So as the title says, this is the first time I've ever tried to replace cylinder seals in my 555E or any machine for that matter. I've taken apart the cylinder (crowd/stick cylinder), started cleaning the threads, removing scale, etc., but as I am planning to rebuild the gland, I am seeing a few pieces that I have that I do not see in the gland. Mind you, I have not taken apart the gland yet, so maybe this is my 1st problem. Anyways, attached are 4 pictures. 2 pictures are of a very thin plastic ring, with the other being more like a wiper ring that is a bit thick in nature. I also include an overall picture of what I assume is all for the gland as I've already replaced the 2 on the piston. Any idea where these might go? OR maybe they are extra in my kit? Not to muddy up the waters too much, but for the seals in green, does anyone ever replace these? Based on the size, I'm assuming they are to protect and keep the dirt out of the wear bushings in the rod/barrel end of the cylinder.
Had to do another post to get the last pic.
Swetz told me those were for the pin to keep grease in and dirt out. I already had mine back together when I asked so they didn't get put in.
If your wiper seal is correct would you measure it and share the kit number you used?
Have you already taken the cylinder apart?? This looks a kit that you purchased. Sometimes, these kits; have extra seals for multiple applications.........a different model might take other seals in your kit. Your model might take a few others. As you take your cylinder apart, pay close attention to what seals come out, how the lips are aligned, etc. Do you have seal installers to help you put the internal seals in place?? When trying to put the hard plastic seals over a piston or rod cap you may find it helpful to put the rings or seals in boiling water to make them softer and easier to put over the piston. It can be daunting looking at all the seals in a pile in front of you..........but if you take your time when replacing the seals, it will make sense and come together. And really, don't be suprised if you find you have extra seals at the end of the job. Good luck!!
I will know for sure in the next day or two when I redo the gland, but the kit I bought was 87428632 and this came from the service bulletin (maybe it was you who sent it but I don’t remember). It listed a different kit than in the parts book and they changed it because of the new gland style NH wanted to put on the cylinder.
Appreciate the feedback. Yes I have all the tools and have watched enough videos online that I feel somewhat comfortable. My biggest concern is since I haven’t done this before I’m not 100% sure of the end result if I have the right sizes, putting them in order to not make it harder, etc.
I should say that I believe I have a newer style gland… I hope. I’ll keep y’all posted.
The "Crowd Cylinder" is the one on the boom, correct? I'm want to follow along and make sure I know what everything is....cause I know I'll have to do it in the future. How hard was it to remove the cylinder? Do you have any images of that process? Any tips you can offer on that process? @cosmaar1 thanks.
A good thread. Repacking the Crowd Cylinder on my 575E Never a dull day with trying to get parts for this thing. The seal supplier came up with three possibilities for a kit so I bought all three with the understanding I could return the two I didn't need. None of them have what it would take to repair this. I have a message in to the supplier with... HeavyEquipmentForums
Some pics of me doing the crowd cyl No wonder it leaked!! Took the bucket off and used my CUT as a helper...Rod is heavy! Never took the barrel off the machine. Removed the bolt with the pin in the rod.
When I did mine I purchased the gland. Later, NH575E and I spoke and he had the kit number that would fit my origional gland. I believe that is in the thread above.
Below are the 2 glands. New on left. If you have this style, you should see the ring cut in (see arrow). One on rght is original. The seals are very different. This is the invoice from the gland and seal kit. The kit listed will not fit stock glands! If you bought this kit, and the gland does not have the groove, it will not fit.
Yes it is the 2nd cylinder, middle, ditching, stick, or elbow cylinder.... whatever you want to call it.
WELL THAT SUCKS. Looks like I have the original gland. Funny thing Swetz is that the number of the seal kit I purchased is not what you purchased. The number I got was in the bulletin. The gland however is the same number. Interesting.
Now that I say that, it looks your your number is a replacement of mine... According to Messick's at least.
It's hard when you get a bag of seals to discern what is needed and where it goes. One kit (the one you have) covers 2 product numbers..........changes to design, updated parts, etc........you'll get it done!! YOU GOT THIS!! Just take your time and pay attention to how the old seals are arranged, aligned, etc. Sometimes a seal comes out in pieces or is already destroyed......then you need to use intuition and judgement.
Needless to say, I do have the original one.... booooooooooo
Something I learned while messing around at the factory NH parts site is you can search for a individual seal and it will give you reference to different kits that would have that seal. I searched for the wiper seal for one of my cylinders and it came up with a kit containing that seal and the kit also had the same gland seal. Not many of the other parts listed in the kit matched.
That's a good idea..... I will also try the same thing using the parts book. Thanks. Side note, I've got an email out to Chris at CEA.... Hopefully he can point me into somewhat of a direction to see if its any different from what you went through. This is what I sent him.... Hello Chris. I finally got around to installing this kit I bought from you and come to find out I have the older style gland which is not what I thought I had. The piston seals and outer gland seals that came in the kit I purchased from you seem to fit fine, but none of the internal seals fit or are the same for that matter. After talking with some folks on the Heavy Equipment forum which I am a member of, this particular cylinder isn't as straight forward as most and one guy had to piece mill seals and kits to be able to rebuild his. New Holland decided many years ago that their fix was to have you buy a whole new gland and kit assembly, but I am not paying $700 to do this. I am having a very hard time finding pictures of the seals that come in the kit 85819350 and before I waste more money, I wanted to know if you would please look at the pictures I have attached and see if this kit has what I need? I've also provided a few dimensions that could help. Old Parts Wear Bushing: OD 67.8mm, ID 61.37mm, width 19.05mm. Buffer Seal: OD 75.46mm, ID 62.07mm, width 4mm. This has a notch in it as shown in the pics. Rod Seal: about the same as buffer. For some reason when I took it apart, it came in two pieces, but I assume its supposed to be one. Wiper Seal: OD 76.64mm, ID 68.5mm, width 7.6mm The wiper seal I currently have brand new is OD 76.4mm and it just sits there and spins in the gland. I measured the OD of the gland and it is 76.9mm which makes sense as to why it spins. As you can see from above it needs to be slightly bigger. It also looks like the gland ID for the wiper seal is 63.5mm, however when I measured the rod itself, it is 62.83. Out of the two kits you sent below, I would assume the kit I need is the 63mm one. Hopefully all of this makes sense. I apologize for the ramble.
If you already bought and opened the kit for the new style gland you might as well buy the gland and be done with it.
Unfortunately $600 is not in the budget for this year. If I can stay around $100 for what is left I’ll chalk it up for something maybe in the future. Hopefully Chris has some good news or I piece mill kits like you did NH.
Sounds like you have the same b*****d glands that my machine has. Be careful comparing and matching parts. The 675E has a couple cylinders that are different sizes than the 555E and 575E. Try to match up as much as you can without tearing open the package so you can return if needed. In preparation to reseal the crowd cylinder on my Ford/New Holland 575E I purchased the 87428632, 85819350, and 85804742 kits. The 85804742 had most of the parts to seal the gland but the wear bearing was the wrong width and the wiper seal was the wrong size. That service bulletin that was passed around shows 87428632 as the crowd cylinder kit for the 555E and 575E. New Holland shows it as unavailable but lists the individual contents. Unfortunately it doesn't give complete details on the individual parts. For instance on the wiper seal it only gives inside dimension or maybe rod size. 87428632 | SEAL KIT | New Holland Agriculture | MyCNH US Store New Holland AG - SEAL KIT #87428632 www.mycnhistore.com CEA shows that 87428632 number but lists it for B95 and LB75 models. You might ask Chris to compare the seals in it with your needs. Let me know if it has the right parts and I will order one as a spare. 87428632 Arm Stick Crowd Dipper Cylinder Seal Kit Fits New Holland B95 LB75 New New Holland Style 87428632 Hydraulic Cylinder Seal Kit. This is a New Seal Kit that fits the following Models and Cylinder part numbers. Model Num. Application Cylinder Rod Size (in) Bore (in) Serial Num. Kit # B95 BACKHOE CROWD 87315531 2-1/2" 4-1/2" 1/06 cea-services.com
I know for a fact the 87428632 does not work 100% as this is the one I purchased. None of the internal seals fit or are the same, however the piston and outer gland rings seem to fit fine.
Okay for some reason I thought you had the 85819350 kit. Hard to believe that gland price doubled since SWETZ bought one. Looks like the seal kit SWETZ bought for the new style gland was part #87633295. So far every kit I've bought had the correct piston seal. The gland seems to be the difficult to match one.
Here is one on ebay. Says make an offer. As 575E said, my 675E cylinder may be different than yours. GENUINE CNH 87414508 GLAND HYDRAULIC CYLINDER | eBay NEW OPEN BOX, BOX ROUGH, PART IS FINE STILL IN PLASTIC BAG. www.ebay.com
The wiper seal from the 85804742 kit is 78.12mm O.D. and the wear bearing is 28.13mm wide. The only spec on the wiper seal is 63mm so I guess that is just telling you the rod size it should seal. It doesn't have the typical ID, OD, Thickness dimensions on it. My crowd cylinder has 8D09A2 stamped in it but that doesn't seem to come up anywhere.
No I was thinking of buying the one you mentioned, but after reading some of your other posts, sounds like I will be in the same boat again.
I found a similar stamp on my barrel. 8D(or 1 I can't tell) 20A3. I didn't find anything either when I looked last night.
So I went to the local hydraulic shop down the road... the guy was very helpful but unfortunately came out with nothing to show for..... on to the next one.
If you have a competent machine shop nearby you could have them machine the wiper seal recess for the seal that came in the kit. I was working in a machine shop when I did my stabilizers and that is what I did for them. The inside diameter of the recess needs to be a couple thousands smaller than the OD of the seal for a good press fit if the seal is metal clad. Smaller if it's rubber. I would also have them clamp the wear ring on a round and cut it down to fit. I reused my wear ring but I think I should have replaced it.
Oops. I just read back and realized the wiper seal you have is too small. The kit I used had a wiper and wear bearing that were too large.
I have yet to find a wear bearing online or in any package of seals. I really don’t think they exist anymore. I haven’t received my new kits yet, so my answer might change. The guy at the hydraulic shop I stopped at said it still looked good and he would recommend using it again. Obviously I want to replace but might not have an option.
Received my wear ring in the mail today that NH suggested. Still waiting on my kits from Reliableaftermarketparts. Supposedly they were in stock when I ordered them but became out of stock when my order went to fill. Hopefully I will get them next week as they now say. CEA had them available as well but unfortunately were much more expensive. I will be going to the hydraulic shop on Wednesday that rebuilt my swing cylinder to see what they say. It’s about 75 minutes from my house but I called them Friday and explained what was going on. They said they would be able to tell me exactly what I need and shouldn’t be a problem. We will see what they think after they see this gland
I suggested a wear ring? I re-used all mine.
Sorry wiper seal…..
That one I used was a buggar to install. I used a sanding wheel on a Dremel in the gland and I think I had to sand the outside of the seal some.
Some positive news today. I took my gland to the hydraulic shop I used for my swing cylinder and they were able to find seals that would work for this gland. I had to pick it up after hours so I don’t have part numbers or costing yet because all the office people left, but at least movement forward. I hope to get them ordered tomorrow and hopefully they will arrive in short order… my luck probably next week. I will keep y’all posted on how it goes and what numbers they give me.
Wellllll I got the seals yesterday to my surprise. I for sure thought they were being delivered Monday. Put them in easy peezy with no real issues. The only thing I had to do that I knew going in was trim the wear ring to make it fit. I guess there isn’t one specifically for the size (length) of this gland so that was the only option. I had to end up taking off around an inch or so, but little by little I got it taken off to make sure I didn’t take too much. Here are some before pics after everything was cleaned up.
After pics.
Here are the seals I used for everyone’s info. The most expensive one was the 2 piece rod seal. That sucker was like $80. I paid $160ish including 20 something for shipping and tax. I already had the outer gland orange and black rings and piston seals because of the other kit I had bought months ago. I don’t know the numbers for those.
I also bought this bearing installer from Amazon. It was like $30. Worked pretty well to get the wiper in.
Well unfortunately the wiper seal I ended up installing came apart yesterday. I ended up breaking the white one that was in my earlier picture and went with the one NH said in his posts. Now I have to take a part the stupid cylinder again to just do the wiper At least I pressed it in good.
uuuufffff. damn. Well, at least you know what you're in for. I hope those aren't scratches on that chrome?
It looks like that wiper seal was installed backwards. The lip has to be facing the rod end.
It appears you've had some experience replacing those seals.... I would've never ever seen that --- but nest time I do have to replace one, I will remember this. Thanks r
I installed it as shown in these pics. Are you saying it was backwards in this orientation?
Reflections, grease smears, and dirt.
Look at post 19. I installed mine the same way with the indent upwards. Repacking the Crowd Cylinder on my 575E Never a dull day with trying to get parts for this thing. The seal supplier came up with three possibilities for a kit so I bought all three with the understanding I could return the two I didn't need. None of them have what it would take to repair this. I have a message in to the supplier with... HeavyEquipmentForums
That would be the correct direction with the inner lip outward and metal "cup" inside.
It looks good in the photo that is labled OUTWARD. It sure doesn’t look so good on the rod out of the gland. Unless the lip folded in when it was installed. If the lip is facing inward you will crush it when you seat the seal in the bottom of the bore. The lip has to face the rod or it cannot prevent water and dirt from entering the gland.
Yeah at this point I’m not sure. I did it myself and don’t remember any issues while I was installing it. Aside from the cylinder being heavy I didn’t have to force anything in. I’m going to chalk it up as a bad seal and hopefully in the next few weeks will get another one installed.
As you see in one of my pictures, the metal cup is still seated in the gland. The seal ripped out of it.
Yeah seal is in backwards. That lip would of held the seal in.
This is a double lip seal as all wiper seals should be. I installed mine opposite of yours so the metal cup would hold the rubber in.
Some wiper seals are meant to have the metal cup in the barrel and some are meant to have the metal cup hold the seal in. All depends on which way the lip is oriented.
This seal can be badly damaged if it is driven into the gland too far. It is unusual to see them with the soft plastic extended beyond the inner surface of the metal cup. A very poor design IMHO. I rotated the picture of it to show the extension of the plastic on the bottom of it more clearly.
Yup I was upside down... that extended lip needs to be out. Last wiper I installed had the groove in the gland, wasn't a cupped seal.
I am not trying to sound stupid here.... but that ship has obviously sailed if I installed it backwards. What it sounds like y'all are saying is that I should have installed it like Option A? Option B is how I installed it with the metal casing of the seal pressed into the gland. In Option A's case, the metal seal casing would be outward towards me.
For that seal "A" . But don't look at the "cup", look at the extended rubber. One side is flush or under, the other sticks out. BTW.... that cup got me at first....
Then I definitely installed it backwards. At least I have an answer on why it ripped a part. Lesson learned for next time! Thanks.
Could you post a photo of the groove in the gland after you remove the metal portion of the seal that stayed in it ? I'm guessing that your gland was machined for a single lip seal. If it is, that explains why the failed seal was bound up around the rod when you seated the seat in the gland.
I took these when I took it a part and started putting things back in prior to this failure.
The white seal is what I received from my local hydraulic shop and when I put it in I accidentally broke it. So that’s where the blue one that ripped a part came from. You can see that in some of the pictures above as well as this one.
And by the looks of it I probably installed this one backwards too.
Is that one seal or two in the photo ? I don't see a lip on it that should be facing the rod eye. I see a white seal and then something blue under it That white seal is usually in a groove the interior of the gland. It is a heavy duty seal that prevents oil from leaking out of the cylinder. They typically have to be folded to get them in their groove. The blue wiper seal should be here. IMHO. It hard to say that is which is which without being there and seeing it in person.
Tink, sorry for the confusion. Originally the hydraulic shop I went to gave me the white wiper seal that you see here. It was a one piece. I accidentally broke it while I was installing it, that is why I am now talking about the blue wiper seal that broke in half. The seals that are inside, we’re also provided by the hydraulic shop and I know those are correct because of the hydraulic shop reverse engineering it so to speak. What I was saying in my last message, is that since you all are telling me that I installed the blue one backwards, that could be why I broke the white one originally, because I most likely installed that one backwards as well. Post 41 of this forum shows the seals and wear ring I installed.
Something do look right at all in those photos. The white one is a pressure seal and the flare on the seal, always faces the barrel. I bought a cheap set of hydraulic seal installer’s off Amazon for like 16 bucks. one of my best purchases in a while. Once you get one gland done, the rest are easy. I am fully aware that the old seals are usually different or so corroded that you can’t tell the original orientation but some YouTube videos usually help. I am not knocking your work but none of your pics look correct.
My last suggestion for you would be to take the rod with the gland on it to a cylinder repair shop and have them reseal it. Better yet, take the complete assembly to them and have it resealed. Piston rings too. Doing that will most likely get you a warranty on their work. I would also advise you to not go back to the one that sold you those generic seals. I noticed you started this project back in October.
The service manual does not address which way to install the wiper seal. It just reads "To prevent the entrance of foreign material to the cylinders, a wiper seal is positioned in the outer edge of the gland." I found one photo on the swing cylinder that appears it is installed with the cup out as cosmaar1 had his installed. The wiper seals in the kits are single lip seals so it would seem they SHOULD be installed cup out. Every kit I have bought had the wrong size wiper seal in it. I'm afraid he followed my suggestion to purchase a double lip seal which in theory would solve the direction question. On the one I bought and used on my crowd cylinder you can now see a small gap between the seal and the rod so I guess I have enough play in the piston it doesn't hold the rod centered. On my stabilizers I machined the glands to fit the supplied wiper seals and put them in cup down so I am now thinking I installed those backwards. SOOO just because it's shown or described on the internet and even or especially on You Tube doesn't mean it is correct. I have seen numerous You Tube videos I know to offer incorrect information so you have to be careful where you get your info. Looks like I may have spread some incorrect info as I am learning as I go on these machines. My advise is FREE and worth every penny!
Same... same.... After fighting seals on various machines (2"+ rod), finally got a set of those seal installers from Amazon like @HarleyHappy did. 7/8 rod does not like big fingers. DO NOT regret that purchase.
All of the seals I bought were Hercules so nothing generic there. Nothing on the cylinder is leaking and everything works fine and has been for a while. My issue is what y’all said. Flat out I installed it backwards and didn’t realize it until it just ripped itself in half 10 months after the fact. Lesson learned for sure.
Being it's a double lip seal I would be tempted to clean it all up and superglue or silicone it back in the cup. This is what the double lip seal I used looks like now. And it is installed cup facing in. It is clearly not sealing like it should but I hope the inner seal is keeping the dirt out.
Eh I already have 2 in the mail. Bought a backup just in case since I will be doing the replacement in the middle of the woods. I’m just going to bite the bullet and take it off to fix it. It would be different if I didn’t just have everything apart less than a year ago. I would imagine things shouldn’t be stuck together like before.
I hope that is the case and good luck with it. After I rebuilt my left side stabilizer I developed a problem with it being slow to operate. Not knowing what was causing it I took it back apart again. Only problem was the gland that I had just put back on was stuck beyond my strength and leverage. I had even put antiseize on the threads. I ended up taking it to a hydraulic shop thinking they would have the right tools to get the gland back off. The right tool turned out to be 4 guys on a pipe wrench and a 8 foot cheater bar. My problem turned out to be some little piece came out of the control valve and lodged in the brake block or whatever it's called. I put two new blocks on them and my problem went away but my left side now leaks down. I have to put a chain on it when I park it.
I have had my old Case for a few years and the stabilizer’s had never leaked down at all. Think the old seals were so crusted up, the rods were stuck because as soon as I put new seals in it, they leak down a bit. Lol My bushings and pins had so much slop, I was seeing a gap just like in the photo above and as soon as I replaced all the bushings and pins, that completely went away.
My 2 cents on this subject. I have done many hydraulic cylinders over the years, including all but 1 on my 675E. The purpose of the seal is to wipe contamination off of the rod as it retracts, With this in mind, the seal usually, not always, has a pronounced lip. That lip will point out of the cylinder when installed. The first 3 pics below are the new seals that I installed on my 675E. They all came from CEA Services, and I was told that they were supplied by Hercules. The last photo is of an OEM seal on my 675E. It has a metal carrier that the seal is affixed to. I have seen these separate in the past. When the seal becomes delaminated from the metal carrier, it freely slides on the cylinder rod. So, I am not sure if you did or did not correctly install the seal, but seals do fail and come apart. In fact, I have seen that happen and the tech didn't realize the metal seal carrier was still in the gland until the new seal didn't fit.
Update: Took the cylinder apart today and threw it back together. Ran it for 20 minutes after it was back together and no leaks. Only issue I had was trying to get the seal to go in. The wrong way I initially installed it was easy a pie. This time it took me over 30 minutes as I had to use a hand file to bevel the seal. It wasn’t perfectly round and neither was my gland, but eventually I was able to pound it home. Unfortunately I did not buy any extra internal seals and hindsight is 20/20. The buffer seal didn’t look the greatest but at least it was still in one piece. Nothing leaked before I took it apart so hopefully that stays true now that it’s back together. One thing I want to add for someone else that may need this in the future is the way I anchored my spanner wrench to the gland. I was having one heck of a time getting it to stay and decided to crank a ratchet strap on it to hold it in place so I could use my 4 ft breaker bar. Worked like a charm! I didn’t do this the first time I redid the cylinder but got a lesson learned for next time!
Also, I appreciate everyone’s help with explaining to me why I did it wrong. Even though I’m mad at myself for not doing it right the first time, just add another feather in the cap for learning how to work on this stuff.
Hey, I take everything as a learning experience. Good job on the strap idea!!
Great idea on the ratchet strap. First time by myself, I got so upset with the spanner wrench slip off, I tack welded it to the gland nut. Now I use a long quick clamp and it makes it much easier.
Yeah I was actually thinking of building something my own that bolts together so I can make slight adjustments. The ones I found online seem cheaply made or non existent for that matter.