Brother in Law and I were talking last night, seems St Louis METRO bought four new All Electric battery powered buses. Are sitting on a lot unused as cannot recharge them except single unit over night(8 hours to recharge each for 4-5 hour usage). Has been tried on several yard sites and had several charging stations installed hopeful to have electric buses in service for the area, HOWEVER, when they plug in and switch on more than One of the 600A draw 480V chargers the local substations that feed the garage/service lots trips offline, sees the instant demand as a line fault and trips to protect itself. Local service provider has stated they will have to place special feeder services for Just the charging stations, 'At A Fee Base Increase' to feed Just the Charging Stations, METRO Balked. EACH charger draws 600A, instantaneous draw on initiation is close to 1000A. Has been considered to have 4160 service brought in and a different charging station installed at that voltage but also not cost effective. All for only 4(FOUR) test buses.
Something doesn't sound right there. I suspect that's not the full story. there are all kind of things that can be done the soften the initial shock load
Yes, this does not sound right. But it does highlight a problem, that the amount of energy that travels up and down the highway in 9000+ gallon tank trucks is far more energy than what travels over the electric wires, at least to our little town. If the whole (public and private) fleet switched to electric, there would have to be a lot more tower lines and substations installed.
Worked in a power station, if the system is typical for industrial, the loads shed as to their electrical demand when the power drops off(Hold in Relays Open) for HVAC, Air Compressors, etc. Those are restarted by a human after power recovers. The average amps 'Hit' from a large service as a Bus Garage with ALL the engines plugged into block heaters is less than 500a at 480v supply, that from my Enganear Brother. Take these chargers, they do not start soft, they are nothing more than a transformer(Rectifier) and supplies as demanded. 600a all at once and switch on more than one in rapid succession then BANG, substation opens. Did find out from a previous life contact enganear that lives here, there is NOTHING save add a 4160 or 7kv line Dedicated to the supply for these chargers, with a Instantaneous trip set point of 3500a and would survive, for no more than 4(FOUR) chargers, any greater number and the chargers themselves would have to have a dedicated supply substation.
Wife worked for Pacific Power for 19 years as a service coordinator, the lockouts on power lines are there for surge. Problem with this whole scenario-power companies, co-op's- rural electric, city and county plus federal have a worn out power grid. Power poles, transformers that use to be change out under a fairly strict time line has been changed to only if it's in total fail mode. Most 7000 volt transmission lines are old as hell. The main transformers at sub stations normal was two on hand that has been dropped in many cases to one. Power line crews cut, a lot of work is done by outside contractors like Michaels. The systems across the U.S. are tired. The last major dam built on the Columbia River was 1971 and a few of the dams are reaching 100 years old.
Bagnall Dam in MO is over 90, just had its latest go thru to pass for relicense. I can also attest to the Distribution systems being antiquated, nothing gets changed until fails unless Someone Else fronts the cash to improve or replace as in builds new facilities or needs support for a industry, buses do not equate that way.
Here we live in some of the earliest power generation and transmission country and many things on the system are 100 years old or near it. In fact the 115 kv line into town I spoke of is from the 1960s probably, but it taps off the original 115 kv that runs from the mountain power plants to San Francisco that was built around 1915, still has the original I believe COPPER conductors. There is also a 60 kv that feeds the other part of town which I believe was from the 1905 era, also copper conductors, petticoat insulators and leaning poles everywhere. They are spending millions or hundreds of millions since the fires to upgrade the 110 year old lines, also have done some work on the 100 year old stuff, but at that rate it's a long time to come current....
Some council in Sacramento recently passed, 7-2 vote, all new houses and buildings have to be all electric including restaurants. This in the land of cheap gas production. Of course the majority of power comes from gas burned in plants not far away. But better to be dependent on them and forced to pay their high prices than to burn cheap gas yourself. News blurb: the poor will be hit the hardest by the artificial high energy costs because home heating is a bigger percent of their budget.
Typical. The government creates a crisis and then is the hero when they bail out those who cannot pay with money they stole from them in the first place. But it gets votes.
When they decommission those buses I can use one the batteries for my solar system unless they are lead acid then they can shove them where the sun doesn't shine.
AFAIK are Lithium Ion
Sounds like they need to lower the C rate in bulk phase on the (BMS) Battery management system), it can be had. Bet you those are thousands of 18650 batteries which is old tech compare to the 21700 which has 46% more capacity and 15% more energy efficient.
BIL said they made fork truck battery packs look small, six to a bus. He did not know voltage or motor draw values. Did say tried a Different Site, popped the Substation safeties just as the other shops, on ONE bus.
Put in smaller charger and set the BMS to lower C rate which will take longer but don't go below 1C in doing it. If they can't do that I guess they need to move the buses to a larger city with larger sub station power.
Was a suggestion by the electricians and electric service provider Any less rate of charge and will take 16-24 hours to achieve a functional recharge per bus. Are looking to all options and capabilities. As to larger city or service provider, is in St Louis county, electricity provider is on of largest in nation. Distribution Substations have over current protections to protect first the equipment then the lines then the public surrounding the station followed by potential to cascade into other supplying Transmission Substations.
The local neighbourhood grid will not support an electric car in every garage. Add all the neighbourhoods together and…. A good career for a young person today is as a lineman. There is already a shortage of workers in the field and the pay is very high as a result
Best option comment I heard was to UP the voltage for the charger, raise volts lower amps, go from 480v to 4160 or even to 7kv and decrease amps draw while still able to adjust output voltage to what the batteries require. Other option that is still being discussed with Metro is a Separate singular specialty capacity use substation on Their Dime just to charge the buses but that kind of removes the added savings value to the buses.
That requires a charger that hasn't been designed yet, we have yet to have a charge controller that can handle over 600V in solar panels.
Pretty well the history of modern electric vehicles Give Musk some time and he will figure it out.
Looks as if everyone's problem will be fixed including the one near you! https://www.reuters.com/business/au...-electric-buses-charging-stations-2021-06-24/
Charging stations numbers are not the problem, the materials level/time required of grid overhaul to support the added stations is.
Just before Teslas were invented on the scene in a real way, there was a new 230 kv transmission line being proposed across the Central Valley of California. Nothing special, there are already a dozen of them in the same area going in straight lines built in the 1920s-1960s. This one would zig and zag to avoid areas that have become sensitive since the original ones were built, have slender towers, low heights, and darkened conductors in sensitive areas to lessen visual impact, etc. Protests were made, years went by and I think the project just died. The major objection made was that we need to be decreasing energy consumption, not increasing it. But the shift from liquid/vapor fuels to electric was apparently not on the radar of the people protesting. Unintended consequences.
Call them NIMBY’s here Not In My Back Yard Have similar issues adding transmission capabilities and heavier distribution services.
Increasing numbers of people being concentrated in urban centers requiring more energy for the basics of living. Reduced sources of energy due to a misinformed populace that has lost perspective on what it takes to power mass transit, trucks, cars, house and appliances. In the Northwest, hydroelectric dams and anything that touches a water stream is considered a pollution source. Wind mills and solar plants are considered non polluting. The population conveniently forgets that those sources do wear out and there is a pollution penalty for their removal, destruction and disposal. What is also forgotten is to this point that they are not economically viable without tax support from the populace. The other issue is storage of excess production (batteries) and the economic and ecological impact of their production and later disposal. We are coming to an inflection point and will soon be having a come to Jesus conversation dealing with a declining standard of living. Our current heat wave here in the Northwest is just a symptom of things to come.
Can relate to that 'Come To Jesus' conversation, had one the other day with a cretan that was pushing the ALL Electric stuff while in same breath calling for closure of all non-renewables stations, had NOT a clue and told her so. Got that Deer In Headlights look as threw actual viability numbers at her. Actually expect On Roof Solar units to power Battery Charging for these machines, voltage incorrect, requires more cells, requires more adaptation to feed the machines and area to feed them. My old Company is setting a Solar Farm at I-70 and MO 19 at New Florence MO, proposed delivery at close to 4mW where peak delivery will only be 6-7 hours during summer daylight 3-4 hours winter, off peak hours less than 6 hours summer and 3 hours winter daylight where ramps up or down where took out near to 140 acres of Prime tillable ground. Several Hundred Wind Turbines to make a farm of 1000mW where less than 4/5 units will ever be in operation at a time and the 1/5 in stages of maintenance or repair or backup. Takes MASS Acreage in a 'Well Suited Wind Environment' to perform well. All sorts of calls for specialized, beyond belief or reality power supply systems that cannot be overall adapted into the systems.
This chart shows the scale of the problem well.
Just FYI it's the same energy density. The numbers of the batteries refer to dimensions. The only difference between the two batteries is a metal tab that improves conductivity.
Sorry i was thinking of the difference between 21700 and 46800 cells
The real problem-too many people.
Too many people and wanting to live in a perfect environment with everything supplied by someone else.
U.S. population in 1950-151,325,798.----------------------Population in 2020-331,002,651.
Seems the game changer was the Boomer explosion. Great jobs, great pay, great benefits and baby factories couples.
Boomers, after WWII, mom and dad (The Greatest Generation) went through the depression, prized hard work and education, lived without electricity and indoor plumbing for a time, understood where their food came from and passed most of that down to their boomer children. Boomers dealt with Vietnam, loosening of ethical standards, societal and political change, prized education and/or hard work to a point. Most always had electricity and indoor plumbing and were driving cars as soon as they turned sixteen. Many lost sight of where their food came from. Succeeding generations can't function without electricity and their smart phones, think that killing animals for food is the same thing as murdering people, believe there is no need for indoor plumbing as sewage is can be dropped on the sidewalk anytime someone feels the urge, believe education is just a place where they can meet new people to be social with and that someone will be available to drive them wherever they might want to go. It seems we are overdue for a paradigm shift.
I generally don't care for Michel Moore but I watched his latest movie and it's about all the bull the greenies are trying to push on renewable energy. It's close enough to the truth that the greenies hate it . Planet of the Humans about 1:40 hours on u-tube it's worth the watch. Bob
And this goes in so many directions. When the wife worked for Pacific Power and there was a storm the phone calls asking when the power would be back on was to say ridiculous. When things like this happen the common/natural thing to do it seems is to check how cold fridge is every ten minutes. We have no water, I can't open the garage door-----and so on. If the power grid failed people would be at each others throats in no time. We live in a me, me, me society. It's in every aspect of our lives it seems. Most boomers don't like what I say-I don't know how many times I hear someone my age ranting about the last two generations and how lazy they are. Also quick to forget how their own children are not the shining examples they think. It's always {Oh no my kids know better than that, I raised them right} Really- one week ago you were gripping how your always bailing them out of one thing or another. A couple years ago Wanapum Dam on the Columbia River developed a crack-It was repaired-for awhile it caused a stir. People drive by those dams and never even give it a thought that one could fail {That will never happen} until that happened and Wanapum pool behind the dam was lowered 65' to perform repairs. Then it was the talk. Society in general takes much of life for granted.
Had my cell phone out for nearly an entire day a few months ago rogers network was down virtually all of canada, got to admit that was absolute hell. No calls, emails, nothing. Impossible trying to run a business, couldn't work and know many others just sent everyone home too. If it was back when people still had landlines and paper plans etc were still in paper it wouldn't be so bad, but I can't remember the last time I printed out any plans it's just so much easier to pull them up on the phone. As far as population, it's immigration that's upping the population so much, people already living in north america aren't having enough kids to even maintain the population. Boomers may have a point in some things, but in many ways they had it a lot easier. Leave high school easily get a good paying job and easy to afford a house, etc and prices went insane so even owning 1 house is a good retirement plan. Things aren't even close to that anymore. There is no way in the next 50-60 years house prices will go up 10 fold like they did the the previous time. I think kids who grew up with social media can have it pretty rough sometimes too. I am totally one of those "kids these days won't work" attitude, but in reality there is plenty of deadbeats who don't want to work from all age groups. I haven't been around long enough to know if it's gotten worse, I would guess it has though. Largely because just in construction there is so much more equipment around making jobs easier, and people still bitch that it's hard. Expect someone to actually use a shovel and they look at you like you have two heads, like it's such a foreign concept.
And because of this we have Puget Sound from Washington state is putting a windmill farm up 50 miles or closer to the north of this city. Yes way too f#@$! out here from Washington state and they are raping this side of Montana’s farm land to save their precious fish. As @DMiller put it NIMBY’s is why they are doing it, out of sight out of mind and no one got a say in the matter before it was approved.
My iphone generally sits in the truck cupholder well away from me as I drive. I can still receive phone calls thru my hearing aids but cannot make one except a quick redial of last call inbound if lose signal and drop them. I ignore much of my email, unsubscribe to a great deal of the crap mails where only receive a easy dozen active mails from people I want to talk to. Political crap money beggars get on my trash list pretty quick. Had a Millennial tell me I was "Too Backward to understand real life" while thumb hammering on his whatever tablet/phone device trying to prove me wrong, was no signal strength where we were and I stated so, he desperate to prove me wrong was trying everything to get something to come up internet or phone calls. Could not believe he was in such a backwater to not have a signal, was in Big Spring MO not fifteen miles from my home, Dead Hole. He was too tech geek'd to understand his life is a lie and tied at the hip to tech that can and does fail. We have power failures as on a REA here, can stand not having power a few hours, just do not work the fridge or freezer, or well tank supply, can still pee in the front yard, know how to deal with crapping in the woods even during snowfalls. Have stored dehydrated foods can fall back to or if need be have connections to run my generator to reload the well tank, clean up a bit or even use lights or heat. Could care less of phone.
When it comes to electric vehichles it is never mentioned they too have carbon footprint. The collection batteries do not stand the test of time and will ultimately create more waste. Just like there are many vehicles waiting for computer chips which is due to a mineral shortage solar panels are made of minerals of finite supply too. fun fact: the amount of energy it takes to make a solar panel cannot be achieved by solar power alone. I have a co-worker whom leased a Tesla for a trial period; got a flat tire ,there was no spare tire on board because there is no place to fit it in! I also love the thought that the price of a f150 lightning projected base price of $ 60k is triple the cost of what a Boomer paid for there first home!
Well METRO is breaking down and accepting a construct of a Specialized Specific substation for the recharging station at the Main Garage. Will be fed from a specific line at 7200v with end use defined transformer to a DC rectifier charger station all built into the same structure. Estimate is 2 mos. time to completion. Will ONLY support 6 connection ports, with two ABB charger units and three stations each, 150kw/hr each port at 450vDC. Figures to 330Amps EACH port continuous delivery where requires six hours to recharge to operate for four hours daily.
Sorry about my last post I was all over the map Ranting about solar panels and such; first post in awhile .I just wanted to jump in... Anyways I was at a recent town meeting and there is talk of having a charging station at the Hwy.dept. garage for the future fleet of electric plow trucks. Which as DMiller mentioned last post for every 4 hours of use it takes 6 hours to recharge. The decision to buy a new wheel loader was delayed while they explore the possibility of an electric version. I left the meeting wondering is this equipment already on the ground working anywhere? Because I have not seen it here in my area yet.
Well hope you live very close to the town barn if you expect to see your road plowed! Might better just take a lesson from the bears and hibernate until the snow melts!
That day can't come soon enough, IMO.
I think anyone in colder climates needs to really seriously think about it before going electric. Everything I read, indicates a electric snowplow truck would be a bad idea. Granted, if its a tax funded entity, that just means they need to up the taxes a little to pay for it- so the $$$ doesn't really matter. 40% of the average range once its below 0 F. Sounds like a lot of people on the side of the road with a dead battery in a snowstorm. And maybe the snowplow too.
Well to add to our problem-the U.S. hasn't accepted the idea of real mass transit other than flying. High speed rail should have been developed years ago. Instead we like the idea of hopping in the car and doing road trips, sometime or another that has to change.
And what could be realized by this? Less demand for petroleum due to less vehicular traffic? Because high speed rail requires an energy source. Just asking the question...
I'm thinking that there would be some reduction in the net energy needed in some areas with more wide spread use of high speed rail over that of air travel. Plus I can imagine the rail system would allow a bit more flexibility in the number of people being moved or the number of people required to run it.
The entire basis of society will need to change, not just adjust. All too many need to be nowhere in particular as of yesterday, freight picks are always three days behind and with inventory taxation will be next to nothing on shelves as soon as they implement this nonsense unless do implement a basis time frame change. Train travel can return, just have to be able to accept three days travel time as opposed to one for flying. And yes a flight from STL to SLC or SF only takes a few hours but then also have travel time to/from airports, lag time getting acclimated, seat time awaiting flight after being two hours early to accommodate DHS requirements. Trains already are switching to AC Electric Generators, can easily highline the lines and set up pantograph run the motors on Line Voltage. Electricity is being generated where being used or not, may as well use some effectively. I prefer slower anymore, where been touring on the bike, miles did not mean as much as comfort, made less than 250m in a day or up to 500m in 12 hours, dependent on necessity but mostly Slow and Steady backroads and touring, train would be similar and could transport ride with us, use it to get to the train then use to tour at destination.
The expense of high speed rail that is frequently thrown out by the media neglects to include are the capital costs of planning and engineering, acquisition of land, listing an obtaining materials, legal issues, construction costs and finally maintenance costs that will have to be carried by the taxpayers. Operation costs are also never fully covered by the people using the system either. Then the end of life costs should also be factored in. An example of that is the thread on the dismantling, reduction of waste and disposal of wind mill blades. Right now we don't have enough power to run all the air conditioning units without burning out transformers and sagging the power lines that start wild fires. No one has bothered to provide an estimate of total energy required by the nation as opposed to total energy available. Add to that an old transmission system patch worked to nearly 100 year old requirements geared to metropolitan areas and add in protections for fish, agriculture and industry. Right now there are no viable alternatives to fossil fuel and hydro power. Coal is on the way out but the replacement for it at this time is natural gas.
It will be an interesting time this next 10 or so years, and I'm sure glad I live in bum-***** ND, where when the **** we can sit back and enjoy the show, for the most part. Some of you will not be so lucky.
Glad I live Rural, can see for a few thousand feet, no freeloaders will make it across the fences.
That's nice in theory but in reality batteries namely Lithium Iron Phosphate LiFePO4 batteries which are used in such applications due their discharge rate of 1-25C won't be affected by the cold as that chart shows, some will some won't depends on who makes them. Reason I say this is Tesla batteries for example sit in a coolant solution that can be warmed up for adverse temperatures below so you aren't on the side of the road in snow storm. Many reasons they do this is they need to be above 32 degrees to be charged or damage can occur if your BMS (Battery management system) can't readjust current coming in based on temperatures and when they get too warm it cools them off. Also don't know which battery system this chart is on as each battery type is affected by the cold differently on their capacity i.e. Pb (lead acid) would drop about 50% capacity at 32 degrees and LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) would be only 10%. I never meant to fall into the world of electricity or batteries, EV,s and solar I just fell into it due to living off grid and EV's, PV systems all mesh together on same principals so one learns a lot if they can retain the information. Yes we have to do something to offset what we take from this planet and is this the answer, no, but it's the direction things are going just as the people who rode horse and buggy days were against automobiles. Truthfully they were right to do so, look where we are now. As for those who think they can sit back and watch the show all I can say is you won't be for long. It's only time for someone invades this country for resources or the war parties start up raiding and looking for resources and claiming territory. Being further out is just buying time is all, I've seen in war torn countries time and time again.
What doesn't require a energy source? But instead of X amount of vehicles on the road with one or two people wouldn't it be better to move 600 at one time requiring a lot less fuel? If there was a high speed rail that ran from SW Wash to Seattle or Portland you could bet I would use it. When the **** happens-don't fool yourself. Where do you think people will run to-rural america. Plus better stock up on all parts-three of everything and any used junk laying around. You will be lucky to find fuel filters and the like.
Read the facts folks. https://simplicable.com/new/high-sp...nger kilometers with 1 kilowatt hour of power .
If ****, we won't be worrying about filters and parts because there won't be any fuel anyway. Hopefully it happens in the spring when the bulk tanks are full At least then we will have the summer to figure it out.
Sorry it won't be that easy because things never happen at the correct time. John Steinbeck-Cannery Row, The Grapes of Wrath, Of Mice and Men.
U.S. population in 1929--121,767,000. -----today 331,000,000 plus.
Those are the kind of things I was thinking of but did not have the ability to put in word! And no! They will not be able to replace cars or planes for every area but if used to replace where viable they could be a positive addition.
So if you have a tesla, it has to be in a heated garage to charge it, if you live in northern climates? What if you live in a apartment complex with no garages? If/ when we get to fleet vehicles- do they all have to be inside also? I haven't read up on the tesla's too much, but there aren't many in my area. I think So. Cal is probably a great location to try them out and get the bugs worked out, their climate is ideal for EV.
Power company I retired from has several EVs in service testing to see if can be useful, according to the garage techs they are not. Had to put emergency charging stations at feeder substations so the users can recharge enough to get back to head quarters, that said the users have to remain with the vehicle and remain 'On the Clock' unproductive. Last winter was a cold bear at two facilities, the EVs in those sat as would not charge adequately under the shelter structures(Covered but exposed to temperatures) and reverted back to conventional machines. Be better off to make Bio Gasoline and Diesel replacements than use batteries.
While this is better than the seemingly endless rathole of wind or solar, I do not believe using land that should be producing food to produce fuel is the right answer. It's only a stop-gap.
Well, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go raid another country, so are we supposed to just lay down and take it if it comes to that? Pretty sure you won't, and I won't be either.
Nope the coolant or heating pad depends on make and model will preheat the batteries before accepting a charge in cold temperatures. Nope just give it a bit as everyone gets it out of their system of pent up anger from today’s society and let the weak ones die out or shoot each other. There is so many variables of which way things could go there is no definitive answer, just know you can’t sit back and watch it. That I know what there is to come as for joining or fighting it depends on who is raiding, we have a thing called METT-TC in the service that I live by, Mission Enemy Terrain Troops Time and Civilians on the battlefield.
There will be a lot of failures with EV vehicles trial and error. What I always find interesting is society in love with their combustion engines have little good to say about EV concept. People Hate and Despise change, they will work their butt off to run a idea in the ground. Nothing is impossible and eventually the EV plan will happen. People look at their vehicles as freedom to go and do what they want when they want. Fine go do it, but at sometime folks better plan on plugging in at some point. Hate it or not.
Really? Who is going fire the first round at another fellow american?
The problem with that article is I've never heard of the agency the produced it and the publishing year is 2016. It also follows my post about ignoring all the costs that go along with the product. They also don't say where the power was derived from. https://www.enecho.meti.go.jp/en/category/special/article/energyissue2019_01.html Japan imports most of its energy only producing 9.6% domestically. So what are the costs of those imports, hydro and nuclear power plants and how much of that power is subsidized by the taxpayer and how much is paid for by the users of the trains. A lot of general statements in the article with no actual facts to back up the premise they are presenting. I'm not arguing that electricity is the power of the future for moving individuals on the highways. I am arguing that in the near term, electric vehicles taking the place of fossil fuel vehicles is going to be a long time in coming. I am not sold on battery power using exotic and hard to find minerals and materials as being part of that future. I also doubt that high speed rail will ever supplant air travel. A plane doesn't need a highway and given all the stuff that goes with flying, it will still be more convenient than taking the train. I also don't see a future in electric long haul trucks over diesel fuels unless you want to string power lines over the freeways.
If EV’s aren’t the future then California and few other states are going to have to retract their “by the year” dates law of when combustion engine vehicles can’t be sold anymore along with vehicle manufacturers pledges.
Please. They have been claiming EV were the future for 25+ years. Ain't happened yet, and though we're closer than we were 5 years ago, it ain't happening any time soon.
B.C. Has a “no internal combustion engine “ rule for new vehicles sold starting in about 9 yrs(?). Not sure how people that are not located in an Urban area are going to get along. Imagine living in the bush and going out to fix fence or round up cows in the winter and only having a few hours of work until the battery is empty to get back to the farm house.
Chicago has over 2,000 shootings so far this year, 104 on the 4th of july weekend alone. Unfortunately, there seems to be little qualms in some areas, with people shooting other people. As far as the EV. I think it will be legislated into happening, I just hope it isn't a black hole of power shortages, on a trip to a third world status. Are there studies for California if they have 100% EV what kind of KW's that is going to take and what their current Kw's are, without more power being built? Because I know they aren't building any more power plants. (After some looking, they import around 30% of their current power, and are producing a lot of solar during the day. Their main worries are when everyone gets home and kicks on the a/c and plugs in the E/v as the sun goes down. Their plan is more transmission lines and a hope for a technology leap in storage). Electric is nothing new- even in the dirt working game, its just hasn't been economically viable yet. I think there is a large learning curve, and a large technology gap between what people think is possible, and what's reality. I think high speed rail is a great idea, that we don't have the political willpower to make happen. They can't build pipelines under the ground right now, there's no way we can build new rail lines. However much sense it might make. When I look at the dams and interstates built in the post war period, my most often thought, is how we wouldn't be able to build any of those things today, but look what they provide in flood control, power, and transportation benefits. Last time we went from sw missouri to oregon coast for the wife's family get together, I looked at taking the train. Its was around a 75 hour trip by amtrak to get from here to there. So rail for passengers, isn't really a option. Rail is great for freight at cost per mile. It wasn't unusual in my parents and grandparents time to use rail, because at the time, it was cheaper an more reliable than vehicles. My grandfather rode the train to chicago to sell cattle and troop movements. My mom as a little girl took the train for day travel from a small iowa town to des moines and back. The california car sales thing is interesting. They won't be allowed to buy any new cars in california that aren't ev, but they can buy them new in another state and bring them in. Bet their car dealers are going to howl about that. I guess, I'm a optimist about the whole thing. I don't think we are headed to chaos. I spent time under a desk in grade school in preparation for a nuclear strike. I sometimes wonder how close we came to wiping out our whole planet because of a accidental launch. So I guess calif. is going to be the canary in the coal mine in a EV experiment, and we can see how it works. People will vote with their feet on if its worth staying there.
CA is not allowing import from Outside states already, any machine that cannot meet CARB standards either cannot be licensed or as with trucks and HE is hours of use restricted for use. EV law will not allow or forgive a person buying out state and bringing in state. Brother lived that as had a 86 GM square body Blazer. Had no CA emissions equipment so had to maintain registration in IL that his son kept buying tags on against our Grandmother’s address until she passed away. He then shipped the Blazer to MO to our younger brother to store until he finally moved from CA, sold it two years ago in CO.
My point about high speed rail wasn't where japan gets it's power. It was about how much power high speed used. Plus I didn't say there would be E/V long haul trucks. What I'm saying is personal vehicles. A article from 2016 is not old. I wasn't referring to Chicago-we know what that's about. People are over thinking the future of where EV will be used.