) they determined that it still wasn’t enough and the new target became 150hp, but the original nomenclature stuck. One more core had to be added to the radiator when compared to the N.A. 12F. The 140 program carried right over in to the G Series, then into the G series VHP machines and right on over into the H Series. The 140H became the highest selling motor grader in the world. The 160H became the new snow plow market machine. It was basically a high horsepower version of the 140H. They shared the same mainframe design, engine, transmission (except the input gears), hydraulics (except the articulation cylinders) and drawbar. The 160H got a heavier circle ring (5mm thicker & 10mm deeper), the bladebeams were 60mm thicker. The moldboard parent plate was basically a 14H (1”thick & 27” tall) with 12H/140H M Plate rigging welded to the back. The 160H got bigger tandem drive chains and cases to handle the additional horsepower, center to center spacing though (60”) was the same as the 12H/140H. 14G & H (Tier 1 & Tier 2) shared the same mainframe and centerline design. The Tier 3 14Hs got a totally new longer frame. The 14G & H have always had a unique centerline design; longer and heavier (nearly 10,000lbs.) than any of the smaller machines. The only components that were ever common between the 14 and 160 were the engine, cab and moldboard parent plate. In regards to the engine both used a jacket water aftercooled 3306 during the Tier 1 & Tier 2 program and both used the 3176 during the Tier 3 program. As I stated before the 160G was a Caterpillar Custom Products Design and was built specially for Saudi Arabia. That’s why it’s not listed in the “Former Models” section of the PHB. The 12H, 140H and 16OH all shared the same mainframe and design centerline. The front frame on the 143H, 160H & 163H have heavier plates on the inside of the front frame, but from the outside this cannot be seen. The frame looks identical (from the outside) when compared to the 12H/140H frame. There’s way more to this story, but now it’s time to relax!!! Regards, Randy
Thanks, Randy Ya know, if you get tired of being cold, you can come south for a couple of weeks, and make a real grader op out of me. Or, maybe it would take a couple of years?
Thanks for all that info Randy, most informative. Cheers RDG.
Sorry, i was referring to the M series. I didn't realise it was only the Gs. Sorry.
Randy, so well put!!. It's great to have the people on here that can explain things to the 'little people' (speaking of me,not the other members on HEF). Well Done.
Thanks Randy thats quite the explaination! So if I was in the market for a 12G, it sounds like I'd be better off with a 140G since there the same size but the 140 Having more power. Awesome!! Thanks for the all the info.
learn new info all the time.. thats for that info!
CountryBoy685 The 140G would be my choice especially if the machine is equipped 17.5 widebase tires. I’ve run a lot of different 140G’s through the years and they all have had good power. The 12G’s did fine in finishing applications and some road maintenance, but when it came to ditching, placing and heavy snow plowing they just didn’t have the same power. In the winter time when the machines were running on Number 1 fuel and were all loaded up with the snow plow attachments (nearly 8,000lbs.) you could really feel the difference. Remember the graders were all available with optional moldboards, optional tires and rims. The standard moldboard on both the 12 & 140 was 12 foot and the optional moldboard was 14 foot. I do remember that the majority of the 140H’s were being sold with the 14 foot moldboard. They even offered the 14 foot 160H moldboard as an option on the 140H, which was 3 inches taller and 1/8 inch thicker. It was recommended that it only be used in snowplowing and light road maintenance applications. I remember seeing some county 140G’s and 140H’s in Kansas which were equipped with a 14 foot moldboard and 2 foot extensions; the graders were primarily used for gravel road maintenance. Mitch504 I don't think I could take the heat down there, I would need an oxygen tank and beer cooler in the cab at all times! Regards, Randy
Most of the Counties and alot of the townships around here run 14+2 boards around here for their road maintenance machines. Most are cat 140 or 160's or deere 770 or 870's They are about the right size for 2 pass blading on 22-24 foot road widths. If the roads are a little narrower, say 18-20' they still work. We will take off the extension during the winter for snow removal. I have a deere that has a 12' board w/ 2-2' extensions. I personally think the 12' board works great in the winter with a wing, :my2c
Shortboard Does a 12 footer cut ice better than a 14? Thanks again to Randy for all his information.
I'll add a couple of more items. When the graders moved to the M-series for Tier 3, a few additional changes happened. The 12M went onto the same platform as the 120M. They both use the same chassis and C6.6 engine. The 140M and 160M use the same chassis. As Randy mentioned, the 14M has a longer frame and weighs quite a bit more than a 14H. The 130G/135H was removed from the line with the M-series. Today its very common to see the 14' by 27" tall moldboard on 140M's and it's standard on the 160M.
DB, ( I may be preaching to the choir, if so forgive me )You will find that the shorter the moldboard the more downpressure/sq in is applied to road surface. Also the thinner the cutting edge the easier it is to penetrate the ice( or during the summer the road base) When cutting ice one has to way the pros/cons of the thinner edge. The thinner edge will wear out much quicker but will cut the ice better. It all depends on how often you want to change edges. As far as the 12' over 14' in the winter, most all of my roads are narrower ( generally 20-22' road surface with a 2-3' shoulder) so the 12' board along with the wing works well for my application.
We have 12Gs and 2 140h machines all have 14ft. moldboards. The140s are heavier and don't slide the frontends around near as bad and do not spin as much
G'day Fellas, First post here, although I have been reading the forum for some time now. I don't mean to hijack the thread,but Iam unable to start a new one and you were talking about 12Gs and the like so I figured it would be OK. I have one of the later 12Gs that has developed an annoying habit of not releasing the park brake, particulrly in the morning. The compressor could be a little tired, but still seems to have plenty of capacity. I have tried hooking up shop air to the supply side of the quick release valve and the actuator works fine every time, along with the qr valve. I have replaced the control valve near the control lever but this made no difference at all. I believe the later graders have a solenoid valve there as well, but Iam not sure of its purpose. The system doesn't appear to have any major air leaks, and usually works fine after it warms up. I would really appreciate any advice as I don't know what to try next. Cheers, Greg
Awesome thread! I often have had this question before and everytime I ask a blade hand they shrug thier shoulders and say they dont know. Now I know! Thanks
is the air not building up? replace the air govenor on the compressor, they can get abit sticky when they get old or the air system isnt drained (also drain the air tanks) but you can give it abit of a tap while its idling which might help.. its the aliminum cylinder with a plastic cap on one end with one hose going from it to the compressor, usally mounted on or near the compressor scrapers had a habit of these doing the same thing if you got pleanty of air pressure it may be the spring brake chamber leaking which is on the RHS under the engine, pull that line off and check the air flow out of the hose, if that is good, put shop air into the booster and see if its leaking
Thanks for the reply rare ss, I tried the whole shop air thing and everything worked perfectly, no leaks with the brake released. In the end I replaced the chamber anyway and it's solved the problem. Always the last thing you try eh? Cheers, Greg
the booster may have worn abit on the shaft or got abit rusty causing it to bind up, at least its sorted
Traning Course ??? yeah right jesus we have lost the plot havent we? 120=12 less horses and lighter construction weight oh and turbo 4 cylinder ( dont ask me why fuel Eco i suspect) 12=12g 6 cylinder heavier constructed to 14 will run 16 and a 10 or a 7 if yah want ( but not many do it ) more horses ) eg 12g was self aspirated ( no turdo ) <-- yes i meant to say that ( a lot of 120 140 models were sold to satisfy clowns like government organizations as in fuel eco ) but basically if you want to move EARTH you GOTTA have POWER theirs no EASY way AROUND it ( contrary to what all the Colored Catalogs tell you hahahaha ) Go FIGURE its quite simple when you know what your doing eh. 12g had more horsies with a self asperated than the **** cat 14g turdos 3306 Contrary to what was told and said ( i know i have driven the lot ) and they came out with a 14 foot blade oh what a crap box they were sort of a bitzza in my opinion.
Uh, Myeffy, I've been reading some of your posts, and, I know you are new here, (in number of posts), so: about 95% of us on here are here to exchange ideas, have pleasant conversations about shared interests, and learn from each other. There is a LOT of knowledge and experience on here free for the asking. We have a mix of everything from total greenhorns, to world-class experts. I have made my living w/ equip. for 26 yrs, and been around it over 40, and I'm still in the lower 3rd. Just as an example, Randy Kreig does teach classes, and has written at least one book on graders. He works on the ice roads in alaska, and everything he has said here that I have checked has been right. You sound like you have knowledge and experience, and might fit in well here, IF you tone down the attitude. Otherwise, you'll find yourself being ignored. Good luck, Mitch
Hi Guys, Newbie here... Just so it is clear, which of these graders have 4 wheel drive (or All Wheel Drive, apart from the 143H), or at least the option to have it? Even with the huge tires they have, I figure they could still get stuck while working on very muddy roads in the rainy season, and the AWD would come in very handy.
Hi Guys, Which of these graders is 4-wheel or All-wheel drive, if at all? Apologies if the information has already been posted somewhere within the thread and I missed it. Rgds, Madozer