I am curious if 4 in 1 loader buckets hold up as well as standard buckets when using breakout force prying etc. Obviously they are more capable but are they worth having or are they trouble?
I was told that if you have one and get used to it you'll never have anything else. They should last and work just as good as a regular bucket as the breakout force is from the bucket cylinders and engine HP is it not?
No problem with the 4 in one. Once you have one you will wonder what you did without it. They dig just as good plus there is nearly no end to what they can be used for. The only thing you need to watch for is if you grab large items with only one side of the clam, you can bend the jaw. It will take a lot, so you don't need to baby it, but keep an eye out for it twisting as you grab.
The other downside is the weight, they're heavier so you lose a little lift capacity. I feel the benefits far outweigh the quirks
My biggest concern I guess has been prying or clamping and lifting heavy at the center, How easy is it to bend the bottom of the bucket center?
I have found that the bottom lip is tough - the guy on the seat is the biggest risk to its integrity. If you don't loan your machine or let the $12/hour help run it, it will last. 4-in-1 buckets, as they are heavier, also have less capacity. If you move a lot of light materials, like snow, you may want to get a second bucket for those materials. Moving 1 cubic yard at a time gets old pretty quick when the snow buckets are 2.5 cubic yards.
I have one on my 250c and love it. That said, anything with more moving parts has the potential of giving you more trouble. Last summer I did manage to tear a line off one of the clamshell cylinders while pushing some trees (operator error lol). The 250c (47,000 lbs) has very powerful breakout power and I've not been easy on mine without any trouble except damaged teeth so I don't think you will have much trouble there. A solid bucket would probably be a better choise if you are only using you machine to load as you do lose a little cap. If your is a farm machine or you do a lot of differant things with yours you will wonder how you ever got along with out a 4n1 before.
I used to feel that these contraptions were a waste of metal, but...having one on my 426C has been the best thing since quick change buckets! Now of course I'd never have one without a 4 in 1. As correctly stated above by JDOFMEMI, if you grab a heavy item, like a log on one side only, you can twist the jaw so the darn thing doesn't close tight after. I am speaking from first hand experience. I had to regrab it with the other side to straighten it back out. LAL! (live and learn) It is great for trimming all the overhanging branches and those nasty rose bushes that get in your way, and you can pick up just about anything with them. Also great when loading dump trucks with heavy items as you can place the bucket quite low and open the bucket to release things. Yes, capacity is less and there are times when I pine for the gp bucket for faster loading...but those thorn bushes sure come out in a hurry with the 4in1.
mate be careful who you get the bucket from there is some real crap ones on the market place at the moment got a few mates who brought some cheap ones and they had no end of troubles with them , but if you get a good one they are a good useful tool
yeah totally agree with Curbster they bend a lot if you grab something heavy
Never had a problem bending the clam on my 580sk, only problem I had was finding a replacement metal hydraulic tube for the clam that corroded due to salt. I have two metal beams that I use to make a light duty folk lift —
yep, beats getting out of the seat to shovel the last of material into a regular bucket for sure!
4-in-1 buckets are great We've got about 2,000 hours on the 4-in-1 clamshell bucket on our CAT 420D and, I have to say that, it's become irreplaceable. We operate the machine in managed forest land -- on the side of mountain -- so the terrain is quite rocky. Consequently, the clamshell has been used extensively for grabbing and moving rock and boulders (that will fit in the bucket). I just moved one yesterday, in fact, that had the rear end of the machine feeling a bit light. The point is that our CAT 4-in-1 clamshell bucket has been put through some rough duty indeed and it still functions flawlessly. If you find a high quality product, I wouldn't hesitate in attaching it to your machine.
In the UK you'll see a backhoe loader without a 4-in-1 about as often as you'll see a flying pig. Same on drotts (as us limeys call track-type loaders). The first one I operated in the 70's had a GP bucket, but since then I've never seen one on site without a 4-in-1. When you've grown up with them, you don't notice the loss of capacity, and I can't imagine not having one. Also in nearly 35 years I've never managed to twist, buckle or otherwise damage a 4-in-1, despite using them on almost every type of work imaginable on a site.
I'd get one, but there $4000.00 at the dealer. Haven't been any used ones kickin around. Where are other places that I could check for one, new or used decently priced? All I would need to get is front hydraulics in the front so my machine can run the clamshell. I need a standard one with 4 regular mounts on the bucket, because I don't have a quick attact coupler. Any help would be appreciated, case 580sm
Up until I started were I am 4-5yrs ago I never had a 4n'1. Had use them and learned alota tricks. Now after having one on 2 580's I'd never go with out. Do all utility work in the streets and for that a 4n'1 is priceless. It's all in the operator. Charge to hard into a pile of rock or hot top and the back of the bucket will be dented up real quick. Pull to hard on the lip or lift with it sooner or later end up with a nice bow in it. Use it properly it'll last no problem. I like the case 4n'1 the best but it could be beefed up a bit more.
The only problem I have had with my 4 in 1 is the person operating it! I guess maybe I tend to put more thought into how I approach something I am lifting that is extremely heavy. That might be because it is mine and I will ultimately pay the price but even if I am operating a rental or my companies I try to keep from causing any unnecessary stress to prevent damage.
Snapped another one I snapped the clamshell off the 426B(7400 hrs) loading out jeffrys pine stumps day before yesterday. I should have been using the trackhoe but there were too many trees and overhead wires. Crap!
machine dummies are alive and well all over the world sadly. I watched a guy trying to use the forks as a "new way" to remove a big tree stump. Result, bent front bucket,bent forks and the oak stump looking much the same as before. Another guy using a 12" bucket, tried to reposition the machine by lifting and slewing as normal but he lifted the machine on the bucket teeth causing it to collapse as he moved. So many stories to tell over the years but I never wrote any down. Ah well
My 580e has done a lot of hrs and the 4 in 1 is still fine, like anything they must be good quality to last. for me for general purpose work if it did not have a 4 in 1 it would only be half a machine.
another plus just crossed my mind about the 4 in 1 debate, if you open the clam and drag through a heap of dirt, this loosens the material and also prevents any need for wheel spin ( which should not happen if the machine is being operated correctly)You will get less wear on your tyres if you use the 4 in 1 correctly.Many times you can grab more with the 4 in 1 than a standard GP bucket.Any 180 machine without a 4 in 1 is a waste of yard space in my opinion
Machine Dummy? I could be mistaken but I think I have just been refered to as a 'Machine Dummy". Could be I guess. But those stumps weren't going to grow legs and walk out of there by themselves. In hindsight I should have probably had an all terrain forklift sent up, but the stumps are gone and the job is progressing nicely. New clam from Cat was 1580.00 with freight from Denver. BFD. One other thing. If somebody is operating a backhoe on steep rocky ground, and they want to reposition using the back end, I would highly reccomend sticking your bucket teeth in good before you de weight off of the out riggers. Any operator would know what I am talking about. Just dont use junk buckets. I hope this contributes to the thread.
I was not referring to you as a machine dummy.The guy who collapsed the 12"bucket should have used the heel of the bucket before lifting the machine. When using the 4 in 1 clam always grab whatever you pick up in the centre, never one side.I apologise if I offended you in any way
what about some photos of these buckets in action? my 580K is supposed to come with one, but by the time i bought it, it was replaced with a conventional bucket. boohoo, by the sounds of things. it's really annoying trying to scoop up piles of branches, rocks, logs, all that loose or weird shaped stuff that isn't a pile of dirt.
all 180 machines in the UK come fitted with a 4 in 1 as standard, it makes jobs like you have described as easy as picking up a bucket of dirt and no need to keep jumping out of the machine to load the bucket, my advice is get a 4 in 1 pronto!
No offense taken. I think that steep,rocky wooded, remote terrain can make a machine dummy out of anyone at some time or the other. Mabey thats the reasoning behind those Canadian roadbuilder excavators.
Going to go look at a 580k and a 580sk to purchase. Both have the 4 in 1 buckets. I've never ran anything with a 4 in 1. What can they all be used for? Also can other items be ran off the hydraulics for it like skid steer attachments?
Hi I've been using 4in1 buckets now for 8 years and found I wouldn't use anything else the last one I got is also power tilt built by norm engineering on my deere 329D no teeth just bolt on cutting and they will handle what your machine will handle they do bow on the floor when picking up big lumps of concrete or heavy stumps but open and close a few time it seems to come back only way to go.
I had a JD 455D for many years with a 4 in 1 bucket and grouser tracks on it in the woods. Switched the bucket back and forth with a 16" feller buncher head. That was probably the handiest machine I ever owner. I cut thousands of cords pulpwood and built many roads and landings with it, and the bucket held up great. On the JD bucket, to fine grade you set the bucket down on the stops with the lip open, and simple use the tilt function to fine adjust the cutting depth. Works great with the loader arms solid as a rock, setting on the stops.
So you can open and grade with them, use as a normal bucket, pick stuff up, and possibly run hydraulic attachments off the valve for the bucket? Also for picking stuff up is it ok to pick stuff up as long as you can grab it your good? Also can you say scrape a pile of pea gravel into a pile with it open then just close the bucket and then you should have a full bucket right?
As I posted before, we use the CAT 4-in-1 bucket that came on our 420D for all manner of work. We grade with it, we move boulders around with it, we grab piles of forest debris with it and, believe it or not, we open it up to assist with fork duty (so we can see the tips of our forks) and … oh, yeah … it's pretty great for moving logs around, as well. After running other machines that have regular buckets attached, I'd have to say that the 4-in-1 is a bona fide advantage. It simply makes your machine much more versatile.
I use it open a little when triming so it doesn't dig in I never have use for standard buckets there a got waste of A good machine
It's pretty hard to clam a full bucket but it does work well to clean up the end of the pile without pushing it all over creation.
Sounds cool. I hear forks mentioned a lot. Are we talking about clamp on forks or?? Btw both 5 he 580k and the 580sk with the extenda hoe I'm going to look at have the 4 in 1 buckets.