so why is it that you don't dig over the drive motors because of damage or what thats the only reason i can see why wou wouldn't? just curios
1.) If your digging in rock, you dont want one to roll up against one of the moters 2.) With the drives behind you you will have more counterwieght behind you 3) The travel pedals will be always correct(push foward and you will go foward) 4.) The weight put on them when digging over them is alot, and not to mention the pressure and shock put on them when digging. Theres more reasons, but mostly its just because they are fragile, and expensive to fix.
A good question and one that caused a lot of comments.
Highlights from that thread: The big reason is that those drive motors weigh a fair bit, so having them in the back gives you that extra bit of counterweight. On a 385 for instance those babys are over 5,000lbs of extra weight. If you are reaching out, lifting heavy loads or working in wet (sinking alot) material the extra counterweight in the back it greatly appreciated. Also if you are having to pick up rocks etc if you have the idlers to the front you can push the rock against the track and use that to slide it into the bucket. If you did that with the sprockets forward you will be grossly abusing them and liable to break something. Lastly it becomes a safety thing as well when working with loads. First point is the extra stability. Second is what the first quote concerns. If you dropped anything into the cab it will push your travel levers back, causing the machine to back up by itself. If your idlers are in the front then you would back off of the object. If your sprockets were in the front you would crush yourself as the machine walked into the object.
I had the head of a dead tree come through the bottom screen on a PC60-7 . I was working with the motors forward , a branch pushed both levers back and the machine walked into the head . The levers bent onto the seat where a couple of my mates had just been as i stood up with the branches breaking under my butt . I managed to turn the key off but if it would have got me in the chest i would'nt have had a chance .
There you go! Another account on why idlers stay in the front! Glad you are ok sir (or ma'am), and thanks for sharing your story.
That story of the tree coming through the window, pushing the levers back and forcing the machine into the tree is scary. The problem stated above to me concerns the operator getting in a position to shove a tree through the cab in the first place. Who would use a PC60 for clearing? Almost any tree would weigh more than the machine. As far as where to put the finals for operation, I would put them anywhere I figured I needed them to be to get the job done safely in a reasonable amount of time. Too many times I've heard tin generals spouting rules about how a machine has to be run. It is usually a mouth on a head, with no ears and spewing crap to justify their authority. I ask anyone to supply some kind of proof that it makes any difference to the life of the final or the productivity of the machine. Maybe a manufacturer can state their recommendation as to where the finals should be and then back that up with some statistics on how that recommendation will save me money or increase the safety of the machine.
A PC60-7 with blade and rubber pads weighs 7.5 tonne . It is quite capable of pushing around small trees when clearing fence lines . It also has the same cab as a 70 tonner . Would it have made any difference what size carrier it was that the tree came through the sceen of ? I find no logic in your statement at all .
I don't work for Cat, but I know they recommend working over idlers for the counterweight factor and the fact that the idlers are springloaded so if you pull anything into the track the spring is taking the force not your motors. I am sure there are more reasons then those however =p Lets say you were simply working in/around a brush pile. You are using the brush as a mat in some wet area and as you track forward a branch cracks and snaps up coming through the window. I use that exampe because I started off running processors, and that very situation can happen very easily. Alot of the forestry dedicated stuff has bullet proof glass, but some guys run old excavators with processor heads and log guards. You can't feed a whole tree through the "grill" but branches etc can still get in. Besides accidents are accidents because something has happened that shouldn't have. You can minimize risk by developing safe work proceedures (work with idlers FORWARD).
Iron Horse, A PC58UU-3 has a maximum reach of 18'7" as stated on the Komatsu web site. I don't have the specifications on the PC60 so this will have to do. Handling trees will usually put the working reach at around 12'. The cab sits about 3.5' off the ground. All this makes the machine much more susceptible to issues such as you faced. A larger machine would be a bit safer for that intended job because the tree would be farther from the cab and the cab would be higher off the ground. No excavator cab is rated for ROPS or FOPS protection by the US government, I don't know about Canadian law. Therefore if you are clearing brush with just a cab and no other protection you are operating in an unsafe manner. Should someone have been hurt in the situation described I'm quite sure the Canadian or US agencies with authority over safety would have cited the operator as the cause of the accident. The fact that the finals were facing forward did not cause the accident, the operator caused it. The next question would be "was the fact that the item hitting the pedals and forcing the machine to travel into the tree a contributing factor to injury of the operator"? Some might find that to be possible but most of the safety people I have dealt with would cite the fact that there was no guard over the window to prevent intrusion of the foreign material in the first place. Again the operator was operating the machine in an unsafe manner because it did no have guarding sufficient to protect the operator. Vantage_TeS The finals are built to take any abuse that would be expected for an excavator of specified size. Yes you want to operate the machine in a way that will prolong the life of all components. It's just that in thirty plus years of maintaining and repairing excavators and other equipment I have found no quantifiable proof that it makes any difference which way you operate the machine. In point of fact if you look at certain feller bunchers you will see that they operate with the sprockets forward. Using anecdotal evidence, especially involving safety, to support an arbitrary rule is ill advised to say the least.
Not every machine is fitted with guarding , if someone is digging dirt and has to remove a stump or a tree that's in the way and they break a screen , that's bad luck , if the thing that broke the screen happens to push on the travel levers , that's also bad luck . I'd hate to see you with a Hall Monitors Badge . You don't dig over the final drives for the simple reason they are supposed to be behind you at all times where possible . If you walk forward especially up hill with the sprockets forward you are pulling slack chain from the top (and against the idler spring)and forcing it under the undercarriage to move . This loose chain under your rollers is not an ideal "track" to run the rollers on . Also because the sprockets are not pulling from the bottom and forcing the machine forward they are pulling from the top (the opposite direction to the intended travel and still are expected to move the machine forward . This creates great stress and undue wear on the walking gear . So what i'm saying is if you have say , an uphill trench to dig for example you should walk up hill with the sprockets at the rear driving the machine forward and as you dig , the machine can almost free wheel back down the slope . Do it the other way around and the sprockets are doing as i said .
Sort of on a parrallel subject but many years ago in New Zealand an operator was working up the side of a mountain (which they always are in NZ) and he didn't lock the front window up properly (or it was defective...don't know)...anyways, he leans out the front window, window comes down on his head and he landed on the travels ...went over the side in a flash. It was a fatal. I know a guy in Worksafe who has been trying to get his hands on the accident report but its all in legals and has been for over 10 years now.
Tragic loss of life . Ride on mowers have a kill switch under the seat . How easy would it be to fit a seat switch and hook it up to the isolation lever so all pilot oil would bypass if the operator gets off the seat . I'd say it would cost 20 bucks to do it at the factory . If i were designing a machine , that feature would just be a mandatory item on all equipment .
anyone notice how many operators are digging over the finals on youtube,just suprised me.
Something about youtube... and photos online for that matter, to keep in mind is that they are just a moment in time. You won't always see operators digging in ideal conditions, loading trucks in a textbook fashion, or "doing things the right way" in those photos and videos. And it doesn't always reflect how the operator normally works, it could just be what had to be done at the time. (Then again... there's a lot of videos of people doings some really stupid stuff on youtube with excavators too:Banghead) However, I am one for digging over the idlers and tracking from one point of the job to another forward whenever practical and possible. If the OEM's recommend it, they have a good reason for it, besides it just seems right to me:beatsme:drinkup
my boss will come off the chain if he sees you digging main over the drive motors
Well Most modern machine's have the track motor's Hidden. so knocking them off isnt really an issue. Big faceshovel operator's have them at the back. This is so they can drive into the face and get the best fill factor or dig unblasted rock. Ross
I have thought that for years.
i agree it's just a moment in time,i myself will dig either way for what ever purpose.but i will also say when i see a machine(set up)say on a bench loading trucks that tells me that they are digging that way for at least a good part of the day.anybody on here that has set something heavy, man holes,boxes whatever,can tell you the finals do make a difference.there are alot of superitendents for larger company's that let operators know that the finals will be in the back for most situations.it's not a perfect world, you do not always have the right size machine,or the perfect situation,but for the most part the machine should be used as intended.imho, of course.
A few shots of my PC60-7 being used for something it probably should'nt have been doing but did anyway..... After i pushed the tree over i held the root ball so it would not stand back up while the property owner cut the trunk through with the chainsaw . (Please note i was digging 180* in the other direction when the owner came back with his saw and i spun around to hold it . I did not push the tree with the finals towards the tree). The tree was in the way of a spillway i was building for an in creek storage dam .
wow,good job iron horse.
and another for all you operators, TRACK WEAR is less when travelling in forward. I just laugh at the guys who are lazy and swing around so they can pull the levers towards them to travel forward for long distances. appereantly, they have not been instructed or are not paying the bill on the undercarriage repairs. there is a reason the tracks are placed on a machine a certain way.
For some odd reason these machines have 360 degree of swing. As for track & rail wear there's more damage done moving a hoe the length of the undercarriage on uneven or rocky terrain than a mile of tramming, forward or reverse. Clean tracks, proper track tension, and even working surface are the life of excavator undercarriage. Don't get me wrong when working an ME or production pipe I work over the idlers, but on site work there's no forward or reverse, it's where I need to dig
It's a wonder one of the manufacturers hav'nt come up with a foot that would come down from the center of the track frame with maybe 4 rams to lift an excavator from the ground . You could steady yourself with the bucket and lift the machine clear of the ground and then use the slew to spin the track gear around . No damage to the ground or the machine . It would look like an Elephants foot about 5' in diameter . Or for a less effective type , the two center bottom track rollers could be on a bogie like on a high track Cat . A ram could force them down which would just pull back on the idler spring . This would make the footprint smaller so the machine could counter rotate easier . Ive noticed if im on a slight mound at the center of the tracks , my machine will counter rotate with little effort . Even lifting the tracks at the front with the boom whilst turning tears up the ground , i wonder if it would work .
It would work BUT would it cost more than the wear on the undercarriage it would save :beerchug BTW, nice PC60 and you obviously are not frightened to use it, impressive lump of wood you dislodged there :drinkup
IS there though??on an Excavator forward is where you are facing,ya I know forward is really when the sprokets are in the back,but on a dozer the spokets are on the back because of the engine/tranny layout,,.........right??? I am not disagreeing but think about it... for the most part a dozer travels in reverse as much as it travels forward. unless you turn around to return back to the start of the push,( which we all know we dont).
Thank's , i was thinking more along the lines of being able to shift the digger 360* in any direction without disturbing the surface . The beauty of an excavator is that with a quick pull of the travel levers you can reposition yourself and resume digging . I think it would be great to be able to do this in all directions without damage to the area , sort of like crab steer on a backhoe . Two more ideas i have , 1 is a Traxcavator on a ballrace slew base the same as an excavator , so you could travel into a pile and scoop , back out and slew around to dump into the truck without spinning the tracks around . The other is an oscillating front axle on a wheel loader the same as the rear axle but with a ram on each side of the front axle . When you want to make a straight cut across a slope or run a drain off of a road or a 1000 other reasons you could tilt the whole machine to get the bucket/blade/forks etc level .
Iron Horse, Cross axle levelling has been around for awhile an various machines... I assume durability or expense (or both) is the reason we don't see it more on wheel loaders.
Like i said , on a "wheel loader" not a Telehandler . Do you have some pictures of this system on a "Wheel loader" ?
The system is used on underground loaders.
This is the type of Wheel Loader i was refering too in my original question , for the above ground use that i mentioned . Does anyone who manufactures THESE type of loaders do one with a leveling option ?
G'day Iron Horse, Iv'e operated wheel loaders most of my life and I have never seen it, not to say that it is not out there. It's an interesting concept and I could think of lot's of instances where it could be used. I think it could be a bit dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced operator if the bucket was in the air and he hit the levelling lever. The answer maybe some sort of mechanical lock for normal loader work with it being released when you want to level the machine. My other concern would be as the machine gets older the accumulated wear in the ram ends would make the machine quite wobbly especially with the bucket in the air. This might also be adressed with a strong mechanical lock. Interesting concept though. Rn'R.
I recall an operator pulling concrete off a 10,000 gallon fuel tank before removal. This was tank #4 in a series of 7 at a Ford research building. This was operator #2 and he had tracks with drives in front as opposed to what was sucessfull 3 times before. I suggested spinning the 335 Cat around but the operator refused....said he had it under control. I watched as he pulled tank #4 out of its sandy moorings and promply sunk this backwards digging excavator!. We used 2 long reach excavators and a 2900 manitowoc to retrieve this very strong excavator from the deep sand!. Got it out and pulled the next 3 tanks with no issue with drives on rear, as the drives from this ole 335 pulled em out like no ones business. From that day foreward....I was convinced!
in order to gain maximum life from your undercarriage you should do as much reverse travel as possible, regardless if the upperstructure revolves or not. dozers are made to push, not to back blade, i agree there are times when this operation is needed, but to maximuize undercarriage, keep it to the absolute minimun, same goes for operators that like to favor one side while steering, keep in mind while operating and give each track equal amounts of time of drive force when at all possible. I am not trying to give a operator school, as i am a far better service technician than a operator, yet i see what does happen in the real world and i know circumstances arise when extreme measures are required, just keep in mind what i said, if you have to travel a long distance, for many cycles, excavator or not, keep the sprockets towards your back side
I think your correct , it would need a Micro Switch on a lift ram so that it would isolate the power to the servo control that powers it . That way it would not work above , say 2 foot . But then after saying that , there were many times i remember trying to get the downside fork tyne under a log on a log truck and thinking how good would it be if i could simply tilt the machine so the fork could enter .
I just saw a thread in the mini exc. section that brought up a good question. With the mini's having a blade, would it be acceptable to use the blade to have something to push against? That would put you working over the drives. I guess the answer would depend on the how extreme the situation is, and if it was a last resort or not.
To reopen this can of worms the blade on the Kubuto exc is so far out in front, when trenching I dig over the track motors. ( do we have a smiley in the ducked position with his hands over his head ) No No NO I said ducked as in ducked down to avoid flying missiles.
Leave it to me to open the can!!!!!!!!!!!
The cable log loaders with Cat 245 carriers are not supposed to lift heavy loads over the sprockets if it can be avoided. They also say to never move the machine any distance with the sprockets forward. On the subject of things hitting the controls, the old Cat system, two pedals and a lever, seems like a safer system.
I remember when I was at construction college, there was a gang of trainees learning the ropes on the mini excavators. They were being taught to dig with the blade at rear. Probably for the same reason as you Rob, restricted view and probably restricted dig cycle too. Concerning my own demolition point of view for working over motors in everyday trivial stuff, I dont really follow any 'rules' like digging over idlers, lifting with motors at back etc. Just whatever way round the machine happens to be just get to work, seems a bit inefficient to me to skew the machine round 180 degrees just to stop some know it all wannabe digger driver from criticising. For jobs/tasks I class as special or requiring extra care I'll make an effort to get motors at rear. For example working on high or dangerous parts of a building so if something starts coming your way u know that back on the pedals IS back. On the high reach I'll have the motors at back too. More worms!..... Andy
kubota i can remember signs in older kubotas stating to dig with the blade at the rear wherever possible ,i nearly always have the blade at the rear on mini,s on long trenching runs i dig with the drives at the rear on larger machines on small sites where it is sometimes tight just to slew round i dont bother where they are cheers graham
Notice he's not working over the drive motors
Wow, that's incredible!
I don't know where Iron Horse found those pics , but whoever is running that thing AIN'T RIGHT!!!!!!!!!
You would want too make sure the front of the tracks were snug in the steps before letting go with the arm for the next bite . ointhead
Did you mean ...>NOT<?? Did you mean not ?
You ain't lyin' I got the heebbees just lookin at it.
Avoid final drive and track damage by ALWAYS digging over the Idlers. If the manufacturer reccommends it, that is proof enough for me. I learned around many Old Skool operators and over the idlers is how it's always been. Nothing like having a red faced grumpy old b*****d screaming at you for being ignorant. But I guess if he pays the maintenance bill, then he has every right to. Always dig over the idlers.
ALWAYS digging over the idlers Hi, Folks. I believe I've said this before but I'll say it again. I'm with those who advocate digging over the idlers in ALMOST all situations. One that immediately springs to mind as an exception is if you are digging your way back up any decent sort of slope. Then I would have the idlers uphill and do my digging over the sprockets for the simple reason that the load is then on the sprockest and track chains in the way that it was designed to be, with the sprockets pulling on the bottom of the track chain. This leaves all the slack up on top where it is meant to be instead of bunched up between the sprocket and the first bottom roller as it would be if the sprockets were uphill. The other factor in this situation is that because the ground is sloping down away from the tracks, loose material is not so likely to roll against your sprockets and drive motors if you do have the sprockets downhill when digging back uphill. Bench-loading is another possible exception, where you are digging your next bench alongside yourself as you dig away the bench that you are currently sitting on. Sometimes in such situations it is just too awkward, time-consuming, or both. to turn the undercarriage around at the end of the bench so that you can dig back the other way on your new bench with the idlers at the 'sharp' end. Having said all of the above, I'm still not going to turn my whole undercarriage around just to avoid digging over the sprockets for a few bucketfuls. Somebody compared excavator tracks to 'dozer tracks re operating in reverse. Let's try to keep comparing apples with apples here. Dozers do their heavy pushing travelling forward with the sprockets driving at the rear of the tracks, pulling the track chain through under the track frame and keeping the slack up top where it belongs. They reverse with the sprockets pulling across the top 'cos, unless they are backing up an incline, there is little load on the system and thus less potential for wear. It is sometimes difficult to make 'hard-and-fast' rules in any sort of work as there may be situations where the 'ROOLS' simply don't work.
I see you've met Dwan! :lmao
Actually, Never have, but know who he is. He knows my old boss, and I am sure would know who I am talking about if I mentioned "Mean Gene". As far a Dwan, Anyone I ever met that knows him, has always had good things to say about him. From what I see of him around town, he keeps to himself and seems to stay busy enough.
I was just kidding about that. I couldn't help myself. I didn't figure you were talking about Dwan.
BIG Digger I guess it isn't DIGGING, but the have it turned around that way... http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1426643710065476939qirxSc
Nice! That thing is huge. Guess I should have changed my wording in the previous post. Deas plant worded it much more correctly. In my mind, I was refering to the bulk of the digging. Obviously a guy is not going to turn the machine around on a bench, but for instance if I am digging a ditch or a large core out, I will turn the machine around if needed when I plan on digging in the same direction all day. Rather than just digging how the machine is facing when I get in it. Also, when traveling for any length, I will run with the idlers forward, this is especially important if your on a POS where it is not uncommon to lose a track. We had an old EX700 that would lose a track about every couple weeks. It seemed when the guy running it, traveling with the idlers in the rear, it would climb off the sprocket:Banghead
Years ago when I was logging, we had a Bucyrus-Erie 30B that was rigged up to use for a yarder. The tracks were always loose and sloppy. OOPs. Keep the cranes out of this excavator category. It was just the 'necessary' thing to do to have one guy on each side anytime we were moving it to watch the tracks and sprockets and idlers continuously for any indication that they were attempting to abandon ship. It was just so much easier to back up and re-direct than to have to PUT the track back on.
Digging sprockets forward I think Deas Plant has the right train of thought on this subject.When I started operating excavators it was on old Poclain RC-200's and a Cat 235 32K series. As we were mainly on sewer/watermain work,you needed all the stability and counterweight possible.Not to mention visibilty was an issue when digging at deeper areas or around existing utilities.I cringe when I see operators with sprockets forward for any other reason than accesibilty,or to level off a working pad.Thats the way it is to me anyway.Digging stresses over final drives for prolonged periods will compromise sprocket,chain and final drive life.There are not to many new machines if any with dozer style final drives as in the old Poclains and Cat machines(D-7 size in 235's if I remember correctly).
They say not to dig over motors, but if you are digging pipe and you have a 10 ton stone box behind you that you are always moving and picking up over the drive motors. that gotta due some damage.
And there is also less wear on the drive sprockets.
Gday everyone.Thought i might chuck my two bobs worth in.I work at a Copper/Gold mine in South Australia operating a Leibherr 996 excavator.Regarding travel motors,the only time i will have the motors forward is walking off a bench(with a 30 degree ramp),digging ore as to not mess up our markup and taking out your corner after cutting a bench or picking up your tail in a double bench setup.Other than that its all over the idlers,stability,wear and tear etc. Cheers Leeroy.
Welcome to the forum!!! Any chance we could see some pics or video of that awesome machine that you run?
Yeh no worries i would if i could.It says i cant post attachments yet.
you can now go for it!
have a lovely pic to explain all but for the third night running I cant upload them
Reuben, you are correct in every sense of the word, however, a dozer does 90% of it's workload whilst traveling forward, PULLING the tracks underneath the undercarriage. Back dragging, reverse ripping, or any other kind of weird things operators do with dozers doesn't hold a candle to pushing a fully loaded blade out of the bank. Everyone else, you guys have thousands of right answers that I fully agree with and put in place as safety measures and good practices while I'm working as well as having anyone else work for me... "Work and travel with the idlers forward today, or work your way towards traveling home for the day. You pick."
Heres a few pics.
Post number 11 from the "RUBBISH" poster .
hhmmm when we dig long sewer or water trenches ill put the idlers in front. but when we are digging a 40 by 60 foundation on a 50 by 100 lot i really dont bother to make sure its right. we got 11,000 hours out of our sprockets and chains on the e120b, 315l and 320l. the machines have been in every type of site from ledge to sand and digging out ponds .the uc was replaced because it simply wore out,,, never have had any final drive damage.and i know cat says to dig over the idlers.and i understand why but unless your on some serious ground all the time i really dont think it matters that much . from what ive seen the machines are pretty worn down by 15000 hours but they still track fine. i can see how rocks falling on the sprocket can be more pricey than idlers but i think the hype is overkill.
It was just YESTERDAY that my foreman decided that he could load the ADTs (loose topsoil/no digging effort) more effeciently than I could with our 345BL... he reposition the hoe so that he could track his way across the berm in one straight line, HOWEVER, his longest reach and greatest load was when he was reaching (way) out to load the truck while perpendicular to the track carriage. About ten minutes later while I was farting around on the pan, I looked up on the berm only the see that Mr. Foreman had found out the hard way why I had strategically posistioned my drive motors BEHIND me, as to add to the counter-weight, while reaching way out with a fully loaded bailing bucket. Sure... it took me a little longer to reposition myself and get 'seated' for the next couple truck loads... but it took a lot longer to figure out how to get the hoe's bucket out of the back of the truck and it's tracks back on solid ground (the hoe tipped off the berm, it was a long ways down, and the hoe couldn't simply push itself back down like everyone is imagining). I laughed for quite some time, then loaded trucks for the rest of the day while I believe the foreman went to go get some fresh underwear
I don´t know about the rest of you all, but if I can´t dig over the drive motors.....I don´t feel like I´m working.
how many scoops can you load one of those bad boys with?
Can this information about digging on the wrong end be found in any books or OEM publishings? I would imagine its really bad to dig over just one motor then.
Yep, it can be found in the operation and maintenance manual.
Now it would show my age if i said i learnt on a RC 200, GC 120 , LC80 and small TSC Poclain........ Memories Now one of the main reasons for not digging over the track motors was that the track drive motor were exposed on the inside of the track frames an were subject to being knocked of hence the recommendation of the manufacture was not to dig over the rear. a lot of the other reasons mentioned are correct as well.
Leroy, That's a bigun! And right hand steer too. She would be great on British roads.
I drive big and small ex800_5 385 down to tb008, I love 13 and 20 toners. Live the hitachi 120 , 220,300,400,700 dash 1 best built machines ever in the wirld way ahead of cat, cost less to run and dont break down every time you need them. However this digging over the idler will stand on a larger machine say over 300 and upwards, but with anything under 30 ton its a load if crap, if your clearing bushes and trees, let it b ev withan ex60 ,120 or 200 your going to be using full swing 360 thats why you have it, and yes a 60is big enough for the job if your an operator amd not a talker, if your in soft ground you want your motor under the cab, atleast if the machine nosedives the idler is up an d there is no fear if a track popping off under water,peat,with the root oa tree or something etc etc,,, as for bringing a tree in to the cab , please sir stop driving, your the reason the body shop is flat out straitening cabs and panels anspraying, but for bigger machines rockbreakers are ment to be operated infront of idlers upti 22.5 degree angle slewing left or right, same dir rippers ananyone qithan t cop on knows thet loading rock or digging muck ,you dig straight ahead and load at 90 or 180 its common sense. If you dont know this your not a machine operator or owner.
I drive big and small ex800_5 385 down to tb008, I love 13 and 20 toners. Live the hitachi 120 , 220,300,400,700 dash 1 best built machines ever in the wirld way ahead of cat, cost less to run and dont break down every time you need them. However this digging over the idler will stand on a larger machine say over 300 and upwards, but with anything under 30 ton its a load if crap, if your clearing bushes and trees, let it b ev withan ex60 ,120 or 200 your going to be using full swing 360 thats why you have it, and yes a 60is big enough for the job if your an operator amd not a talker, if your in soft ground you want your motor under the cab, atleast if the machine nosedives the idler is up an d there is no fear if a track popping off under water,peat,with the root oa tree or something etc etc,,, as for bringing a tree in to the cab , please sir stop driving, your the reason the body shop is flat out straitening cabs and panels anspraying, but for bigger machines rockbreakers are ment to be operated infront of idlers upti 22.5 degree angle slewing left or right, same dir rippers ananyone qithan t cop on knows thet loading rock or digging muck ,you dig straight ahead and load at 90 or 180 its common sense. If you dont know this your not a machine operator or owner.
We rebuild only finaldrives, prodominently hydash drives. to keep it brief and clarify when digging over finals when the boom is perpendicular to the tracks yes it can degrade the main bearing races quicker by point loading the balls and with constant rocking motion wear vertical lines on the two races eventually going through the hardening.When you ask the customers they'll admit it too, as they don't all come in with this type of wear on the main hub bearings.It has meant replacement of an otherwise o.k. bearing for some people as running them again means the balls are running over "ruts" and they won't last long, so seeing it first hand from a repair point of view it does leave a definite signature on main hub bearings over time.
I was told you should dig over the idlers, 20 years a ago I was laying pipe, the operator thought otherwise the fairly low hour JD excavator he was operating had sprocket damage. See told ya? Our Takeuchi excavator have the blade in front of the idlers so we often dig over the sprockets. Maybe rubber tracks help?