May I ask a question of the experts here, please? I do a lot of small clearing around my 150-acre farm, and some light grading, cleaning up fence lines and trails, and such. Very seldom contract work, but I do have other farmland and timberland as well. Right now, I have a PC200 excavator with a thumb, an old JD 455G track loader, a small dump truck, and a compactor. Also, a tractor with a bush hog. I love the JD loader, but it gets frustrating sometimes pushing up large brush piles since it is so small. I am considering getting a 30k lb dozer like a JD 700K or Komatsu D51PX, and maybe selling the loader. I can grade and smooth up pretty good with the track loader, but I have never run a dozer. Sometimes I can’t get the excavator back in the woods to cut ATV trails so I clear with the loader in the woods most of the time. Do y'all think a Dozer in that size range would be good for clearing, or should I get a 953 loader? I'm afraid I would be annoyed by limbs scraping down the sides of such an expensive machine. I often reach up with the loader to snap off limbs hanging over the trails. We are also going to be putting in a 1-acre pond soon, that I will grade myself. Thanks for your help!
953 hands down for what you want to do. If I only had one machine to put food on the table it would be a 953 trackloader.
I appreciate the reply sir. I have been wondering what a small dozer is like in the woods, I just haven't had the opportunity to try one out.
You're welcome. And a late Welcome to the Forums! Well I have a D5GXL and a 953C that I have used to clear for geotechnical drill rigs. The rigs are mounted on a single axle truck for perspective so the roads are wide enough to drive on. I would take the loader over the dozer everyday for clearing trees and making trails. It's so much easier to put the trees and brush where you want them. To make a fair comparison a 953 is much larger than a D5 and your 455. We have a next Gen D3 but it doesn't go in the woods.
Such a situation close to mine. We got a D5H… and we run a farm. The farm just have some cattle and Cork trees. Before we got the dozer I thought of a 953 too, but then I realize we have a lot of work for dozing and specially pulling the heavy duty harrow. Actually there is always dozing to do around the estate…. After 3 years I never felt the need for a loader…. As we haven’t load anything. Other factor to consider is maintenance and consumables, besides parts availability, I would never recommend a Komatsu in that sense, CAT has parts everywhere for cheap. Maintenance in a dozer is much simpler and cheaper than in a loader, or maybe I’m wrong but having to deal with a hydrostatic system is a no go for me. good luck
What he said! Also a new large compact track loader could move brush around fast using a grapple bucket. If you pull up the trees with your excavator. The new tl12v2's can do a lot of work and still be moved with a f450. The hydraulic functions and machine speed are fast and they can carry big logs. For plain dirt moving and stumping the the 53/63 will smoke it. The 53 and 63 will also make a large brush pile quick. I did not see what area you are in but I have seen a few nice 963 loaders online up for sale for fairly decent prices lately.
What is your location and terrain? If it's fairly flat staying with a larger track loader may be fine. If it's steep and cutting in trails involves benching out along hillsides I greatly prefer a dozer. With that being said, I personally think a dozer with a 6 way blade would round out your equipment fleet better than a track loader. The track loader and excavator overlap in a lot of areas, whereas a 6 way dozer will greatly speed up shaping and finishing and is still plenty capable for light clearing. I use my dozer in the woods all the time, a set of limb risers and screens takes care of those branches.
Im my experience a 953 sized loader works very well cutting in roads on a steep side hill. You can dig into the high side of the bank and build the low side out. But that's why they make all these different kinds of machines.
You can dozer with a track loader its hard to load a truck with a dozer. The ditches end up a bit wide. But it will do anything. If it makes that clank clank sound when moving its a maintenance queen. With proper maintenance the hydro is every bit as fine as a power shift. They all break
A track loader will do most things very well, a dozer can only push and rip. Tyler d4c is right on point.
I think a track loader twice the size of the JD you have would surprise you with how much more it could do. The hydostats are also a lot more productive. You'd get twice the size and 4 times the production.
Man, I really appreciate all the replies. Loading the dump truck is mostly a non issue because I can use the excavator for that. I really was looking forward to being able to tilt a blade when grading for the first time in my life, lol. A 953 would be awesome, I wonder why they are just not popular any more? I guess they are hard to grade with since you can't see the teeth. It took me years to get good at grading with the 455. I can only imagine how nice it would be too look down and see that cutting edge on a dozer.
For 30 years I ran mostly dozers of all sizes. I also ran track loaders but not nearly as much as dozers. In your situation I would prefer a 953. Caterpillar is still selling them. I think CTL's cut into a lot of the track loader sales. Just a guess. You don't need to see the teeth on a track loader to do finish grading. You will learn from the feel of the bucket contacting the ground and looking at the position of the bucket from the seat. The same is true for a dozer. The tilt and angle blade capability's of a dozer is something you should consider in your choice. IHHO.
Track loaders are still popular here in north central AL. Most residential lots and basements are cut out with one. They work well for basements here since all are walk outs of some sort.
Interesting how location matters. I don't know when I have last seen a track loader up here, anywhere, and I have never heard of anybody digging a foundation with one.
I can see the potential of these machines; but in BC they are exceedingly rare. I have never actually seen one operating. I do see the odd, really old one parked in a farm.
The whole PNW is that way. Nobody has any in the Seattle area. I don't see them out on jobs either. The pits have rubber tired loaders. It's really funny that way, around here. It gets done with an excavator about 90% of the time. I don't care what it is!
I'm not sure where you're at in WI but I don't see many beyond the SE part of the state. I'm just south of the border in IL and track loaders are everywhere. I have a 953 and while running it one day I realized I can think of 11 other track loaders just amongst friends and acquaintances in my immediate area.
There's several lower hour 953's and 963's coming up in the Nisku RB auction. Mostly D series if I recall. Track loaders are still common here. As for grading, if the return to dig is working makes it easy to have the bucket level for grading.
You know the capabilities of a track loader, a 953 would be similar but faster. I’d say rent a dozer with a 6 way blade and try it, you’ll know if its the right machine or not. I’m a big fan of track loaders for thier versatility, but since you already have an excavator I think it is a little redundant. The popularity of excavators has cut into the 953/963 market, skid steers cut into the market for the small ones. An excavator and a 6 way dozer is a hard combo to beat IMO.
I am Northern WI.
Funny, Charlie Abbott was a good friend. He got into the excavation business before an excavator was a thing. His choice was not Caterpillar, all his tracked machines were IH. His choice was the 175, (1.75 yard bucket. Charlie had a dozen or more 175, ranging from the 175 model, through several letter suffixes, some Dresser, not IH. Only machine he cleared land with. Last year I asked his younger brother how many he still has? "Just two" he said. I've since counted four still in his possession. Might be two in daily use.
I will confess I imagined a dozer as laying a perfectly smooth surface. I bought one. I lay a rough surface except when smoothing out processed material. Plowing over roots, stubble & tree debris. I do find frozen ground to be the perfect opportunity to smooth it out. Frozen ground I can shear off stubble big as 2" diameter like a razor on a face.
Yes sir, I agree. I was just speculating that if you put a brand new person, who has never run either one before, on a track loader and a dozer, he might be able to learn to finish grade with a dozer quicker due to being able to see the cutting edge and the ability to tilt the blade. Maybe that's why the track loader is less popular? I know my Dad has more trouble than me grading with the loader.
I think this is great advice. Although I am somwhat experienced with earthmoving in general, I obviously am ignorant to the capabilities and ease/difficulty of use of a dozer other than watching youtube videos. I'm going to go visit a couple of dealers and scratch around a bit.
Back in the 80s when I lived in socal I was working for a grading contractor . We had a guy we would call to dig house pads on extremely steep slopes . He had a 977L with ripper with a winch that slid into the shank pockets . It had a 4&1 bucket with dual slope boards on the bucket . Didn't really talk to him much but watching what he could do was absolutely amazing . How he built it don't know .
I know this isn't what the OP asked, but I have a rubber tire loader and love it. Mine is a Deere 544K on skidder tires, a must for our soft south GA dirt. It's much less expensive and smoother to operate than a track loader (I have a large CTL as well). It's also fast enough that I'll drive it between job sites even 8 miles or so apart. Having a bucket, rake, and forks gives me quite a bit of versatility. When things get really soft or slippery, I'm sure the track loader would be a better option.
Sorry, I updated my profile. I am in Georgia, near Athens.
Wheel loader wouldn't be good unless you were on flat ground with very little slope. They have a higher center of gravity and will tip over a lot easier.
Yep, flat ground with little slope is what I have.
Pretty sure I've only seen 1 trackloader around here in 20 years...that one was on a demo job at a GM plant. Ed
Then a wheel loader could be a good choice. However if you're digging in hard clay or other difficult material, a track loader would be a much better option.
Have a bucket for it as well. Works good for for my needs.
Nice!
My first machine was a J350 crawler loader. I learned the ways of spinning in a track or dumping a pile to get started. When I got to a 6 way that could quickly crown a road, I never looked back. Here in rainy country that crown is so essential, and really advanced stuff for a loader.
That's funny, when I'm grading a crown in a road with the loader Dad asks me sometimes, how do you get it to tilt over like that, and I say, "I don't know", lol.
I looked at a dozer once with only up down hydraulic. I vaguely remember I could adjust tilt manually. I commented I would prefer a 6 way blade. He said "All you gotta do is back up on a rock to get started, then it cuts the road to shape." I believe it can also be done backing off the edge of the road to start, come on diagonal. Even a 6 way blade, you run the edge parallel to the tracks as soon as the road under the machine is tilted. I believe a six way blade is useful, but not essential. Angling the blade is not often used. Angle the blade more than a little, I can't see the corners of the cutting edge. My friend is magical on a small dozer, he explains angling the blade slightly avoids the digs & humps you will create affecting both tracks at once. Next pass angle the other way, tends to reduce the digging & piling. Tilting the blade only happens at first when you crown a road. As soon as the tractor is tilted one side of a road, you go back to parallel with the tractor. I have friends, they are highly skilled people. They get the job done with the machine that is there. Kenny, (61 years of age) is still a kid in the eyes of his father (82 years), can do more with a machine than I could believe. If they had a track loader on site, they would crown a road. If a dozer with a 6 way, it'd be more efficient. Each project brings 8? 12? machines. They do the job, ever conscious of the cost of bringing, then removing each machine. One special tool is some of the International Harvester track loaders (175) in the fleet had Drott Skid Loaders. A Drott bucket allows you to doze & load.
The trick to crowning a road with a skid steer or a loader is to only fill the bucket up with material on the side you want to bring the crown up. After your basic flat or tilted grade is done then use the material on the middle or side of the road that you want to build up. Since the bucket is only full on one side it will bring the crown up as you spread out the material. Once your tracks are on the higher material the machine is on a tilt, so the blade (bucket) is tilted that way, and so it goes. Once you get the hang of it, nothing to it.
Don't see them with cabs often. I started wondering if the 2 I've seen plus mine were shop built. Mine even has a/c (not working though)
This ^^^ If there is enough room especially with a CTL you can dump a couple of full buckets on either side of the centerline and create the crown that way. Cut my teeth learning how to grade on a Bobcat 843 making swales between garden homes.
I had to make a small swale one time and the foreman(carpenter) from the contractor asked why I did it that way. I went at 90 deg's. to where the swale was going and dug a bit of a trench to set up the angle so I could then go lengthwise to make the swale. I'm looking at my 5' flat skid steer bucket and thinking how the heck else am I going to get on an angle to make the swale? I could have made a 5' wide trench I guess (don't know what I'd do with the extra material dug out) with a really wide swale but the swale was mostly so water drains away from an electrical box on the property. I think the guy thought I could magically tilt the bucket to make the swale. Bobcat does make a tilt attachment that would make swales easier but I'm not sure if they if have an indicator to tell when the bucket is perfectly level.
I looked at a dozer once with only up down hydraulic. I vaguely remember I could adjust tilt manually. I commented I would prefer a 6 way blade. He said "All you gotta do is back up on a rock to get started, then it cuts the road to shape." I believe it can also be done backing off the edge of the road to start, come on diagonal. Even a 6 way blade, you run the edge parallel to the tracks as soon as the road under the machine is tilted. I believe a six way blade is useful, but not essential. Angling the blade is not often used. Angle the blade more than a little, I can't see the corners of the cutting edge. My friend is magical on a small dozer, he explains angling the blade slightly avoids the digs & humps you will create affecting both tracks at once. Next pass angle the other way, tends to reduce the digging & piling. Tilting the blade only happens at first when you crown a road. As soon as the tractor is tilted one side of a road, you go back to parallel with the tractor. I have friends, they are highly skilled people. They get the job done with the machine that is there. Kenny, (61 years of age) is still a kid in the eyes of his father (82 years), can do more with a machine than I could believe. If they had a track loader on site, they would crown a road. If a dozer with a 6 way, it'd be more efficient. Each project brings 8? 12? machines. They do the job, ever conscious of the cost of bringing, then removing each machine. One special tool is some of the International Harvester track loaders (175) in the fleet had Drott Skid Loaders. A Drott bucket allows you to doze & load.
175 was the first "big" machine that I ran. I was 20, and I rented it from Verlon Payne to stump an orchard for a friend, load out some topsoil and place some big boulders. Verlon worked with my dad in the woods in the 60's. It was pretty cool that he trusted me with it.