Hello to all from a new member. I’m very excited about learning to use the site and making friends. I have owned a Case 580K series 3 for about 5 years now and love it. I clear and maintain my 20 acres and almost a mile of driveway with it and had relatively few problems with it until now. The driver side stabilizer will not hold in either direction and the cylinder has been rebuilt recently. I suspect the spool valve and/or check valve but have never attempted any of these repairs before. I’m planning on doing it myself this time and would appreciate any tips or advice that you might have to help me with this project. Thanks Tom
Could even be that you messed up the piston seal. This would allow flow to go past both directions limiting your movement.
When you say hold, do you mean static or when using the hydraulics?
It could be bad load check seals. See attached diagram of the stabilizer section. Also see attached link from the forums on how to make a load check removal tool by Alrman. HeavyEquipmentForums
After I resealed a drifting cylinder a second time, it still would not hold the backhoe up very long. To positively determine if it is was a cylinder problem or control valve problem -> I removed the cylinders and reinstalled them on opposite sides. The cylinder that I thought had a problem, held the backhoe up just fine when it is on the other side of the backhoe. And the known to be good cylinder then drifted on the side that was problematic. I used this procedure not long ago and unfortunately I am in the process of removing the control valve for a rebuild.
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I have ordered a spool valve seal kit and plan to install it this week. Will keep you updated
It doesn’t hold the position that you set it at with or without the engine running. It will fall if lifted up in the storage position and it will rise underthe weight of the machine if deployed in the down position
I’m planning on changing the load check seals. I’ll let you know how it goes
Great idea! I hadn’t thought of that.
Well I received the seal kit for the drifting stabilizer and installed all new seals and it’s still not holding position. The check valve and both spools look great. None of the old seals were damaged or missing. I guess I will swap out stabilizer cylinders and see what happens.
If the problem is still on the same side after you swap the cylinders from side to side you may need to do what is in one of my service manuals. A visual exam of the load check valve is only part of the process of determining why it may be drifting. This is a from a Case service manual to give you an idea of what the procedure is to service one. The values for your stabilizer valve may (probably) be different.
One thing I did notice when trying out the stabilizer is that if the stabilizer is down and you’re trying to move the stabilizer up very slowly in the beginning of activation of the valve the stabilizer will fall back in the opposite direction under the weight of the machine.
That indicates a problem with the spool or the bore in the valve body. Or both. There is always a chance the the rods that hold the sections together were improperly or over-tightened and cracked the valve body. IMHO of course. I am dealing with the same issue in my own backhoe. I bought a used stabilizer section that I can put in it if I need to. I have the backhoe off of the tractor to make it immensely easier to remove the complete valve. I had to do some creative plumbing on the tractor hoses so that I could start it and drive it away from the backhoe without destroying the hydraulic pump. Besides not having much time to work on it, it is too dam hot out even tho it is in my shop.
In my experience I have seen load check valves that looked good to me , but for the sake of trying the owner spent $400 for a new load check and problem solved 100%. Not saying it is your problem, but for me it was the soulution more than once. Simon C
Well, I just finished putting the drifting stabilizer over on the opposite side and it’s doing the same thing. So it will go back to the shop that rebuilt it for me 2 months ago. See what they say.
Another way to check a drifting cylinder is to fully extend or retract it, then remove the hose from the barrel closest to the piston. Then apply hydraulic pressure to it as if you want it to go further. Leaking piston seals will allow oil to flow out of the open barrel port.
Damn. Why didn’t I think of that! Thanks Tinkerer
The repair shop opened her up and found a big chunk gone out of the piston seal and resealed it and I put it back on today and it works perfectly. Said they didn’t know how it happened and charged me $255. I don’t know how I could’ve done it because it leaked from day one. I paid it and left. Lesson learnt. I have learned alot thru the experience and want to thank those that took the time to visit and make troubleshooting suggestions. In the meantime let’s go digging Tom
That was my guess from the start. I’ve had it happen in a similar way except from the opposite end. The oring on the gland blew apart and wouldn’t hold.
Education ain’t cheap I’ve always said. Next time I will be more prepared to troubleshoot it and make the repairs myself.
I posted in the wrong place. Learning how to use the forum also.
The only thing that will take a piece out of one or all of the piston rings is the threads in the cylinder barrel when installing the rod. They either didn't compress the piston rings long enough before inserting them in the barrel, or they didn't have the piston aligned perfectly parallel with the barrel. Holding a cylinder barrel in a vertical position and then inserting the rod assembly will eliminate seal damage. I use an engine hoist to hold the rod over the barrel before installing it. Total BS that they charged you to repair their mistake. IMHO of course.
Wow thanks for the tip. I’ll definitely do that next time. Yeah I agree it’s B.S but it won’t go in to them again for that kind of repair. I’m going to do it myself from now on. Thanks for the moral support!
Tell me about comptrssing the rings before installing
Good thinking! And, you will save time and money to boot!!
I use plain a ole automotive piston ring compressor. Crank it down really tight, then wait a couple of hours and tighten it some more. Wait a couple more hours more before taking it off then put the rod in the barrel. The quicker the better. A thin coating of grease on both the piston and the barrel threads will make it a little easier. Put enough on the threads so that the piston rings push a small bead of grease into the barrel. Where did the sheared off pisces go ? Hopefully they went harmlessly into the filter.
To piggyback on what Tinkerer said, also make sure the lead on the end of the cylinder barrel is clean. Often, this area will get a bit of rust, which will also catch the seal as it passes by.
That’s good stuff to know. Thanks to you all.
I haven’t done that on the two I’ve fixed, but I’m not saying you are wrong either. The grease method worked for me although at times it’s pretty tight to get in there which obviously is a good thing!
A lot of the seal kits use a z-ring for the ram seal ring which alleviate the clamp required. I will also use a solid hose clamp for silicone hoses, to compress it, especially on the Kubota seals.
Sounds like a pretty shoddy place if they wouldn't fix it on warranty. Did you take the whole cylinder to them or just the rod? If the whole cylinder, it should have been warranty. If you put it back together it's on you. I took just the rods in for my 4 in 1 bucket. I like the Cat cylinders because the bore is tapered wider at the end where the gland nut goes on. I oiled the seals and the piston went in far enough I could get the gland nut started. Tightening the gland nut pushed the piston in further. Also nice the threads on the barrel are external and the bore is smooth with no snap ring grooves or anything else for the seals to get damaged by. I have some more cylinders to do unfortunately including one of the lift cylinders. It's not real bad yet though. The backhoe cylinders leak more.
This was my first experience using them. I took them the complete cylinder. I pulled it off the backhoe and took it to them. They told me that in order for them to warranty it I would need a new rod because it has some dings. I told them it wasn’t leaking at the rod seals. It was just drifting down to the ground. Not holding its position. So I didn’t get a warranty on it. Sounds like you’re really doing a lot to your backhoe. How old is yours? What do you use it for mostly? Is it a caterpillar?
If you do your own next time, and you find dings, they need to be stoned down. What I mean is if the chrome is raised, it will cut the seal, then you will have a leak. If you stone it smooth, it will not cut the seal. I have been using an angle grinder with the roloc or 3m discs to smooth the chrome for years now with no problems.
I’m going to do that. Not familiar with roloc though
Roloc...We generally just call them cookies...LOL
Nice. I’m going shopping. Lol
If you can TIG weld very good, you can actually fill in the dings and deep scratches using very little filler wire and a steady hand.
Beyond my abilities for sure. I have herd of people using jb weld as well. For me, unless it is extreme, which sometimes happens when using a backhoe, I stone them down and they don't cause trouble.
I think any kind of epoxy repair has a chance of becoming dislodged and then causing more problems. That is just my opinion and nothing more. If anyone wants to do an epoxy repair go for it. Tom; I know replacing a rod is expensive because I have had to do it. But, with that expense I had the peace of mind that the builder would warranty it. I couldn't sand my rod because it was badly scratched and caused the leak.
At 72 I am getting a little shaky but I am still welding some. Tig aluminum and mig for the rest
Understandable.
The shop still should have gave you a good deal in my opinion. The bad seals were on the piston and had nothing to do with the rod. My backhoe is a Cat quick attach on the back of a 931B track loader. I use it for digging clay and anytime it's more efficient than using the front end loader.
I agree but am learning the ropes in the heavy equipment service world and didn’t really know what had happened to my cylinder so I’m learning as I go.
Some shops are better than others and stand behind their work. Other's just pad the bill. I had that happen with my bucket cylinders. Over $1750 to rebuild them and I don't think they were near as bad as they claimed.
I’m just glad my backhoe’s back up and running again!
I would never use JB weld or anything else that could come of and get into hydraulic system and cause more problems. I was introduced into tig welding them in a great hydraulic shop 25 or 30 years ago and it’s not that hard at all. Granted, I practiced on some junk rods a few times and it’s not was quite easy to get the puddle started and just barely add some filler wire. No sanding after, at all or you did it wrong and if the chrome is any good, you don’t even lift the chrome. These days, I would be more apt to just sand any edges off that could roll the seals because I’m certain not as steady as I use to be.
Yeah. I’ve seen some pretty dinged up shafts over my vast years that didn’t leak at all. Not gonna kick a sleeping dog now.
It is cool that you actually tig welded, and did not have to grind. I have only tig welded a hand full of times in my life. Mig, flux core, and stick are my comfort zone.
The trick was you didn’t want to grind. You would start the puddle and just do circles as wide as the scratch and when you added filler, it would plump the weld up and when you were done, you couldn’t catch a circle with a fingernail. Steel is very easy to tig vs. aluminum.
The dings left after stoning are just extra oiling pockets to give a little extra lube to the seals The rod on my bucket cylinder looked like a banana when I got it, but it never leaked. It had it's share of dings also. It finally started leaking after a few more years of use. I debated about straightening it, but I thought it never hurt the old seals that much, and I am in a hurry to get going again, so I put it back together with the bow still in it. Doesn't leak.