Rumors have been flying around, but now it's official. Caterpillar will offer an industry-first track-type tractor. This thing is AWESOME, and is another example of Caterpillar leading the construction equipment industry in technology and innovation. Caterpillar Announces the First-of-Its-Kind Electric Drive Track-Type Tractor "PEORIA, IL— In a move that further positions it as the world’s leading manufacturer of earthmoving equipment, Caterpillar Inc. (NYSE: CAT) is unveiling the first innovative AC electric drive track-type tractor in the industry. The revolutionary electric drive system developed for track-type tractors gives the D7E an unmatched balance of power, efficiency, control and maneuverability. The machine will be showcased at CONEXPO/CON-AGG 2008 March 11-15 in Las Vegas, Nevada. “The D7E offers a quantum leap in customer value through significant productivity increases and reduced owning and operating costs,” said Mark Pflederer, vice president of Caterpillar’s Heavy Construction & Mining Division. “This is another example of Caterpillar’s global technology leadership and commitment to sustainable innovation which is not only good for our customers economics, but the environment as well.” From a performance standpoint, this new product demonstrates Caterpillar’s commitment to the industry with a machine that does more work and consumes less fuel and parts while providing customers with lower operating costs. Caterpillar plans to commercially introduce the D7E in select markets during 2009. “From an environmental sustainability perspective, the D7E uses substantially less fuel per hour – dramatically reducing the amount of carbon dioxide emissions,” said Caterpillar Group President Stu Levenick. “This revolutionary design consumes fewer resources over its working life than any other track-type tractor in its class. All major components are engineered to be rebuilt or reused in the future.” The D7E is in the 60,000-pound (27 000-kilogram) weight range and is powered by a Cat® C9 engine producing 235 horsepower (175 kilowatts). A traditional mechanical transmission is not needed, because the variable speed electric motors serve the function of a continuously variable transmission. The electric drive train has 60 percent fewer moving parts compared to previous D7s. The electric system also provides power to auxiliary components so that no engine belts are needed. The C9 engine, complete with ACERT® Technology, meets U.S. Tier 3 emissions standards, and the tractor has been designed with Tier 4 in mind. The new D7E has other innovative new features including an exclusive center-post cab, beltless engine and SystemOneTM undercarriage."
Pics..
I'd love to...but they won't let me post anything until after ConExpo. I'm sure they'll have photos available after this coming Tuesday.
Thanks...:drinkup
I was going to post abouts Cat's new electric drive dozer and didnt see that someone beat me to it earlier today. Moderators please delete this thread. Thanks Geno
Sounds interesting. I would like to try it out.
Thats 3 times today it has made it to the forum. This thing will create quite a stir. I can't wait to try one out, see if its all its hyped to be
There is a picture of one on pjstar.com which is a Peoria, IL newspaper. Looks like a regular old D7R from the distance. Geno
I looked, but can't find anythig related to Cat, Caterpillar, or D-7 in the search function for the paper, do you have a link to it?
Electric Cat Wow ! That is an Electrifying story. Fantastic ! I'd sure like to see that .
Electric Drive Hey Northart, What do you think Mr. R.G. would say about this? dpull
Electric Cat Hello Dpull, You know, studying all LeTourneau History , I never seen a Electric Track Dozer. He had the Tournadozer, which is rubber tired. This sure is an Electrifying idea ! Something totally new .:usa
The single biggest secret of my internship at Cat is finally revealed! Thanks for posting the link, activeorpassive... I was made aware that the tractor release was pending, and I'm thrilled. At last!
I'll take 6. How much you think they'll give me on trade in for some old FD 175's and 255's? LOL
Oh well time will tell ! If they build a D10-D11 sized electric tractor I am sure we will get it here first in the Valley. Ross
Ahhhhh, but it's not totally new! Charles Doerr built an electric dozer many , many years ago and it was used in a coal mine in Alberta owned by Mannix Coal I believe. I think it was called the Doerr Tractor, but I could be wrong. I wish I had pictures. Brian
But it IS totally new... in the sense that the Doerr above used traction motors, which are DC. The D7E uses AC induction motors, which will provide better reliability and reduced maintenance. The system works on the same principle as AC drive trucks, just on a smaller scale. The tractor will be an elevated sprocket, with AC motors providing the input instead of a transmission. The tractor will still incorporate differential steer. The beltless engine is definitely different at first glance. It looks odd to see an engine without belts and pulleys on the front.
Beltless ? Hello Activeorpassive, So, there is no radiator ?? No fan, hub and pulley ? How is it cooled ? Am I missing something ?
The fans will be electric
Yep Knew of tis for some time, Just couldnt say frig all LOL. Should be interesting, Hopefully Cats got there **** figured out on this one.
Here is pic from yesterdays Peoria paper:
The D7E One of the first dozers I ever drove was a D7E from 1964. As I was only 19 back then the power shift D7 was a real adventure, a huge differce to the fifties type dozers I had tried previously. This new D7E sounds very interesting, but I think the picture from the Peoria paper shows the current D7R, with waste disposal arrangement. I enclose a pic of the old D7E I drove as it looked last year. The other pic shows an identical dozer being rebuilt in a workshop in Iceland recently.
I didnt think they would have a pic of it before conex either, thats the pic they had in the paper on Fri. Thats a nice project there!
Are you sure about that???? The D7E that I spied was a low drive tractor
D7E is a low drive, sat in a prototype in late 2007.. Nice forum...:usa
the 11r has no pullys in the front the fan is powered by hyd. there is a couple small pullys on the back 1 for a/c the other for alt.
http://pjstar.com/stories/030808/BUS_BG0ATFU3.045.php
That's really going to get better fuel economy!
Thanks Truck608 for the link, I didnt put the picture because it looked like a D7R and I figured it wasnt correct. I forgot to mention that with my post. My guess is it will be low drive because that is what has been out at the proving grounds in Peoria. Looked real wide from the back like the motors take up a lot of room. Geno
Saw the D7E in Las Vegas today Well, they took us out to the Las Vegas Speedway and showed us this thing, walked us all around it, and NEVER LET US OPERATE IT! (Not that I'm one to complain.) I shot some video, which you will soon find here- http://www.constructionequipment.com/index.asp?layout=videositeTOC Technology is all Cat. The AC motors differ from RG's in that they are more medium-voltage levels. Voltage reduced from truck drive systems so that they do not require a certified electrician for service/repair. Product managers said that larger tractors with the technology are very likely, but they're still a bit removed from testing this tractor's commercial viability, aren't they? They gave us pictures, too, and never mentioned any kind of embargo. So here goes. Note the oval-ness of the undercarriage. Single front lift cylinder. Single cab A pillar lined up with exhaust stack and lift cylinder. I shot a couple myself, but they weren't great
My bad...it's a low drive. Yeah, but have you seen an engine with no belts on it at all? No a/c, water pump, or alternator belt on this one--front or back. Pretty sweet.
Oh dear. The Cat truly is out of the bag.
Prototype Wow ! I'd sure like to run one of them. Sounds real exciting, even to this old guy. Got the heart pumping blood again.LOL :usa Just a drooling. LOL
Well, I feel pretty safe to say we won't see these where I work. I can only imagine we'd short one out and fast. Brian
no i cant, i just got used to not seeing any belts on the front, now they come out with this. looks like an impressive innovation, prob sweet to operate. wonder if it has any power to the ground? i still didnt see what size it is, i heard a 7, what letter are they putting behind it? i couldnt watch the vid
Ha Ha Ha yeah, I dont think this will make a good swamp buggy. Ross
That's D 7 E 235 horsepower C9 engine 60,000-pound (27,000 kg) weight class Product guys say the electrical system is sealed, and Cat uses (for the time being) the same recommendation for submerged operation as for the D7R -- It'll work in water up to the fan. All of the accessories are electric, except the hydraulic fan. AC is completely self-contained up on the roof of the cab. Product guys say it puts more flywheel horsepower and torque on the ground than a powershift because it doesn't lose horsepower in a torque converter. They claim a reduction in fuel consumption of up to 20 percent (compared to the D7R), increase in production of up to 10 percent, and a combined increase in material moved per gallon of fuel of up to 25 percent. Optimal figures estimated in a slot-dozing operation. Uses the same blade as a D7R. Electric drive is infinitely variable, like hydrostatic in that respect, and so they claim that it offers much more precise positioning control, and the ability to counter-rotate with differential steering. Lots of talk tonight around the water cooler about how ugly it is. I don't agree. It is a little clunky looking in places, but you have to remember that it's a field trial prototype. I strongly suspect there will be refinements. The cab design is pretty interesting. There is a HUGE empty space under that hood. Product guys say it's to accommodate Tier 4a technology when it comes available, but the consensus is that Tier 4a couldn't possibly require that much space. I wonder if Cat Power has another emissions-reducing surprise up its sleeve for the next emissions-reduction deadline? Today's explanations about the oval track sounded a little jarring in relationship to the elevated-sprocket marketing. I think the questions need to be asked for a while longer before the real answer will begin to surface. More meetings, more chances to find out about the monster tomorrow. For now, I got to sleep. L
It seems like Cat is abandoning their once very highly acclaimed hi-drive. It might be because the hi-d D7 never faired very well (or what?) Or because in this way they can reduce the number of components and lower the center of gravity. This might even increase sales of their competitors because when Cat says good for oval drive it must be ok! A questionable move is the single lift cylinder. While improving visibility it is bound to put more stress on the blade corners. But maybe that was no problem with the Euclid/Terex dozers?
Well, my! .... how the worm turns! .. Cat pooh-poohed for decades, any of their competition, who used any form of electric drive, particularly R.G. LeTourneau .. pooh-poohed Euclid/Terex with their "useless" single ram blade design .. told everyone for 25 years that low track design was history, and obsolete .... and now we have .. A. An electric drive Cat .. B. A single blade ram .. C. A low track design .. And to top it all .. the whisper is, that the AC drive technology for the D7E, has merely been purchased from an off-the-shelf supplier .. If Cat have done this right, the tractor may be a winner. The simple fact of the matter is, that diesel electric drive is a very efficient method of propulsion .. and R.G. LeTourneau was 50-80 years ahead of his time, when he produced an electric powered scraper in 1922 .. produced the AC "Tournatorque" electric motor in 1948 (that could operate under water and produce maximum torque in 1/6th second) .. and patented the electric wheel motor in 1950. LeTourneau obtained, held and probably still hold hundreds of patents on electric motor and electric wheel design .. and I'll wager Cat is probably paying LeTourneau, royalties somewhere along the line, for (1950's - ) technology used in the "new" 2008 Cat .. The current LeTourneau loaders are the largest around .. are proving themselves very efficient .. and you can look forward to most larger items of equipment, turning to electric drive technology within the next decade.
What the ???????? It's a Eucpilliar . It's a 8240 with a yellow paint job and a chopped down cab,and electric drive. The outside final drive plantary system is a plus,but they need to add another lift cylinder for the dozer,what was they thinking(cheap). Wheres the rear radiator,O' guess Komatsu beat them to that.Too bad Terex never did anything good with the old Euclid dozers,now the other companys are robbing there ideas. Back when i was around Euclid dozers the plantary final drive wasn't any good:beatsme ............now who's using them, everyone!!!!!!!!!! Other then the single cylinder idea ,looks to be a usable machine. That if they can just keep the land fill rat from eating up the wiring to the electric motors and shorting out the system.Like they did last year on my D6R starter system .Good luck!!!!!!!!!:usa
Well if you look at the low drive from a mechanical drivetrain point of view, it is junk and outdated. If it is hydrastat or electric drive then ? Cross shaft, spur pinions etc are all costly repairs and are not good for production machines. You can have the trans/diff and finals swapped before you can get a old cross shaft drivetrain torn down. I bet the DPF/ Catalyst for Tier 4 is gonna be a monster, and will require a ton of room to keep it heat shielded etc. So is the water pump gear driven off of the front gear train or the rear? Haven't seen a gear drive C9 water pump yet?
Now that is what makes Cat such a great company! i love these great ideas of these new machines. i mean look what has been introduced since the last Con-Expo in 2005 the M-Series grader, the D6K great size, the 657G update, the new 345D coming out the 953-973D's. the list goes on and on. I can not wait to get to Vegas to be around many other people like myself who have such a passion for this industry!! I look forward to seeing everyone there.
look at train engines... they been diesel generated electric for how long now. talk about torque
CEwriter's video has been posted. http://www.constructionequipment.com/index.asp?layout=videositeTOC
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Accertin! :drinkup
Thank you Construction Equipment:notworthy I think it has been exciting to see this new type technology, even if it is 'recycled' and it will further every brand in the end.
Speaking of the D6K, what would y'all think about a D6 with oval track, ie: no elevated sprocket? Allow me to paraphrase the Cat line on the D7E's oval track. 'We studied all potential applications of the D7E, and decided that oval track was the best way to go. The greatest advantage of elevated sprocket design comes with suspended undercarriage (oscillating bogey wheels). Only the D8 and larger sized tractors have suspended undercarriage. D8 and larger sized tractors will continue to be offered as elevated sprocket tractors. We will continue to evaluate the undercarriage designs of D7 and smaller tractors.' Oh, and the D7E is going to replace the D7R. Probably not right away, but Cat will taper off production of the D7R in favor of the D7E. Hmmm, L PS: Don't miss the D7E video with narration by Cat's own John Walker. http://www.constructionequipment.com/index.asp?layout=videositeTOC
What stuns me about this thing .. is that it uses an undercarriage that is a dead-ringer for the TD15 planetary-style undercarriage .. and Cat sneered at the TD15 design as being a dead loss for strength, reliability, track misalignment under track frame oscillation, and the amount of components required .. as compared to Cat tractors of the day .. Now .. magically, this 'outdated', 'inadequate', 'inferior' system of IHC's .. suddenly becomes the answer to every crawler tractor owners prayer .. in 2008 .. Methinks this is a triumph of marketing BS, over engineering .. The other factor is .. just how repairable are these electrics gonna be? Is it a case of an owner being able to rebuild them at the local rewind shop? .. or will they NEED to be sent back to Cat for exchange .. with "repairer/user safety issues", being stated as the reason we can't repair them on our own turf?? .. The last and most interesting feature has to be cooling. We always operate Cats in 40-50°C + temps in Australia .. and they have always run hot, regardless of the model/jobsite/conditions .. and .. electric motors generate a LOT of heat (I can recall smoking a few D-Pull lift motors .. ) .. so .. I wonder just what the cooling setup is, on these things? Those motors buried in the frame are gonna need a LOT of cooling air .. particularly when they are loaded up and grunting all day long .. I trust the engineers have done their homework ..
It seems to me as if it only has 1 drive motor that replaces the converter and trans, still has diff steer. I would have thought that a motor in each side would be a better set up. Also did you see that ripper on the video, looks like they took it of a Komatsu. But a very interesting tractor indeed and Good luck to CAT.
Cat chose to use a lower-voltage drive system to eliminate the need for a cetified electrician to work on them - to make them more serviceable in the field. The cooling fan is hydraulically driven, on demand. The motors are liquid cooled. I think they upsized the radiator, but I'll need to confirm with the product guys when I see them later this week. I'll let you know. The marketing lingo is that "We've designed the machine to work everywhere a D7R works." And as they plan to replace the D7R with it, seems like it would be commercial suicide to spend all the R&D money developing the drive system and then fail to make sure the thing is, indeed, capable of replacing the 7R even in high ambients. L
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums bigfoot! :drinkup
AC motors don't develop as much heat as the DC ones do, but there might be a water jacket around the the motor that is part of the engine cooling system.
Is it just me or does Deere suddenly seem like a lot better choice?
new technology NO dont knock it until you try it you may end up looking silly you may not
I would like to give one a try sometime, but it sure seems to me that you ( the O/O ) will no longer be able to work on your own machines like in the good old days.
CE Writer ? Hello CE Writer, The D6K ? I personally like that size machine. I like the joystick steering feature. Thumbwheel on the dozer angling. Have not, got to run one, so I can't express further thoughts. The D6R is really like an older D7. Getting too big for its class or size. Like the L series dozers. Got too big for the size or class, then was downsized to the N series. The PAT dozer I was wanting for years on that size machine. For cleanup and finishing work. I know the D6N, D6M got it. As for small or midsized dozers , the Hi sprocket ones are heavier. Not what you want some days. Depending on the work. Mechanics I think prefer the Hi sprocket models for ease of working on. How did they come up with the designation of Cat D7E ? Does "E" stand for Electric ? My thoughts anyway.
OK, OK...here's some info. Settle down, everyone, it's only the largest collection of improvements to a dozer ever made at one time, by any manufacturer. OK, it's a 235hp C-9 ACERT (Tier3) engine tied to a generator (in place of the traditional torque converter), which powers a two-motor "propulsion module" through a trio of fully sealed & protected cables. Power is then transferred out to the final drives through a set of short "axle shafts", which are inboard on the main frame. All-electric HVAC system (no belt-driven compressor), converter (instead of alternator), hydraulic fan, seat-mounted controls, single a-post cab (man, you don't see anything but the horizon when you look out the front of this baby) - the front cab post, exhaust stack, and single lift cylinder are all lined up! And, did I mention, this cab is friggin' huge - it's also refined and clean, not muddled up with a lot of useless techno-crap! The cab tilts for easy service, but met a CE writer today, and he said Cat was touting something like 40-50% fewer parts to the drivetrain, so I'm not sure what all could possibly be underneath! It's got a pretty cool "double-hinged" set of radiator doors, so you can actually get in there and clean it if you have to, without having to remove friggin' bolts. Yeh, it's oval track, but Cat knows good and well that they didn't need to take that elevated stuff all the way down to a D4H, for cryin' out loud. Besides, if this machine isn't comin' out until 2009, I'd guess they're still gonna sell the D7R for a little while. As for other manufacturers (of those I've seen thus far), Deere is showing some crazy "quad-trac" copy with a small blade out front (so that's what was under that tarp on their website)...not sure what it would be used for, but looks atrocious and cumbersome...maybe not a "better choice" as previously thought (by others) : ) Lots of good stuff to come, as soon as I can get my photos downloaded!
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums dhjmdls! :drinkup
Well well, this all sounds very good, and Cat probably isn´t bringing out this machine if it isn´t making good sense. But from a mechanical point of view the single cylinder still puzzles me. It is bound to make app. twice the the torque load on the blade than 2 cylinders. I wonder how they stiffened the blade to make up for that. For some reason almost all manufacturers have been using 2 cylinders since the advent of hydraulics some 50 yrs ago. The old cable controlled blades must have been weaker with only a single lift in the middle. I have been wondering why the D6T didn´t change all that much from the D6R; the d8 thru d11 all had new cabs, the D6 didn´t. A low drive electric D6 might be coming soon. And as for the hi drive, one benefit is definitely good ground clearance and a clean bottom. Wonder how the make up for that. It will be interesting to see more pictures....
And by the way, this D7G series II isn´t so old fashioned after all then.....
The D7G II is very much old fashined. It has the cross shaft bevel gear arrangment that is a much pain in the rear to work on. That is for the third world countries were the have to have "gear to gear" technology. I really want to see what the back of the blade looks like, cylinder attachment points etc. It might actually make the blade stronger due to a large triangulated mounted that spans accross the back of the blade. After thinking about this thing while driving I am not reall sure it's abad thing. the two cylinders really didn't do much before because they are plumbed together so the blade can tilt. Now the single cylinder will remain constant while the blade tilts. Just my .02 of course.
How would a person angle the blade if there is only 1 cylinder, what I mean is if you are dozerin' along and you need to level your self off on one side to keep the machine level?
If you mean tilt the blade the tilt cylinder will handle this. It is no different than single cylinder Terex's of the past.
Like posted before if your working in heavy clearing operation the single cylinder is always out front getting scraped on plus the hose assemblys to the cylinder,getting cut or pulled by passing trees limb. Then that times when that big boulder rolls over the top of the blade right over on to the cylinder ram.It bad enough with the other cylinders and they are set back a little more at least.. The old Euclid single cylinder always got loose and sloppy in the linkage.The two cylinder help support the outside supports of the blade,especially when doing a lot of prying with the blade tilted ,cornering into hard material. Just go find yourself and old Terex or Euclid with the single cylinder and run it for a couple hours and you will see how sloppy they are !!!!!!!! As far as the outside plantary finals all the low drive machine are using them. Also far as high drive repair work ,easy of them i'm with Craftman.No messing around with the old roller frames,cross shaft bearing,pressing the sprocket on and off,plus the interseals always leaking because the dead axiles coming lose in the bores case,then having to rebore housing where the dead axile fitted. Lots of other reason i like the high track machine to the old low drive machines ,but this is just a few. Cat please put two lift cylinder back on the machine,i'm willing to pay the extra. It's like when they came out with high tracks and never had the carrier roller for the tracks ,now most all them have them.Because of the tracks flopping when you did a highspeed turn.Just shows none or one isn't enough when you talking dirt moving machine this isn't no skid steer,you know!:usa
This is what gets me most about this new tractor. For decades, Cat (and fitters) have raved on about the advantages of simple dis-assembly and minimum downtime with the hightrack design. Now .. Cat promptly produce, a "new technology" machine .. with an undercarriage that contains all that they sneered at in the past .. low mounted, planetary finals, that are prone to damage, due to bouncing hard on them, coming back over obstructions .. poor ride of the oval track design .. a pivot shaft mounted forward of the final, with all its attendant hassles of bushings that wear, and that misalign the trackframes .. Am I missing something here?? .. or has Cat been spinning a huge line of BS about the advantages of hightrack design?? I've never owned a hightrack, I don't particularly like the design .. and the word is, always, that high track undercarriage rebuilds, cost enough, to make any accountant with a generous chequebook, blanch .. like AU$70,000 for the last undercarriage rebuild on one of my nephews D9L's .. Hopefully, a lot more info will come back from Conexpo to enable us to get a better handle on what Cat have done here .. but at first appearances, it largely appears to be a number of steps backwards .. at the same time as they've taken a couple of steps forwards .. but, hey .. that always appeared to be the case, when hightracks were first presented to us, anyway ..
I don't know of any manufacturer that produces an "off-the-shelf" electrical system for tractors. I don't know if CAT is using suppliers for components, but I'm sure they would as CAT is not in the business of making electric motors. Yet. Parts may have been spec'd out and produced by vendors, but the system is definitely not "off-the-shelf." Off the shelf would have to refer to an electric drive system . If there's an AC system out there that already exists then it would be on another tractor. Again, the old electric systems were DC powered, which, although cheaper to build initially, required more maintenance and are less reliable. As I have posted in another thread, DC is seeing a rapid decline as AC technology is becoming less expensive to develop and implement. This is the first tractor of it's kind--AC. CAT is using the SystemOne undercarriage for the oval-track. I feel one of the main reasons for going oval-track on this machine is due to the incorporation of the SystemOne undercarriage. If the SystemOne is all it is claimed to be, then the benefits of the SystemOne undercarriage should negate any need for an elevated sprocket design on this size of a machine. More details on the SystemOne can be found at: http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=48863&x=7&id=313170 The water pump isn't gear driven. It is an electric pump that will be powered by the electrical system. I don't believe it is any different than if your starter or alternator is faulty. Most heavy equipment customers or shops don't have the tooling or experience to rewind these components. It's more feasible to buy new or remanufactured. Will one be able to send a motor to a rewind shop? I can't say for sure. A customer would have to weigh the difference between tearing apart the propulsion module to gain access to the motors for rewinding vs buying a new or remanufactured propulsion module. The motors will be liquid cooled. There is an auxiliary cooling system that will use jacket water to cool the Power Converter and the electric motors (there are two of them). There are two motors that supply the input to the differential system. There isn't a motor on each side of the tractor, but two motors contained within the propulsion module. The diff steer will still work off of hydraulics. I agree with a lot of people on this thread. This will be a great system. If it works. From what I've heard, this thing pushes like a D8. There's gobs of torque due to the AC motors being able to produce full torque at nearly zero RPMs. I feel CAT has really laid it out there, and a lot is at stake. If it fails, then everyone can say "I knew this was a bad idea," but at least it'll fail on a platform that is CAT's weakest seller. If the system is what it's being hyped to be, then competitors are going to be scrambling, and the D7 may just become number one in the sales logs.
One Post Cab ? Hello Active or passive, Got a ? about the One post cab or ROPS ? I've never seen anything wrong with the current cabs, far as visibility ! I like to have the doors open, when practical, to get real freah air, and hear, smell, the sounds of work ! Stuffy cabs puts guy to sleep like, dulls the senses. Screw that air conditioning. I hate it , creates rhuematism in my shoulders. The drawbacks of the new D7E is the "Glass Doors" . Extremely vulnerable over time ! And it allows all the dust and dirt to enter the cab if open. Where are you going to get a replacement, broken in the field. The steel framed windows and doors , any glass place local, could fit you with a replacement in short order. Got to buy the whole 9 yards , hinge, door latch, seal, etc. Nuts ! EXPENSIVE ! Not good all this glass stuff ! Its a industry prevalent problem, far as replacement cost ! Just some feedback .
I guess we'll finally get the D8's we've been asking for or a different brand since I honestly don't believe that these electric drives will work for us. Yes, I know they claim the electric drives are sealed, but the slop we work in is very corrosive and eats the seals out of everything as it is. I just can't see the seals lasting very long until the sand and water get in and destroy it. Everything gets full of sand and covered by it as well. Oh well, if we go to a different machine, I guess we'll be able to get away from differential steering too as an added bonus. Brian
new tec Well thats caused some intresting debate New technology or old technology in a different package ? High drive, low drive, :beatsme. Throughout history mankind has pushed the boundarys of technology and sometimes got severly burnt, well a big bit of egg on the face anyway. Humble pie can be a bit chewy after a while so I will just say, at least C@t haven't sat back and said everything about our machines is perfect, we dont need to look at changing anything. :stirthepot The oval track 6K got a brief mention in passing, there is one on the job I am on it looks to perform very well though I do know it has a heater prob, I believe C@t are going to replace the matrix.
Here's my .02cents worth. For those who doubt the torque of electric drives, please Google "Electric Wheel" or "Soloman technoligies" section. These were made to operate for marine engine propulsion and I doubt if there is a more hostile environment to electrics than sea water. As for negative comments on the single blade ram, it served quite well on terex bulldozers and indeed all cable blade machines including Cats, with zero adverse effects on blade life or control. To the bloke who objects to the windows and air-conditioning, the volume of clean air should be fully adjustable for temperature just like all past machines. Personally I would not drive a car, truck or any machine without windows and intigrated climate control.........C ya..........Ray
FYI - LeTourneau designed, patented and produced, a 120V AC motor in 1948, called the TournaTorque motor - to specifically operate the cable control winches and the electric steering on Tournapulls. This electric motor stunned the industry, and physics professors, alike, when LeTourneau built it .. as it was reputed to be impossible to build. This motor was capable of producing full power in 1/6th of second, were extremely rugged in operation .. and produced the operating characteristics and lugging ability of a series wound DC motor. To demonstrate the ruggedness and to show that the TournaTorque motor was unaffected by water or dirt .. LeTourneau put on a display at the 1948 Road Show in Chicago .. of a TournaTorque electric motor, submerged (and operating) in a drum of water. This motor remained submerged for two years .. and it was regularly operated at intervals, to show that it was still continuing to operate perfectly, despite the lengthy submersion. Surprisingly, when LeTourneau produced his electric wheel, it WAS driven by a DC motor. Why he never used the TournaTourque motor in his electric wheel, is beyond my understanding, but maybe he was going to .. but the Westinghouse buyout threw a wrench in his plans. Not surprisingly, the current line of LeTourneau wheel loaders uses AC drive motors in their propulsion system .. and probably 90% of current LeTourneau technology is based on the pioneering electrical work done by R.G. The only thing that has changed since R.G.'s time, is electronics, and microprocessors that now offer superb control of the otherwise difficult-to-control AC motors. The electrical power system development, that R.G. achieved .. at at time when even the transistor had only just been developed (and the Americans didn't know what to do with that - so they sold it to the Japs!) .. is nothing short of incredible. Well, I guess we could get picky here, and agree that there's no other current crawler TRACTOR with an electric drive system. However, there are three companies that can supply you with an electric propulsion system for your new design, off the shelf. They are Siemens, GE and LeTourneau. Another nephew is currently building six, electric drive, dump trucks of his own radical design .. and those three companies offered to supply the propulsion systems.
What's your question? What kind of feedback are you looking for? L
Cab Hello CE Writer, Perhaps I rambled on too much without clearly stating my question. I see "Glass " becoming more than a window to look through. It's becoming a structural component. Now we are seeing more complex curved planes, with irregular outlines , with the hardware attached to it. I.E. Door handles, windshield wipers, antennaes, heater elements. I'm looking at it from another point. Durability and replacement. Glass damage from flying rock,road gravels, demolition work, land clearing,vandalism, etc. No longer is a simple matter of pulling a rubber gasket out, and popping a new window in. Replacing glass nowadays , has some to be Glued in and cured, creating machine downtime. And securing a replacement takes time also. Are these glass components going to be available 10-20 years down the road ? Why is the trend going this way, vs , steel frames with plate glass, and rubber gaskets ? The " one post " cab ? Is this a one post in the middle to support a canopy for ROPS and FOPS protection? No longer the post on each side.
Here's my theory on the reasoning behind this Electric drive system; Caterpillar is thinking ahead. This D7E is a platform just waiting to have a Hydrogen Fuel Cell dropped in place of the C-9 + Generator unit. A fuel cell converts the chemical energy in hydrogen directly to electricity without the pistons, crankshaft, etc. And the machine is already configured to accept it, right down to the electric air conditioner unit! Just think of how few parts there would be to wear out without a diesel powerplant, not to mention 0 emissions. This is what its coming to Guys.
wow WOW! Bolt thrower, you should be called 'spanner thrower' with that one landing in the pot :notworthy
Hey Bolt thrower, You might be right on the money there. In fact, if the oil price stays high many more manufacturers will join this positive move. Peak oil might do us all a favour to assist in reducing Co2 emissions.......C ya......Ray
I like the Hydrogen fuel cell idea but I think we are light years away from getting off oil. A major advantage in my mind is the steady state engine you will now have. No low RPM acceleration emmissions that are so hard to get rid of, not to mention the increased efficiency, the amount of heat a non lockup torque converter makes is incredible. I will also bet that the glass in the cab doors is like the new K series, Not glass but Lexan/PLexiglass makeup. As to all your other questions on availabillity and structure, I don't know and have'nt really put much thought in it. To be honest I prefer the glue in type myself.
Hey Cartercraft, Hydrogen fuel cells are more common than you think and can replace oil just as soon as major investors come onboard. The waste products to the atmosphere are water and Oxygen. Then the remaining oil can be used for lubrication of heavy gear assemblies. Heat generating torque converters could be used but are not a necessity with electric drives. Google "solomanindustries.com" and search for their drives. To me they look like an infinitely variable system or maybe I'm confused, Again?????.........C ya.........Ray
Fuel cells are becoming more and more common, but I believe there is a ways to go before they will perform reliably when you beat them around on a piece of heavy equipment. If they can get the cost down and make them tough enough, I think there is a great deal of merit to the idea of using them instead of internal combustion. Brian
I don't doubt the practicallity of fuel cells but we are along way from them guys, really. Yeh I was stating the amount of energy wasted in a torque converter kills efficiency, and other things. I can't wait for hybrid tractors, fuel cells and whatever technology they can throw at these machines. I love gadgets and anything people are scared of, so a diesel electric dozer is awesome.
Hydrogen fuel cells have a long way to go yet, before they can be considered a viable alternative to pure diesels. In 2004, Daimler Chrysler bus division undertook a 3 yr, high tech test, of a sizeable number of Mercedes "eco-buses" that were built to showcase hydrogen fuel technology. The buses used the Canadian Ballard hydrogen fuel cell technology, which turns hydrogen gas into electricity in a reasonably cost-effective manner. Ballard hydrogen fuel cells .. http://www.ballard.com/ Perth, Western Australia, was the only southern hemisphere participant in the international trial .. along with Hamburg, Stuttgart, Luxembourg, Stockholm, London, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Reykjavik, Madrid, Porto and most recently Beijing. Most of the cities have finished their trials, while Beijing is close to finishing and Hamburg and Amsterdam have continued on to a fourth year, with nine and three buses respectively. The final report is still being written up on the cost-effectiveness, acceptability, useability, etc etc .. and that may take a while. The general perception is that the technology does has some advantages, but also has disadvantages. The biggest single disadvantage is that there is no reasonably cheap supply of hydrogen, unlike oil .. and that it generally has to be manufactured .. which costs. The local buses ran on surplus hydrogen generated from the local oil refinery .. but that is a very small and finite source if you suddenly decide you want to run a million vehicles on hydrogen. I gotta admit, I was quite taken in by the buses smoothness, quietness (they regularly ran up my street) .. and their speed. They didn't slouch around on takeoff, or have any trouble keeping up 80 kmh. It was also cute to see a wispy trail of steam coming out of the buses vertical exhausts, just like an old loco, but without the coal smoke .. My opinion is that diesel-electric power is a very satisfactory fill-in technology for the next decade or two, until something better comes along. The beauty of D-E power is that engines are running steadily at a set RPM, thus saving fuel and prolonging engine life .. and set RPM's helps manufacturers meet emission levels. All I worry about, is when they produce a D-E crawler tractor that has one-way screws in everything .. the largest number of components are plastic, ABS resin, Kevlar or composites .. and it has a huge sticker on the side of the (sealed) hood with ...... "NO USER-SERVICEABLE COMPONENTS INSIDE" .. :crying: Eco-bus project details, Perth, West Oz .. http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/ecobus/1206.asp Eco-bus newsletter .. http://www.global-hydrogen-bus-plat...- Public/STEP_-_EcoBus_Newsletter_Issue_1.pdf
Yeah, I would have to agree that we're a ways off from being oil independant. But just think how much, say, an underground mine would appreciate a zero emissions machine (or any operation in a confined area). I'm sure they would be willing to pay extra for such a machine. In todays market you have to think ahead, trust me if Cat doesn't pioneer this technology, one of their competitors will! If you think about it, oil is a monopoly, wouldn't it be nice to have a choice what fuel your (fill in blank) runs on? We have a choice on everything else. And don't forget the old proverb: The man who says something cannot be done is often interupted by someone doing it!
R. G.'s first electric scraper. Hi, OzDozer. Yes, R. G. did make an electric drive scraper in 1922, and it was everything else elctric too. However, it didn't stay electric drive for very long. He found that it moved at the 'sprightly' pace of one mile per hour , whether it was loading, hauling or dumping so he ripped the electric drive wheels off and replaced them with un-powered tracks, a la the Athey bottom dump wagons, hung a drawbar on the front and put a Best Sixty up front with a generator to run all the remaining electrics. See the accomanying photos. I understand this is the jigger as it stands today, complete with explanatory plaque. I seem to remember that he reckoned it cost him around $10 mill. to develop his next electric driven wheel and even then it took the development of fibreglass to make it possible. Me, I'm gonna keep my big mouth shut about these noo-fangled eclectical-drive pushing machines until I ackshully git my ample butt in one fer a few hours. I do suspect however that the electrical cables may be cheaper to replace than a double-reduction final drive gear set or a crown wheel and pinion with all its attendant bearings and seals in a conventional drive dozer.
Deas - The info I get is that the new D7-E still has final drives, they've just eliminated the torque converter, powershift tranny, steering clutches and bevel gear. One does tend to wonder what humongous size chunk of cast iron counterweight, the engineers must have hung off the tractor, to make up for all the weight loss .. :beatsme As far as the electrical cables part goes .. I guess you would have a saving there .. but you can wager your last dollar that there's about 30 microprocessors .. a pile of fancy harness connectors .. and a few black boxes full of Chinese silicon chips .. that will definitely set you back about the same amount as a transmission and steering clutch overhaul, when you front the parts counter .. :crying: I also just had a horrible thought. God help us all, if any of this is Windows processor operated. Don't laugh, even your ATM's run on Windows platforms nowadays, along with another huge list of everyday electronic devices, that we deal with on a daily basis .. Conexpo D7-E report .. http://www.khl.com/conexpo/article.asp?articleid=169
powertrain pictures I found this web site. The pictures are not big but you can see the layout of the powertrain. The motor looks to be mounting inside a case group. http://www.designnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6540502
I'm not sure if it matters too much if it's Windows or some other brand of processor. The chips will of course come from China as they make the cheapest. Cheap, not in a derogatory sence, but just a fact of manufacture in large numbers in modern factories. It also looks like the double-reduction final drives are still there. Sorry about that Deas, but that's what increases the torque!!......C ya.........Ray
I guess I'm with the crowd who wants to wait and see what comes of this. I have had my hands in Letourneau scrapers and had lots of hamburger come out. In their day they worked as well as or better than anything else but I sure looked forward to getting hydraulic machines to replace them. Monster contacts, motors that would turn wire rope into nothing but strands of wire, cut off switches that worked occationally and you probably get the idea. I have no doubt there will be problems with the new electric drives also. I know from experience that three phase AC motors are mondo expensive to repair and require many special tools and procedures that are not readily available to many if not most construction companies. However if you never need to repair one, what difference does it make. That will be the litmus test for the system. One issue not brought up here is the safety of the system. What safeguards are there if one of the power cables gets a hole rubbed in the insulation and that leg shorts to the frame of the dozer. Could someone getting off the machine or someone leaning on the machine get lit up? How would they prevent a fire in the same case should there be hydraulic oil leaking into the pan? What are the odds of damage to the electrical system should someone need to weld on the frame or attachments. There are many good points in this thread, a few of which I doubt one person could have thought off and probably a few engineers might not have asked when they designed this model. Those issues will shake out in the first year or two of production. It is nice to see Cat finally do some design work instead of just buying up someone elses ideas. I think they might have the financial deep pockets to make this work. Even if it doesn't pan out they should still be given credit for making the effort to improve efficiency of mid size crawler dozers.
Weight Loss And Compensation. Hi, OzDozer. So they've eliminated the torque converter, transmission, crown wheel and pinion and steering clutches and brakes. They have replaced them with other things like an alternator which I would guess would be quite substantial if it requires 235 hp to drive it, a couple of AC electric motors, which I would likewise guess would be fairly substantial if they can produce half each of 235 engine hp to send to the final drives. Then it appears to have reduction gears that may even be double-reduction gears inboard of the sprockets driving to planetary final drives outboard of the sprockets. Also, there is the differential steering system which might just be a little bit of overkill for a paperweight. It occurs to me that with all that hardware, they may not need much additional counterweight at all. There may be a saving in the number of moving parts but possibly not a lot of saving in the gross weight of all the components in the new jigger over the old. Re the possibility of Windows processors, while I acknowledge that they could still be better, I think they have come a LONG way from the days when Windows 98 crashed on boot-up at its initial launch. Then again, one might hope that they would have improved a bit from those sad days. On the negative side, I have heard that Windows Vista has its fair share of problems. Just the random musings of the uninformed. LOL. :beatsme
That is an interesting concept. The comments about fuel cells also have my interest. We'll see how it goes. I have 2 D8K's , they run about $60 per hour for fuel . It's getting out of hand, glad Cat is thinking out of the box.
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Bolt turner! :drinkup
I didnt read all the post so help me out here. Has anyone said anything about price for one of these machines?
Pricing ? This is not in production yet, just prototype at this stage. Have not heard or run across any price quotes . Northart
The question was asked, and pressed, and Cat declined to give any indication. L
So I guess someone at Cat finally listened to good ole D8Bob. Yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice to see a Cat dozer again.
Well, it WAS peaceful. Hello, Dozer575. It WAS peaceful around here. I sincerely doubt that anybody in Cat's Research or Design departments even momentarily considered the monotonous rantings that you try to pass of as wisdom, no matter what screen name you might choose to do it under. You are entitled to your opinions and I would defend your right to them but that does not give you the right to try to ram them down everybody else's throats. Good, bad or indifferent, Cat Hi-sprocket tractors have a proven record of higher market penetration in the heavy end of the market, D8 and up, than any of their competitors. So are you maintaining that all these customers along with Cat's designers and engineers are completly clueless? I doubt that would win you many friends anywhere. Cat have already explained that they now believe that the hi-sprocket system works best for the bigger tractors, again D8 and up, where they are using the bogie system for the bottom rollers and idlers and that they will be using oval track configuration for many of their smaller models in future. If you are so convinced that they are so wrong about the hi-sprocket system, why don't you stop plaguing the various 'net forums and send them your concerns direct? And Please, post the response here. And would you please post some photos of YOUR jobs.
I know Cat hasn't announced pricing yet, but their normal procedure is to remain pretty consistent with the current model pricing when introducing a new model. With some increase for inflation, etc. I would expect no more than 5 to 10% over current D-7 pricing. I doubt they will penetrate CA very soon, with the exception of government purchasers. The D-7 is an odball size in our country, considered too small for large production jobs, and too big for finish grade work. You just don't see too many of them, except witht the counties and such. I will be excited to see it in a D-6 or D-8 size machine for our market.
oval d7 the oval track d7 has always been produced ,so no one listen as they were already making one
Old style ,the new ones has the outside plantarys for the final drive.:drinkup:usa
does it run on vodka? Sorry guys for destroying the hype, but there are also former soviet union electric monsters out there like this tugboat with tracks look-a-like DET250m2 http://chtzuraltrac.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/100068397/Sell_Bulldozer_Det_250m2.html or this 350 hp modell that looks a little bit more modern: http://chtzuraltrac.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/100068427/Sell_Bulldozer_Det_320.html could just imagine the sound inside the cab in this machine, when the exhaust pipe is up against the front window... I would be really surprised if CAT couldn't make a electric dozer, if the russians have been making them for decades :cool2
Those dozers are just plain "fugly".
High drive Low drive The electric drive has to be a low drive or else the drive system would be where you seat normally is on a high drive machine. The tranys are always low and the cross shaft is high on a high drive.
Russian Diesel-Electric dozers Hi, Sparffo. Welcome to the forum. Where have you been hiding? The Russian diesel-electric dozers have already been mentioned in another thread where the subject of the new Cat D7E diesel-electric dozer came up. How is your Massey-Ferguson 3366 going? And your pedal-steer D6C dozer? Many of the members here would not have seen the photos of that D6C that you posted some years ago over on the Cat sites. Would you like to post them here for those who missed out? Thanks in anticipation.
Hi mate! Hi Deas! Nice to see some internet friends over here also I was reading on ACME Discussion Forums about pipelayers, and got so exited that i had to search for some pictures. I found plenty of pictures and this site! man this is really good! you can have everything, demolition, loaders, dozers and excavators My ** is doing well now! i had to change the steering pump recently, it just quit steering... first i put a "good used one", and ended up working a nother 3 hours chaingin that one to a new, time well spent there... maybe i should upload some pictures of the machines here, the pedal steer D6C is quite rare, not to mention the fishing boat look-a-like ROPS cab it has at the moment i have some service work to do on it, blade cylinders and oils. maybe even put a back hoe on it! Have a nice day! here in finland it snow storms, and people are wrecking cars quite badly
Pictures. Hi, Sparffo. I think many people here would like to some photos of your D6C when you have time. As you said, it is a rare beast. The ** 3366 may be of interest to some too. I can still remember quite clearly being told by a certain 'expert' that there was no such animal as an ** 3366, despite the fact that I had run one for a while. Drive safely.
CEWriter, I have some questions. (1) How are the speed ranges changed? What I mean is on most motor speed change systems motor HP/ torque, out put is lowered as speed is slowed. On a dozer when you shift down you want high torque. (2) When is Cat going to offer a large size dozer as a conventional oval track unit? (3) What is the operating voltage range for these traction motors? (4) What is the percentage of power loss converting rotating motion from the engine to electricity and then back again to rotating motion. And the difference between the Electric drive dozer as compaired to a standard gear drive dozer? And consider a lockup converter. (5) Are the motors high effciency permanent magnet motors? (6) If this comes to be will all dealers be set up to do motor rebuilding and rewinding? (7) During operation is the engine speed set to one position, and no decelerating being done at all? (8) How can a person have a chance to field test one of these, to see if any problems crop up?
:nono You have exceeded the maximum allowed number of questions per post. :Banghead In the future, please limit the number of questions to no more than 4(four) per post. rofessor And welcome back :drinkup
** Hi Deas, was that a track shovel with a backactor on it.? My first mount @13yrs, was what became the MF40R and it had a 4 digit number. maybe 2205? a tractor with front shovel, and a backactor that you sat on top of the kingpost, 4 levers + 2 for the legs. It became the MF40R (torque converter f/r) with an all in 1 cab If you really wanted to you could take everything off and have just a tractor
** 3366. Hi Rob. The one that I ran was a track loader with rear-mounted rippers - approx. Cat 941 size give or take a smidgin and it didn't do too badly either. I spent most of my time on it boxing out roads and loading the spoil straight into trucks. It was mostly fairly sticky orange clay and the jigger didn't any trouble digging it straight out of the road bed. The odd shale patch required a tickle with the ripper and the ripper with 3 shanks was also handy when mining for old copper pipes from old domestic water connections. It brought 'em up all nicely wrapped around the shanks, ready to peel off and load into the car boot. Scored a bit drinking silver from that - I drank in those days. The jigger had 2 speeds forward and reverse with a dogleg shift pattern, quite easy to get used to. I actually enjoyed running it - - - 'cos it burned diesel fuel, made noise and moved dirt. LOL.
3366 heres one ,classic plant mag has been doing the history of ** industrial i cut my teeth on a ** 40 of late 70s vintage
** Thanks Deas, I knew the number was good, just not sure of the configuration. Looking at that sheet d4c24a has loaded I think it was the 2244 that had the same backacter as the MF40R. So so long ago Hi d4c24a, still a piano, ( 4+2 levers ) just you missed the pleasure of sitting outside to learn Those were the days eh! Thinking about it it must have been about 1973 that (our) 40 arrived as I used it prior to full employment in mid 74. :drinkup
joy o joy 4+2 and the joys of trying to loosen the backhoe bolts to move it across i must dig some pictures out cheers graham
I have some videos on youtube from a house demolition job we made with my MF3366 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yriqs5tj9w i will try to convince my wife that she has to come and take some more movie clips! i will have to figure out something to do first maybe i could rip and load some frozen ground
What became of them??????????????? Hi, Rob. Yep, there was a 2244 for a while. It became the ** 200 track loader and the 3366 became the ** 300. At about the same time, they brought out a 400 model and I think I vaguely remember seeing a 600 model too. I also think there was some sort of tie-up with Hanomag of Germany for a while too.
Dozer 575/D8Bob questions Hi, Folks. I'm no expert but I thought I'd take a lash at answering some of the above questions from the inestimable Mr D8Bob. Some of them are no-brainers. F'rinstance, #1. I'm no expert but I'd have thought that they would strive for a stepless speed increase system along the lines of the hydrostatic drive infinitely variable system. Virtually all the electric drives I have seen up to date, albeit mostly stationary systems with the exception of diesel/electric and electric locomotives have all had infinitely variable, stepless speed control. Also, I understand that most electric motors produce their greatest torque at or near stall. Check this link: http://www.yanceybros.com/index.php/www/company/news_and_events/734 #2 - Please D8Bob, hold your breath waiting for Cat to bring out their bigger models in oval track. If you had read and understood the Cat explanation of why they have reverted to oval track with this machine, you would now know that they now regard the high-sprocket design as being better suited to the larger models, D8 and up, which have the bogie system for the bottom track rollers and idlers. #3 - again, a little eyes-open reading would have elicited the information that this system runs on 480 volts: http://www.contractjournal.com/Arti...xclusivecatlaunchesd7eelectricdrivedozer.html #4 - again, according to the 'blurb' in the link above, which is all we have to go on at the moment since there are as yet none of the little jiggers running around the hills proving anything, the new system will be 10% MORE efficient than the old torque converter-powershift system. #5 - I read somewhere earlier that the electric motors were of the AC Induction type - brushless but still requiring permanent magnets to operate. You can read more about them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor #6 - wait and see. I'd suspect an exchange program might be the 'go'. #7 - about constant engine revs or decelerating. Now I'm no expert but I'd have thought that constant revs would be a must to keep current voltage and amperage constant. Again, a little eyes-open reading would have elicited this information. #8 - buy a HUGE block of shares in Cat - or go and get a job in their testing department.
** fftopic Thanks for the vid link Sparrfo, looks like you were really enjoying yourself Hi Deas, I believe you are correct about Hanomag, suppose we better leave this now or we will get in to trouble for hijacking.
Hijacking? What Hijacking??????????????? Hi Rob. :ban
Dear activeorpassive, Dear offroad dump truck experts, I just read some of your comments here in this forum and I would like to ask you some questions. Currently I'm working on a study concerning the electric drive system of mining trucks (offroad dump trucks) at university in Germany. Do you think it would be possible to get in chat about this issue? Via, email, telephone or messenger services? From your comments I figured that you are pretty knowladgable in offroad heavy dump trucks. Since I'm new to this forum I hope my message reaches the right people and is in the right place here It would be nice to get an answer to this message, either here of via email ( [email protected] ). Thanks in advance very much. Bear
I looked at the above photos. Thanks for that. My comment is that one hose to the tilt cylinder looks exposed to damage by timber. Maybe its been left like that for testing???, and will have guards on final design??........C ya......Ray
Made me look now. It looks to me like in the one picture, the hose is out there, and there is no guard. In most of the others, I see a nice tidy guard, and the hose is no where to be seen. Did you notice the first two pics are different tractors? One has a yellow tilt cylinder with guards, and the other has a black cylinder, with the hose hanging out waiting to get snagged on something.
On one of the pictures i noticed the tilt cylinder hose also running across the radiator grill behind the lift cyclinder.Tilt cylinder hose in clearing has always been a probably. Doesn't the D7G tilt hose run through the push arm:beatsme.Seem like them and the 8's did.Can't remember anything anymore!!!!!!:usa
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums BearEU! :drinkup
The old D8Hs for sure had the hoses in the C frame,I think the K did too.I am too lazy to look at my old pics to say for sure.If you happen to blow a tilt hose that cavity would get loaded with oil and it was impossible to get it all out and you would see trails of oil from time to time after the repair thinking that some other hose might be leaking.Ron G
opening a thread Hi Countryboy, are you familiar with haul trucks, mining truck, dump trucks? Do you know how I could open up a thread concerning this topic? Thanks, BearEU
Tilt hose routing Hi, RonG. Only the last of the D8H's had the tilt hoses running through the right push arm like the K series. All the earlier 46A series machines had the tilt hoses coming out through the radiator grille and looping down to the back of the blade. The D9G's were pretty much all set up like this too.
LOL.That was easier than looking through all my pics.Thanks Deas.Ron G
Yer welkum, Sir. Hi, RonG. Yer welkum, Sir. Come again sometime. LOL.
Questions Welcome aboard BearEU. Once you have made 3 ? ( think it was 5 but got reduced )posts you will be able to start a new thread of your own. There is an awful lot of info on here in previous posts and also direct from members. Not everybody gets here every day and it might take a while to get the answers you desire. I suggest you have a poke about in the search option. All the things you want info on are covered here in different catagories.
Note to self... Do NOT offend Deas...LOL. Good to be back on the forum and looking at all of the responses. I'm learning quite a bit here. :notworthy I've been working on the electric drive OHT quite a bit lately, so I don't get to visit the Forum nearly as often as I would like.
dhjmdls-that deer dozer you r describing is the new "high speed dozer" used for light grading etc. looks to me like a glorified grader but whatever. A retired cat man told me that the high track has some good points in the bigger machines, but in stuff smaller than a 7 you are better off with a oval track, the additional fuel used does make it worth while. The electric idea is a winner for most in my h.o. You burn less fuel & can move more, as long as it holds up.
Offend???????????????????????????????? Hi, Activeorpassive. Welkum back. Offend?????????????? Me????????????????? I think you may have your wires crossed. LOL. That particular gentleman has been such a dedicated and persistant PITA for so long on so many forums that there is no way I'm going to foster any chance of him being even faintly deluded into thinking that I'd welcome his reappearance. As I said, it WAS peaceful - and it looks as if it might be again for at least a little while. Catchyalater.
The hi-track question is simple, it just costs more and people are not buying Cat equipment just cuzz it says CAT on it anymore. we have to be competitive and the higher production cost of a small to midsize dozer with a hi-track design is starting to put us in a bad spot as far as market share. we have better grades of steel now days plus smaller dozers arnt typically going to be in the ultrahigh impact enviroments of the larger D8+ dozers. theres to many players now and Cat doesnt have a distinct advantage as far as quality and parts availability that will stop the bleeding from a $30k higher price tag than one of our competitors machines. I think most people prefer CAT except when they see the bottom line and then they are more willing to gamble with competitors machines. Im eager to test the new D7E, I cant wait to feel 100% Torque at idle lol. I leave the first of june for The proving grounds in Peoria for a fun filled 2 weeks of becoming more intimate with Cats latest breakthroughs. i will try and keep u guys informed.
So how did this thing work in dirt I know this is old post and threads , But I can say without a doubt that The D7E with trash package in a landfill is great on fuel compared to the D8R and D8T but no one likes it its got the power but the machine as a whole cant compete with a D8 in the trash the have a weight disadvantage and its very apparent when playing with it , The life expectency from the drive motors vs how much they cost does not seem so hot either lucky ours just got replaced under partial warranty to a new style redesigned motor whatever that means , so we should be ok for another 11k hrs or so hopefully . I would be curious as to how many people on here have to deal with a D7E and get there opinions on it im sure its great in some applications in ours it is not for the volumn of trash we get daily.
it sure looks like a great idea to me.. I had not heard of any issues with the drive motors yet till you just mentioned it. as far as comparing a 7 to an 8.. one will always be heavier than the other. if you need that weight you will end up with the heavier machine.
yeah they have an updated drive motor for them now , not sure how long it is supposed to last but if we had been under 8000 hrs our failure would have been replaced for free, as it is it cost us 16k just for the drive motors if we had had anymore hrs on it it would have been payying the whole cost of the drive motors
16K for one motor in 11K hours sounds like less than 2 bucks/hour budgeted for replacement?
well I guess the cost isnt as bad as I was told on these things .I looked up the cost of 2 stators and 2 rotors just those parts come up to 27k then add in the labor of removing the whole propulsion group and all the misc o-rings and parts and it is probaly about the same cost as doing a d8r tranny ... our particular unit had both motors replaced and was partially covered uner warranty , im not sure how much the warranty covered but it appears to have bean a signifigant amount .
Don't these tractors only have 1 motor and use diff steer?
Not sure I would be ok with needing to replace such a substantial part at 11,000 hrs. In this day and age, I would hope these tractors could make 15,000+ hours, not?
these new updated motor's are supposed to have a 12,000 hr life so I was told, but I think a little research is in order , the originals went bad on mine at just over 8300 hrs , only one motor was fried but cat did both of them under the prorated warranty and update work
D7E has 2 motors, now im not sure if they are combined power and then use some kind of differential steer or if one motor per track . I'm triing not to know alot about my unit unless its a pm or ac broke or a simple leak somewhere basically the bull work , so far everytime it quits moving a call to Cat has been required.
"No user serviceable parts inside"........lol Ed
Some pictoors of these motors sitting on the bench would sure be appreciated.....
if you have access to cat parts store or sis look up a d7e mdb prefix best i can offer , I never made it down to cat when it was apart
well after the cab is off and the propulsion group is pulled out as an assy its all just nuts and bolts in reallity it all repairable just not by me lol
Hello I am looking for transmsission data such as gear ratio of differential steering and both final planetary drives. Hydraulic steering motor's nominal torque and power and electric motor's nominal cuurent (A), I know it's working on 480VAC nominal voltage. Could anybody please help me?
Why? I think you would have to contact a cat engineer to get info like that. These things have there place im sure but i havent figured out where that place is , other then military use as a 3 phase genset on tracks .