Which control pattern are you accustomed to? Why did your company start using the pattern it does? (I've got a theory about this... ) Cat=SAE (stick/swing left, boom/bucket right) JD=ISO (boom/swing left, stick/bucket right) Any other control patterns used that differ from these?
For me i use the JD controls.Thats what i learned and has been the easys for me.Use to have old Cat 225 that i changed the hoses to run like Deere. Glad they have the pattern change controls now.Safer! So each his own. Having learned the Deere,it have always seemed the easys for me.I like the stick and bucket being on the same level. Just pull the stick,back and curl the bucket while raising the boom ,then swing and around you go.Nothing to it!!!!!!!!!!:drinkup :usa
The biggest reason, why I like the cat pattern, is that's what I started on when I started running excavators, cat equipment was very popular in my area. My own opinion is I still think it's crazy they didn't standardize it years ago, I'm sure there has been a lot of accidents because of it.
CAT controls here, it's just what I learned on first.
Cat controls its what I learned on too but not on Cat equipment thou. Most operators in my area are Cat controls the old timers are Deere.
CAT v. JD controls It is crazy that they haven't standarized it yet. But perhaps they never will because then CAT will no longer have a proprietary operating system that is patented and Deere the same.
Deere here. Almost killed a few guys when I tried to learn CAT. Takes me about an hour but I can go back and forth between the two now.
Cat Style Yep, Cat style. Why, you ask? I grew up on Case backhoes. You know, the three lever plus foot swing. With Case controls the right hand learns to operate the boom. So, it was a natural progression to Cat style, where the right hand still operates the boom and the left hand moves the dipper. I cannot find the ground with Deere style, but Cat style came natural, I had it mostly mastered in less than five minutes.
The ISO/SAE question rears it's ugly head once again... We've never officially settled on whether ISO and SAE are the right names for the two differnt patterns. Lots of discussion here, with the confusion about the names being discussed on the second page. For the purposes of answering the question here though, "Cat" and "Deere" will serve the purpose. I can run both. jumping from one machine to another, except that the Deere pattern has to be on a backhoe, and the Cat pattern has to be on an excavator. Switch the pattern on the excavtor, and I'm all screwed up for about an hour. :Banghead (Although it's been a while since I was on a Deere pattern hoe, and I've been spending lots of time on excavators, so this may not be as true as it once was. I could very well be rusty on Deere.)
I am a Deere guy, our new 410-G has a switch to change it over, so when I grease it I extend the hoe in "Cat" It's weird, I have to be in a happy mood to play with it or else I get frustrated easy. Cat=SAE (excavator) Deere=ISO (backhoe)
{{ }} I see that this has been hashed out before.... and didn't realize there was a disagreement about what the definitions of SAE and ISO were. My theory is not too complicated. If your first joystick control machine was a JD backhoe, your company stuck with JD controls, and vice versa. I learned on Cat, and have had to convert twice since then. :Banghead It takes me a lot more than a few hours to get to the point I can fine grade again.
Im a Cat Man. Learned on the JD style, now all i Run is the cat style. Food For thought: With the Cat style, all the movements on the right stick are the same as a loader bucket: Up and down moves the bucket up and down, and left to right curls and uncurls it.
deere excavator controls are the same as cat. only the backhoes are iso.
Depends on which way you have it set up. They can be either way. Our Deere does NOT have Cat controls.
First excavator we ever used was a John Deere and I was only 9 and had never been on anything else, so learing the JD controls was simple, dad just turned me loose digging a large hole. However, we didn't own that mahcine, just rented, and it wasn't til a few years later that we aquired a 312 CAT with Cat controls and I just jumped in and did the same thing(didn't really remember the JD pattern) and thats all I have ran since. Was running our excavator with a breaker at a house basement project for another guy, who had a Case excavator that was set up on JD pattern. Well I tried to do some digging with that, lost cause, had to think way to hard. I would like to get to where I could operate both. Trbo
That's my thought as well... and I "grew up" on Cat controls ("grew up" because I turned on a machine for the first time, what, three years ago?). Even my first SSL run was a Cat, so I'm accustomed to it. Tried running a Bobcat with the Deere pattern and get really confused. Took a moment to get used to it enough just to move the boom and arm, let alone dig!
I run what we call "backhoe" which would be Deere?:beatsme The 2 Cat hoes we run have a pattern changer - just put it on the pattern you want to run. I have one operator that runs "excavator" controls and the rest run "backhoe". The new E series Cat backhoes have an electronic pattern changing switch on the side dash - pretty slick.
cat or deere We teach both. The quick change valve is nice though if you have a preference. Mine is Cat. I grew up on Cat and still think they're #1:usa
I have a Link Belt I run daily and it has the selector valve so you can run Cat or Deere, I run Cat. It even has the little selector card in the cab so you can look at it. I may just have to try changing the selector for something to do and try it.
I like the cat pattern. I like to be able to pick up the machine in my right hand(boom down) and use the left to swing when tracking/moving my hoe. I can turn so much cleaner by picking up/swinging. Anyone else do this?
Deere controls for me thanks. I started out on Bobcat minis so now I guess Im stuck with it. LOL. There was one time I was tailing the foreman for a big company around here, he let me on an E120B and I forgot to ask if there was a selector. Needless to say the ensuing half-hour made me look like a real A_s.:Banghead
I have to go with the Cat Style controls. Get me on a deere and I look like a fool trying to work. Its only two controls that are different but it makes the biggest difference to me. On the new guys I like to flip the control pattern around when their not there and watch them try to figure out what the hell is wrong!!
our deere hoes have cat control, and all our backhoes have deeres pattern. its not that hard to switch off
As I'd said elsewhere, I could jump back and forth between a Deere control backhoe, and an "excavator control" excavator, and never miss a beat, but if you changed the pattern on the excavator, I'd be all screwed up. Yesterday, I got on a CAT hoe, with the controls set to excavator, and had no problem at all. I don't know whether it was because it's been quite a while since I was on a hoe with Deere controls, or because the CAT had the pilot controls rather than the good old steel joysticks, but I was halfway surprised that my hands knew what they were doing....
I have a 315C L at home here I took from work for the weekend, to do another phase of my never-ending, lifetime project goal of completing a perimeter road around my 20 acres of virgin, wooded property. I loaded it and never noticed the control pattern, because I didn't have enough time to have it register between my ears. Once I got it off the trailer and went to do my first technical move, however, I was looking around to see if anybody was watching, because I was looking pretty stupid. Didn't take me 60 seconds to go fetch a 1/2" wrench, open the side panel and switch to normal Cat functions. Sat back down and it was poetry in motion from then on...A/C set at 65 degrees, favorite station on the FM...hated to see it get dark tonight. Tomorrow's another day though.
100% of the time, and I agree. Makes for a cleaner turn without tearing up sod, driveways, etc that way. Plus just something about being able to lift the boom while curling bucket, while crowding stick with the other hand makes for a smoother cycle when digging to precise grade, or even just raking material without penetrating the surface. Make sense, or not?:beatsme Never really put all that into words before till now...just always thought it all out to myself. Probably 'cause nobody would ever care. :laugh
Here are a few pictures I took from my machine showing the Cat and Deere controls and the switching control valve. Thought I’d share them just in case anybody did not know what the valve looked like. Also here are the control patterns. Mike
I Learned on John Derre controls but run Cat style more often now but still can pick up on John deere style real quick w/o a problem later Bulldog
I learned on right sided Koehrings and left sided Link-Belts. Now days I can run a number two garden spade with either Deere or Cat patterns. I do know I ran Drotts and Link-Belts with the so called Cat pattern long before Cats became popular in this area of the country.
Like many I started out on JD controls and now run Cat controls. I've noticed over the years that small contractors generally run JD controls and large outfits with union operators run Cat controls, I don't know if that is something the training centers teach or what. Guys who tell you they can only run Backhoe with JD and a excavator with Cat and can swith back and forth all day I don't buy it. How can having the the controls besides you vs. between your legs tell your brain which one to pull, I don't know. Its one or the other for me.
I run Cat controls, tried to run Deere on a backhoe a couple years ago. I figured it out after a while, but I wasn't nearly as smooth. I suppose after a day or two I could get decent with it. But, I wouldn't put any money on being able to grab a pop can with Deere controls in the future.
Cat vs John Deere I know it sounds like bs, but I also can switch from backhoe (jd) controls to excavator (cat) controls all day and there IS something about the cab swing vs just the boom. Not so much where the controls are located1
I guess you might have to use both. I got myself a cat skid steer and a hitachi track hoe.
swing and bucket curl are the same on both sets of controls, only thing dif is position of crowd and hoist.
I have not decided just got a machine that will do both and keep switching but find myself on "cat" more often:usa
Our 580 has Deere controls and our excavator has Cat. I couldnt switch for nothing. I learned that way because it was how my dad was although he learned on a 3stick case years ago and switch to deere when he bought a 2 stick machine. He learned cat on an excavator and kept it that way.
Deere controls on a backhoe, Cat on an excavator. Most backhoes i've operated have been JCB and in the UK they have the deere pattern but moving in a diagonal direction and not a straight cross. I can switch from one to the other but it has to be from excavator to backhoe. I've not operated a backhoe for a few years now though. I always thought that the cat pattern was the ISO pattern maybe i'm wrong.
Cat documentation and standards state that their excavator pattern is ISO. Thats about the only thing thats clear. The use of the term "Standard" by some manufacturer's causes confusion and we have, on this forum, manufacturer's pictures of their patterns, the same as Cat, stating that it is SAE. So its possible SAE = ISO and that Backhoe or Deere represents the common alternative. You can have a read as far as we got with this issue here: :beatsme
Welcome to HEF solar140! :drinkup
Ya know, that's probably the first question that should be answered on the Caterpillar forums, wherever they may end up.... :cool2
I do this a lot too. ITs a feature about an excavator that is great. Helps too if you're in a tight spot and can't do a gradual turn or need to line up with the cut or trench better. At least I think so, would you guys agree? PS: I have heard however that it's hard on the stick/boom joint, but I'm not sure if that's just for the really big hoes:beatsme
Since I started on a takeuchi mini that had CAT controls set up that's what I'm used to. Haven't really had a chance to run one with Deere controls for an extended period of time so I guess I prefer CAT controls. Also the boom with bucket makes the most since to me since most of the loaders I've run have that same set up.
Jim I do it just about every time I turn. I dont like sitting there with the tracks grinding over whats underneath when the time it takes to turn can be cut it half.
Cat controls. Had to run deere controls the other day and it was ugly.
Well I run cat controls. But even being young in age, and operating hours ( But getting higher ) I know how to run both. Takes a few minutes. But I can. Now for a short story. The other day we had a front left tire come off ( yes come off ) our 40 ton articulated truck. The owner was operating it when it happened. And from what he said something broke, it wasnt operator error. But we had a SMALL kubota farm tractor we used a boxscraper on on most jobs. To do touches here and there get close where we dont like to take the grader. Well it would barely budge it. Well right there beside us was a 311 ( may have been a 312 ) Cat excavator from another company. So my BOSS made the decision to crank it up and jump right in. We're not friends with this company at all... competition:Banghead so it was a HAVE to do decision. Well i know chris ( my boss/owner ) has over 12000 hours on various machines. ( and he is only 33 ) But yeah unlike me he grew up in a machine. Well he gets in and the CAT has JOHN DEERE controls. So everything is opposite. I see him having trouble and go over and ask him what's wrong. He says " *** is wrong with this thing " So rather than him giving me tips on running an excavator i got to tell him. " stick right boom left swing left bucket right " haha. He eventually made me operate it. Made me feel good to know. He later told me he was glad because otherwise he would have never got that tire off the ground. and on the truck. ( feels good to be in the machine, and not the one putting a chain around something. -Michael-
Funny thing about what you learned on..... For me I learned excavator (Cat) controls while learning to operate an excavator. What helped me out was relating a wheel loader control with the right joystick controlling boom and bucket. I then learned to operate a tractor loader backhoe with wobble sticks in a backhoe (Deere) pattern. That is the only way I can run a TLB now. Here is the funny thing, I can only run this pattern with a wobble stick and not with pilot controls. On a TLB with pilot/EH controls it has to be excavator (CAT) controls. Weird huh.....:beatsme
Im the same way, Deere in a 2 stick backhoe but Cat in a backhoe with pilots.
cat control Les fatigue Cat controls for me, push forward, pull back nice and smooth less fatigue
:beatsme Huh?? What do you mean?
the only difference between the 2 is the boom and dipper are oposite. but if you have been running one more than the other one will be easier because your mind is programed to reach for a certain lever. like me i like deere controls if i was brought up on cat i would probably be used to them .
KMS cat contrlos Hey Farm Boy Hey farm Boy, when you run cat controls as you start to move the controls, picture yourself on seat Two hands on controls pushing with both hand s forward move the boom down and dipper out preparing to load bucket pulling back with two hands brings them back the same way so its like a push and pull action , Try it when baling a large pile of dirt you will see what i mean I believe john Deere is one control forward and one control back , I could be mistaken though Been awhile since a ran JD controls , I would Definitely Go with Cat Controls , But don't get me wrong I now Guys That run them And They make those machines just about Talk, So your preferance Good Luck Most of the good Paying Bigger companies Run Cat controls KMS
JD controls are the same as Cat except that the boom and dipper are in opposite hands.
I started operating equipment 28 years ago, and today I am a Journeyman on just about any piece of equipment, with the exception of crane's and blade's. I first ran excavators in the mid 80's (Cat 235). Just like operating any piece of equipment, it's all about seat time. Nothing will give you the experience required to proficiently operate a piece of equipment than seat time. So I learned and became comfortable running Cat controls. Since then I have experienced Case, Ford and JD controls. I prefer the JD controls on a rubber tire Backhoe with wobble sticks, but since Cat introduced the pilot controls with the D series, the Cat controls were a natural for me. I switch between JD and Cat controls these days, just for a change in pace and to keep my skills sharp. I primarily only run my Cat 420E model these days, unless I have a mass excavation job to do. Looking into purchasing the new Cat 450E model. I know a contractor here in Phoenix that is doing field trail on 2 of the pre production models. Doesn't look much different that the 420/430E models, but man does it have power. I enjoy the variety and challenge a rubber tire Backhoe provides. Been playing in the dirt for a bunch of years now, and still wake up most mornings really looking forward to going to work. Guess I'm a lucky man. Happy Thanksgiving members. 'Tis the season to get chubby......
JD or Cat I run John Deere controls myself, It's just the type I started out with, it only takes me a couple hours to smoothly switch over to Cat though. I have noticed more and more big excavators are coming with a switch-over, or a valve that makes them universal so any operator can run that particular shovel. :notworthy
I need to change the hoses on a model 311 Cat to John deere controls. I understand they sell a kit but also as you said, that hoses can be switched. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Its pretty simple, under the cab, remove the pan and you will see the pilot lines at a manifold. the lines will have color markers on them. You simply remove 4 hoses and put them in different locations. Now its been a while since i did this so i don't remember the color so i will have to look at my note book at work tomorrow.
I can only run cat on an excavator, couldnt run deere to save my life. On a backhoe, I learned on deere controls and use to be able to run them. Ive been on a 580 case day in day out for over a year now, swear by 4 stick w/ foot swing, wouldnt go back to 2 stick. Odd part is, they sent us a 310E with a hoe ram deere controls, after a little while I could run it "ok", wouldnt dare try to dig main with it. Other day I hopped in a 310E with cat controls same thing barely "ok" with it. I know alota guys that run 4 stick can run cat fine. Me I feel totally outa place with either or on wobble sticks. Honestly dont care much for wobble stick controls in a backhoe at all any more. I guess if I was smart Id get with the times and go with pilots but wont give 4 stick up and Im 21.:beatsme
Swap the red to green and the green to red. swap the blue to orange and the orange to blue. this will make a Cat John Deere controls. this is assuming the machine doesn't have the pattern changer. on the early models this changer was put in all kinds of places so it may not be obvious.
Thanks a lot for the info, I appreciate it.
Pilots are for excavators. 4 stick/foot swing in a b-hoe all the way.
Recently on a PC450LC-8 I came across something which I have never seen before. Directly behind the operators cab on the right hand side was a small cylindrical valve with a lockable handle on the top. There were many pilot lines attached to this valve and from what I could make out (all the instructions were in Japanese) from the pictures; the valve was for changing the controls. There were more than 2 positions where the handle could be placed though, so it’s got me stumped. Any care to shed some light on this? I can get some photo's if need be.
That would be the adjustable manifold. It lets you change from ISO to SAE.
mlpruss88 I agree.
Sounds like a pattern changer except that he said that it has more than two positions. If it is a pattern changer what other patterns are out there (for wobble sticks)?
Even just a few years ago this Debacle Cat/Vs. Deere controls. used to be an excuse for rookie operators who did not know how to run either but would use the excuse to get enough seat time . if they were quick enough study they may not be found out. Now because of the switches they get the boot after the switch is turned lol. Unfortunately in our industry contractors have zero patience for the unexperienced. I personally was lucky and got a break from some real old almost retired guys years ago. funny i have seen countless college degree grads not make it. classroomtime is not the same as real world on the job craziness. nothin can prepare you for it unless youre thickskined and have done it.
This is a pilot control valve that directs hydraulic flow deferentially for each position to the main valve bank they usually include just cat and JD control patterns. I have seen manufactures that include four patterns (swing in right hand ect) if you know how the pilot system on new machines works this should be easy to understand. if not let me know I would be gladly explain.
We ran both but I'm better at the JD controls. I can jump from a Cat to a JD without problems but if I jump to the Cat from a JD my brain goes goofy for 5mins :tong. I learned on a awful UNI-Mog truck so I started all messed up.
I had a 321CLCR that was non-grey market that had 4 operating patterns on the pattern changer located in the floor board of the cab. I don't know how the other two positions operated, only used the Cat/JD positions.
We had a grey market komatsu that came with a different pattern. The left stick worked like this: forward + back = swing, left + right = dipper. Right stick: forward + back = bucket , left + right = boom. Very weird.
Have to change to cat. Controls.too old to do deere.i do like cat.thanks jim