I was out this morning driving in our winter wonderland. Yesterday morning it started snowing heavily for a few hours over 20 inches of snow fell. Its well below freezing -6C so traction is pretty good. Saw this truck stuck in an intersection. He just came up a moderately steep hill then tried to turn with the trailer still on the hill. I'm pretty sure if he had gone straight and then turned on level ground at the next intersection he would not have spun out. I bet his GPS told him to turn there as its the shortest route back to the highway. Looks like a fun spot to put chains on.
Here's a fine example of experience--with drivers and mechanics. Told the boss yesterday what I found, removed wheels this morning to show him. Roughly the 6th set I've found since I left. When you folks look at this photo, stop and think just how many are on the road at this minute just like this, with air disc it's way more common than you think. *
In post above--I wasn't talking about my experience--rather the lack of by the individual who worked on and inspected it three days before.
Pads? What are those? Curiosity, how thick are new disc pads?
11/16" thick. It's metal on metal outboard, inboard 1/8" left. Trouble is thickness is checked with wheels on with a gauge for minimum, and trouble is only inboard can be checked with wheels on. The outboard pad is always thinner because the caliper never floats properly even when new. These are Bendix not Wabco, the Bendix is harder to check than Wabco with wheels on. But I figured out just how far the boot bellows extend, that gives a very good indication of when it's time. In order to properly check disc brakes wheels have to be removed, plus it's way easier to spot dampness in rotor vents from oil seeping at wheel seal. * I did give a local DOT guy a short schooling on what to look for, he admitted they didn't show that in training. {look at all the tickets and out of service you've been missing}.
A lot of these guys wait till they are stuck before lock the power divider. Just spent 2 days driving around with the boss's son. I think he's 19. He's been driving all summer. His father wanted me to show him how to use the big float. Allergic to the power divider. Got stuck in the snow a couple times. Truck had an 18 speed. Splits every gear up and down. Hinted that he didn't have to do that. Mentioned skipping gears. Says he likes to shift. OK. Said if you come up to the stop sign a bit over center, you won't have such a hard time getting around the turn. That's how dad showed him. Never looks in his mirrors or glances at a gauge. I just stuck to showing him how to chain on
A great way to cull the herd, stop building equipment as though it's a King Ranch High Sierra. No more heated 8 way adjustable seats, aluminum door panels, A/C & heat only/freeze or fry. No fancy interiors, basic utility built, no cruise control. Drivers got by without it years ago, they can get by without it now. The industries grew this mess, amenities doesn't make drivers, it attracts and builds lazy behavior.
There would be a lot better drivers if they had to start with a 671 and a 10 speed
To add--my old company started installing auto/school bus chains about 9 years ago. The safety/HR person talked the owner/s into it--safer that chaining up less damage due to loose/lost chains/less expensive in the long run, less setting waiting for roads to clear. Didn't happen, I gave him my opinion at the time. Cost was $3,500 per truck, which didn't include constant maintenance from use when used. Many that used them wouldn't get out and install drag chains on trailers-which is still required, and many still just sat parked and wouldn't drive even when roads were plowed/sanded. Push button stuff that wasn't cost effective. Not sure but I think the next batch won't have auto chains.
Can't even find experienced auto drivers, 5 state patrolman have been hit in the last week. One died, people in cars need to remove their heads from their butts too.
Bad wreck today on 512 near Puyallup ^
People in cars need to remove their heads from their phones. Shopping for a new truck - it's like pulling teeth to spec a heavy haul tractor with an 18 speed. Everything is automatic now. Every dealer I've talked to across all the brands is telling the same story. I'll keep my manual truck for as long as I can, but I'm under-trucked for some of the new equipment we have, so something will have to give eventually. If I had the shop space, I'd rebuild a pre-emissions truck and run with that. Less computers, sensors and BS to go wrong.
It isn't just phones. * I brought this up about 9 years ago, Eaton gear boxes will become hard to get, used or new. Cummins is saying only AMT's behind their engines starting soon. Eaton doesn't want to continue building several lines of transmissions when 80% plus orders are for AMT's, same with Freightliner. Manual boxes will become a thing of the past before long. There are thousands thinking the same, will rebuild old units, but that too will come to a end due to parts supply and the fact buyers want super high mileage warranty which most are suppling up to 750,000 miles.
The old Roadranger plant in Shenandoah, IA closed at the end of 2016. 500,000 ft2 of manufacturing space. A small crew stayed on for a few years longer, but it completely closed a few years later. Most all the work went to Mexico. Cheaper to build a greenfield site for the new AMT than retool the old plant.
For years the internal parts were built in Canada and UK. Around 2000 parts were starting to come from Mexico, bearings from China. When rebuilding a 18913A, parts sent were 16913A for rebuild gears. So when done it's rating was no longer a 18913A, but a dukes mixture. The torque ratings were based on heat treating processes used on gears, Eaton supplied the lower rating for a higher rated box. Which was technically BS on their part.
Dumbing down--built like a U-haul so anyone can drive it. All interior controls and concept gives the feeling when driving of nothing more than a large pickup. Only things that stand out once in drivers seat is to remember length/height/weight and stopping distance. The dash screens have audio/yellow flash alerts with crash avoidance systems and audio that warns when not centered in lanes, low clearance, following distance too close. People/older drivers use the term {steering wheel holders}--well that's all there is to do even for the experienced is hold the wheel, use turn signal stalk and roll the shift stalk to D-N-R and select performance mode over economy mode. Every function is located on steering wheel or column, with typical bank of toggle switches for lights and sundry items on dash. Jake is located on shift stalk lever by raising lever, manual mode fore & aft same stalk /lever. Not much different than driving a King Ranch Quad Cab, your sons & daughters & wives can easily drive. Not that anyone's family members are stupid but the industry has removed the idea that only people who live with dirt under their nails are able to drive Class 8's. And if equipped with auto chains only two drag chains to install on trailer and some states only one. A person with only a thumb and fore finger on each hand can drive it.
These days are disappearing. *
Interesting and informative discussion...I do know that here in the BC interior it would be difficult to find any log hauler or low bed operator driving anything but an 18 speed manual. This goes along with tri-drive and 24.5's. Sound like it may get difficult to spec trucks this way in the future....
any of our new trucks lately have been automatic with the manual being a longer wait and more expensive. New float truck is an AMT. Never tried the AMT yet, but my only complaint about the auto is how they sometimes shift down a bit too hard when coming to a stop in slippery conditions. I notice a few more tri drives around here now. Mostly wood haulers. One company has a vac truck that is a tri drive. They must eat tires.
I miss that dash and the funny shaped clutch peddle. The signal flasher that sounded like a big set of contacts ka tic ka tic ka tic
Same down here, always certain groups that just know it won't work, until it does.
I guess the automated transmissions by now are pretty reliable and under manual mode allow for similar control to manual shift?
Correct--The early models left alot to be desired, newer ones are pretty simple with ratings of 165,000 lbs. But as said at top of thread the industries wanted this stuff, want easy to operate with ton's of options creating a troubleshooters paradise. The money won't be in who fixes it, it will be the one who can troubleshoot it. Finding the problem is the key these days. There is a art to good troubleshooting--divide and conquer is the best approach.
We've got the Volvo auto in our tri-axle dump trucks. Honestly they've been bullet proof for us. They're run by very grey haired fellows that were extremely skeptical after 50 years of driving manuals. They're pretty good for the most part, and when they're not, you just switch to manual mode and override it. We gross 80k lbs in a straight truck, and when it's towing, we're around 120k lbs. Everyone who's driven it agrees that it's nice in traffic. I personally don't find it great on soft ground. I can usually get way further in to soft sites with my manual truck. We also only have the 12 speed, so no bull low. The newer versions have added that.
A huge difference between days of yore and now with transports. {Quiet}. About every two to three weeks I get a call to run to Pasco in a Cascadia to pickup either another that's had warranty/service work and/or hook to a trailer and bring it back also. I don't care for all the plastic amenity features, but I do like the quietness--no gear train noise. I can hear the engine at a very low level without transmission noise, unlike total manuals. Which causes less brain/hearing fatigue. The other is vision, can see what's in front of you plus defrosters are way better than any old trucks. Steering--turns on a dime even as a four axle, as far as ride, better than most $90,000 dollar pickups.
Several years ago, I drove a Volvo with one of those 12 speed Auto-shift boxes for 2 days. I was impressed how well they worked but I think they belong on flat ground. I was hauling out of a local quarry that had several hard pulls, and did not like the way it shifted. I used the manual mode unless I was on flat ground. Here comes the "ol geezer" part.... Back in the day, when a young man was learning to drive a truck, being able to learn how, when and why to shift, showed he had some mechanical aptitude that I think is necessary to handle an 80,000 Lb truck and all that came with it. Learning how to shift was like a litmus test, if one could not grasp the concept, then it was probably not for him/her/they/them. Some one jumping into a big truck without that "mechanical intuition" never seemed right. But like TS said, them days is gone. I'm glad I'm watching from the sidelines. JMO
Last summer hauling grain, pull up on top of short steep grade and see the farmers son walking up the hill towards me. He stalled out loaded with truck/ trailer { I wasn't thinking and thought I was in second but I was in third and it just pulled down with throttle on the floor}. We walked down to said truck partially jack knifed. I made sure interlock was in went for low gear {13spd}. Eased the clutch out with slight fuel and crawled to the top with him standing on step holding onto mirror. {Damn I'm glad you were here--you won't tell dad will you, I'm already minus part of my butt from yesterdays screwup with the tarp}. lol
I guessing it was a learning moment for him?
Funny thing is that young guy is top notch in a hill side combine.
And a hillside combine would not be a place for me!
Experience--is gained with winter. All has to do with knowing ambient temp and type of snow at that temp. Including proper speed--not to fast not to slow. To slow on a high super or to fast for steering & traction. Powder fairly good traction, wet turns into a rink. Or just pull over and park-is the safest sometimes, ego's cause wrecks. Common was three years experience winter driving with chain up, now it doesn't matter.
Crispy cold is great, do nothing to get wheel slip or slide, or you lose all that advantage. I need to teach my niece's boy about snow driving. He is a good kid and very nervous about it. Personally I sit on the fence about getting my medical renewed in May. My CDL does not define me. It was a tool I used for employment and that show is over.
Nothing will teach you how to drive in the snow like a light weight, high hp car. If it's got AWD you've got a recipe for real fun. It'll teach you real quick how to drive like there's an egg under the throttle, or when you can go full bore. Years ago I had a tuned subaru, 450hp at the wheels. Was an absolute animal, but would eat you alive if you didn't know how to drive it. I'm a firm believer that anyone driving in winter conditions should spend some time on a skid pad with varying types of vehicles, that, and learning to drive manual cars and trucks...but that's a lost art these days.
Most kids will never know rear wheel drive . We used to blast around, see who could hang onto the rear bumper thr longest
Actually nothing will teach like a call at 1:30 am. {Mike! you awake? WSP called, one on it's side and two wadded up MP 97 I-90 and over a 1/4" freezing rain, meet Kevin down at the shop. You'll take the Freightliner Kevin the Kenworth} as I hang up the phone eyes full of sleep, it's time to get the "A" game going.
I will admit I got halfway around in my diesel truck the other day on a hairpin ramp. I never drive in 4wd. It does not take much of an excess to lose an empty RWD with possibly a little oil on wet pavement. It had not happened in a long time but 700+ foot pounds of easy torque is no joke.
Tires do a lot
Longer wheelbase = better longitudinal stability. 140" is not much.
Remember a WSP call for a incident on Rye Grass I-90. When we got there it was a set of joints pointed up hill west bound in east bound lanes, did a 180*. Never hurt anything, had WSP block traffic and a sand truck covered both lanes, just turned it around. Best Way freight would swap trailers in Vantage between Seattle/Spokane. The driver refused to get back in truck to drive the 5 miles to Vantage, so we drove it. Turns out that was the last he drove, he quit, another Best Way driver confirmed.
his underwear was over capacity. My short tractor is so much better with a trailer behind it.
Pass seat full of hot dogs too