We just bought a 2002 D3G XL It was overheating and we removed the gumbo that has packed under the radiator. it seeems to help, but Cat said that the fan should be blowing out. Its not, it is sucking air over the engine. This seems normal but another dozer operator also said it is supposed to blow. The fan only goes on one way...any help out there? I dont have the manual yet to check this out. Thanks for any answers
lol, you'll be fine....if CaT designed it to suck it should suck....just because they wear a CAT shirt and drive a truck dosent automatically mean they know anything. I think the reason for the fan to be "reversed" was to blow the hot air away from the operator in the summer time As far as it running warm, since the rad was packed you may take some time and wash it out good with a power washer, you would be surprised how easy they will over heat with just a little air restrictions, there are tons of things that could be a possible problem with overheat. EDIT:....just a question but, wouldnt the motor run a little cooler if the fan was pulling cool air through the rad instead of pushing warm air from the enj compartment?.......and besides that, if you get stuck the pull fan will help you move forward, that's how an air plane works lol Pj
My 2003 D4G has a blower fan on it from the factory, not sure if they made a sucker fan. The only way you're going to get it to run cool is to take the radiator off and wash it out with a pressure washer from my experience. I tried everything I could think of before I finally took it off and washed it. Now you can't make it get hot. It's really not that much work to get it off. After re-reading your post, you say it's sucking air over the engine. I'm not sure what you mean by that, but it should blow air out the front of the radiator. It should blow your cap off your head when you walk in front of the blade with the engine revved.
A dozer should blow air out the front unless it has a reversible fan fitted that allows cleaning. If the fan has ever been out and refitted the wrong way it will suck air over the engine.
All the dozers we have blow out the front. Even the old D8L had a pusher fan on it.
When i was growing up my dad had a International tracked loader 125E 1976. It had a reversible fan. You would push in on the blades and turn them to change direction. This made it much much nicer in the winter time for the operator. The recommended position was blowing out of the machine. He had a 4in1 bucket on it and did alot of land clearing and burning. With the fan blowing out the front, he would clamp down on a big bucket of brush, walk up to the burn pile, then hold the brush just above the pile and let the engine rev while the tracks were in neutral. The engine fan would fan those flames so good that the bucket full of brush would catch fire real good before he would let go of it and drop it on the top of the fire. My dad was my hero growing up, he had a trick for just about anything and i am yet to see anyone as good as he on a tracked loader. That loader, a dump truck, and a tilt trailer alone supported our family for 17 years alone. Then... dad bought a pc110 excavator w/thumb in 1991... Poor loader has been sidelined for the most part since. He still has the loader. He is quite proud of it. It had a special paint scheme for the centennial in 1976 with a white ROPS and Chrome stack on it.
hmmmm, Kattracs, Mayeb thats your problem the fan is runing backwards.....maybe you put the battery cables on wrong and the motor is spinning the wrong way? lol. No really tho, wash your radiator, and check to make sure your fanbelt isnt on the wrong side of the pully and the fan and water pump is running backwards....are you sure the fan is sucking? Pj
I am pretty sure that a fan will blow air in the same direction no matter which way it is fitted since if you reverse the fan it will be turning in the opposite direction but will be 180 degrees in orientation so the air travels in the same direction, however some fans have a rounded profile so will move air better when fitted in the right side up. Some machines were available with either pusher or puller fans as an option. so I think it is a preferential thing rather than it works one way and not the other. Mine has a pusher fan on it and as others have said a good clean of the radiator has always fixed my temperature problems.
The most important reason at least in the older machines for it to blow out was to reduce wear on the radiator from particles of dirt and sand that would be sucked in from the front of the machine, especially on a track loader. We also had a reversible fan on one machine and it would provide a lot of heat in the winter. The machine had a grille under the dash and it would even get too hot on your feet.
Ahhhh, warm feet in winter, then you can almost endure anything!
Before cabs on equipment the fans were reversible because in the cold winters you placed duck cloth curtains on dozers from the radiator along side of the engine and around the operator to keep the operator warm and in the summer time you would blow out to reduce the heat and dust on the operator
I'm kinda thinking along the lines with powerjoke, are you certain the fan is turning the proper rotating direction? If it's a pusher fan with curved profile blades, and is running running backwards, it will suck air, but not near as efficiently as would be rotating proper direction. Just a thought.
If the fan is sucking, it is sucking 180 F or higher air over the engine as the air must go through the rad. But if it's blowing its pulling ambient temp air through the engine side panels and the engine bay runs a lot cooler. The little bit of heat it grabs helps to cool the engine and will not be enough to effect the rad temp. Sometimes little things can go a long way.
Gosh guys thanks for all the info. It looks like we have springs on the blades. I think they are reversible. I will try tomorrow and see. It has an open cab, but heater vents are working. I'm in Houston and this Dozer may have come from up North. We did change water pump, thermostat and rinsed the front really well. No overheating today.
Yeah springs is exactly what the reversible fans have on them near the hub. I remember using something like a T wrench (like you would use to turn on a quarter turn water valve) to turn the blades. Just make sure you have them pushed in enough before you start twisting. I think someone would bump the starter to get to all the blades. Its been a few years.
Fans on equipment are usually loose enough to turn by hand to access the blades. I sometimes used a small board to tap the ends of the blades to force them down enough to turn them as they tend to get lodged in the socket after a while.A nice hardwood grade stake works well there.A shot of penetrating oil can be a good thing each time you move them from push to pull. As stated,removing the fan and turning it around does not change the direction of air flow.Ron G
one should make sure the fan belt is tight. with engine off belt should be tight enough that one cannot turn the fan by hand without turning the engine. been there done that
You can still buy the reversable fans, push and turn. i turn mine now and then to keep radiator clear but generally suck in winter, blow in summer. on the fixed fan i am sure you can unbolt it and turn it over, (watch your knuckles). if you're still overheating, power wash the radiator like prev. post mentions.
I don't think that I have ever seen a belt so tight that you couldn't spin the fan without turning the engine over on a diesel engine.You might have to select a direction to spin it but usually one way or the other will slip.Ron G
Ron is right. Been thinking about this all night. Its a hard concept to get my head arround but its true. :notworthy
that's right because the blades are angled the same when you flip it.. rod
come try to slip the belt on my d75s. it ran hot under load till i tightened it. couldnt keep the trans fluid cool.
If you do actually have a reversible fan ,the blade shafts will definitely have springs on them , pushing against the big center hub. If you cannot push them in by hand do not pound on the blades. Old blades quite often are very thin from the abrasive action of the dirt and even worse sand in the airstream. It is very easy to ruin the blades by bending them. Give all the shafts a good shot of penetrating oil. Then if you do have to pound them in -- pound on the heavy steel bracket that the blade is riveted to. I have reversed a lot of fans and once in a while you will have one with so much fine dirt inside the hub that they cannot be reversed. Usually the one that won't go in far enough to release is the last blade on the fan you are reversing ! When you are done reversing them double check to see that you didn't miss one and that they all are fully extended in the locked position. If you do have one that didn't lock it will turn until it is flat and not moving any air. That blade will cause the radiator to overheat. .
Sucking or blowing? An interesting subject you brought up here. I know that most dozers and loaders have had blower fans for decades. (with the option of reversible blades) I am less familiar with excavators and digger loaders in this respect. Do they blow or suck?
blow, there is a 220 John Deere on the jobsite that will cook you as you walk by (we are doing ditching so lots of walking close to the machine). Face high blowing hot air... i just stay in the truck when working with that machine.
Spent many yrs on TD 15Cs in NZ with reversible fans, some times we would turn the blades a couple of times a day to keep the radiator clean secially in the summer time. Easiest way was to loosen fan belts then you could spin the fan by hand but just make sure they lock into place. Cheers RDG
Like everyone is saying flipping a standard fan will not change the way it blows. It can however cause overheating as the fan is less efficient, seen it happen and very hard to diagnose if you're not thinking of it.
I've had reversable fans over the years they are kind of a luxury but come with problems. 1 if the operator doesn't understand how they lock and make sure they are locked they can turn and possibly take out the rad. 2 If you don't turn them they get stuck. 3 Have seen a blade come off and go thru a D8 rad. I finally decided for our climate a fixed blow fan was best with engine enclosures and a perforated hood which prevented grass, leaves etc from plugging the fins. Most of the debris would stick to the engine enclosures and you just swept it off by hand
All of the Excavators ive owned or seen has sucked. the clean out screen is on the outboard side of the radiator so you can clean it. most even have swing out coolers for easier cleaning Pj
our family D7 Had a reversable fan. I have it blow out year round. But when my dad bought it my dad had rebuild the entire fan with new bearins springs etc. ofter the rebuld it alot eaiser tp flip em but we had quit flipen em.
Here's a picture(hopefully) of a reversible fan for a G series. I didn't realize they were an option since they have a heater...
could it be that it's trying to blow thru the radiator but can't cuz it's too dirty. So then the air has to come back towards the engine? Just a guess cuz I'm no mechanic.....:drinkup
Well, in that case the engine surely would overheat. Unless the radiator is totally blocked some air will be forced thru it regardless of the direction of the fan.
Its a good idea to periodically flush the core with high pressure water, opposite to the direction of the fan/flow and not to high a pressure that u cause the fins to bend cause sometimes they might look clean but I have seen very fine dust build up in a core and although it looked clean the dust was retaining the heat and causing over heating. Wash out with water and the problem was gone, fan belts not tight enough will also cause heating problems. Cheers RDG
In our 155 it is as simple as turning a dial to the clean setting and bingo the radiator is clean. You can also leave it in reverse all day if so desired.
HI guys i got a thought if it has a serpenting belt like my case check and see if maybe the belt can be routed around the water pump diffrant .I have seen some on cars and trucks now days you could put the belt on two diffrant ways and it will fit but makes your fan or other stuff run the wrong way .JUST A THOUGHT.:usa
If your D3 is still overheating, check these out... Some oil coolers and A/C condensor cores run in front of the radiator. Make sure there is nothing between them. shine a light on one side and try to see through the core(s). If you cannot, you will need to take a pressure washer (Or a thin wire if you want to be delicate) and clean it out. Fins will need to be combed straight. Only other things I can think of is a stuck thermostat, a sick waterpump or loose fanbelt.
Dirt hauler thanks we have tried just pushing in with our hands. Great info even if y'all are a bunch of jokers.
Puffie. We changed the thermostat and water pump even tough they both look good. It isn't overheating. But just FYI, this Dozer has heater vents and controls like it has AC. We will b warm in winter!
The smaller cats have reversible fans and sometimes they have to be tapped in before they turn,they will push in towards the hub and there should be a hole in the front right hand side to get a long handled flatblade screwdriver in to reverse the fan. We run 4 big 375A-6 komatsus and a dozen d8's and d9's in mud over the tracks all day at the oilsands TRO operation right now.Steaming the rads is a daily thing for the cats,they need it every 12 hours,the komatsus being a little bigger sit higher out of the water and do a bit better but all our fans blow out the rad. We have hundreds of dozers at this mine and not one has the fan sucking the air in,they all blow out.Cleaning is a biotch also with multiple coolers behind the rad and close to it,the main source of dirt we find is in between these rads and impossible to clean without taking out the main rad itself or 8 hours of steady pressure washing useing lots of solvents and lots of patience and just the right amount of pressure to not bend the fins.
Why aren't you using the cooling system on top of the cab that I have seen pics of here?I think that the system was developed for your application.Ron G
Because we were contracted to run in 30 centimeters of mud at the start,same with the other outfits but because of the sucess of the new technology for getting rid of the tailings ponds they got ahead of themselves and went for production or as many tonnes of mature fine tailings out of the ponds before freeze up. We queried the komatsu dealer about turning these into cell cats with the rads on the roof and it's $600,000 each canadian. Steaming is cheaper right now and we jerry rigged some diapers for the front of the rads to keep the mud out. Believe it or not the komatsu dealer suggested and cut holes in the belly pans of 2 of the dozers,thats what you get when you let some mechanics make suggestions before consulting the operators,what were they thinking? The holes have now been welded back shut when the engine covers were allmost bulging after 3 hours in the mud. They should have asked some of us 30 year operators about openings in belly pans,you just dont do that.
I guess as always it's specific details of the job site that determine what will work but in my experience holes in the belly pans of cats is the only way to go in tailings cats ! I have worked on dozers owned by the mines with holes in the pans and the contractors regular cats plunged into tailings ponds. The machines with holes in the pans were always way better to work on when pans had to come off. Less sand build up around the engine/torque and not as much bitumen to chip off components. Constantly dipping into water/sand/bitumen the holes give this messy slurry an escape route as opposed to working its way into the pan and never leaving ! No matter which way the machine is customized it is just a horrible mess to be putting any poor machine in. The last brand new tailings cat I saw had no moving parts in the front end of the engine. The alt was moved to the roof with the rads and A/C comp moved to the underside of the hood and like the alt driven by a hyd motor. The front vibration damp. had a cover over it with a breather coming off it.
True but were running in MFT mixed with polymer flocculent which makes it the consistency of peanut butter. Tailings cats are in sand and water and it would run out the holes if thats what we were in. I hear ya on the moving parts,I suggested a cover over the vibration damper to keep it from throwing the mud up into the rad but i'm just an operator,it takes time before they listen to us and many dollars allthough we are allways right in our suggestions,were the ones living on these machines. I have the solution to the problems,let the mud gradually build in the pan and dry,this creates a seal against any more coming in,trick is to do it slowly,maybe give the operator an option to shut the fan down untill it actually gets hot.they will fill up very quickly and thats why you would run the dozer in drier material untill it is sealed and dried by engine heat.The first komatsu I ran is why I say this,I was in drier mud and it did seal,then when it's sister dozer came to work with me we were in mud freshly poured from the tailings ponds and it was the consistency of porridge and filled up and was thrown into the rad and inbetween the coolers,we have worked side by side for weeks in the same material now and the first one runs at half temp and the second one overheats all the time. When I worked in the Arctic I learned how to make things work without fancy parts,machine shops or spare parts,thats why i'm good at looking at a problem and finding a solution without spending $100,000 dollars. The komatsu techs look at the same problem and say hey"We need to spend a couple hundred thousand dollars to modify it" Maybe im just crazy but I can look at a problem like this and find a way to make it work because the solution isnt dollars but common sense in most cases. The bitumen is a bitch,my solution is a small piece of plastic or belting mounted on the bottom of the rad to keep the harmonic balancer or what ever it is from throwing it up into the rad where the airflow from the fan sucks it right through the rad. Give me some sheet metal,a rivet gun,cut out saw and some belting and i could make this work without putting the rad on the roof at a cost of $600,000 canadian.They could also pay me half that and I'll mount the rads on the roofs myself but the oilsands are crazy and dont really care what anything costs.
anybody got a pic of the "tailings cat" ? pj
In this thread.
any idea's for this fan? i know above it says that flipping fan wont change direction. but does this seem right? its been overheating and never thought it could be inefficient, plus i have no experience to compare to its 303.5 afw 807 perkins 3013
Did you clean the radiator?
That sure looks backwards to me. It should "scoop" when turning.
Yup. It's backwards.
I don't see how it can be backwards. If you turn the fan it appears the blades and hub will be against the radiator. Is the belt slipping ? It can be tight and still slip if the belt has a hard glaze on it. How flexible are the blades ? They may be flatting out under a full load. If it were mine I would buy a new fan.---- If the belt is functioning as it should. Unless the thermostat needs replacing. The radiator tubes may be closing up from solder bloom.
Sorry I'm confused. But here's the orientation the Parts Manual shows. I think the illustration could be incorrect because the fan in the diagram below ought to blow but would need the engine rotating anti-clockwise when viewed from the flywheel end to be fully efficient. The illustration below from the engine R&I procedure shows the same fan orientation as in HMC's photo above, which proves that the Parts Manual drawing is wrong. What's the betting someone used that drawing some time in the past to install the fan.............
Has anyone have any idea why HMC's fan has a concave on the forward edges of it ?
Optical illusion.? The next blade up seems to have a straight front edge.
It's the same as TomWei posted, just installed reversed.
couldnt figure out from diagram, should have checked here before putting radiator back. its still empty. i did order part 2 and part 4 came. correct part arrives tomorrow. it ran hot so im guessing its been the wrong direction for some time.
it was in the wrong direction. needle barely moves. used to sit at 3/4 hot