just a quick question, at what range would you say a 19 yard scraper with fast moving farm tractor out preform a D8K with a Semi-U blade. What distance would the D8 still move more material? I always thought around 200-300 feet? We are filling in a bunch of big pot holes in land that the guy wants to sell for potato farming. the potholes are surrounded by big ridges or blow dirt because the potholes were once bushes, but we have knocked all the wood down and piled it.
Yair...Guday CatSkinner77v. We always used to reckon anything over a hundred yards was scraper dirt...if you had one. Filling holes on agricultural land you'll probably only want to take a shallow cut to get the dirt over a wider area so the scraper is probably the way to go.
Well, I would say it depends on whether or not you owned the scraper. If you own it, I would use the scraper for anything more than 100 ft or so. If you have to rent it, I would say useyour own D-8 up to 300 ft or so, then when it is tedious, bring in the scraper. Just my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation)
The other day I was doing some "quick stripping" at one of our smaller quarries. Just pushing stuff off into a pile, which I belive is already sold for fill. Pushing total distance about 200 feet and in the area I was it was no where near good for a scraper. However I've had lots of times I just push with the dozer and usually my scraper distance is the distance I look around at the project and say to myself..."dam I wish i had a scraper here for this." For years(40+) my family ran a very sucessful business with only 2 dozers and a self loading scraper. Renting was done when projects NEEDED a certain piece of equipment otherwise it was just make do with what you had. I guess today I see so many companines and people that they the ONLY way to do somthing is with a set machine and they can't see that you are able to do it with other things. Its a fine line between making do with what you have and spending hte money on another piece of equipment. Trbo
EZ TRBO, I have judged you to be among the best skinners on here and I have never worked for a contractor that owned just a few pieces of equipment. Having said that if I had been caught wearing out dirt I would expect to get a call to visit the project mgr. Another big influence is your budget. Every part of the project has an item number and an account. If you go over the budget you are going to hear about it. I have also been lucky and always had the equipment we needed to finish on time and that is a good feeling. EZ TRBO your last line says it all. Figure the cost of dozing the material and then figure the cost of hauling it. Which ever is cheapest is the way to go. The cost of moving the haul equipment in might make a long push look real good.
Got scrapers that get pulled with D7 and D8 here. Hook them up every time unless distance is really short. I would say 90% of the time the blades are off the Cats and pans hooked up. You can't push 11 yds at pass with a D7 or 20 with a D8.
Here's a twist on the question. When digging this pond earlier this year with the excavator, I temporarily piled about ten thousand yards of wet clay over an acre or so using a loader. The pile is about six feet high. The spot where it eventually should go was too wet to run in. Now that the clay has dried and the spot where it should go is dry, I'm moving the clay the rest of the way with the loader. As I'm tediously hauling bucket after bucket, I have lots of time to wonder if a D7 would push this more quickly than the loader can carry. (The clay still would be too wet and soft for a scraper, but a dozer could work in these conditions) The Cat 966C carries 4 or 5 yards per bucket. The distance to move the material is from 100 to 200 yards. Mostly, the loader runs in second gear, with two to three minutes per round trip. Any opinions?
Loader going to be best bet. Now, if you had a Cat No. 70 pan to put behind the D7.................................whole different thing.
I think a dozer will work best for what I am gonna do, I was just asking to see what different ideas were out there, I always thought 200-300 feet was dozer dirt. anything after that is scraper dirt. Swamp Dog, I used to strip gravel pits with a 980 cat loader, talk about time consuming, now we just a D8K with a U-blade to move 6-10 feet of stippings off the top of the gravel. Sometimes pushing 200 yard slots, its all sandy blow dirt, and you can hardly get a 2/3 of a load in a scraper, the stuff just won't load. The potholes we are filling with the dozer are of the same dirt, very fine sandy blow dirt, you can carry a huge blade full with the dozer, but its hard to get a decent load in the scraper. Especially with a rubber tracked farm tractor pulling it hahaha, i hate rubber tracked machines trying to do construction work. Greg, what kind of D7 are talking about? the newer Highdrives would push a fair amount, but the older E, F, G etc i think are fairly useless compared to a D8 of the same era. We don't own a D7 for that very reason, they aren't a D6 and they aren't an 8, just some half way breed machine haha.
D7E and G. Also a D8K. D7 E and G are two fantastic tractors in my book while the F's left a lot to be desired. As I said before, why push it that far when you can pick it up and haul it. Pulling the pans we get to third gear as soon as loaded with faster ground speed than you can get pushing. And to beat a dead horse, a D7 won't push 11 yards and a D8 won't push 19. We notice fuel consumption is lower when pulling pans too rather than pushing.
:usaOh, one other thing. What would you expect a D7 to be other than something in between a D6 and a D8. For the work I do around here lots of times a D6 would be a bit small and my D8 is too big.
Greg, could you please tell me what sort of work is too small for a D6, and too big for a D8? I have done alot... and I mean ALOT of work with D8's, cut and fill grades, cut slopes in retention ponds, leveled scraper runs, clear land, push gravel for roads. I have never come across a job that was just right for a D7 but too big for a D8. i find with those D7's. when it comes time to really move material around they just don't have the grunt like an 8 does. Rightfully so I will add, they are a considerable size smaller. I clear lots of land, and I wouldn't want anything other than 8K's for handling a thick stand of 24 inch diameter oaks, or an 80 acre bush of 120 foot tall cottonwoods. Sometimes I find myself wishing our D9H in there, but its a pan pusher and doesn't go to the bush. As for cleaning up after, I have 2 destec rakes that fit to the front of the D8s, and it makes a beautiful clean up job, cut and fill stump holes with ease.
Thanks for the comments. It sure does make things easier when having all of the right equipment and having operators that know how to use them. But somtimes you just have to make do with what you have. Better go move some dirt now. trbo
hey there 77v. Maybe I should say D7 size better suited for D7. Pushing over 24 inches oaks? Leave my D7 home and take my d8K every time. 120 ft tall cotton woods? Bring my 8K leave my 7G at home every time. I do a lot of scraper work with pull type pans behind both my 7G and 8K. For a smaller job, like a 16 feet wide agricultural water way D7 with No. 70 pan is perfect. Two passes wide down the middle and one more on each side for the slopes. My No. 80 cuts wider than that and a D6 with a No. 60 would be to narrow. Bring material to a tight spot, D7 with No. 70 will turn shorter than D8 with No. 80. Get into soft ground like I do too and D7 with No. 70 will float better than D8 and No. 80 because of weight. Don't get me wrong. Love my D8K and No. 80 to death but there are times when my D7G with No. 70 works great. Also on a smaller job of say 700 to 1000 yards it is easier to move D7 and No. 70 over D8 and No. 80. Bigger scraper job, sufficient room to work, heavy grubbing, My D8K goes every time. No doubt about it My 8K with 300 horse and 60 odd thousand pounds will work rings around my 7G with 200 horse and 44 odd thousand pounds. But I have found them both to be very useful and profitable.
Can you tell me how long it might take for a round trip of 200 yards with a D8K? And about how many yards would you move in each trip? Thanks.
18 to 20 yards a pass. third gear is about 7 mph. Biggest factor depends on the load time depending on the material working in. It runs the gammit here from top soil, clay, shale, rock etc. here.
Greg You must have some really good dirt to get 18 to 20 yards with a D-8K Swampdog Out here in the west, our dirt won't stick together enough to get that much. I have measured it many times on jobs I have done over the years, and the best I got with a D-8K with a U-dozer was 13 cy. In those sandy conditions, if you slot doze properly, you can get that. For a project average figure a little less than that, because every pass will not be like the best one. For cycle time on a 200 yard, or 600 ft push, I would say 4 to 5 minutes, but I have only pushed that far a few times long ago before I had any scrapers, so I could not swear to it. Our dirt and rock has enough sand in it, and is usually dry enough that you can't get thos huge blade loads like they can in midwest topsoil.
We run the gammit of top soil, clay, shale and get into the limestone too. Not much for sand in the immediate. I am not pushing that, that is what my Cat No. 80 scraper will take. Have an "S" blade for the D8 so I would not even try to push 200 yards as there would be practically nothing left behind the blade after that far. Like I said above, 18 to 20 yards heaped to heck in the pan. Third gear all the way for top speed, drop to gear 1 or 2 for spreading depending on material, load in 1 or 2 depending upon conditions. If loading gets tough push with D7 E or G to speed up the cycle.
Greg, we farm 5000 acres on top of construction, and I can you right now that a 463 (CAT 80) works the best for cutting ditches, A: it can carry more for hauling long distances into the low holes, B: i like my ditches nice and wide with very little slope for growing soybeans and any other low growing crops because you have to flex head them to harvest them. C:We havn't used a D8 and scraper on the farm for years, wayyyyyy to slow, hook her up to a Case Quad Trac farm tractor now for doing that kind of work, load at about 7 mph and haul to the low holes at about 15 mph. (scraper starts bouncing if you go to fast with a load on, snapped wheel axles doing that)
How you like your ditches as you say and how I am allowed to build them are two different things. SCS and NRCS design them and dictate how they are to be constructed. I don't farm at all so have no need for big wheel tractors. I get into lots of things where wheel tractors don't work. In the shale and rock I would eat tires like a kid can go through candy. Speed wise D8 and D works here because my hauls are all fairly short. My hauls are usually short enough that I couldn't get to 15 MPH with anything but I can get to 7 MPH with D8. Also when I get into wetlands restoration tires don't go either.
Greg, where bouts in Wisco are ya if i may ask.... SW here. Trbo
so you run your D8 in 3rd gear on a regular basis? haha thats a no no around my outfit. but thats just me.
EZ, southwest here. 77V, When running empty pulling a pan no problem. Loaded, watch he oil temperature. Like i said before, the blades are off my Cats 90% of the time pulling pans. With the blades on and pushing never get past 2nd.
hey CatSkinner77V.. I would like to see video of your quad loading that scraper at 7mph! Do you have any up on youtube? Good luck with crops this year..