Hi all, This is my first time working on large equipment. Dad and I bought a CAT 426B two years ago to use on our property and the brakes started going out on it. They got so bad they almost didn't work at all so we finally took the axle apart and found out that the rear pads had all the inner teeth snapped off of them. The friction material didn't look to bad but for some reason every single tooth was snapped clean off of every friction disc. We got new discs and metal plates and are now trying to figure out what type of fluid we can get locally that would work for this axle. I found online it takes 4.9 gallons of it but am not sure what type. We have a parts manual but no service or maintenance manual for it yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated as we're trying to get this done on a budget. I'm hoping the local tractor supply place will have some type of fluid that's compatible. it's all apart and we really don't want to have to wait to order something in from the nearest CAT dealer as we're really rural and there's no dealer within driving distance. Thanks
It appears that an API GL-4 gear lube is called for, which seems to be readily available. I am not sure on the viscosity, but I imagine a 75W-140 would be fine for personal use. Perhaps Nige, or one of the others with access to the Cat system will shed some light.
Just so that we get to the right table for oils........ Is the rear axle steerable or fixed..? If the machine has rear wheel steer then you should use an 75W/90 or 80W/90 API GL-5 Gear Oil. If the rear axle is fixed (non-steerable) you should use a Multipurpose Power Transmission Fluid that meets Ford M2C134C/D specifications.
Oh so i don't need those T0-4 with some sort of chatter additive or TDT0 fluids? That's great news, probably easier to find this ford speced oil. Seems even walmart carries it! http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Heavy-Duty-Tractor-Hydraulic-and-Transmission-Fluid/16213442 it's fixed rear axle. with the brakes inside it. If it matters or means anything we did notice the ford logo on the axles. We finished pulling the brake piston out and i know understand a lot more about how backhoe brakes work. these machines are amazingly well built. I could not believe that with all those teeth sheared off and rolling around in the axle, there is no visible damage to any gears or shafts that we could see. Could someone also point us in the right direction for the type of brake fluid used? Thanks again for the help, I'll be purchasing a operators/maintanence manual soon so I will hopefully not have to ask such simple questions in the future. I do plan on doing an overhaul on the bushings soon as well as figure out what is wrong with the hydraulics as it has power to do medium type of work but when put to the test lifting heavier items like a 9000lb shipping container, it struggles to lift one side (4500 lbs) with the front bucket can't get more than a few inches off the ground and couldn't dream of lifting it with the backhoe.
Ummm, the 426B is rated at like 5,400 pounds in the bucket, rolled all the way back which is average for a hoe that size. You ain't gonna be carrying containers around with it. It may be a bit down on hydraulic pressure but still, you'll be breaking things if you push it beyond it's design limits.
There is an anti-chatter additive for those type of axles, but its use is only recommended if you are actually experiencing brake chatter. For the brake system use a good-quality commerical 10W hydraulic oil. Note this system does NOT use brake fluid. For the Operator & Maintenance Manual you need Cat publication SEBU6414.
Thanks for the info. I saw the richiespec page on it and saw it had a "breakout strength of 7660 and a load at max height of 5400 so i figured if it couldn't get 4000lbs off the ground more than a foot we were having issues somewhere. If that's not the case then I guess in a way that's good news. Thanks again for the information. Heading to town to try to find the fluids. I'll order that manual.
Nige, could you check for service mag on brake disc update that used regular oil and the friction modifier please. Later Bob
You're right Bob. there is a Service Mag article and very interesting it is too ........ To the OP. What Part Number of friction disc are you installing and are they genuine Cat discs..? For the O&M Manual try online marketplace sites such as eBay, Craigslist, Amazon, etc, and compare the prices with the Cat dealer price. The latest version is SEBU6414-03, you will get that from the dealer but not necessarily on line.
I got CTP brand PN 9R2477 so they're aftermarket. Just got back from town. We went a few places but only NAPA had the right stuff. We got 5g of their premium HD Tractor hydraulic/transmission oil that does list the Ford spec as well as the CAT TO-2 spec. The only 10W hydraulic oil they had was a R&O Hydraulic oil that was ISO32 so we went with that. We could only get it in 5g buckets but the guy at the counter said it was also useable as a piston hydraulic oil so we figured we could always use it in the hydraulic system?
OK, here's the deal. In the Cat world 9R-4277 was cancelled in 1995 and replaced by (CRB) 133-7234 which in turn is CRB 230-4017. Here's the text from the Service Magazine article Bob was asking about above ........ Description of Change: The brake disc for the rear axle has been changed. The new brake disc is manufactured from a different material in order to improve the service life of the brake. Also, the brake disc provides a quieter operation. Adaptable To: The new 230-4017 Brake Disc is a direct replacement for the former 133-7234 Friction Disc. When you install the new 230-4017 Brake Discs, fill the rear axle with TDTO SAE 30 oil. Also, add 150 mL (5.1 oz) of 197-0017 Axle and Brake Oil Additive to the rear axle. The TDTO SAE 30 oil is new for the axle. The TDTO SAE 30 oil should replace the MTO oil that was previously used. The TDTO SAE 30 oil must be used in all axles that have the 230-4017 Brake Discs. The TDTO SAE 30 oil was effective in machines that are listed in Table 2. If the former 133-7234 Friction Disc is used in an axle, you may use the TDTO SAE 30 oil with 1 Liter (1.0567 qt) of the 197-0017 Axle and Brake Oil Additive. So based on that I have no idea what oil to recommend for the rear axle......... Personally I'd speak to the supplier of the discs that you bought and ask them to contact the manufacturer and ask the question but don't be surprised if the response is "Huh?" What Serial Number of machine are we looking at here.....?
Serial number is: 5YJ02040 Ok, so the correct answer is use new style discs with TDTO SAE30 and additive. But if we're using the old style discs with the old style T0-2 speced oil, we're probably ok for now? I mean can't be any worse than it was when the machine was built right? I figure once it's all back together I'll pay close attention to see if they're chattering and if they are I'll add the additive like you suggested. Yeah I really really doubt the ebay seller of the pads i bought (which when i called them sounded more like a wholesaler of random parts) will know anything at all about what I'm talking about.
I think I may have good news. I did a bit of digging and for older machines 9R-2477 is still available, therefore the MTO oil for the rear axle would still be the correct oil. If the oil used is MTO then the anti-chatter additive whould not be used IMO. Others may disagree. I love happy endings .........
Great! That is good news. Thanks again for all the help and advice. I really want to take care of this machine as it was a big investment for our family, I'm glad I found this forum, hope to learn a lot from you guys.
If I recall correctly the additive was available from CAT but only advised for use if chattering was a problem? It's been about 15 years so...
well, took us a few days of stop/go work but the backhoe is back together. Had two final questions. The brake chatter, is that something that happens when the hoe is moving with no brake pressure or is it something that happens when the brakes are applied right before it comes to a stop? There was no noise while in motion or when i applied the brakes but right before it stopped it made a little bit. Not sure if that's a big deal or not. Second question is, how they heck do you bleed this brake system?! i had the lines disconnected from the axles so i pumped all the old fluid out till only air came out of the lines. I also pulled the brake pistons apart and cleaned them all out. So with no brake fluid in the system, i assembled everything and filled the reservoir up and with the bleader screws cracked i began pumping the brakes. seemed like almost nothing happened, very very slowly some fluid went out from the reservoir. I think i might have refilled it two times... or so. I had my dad help pump the brakes while i opened/closed the bleeder screw (like you'd do a car/truck) and that did nothing. I can't imagine both pistons and the valve assembly all filled up with the small amount of fluid we replaced. But we kept at it quite a bit and eventually the pedals didn't just fall the floor but still it feels like they travel way too far with no resistance and only stop the hoe when they're close to the floor. Is there a different procedure for bleeding this brake system? should we have pre-filled the pistons? Are the bleeder screws the standard 1/4 turn to open and snug to close? Thanks again.
The chatter will happen just before you stop moving when the brakes are applied. There will be no noise without applying the brake. If you are bleeding the brakes with 2 people and opening the bleed screw only while the brake is applied that should work. One thing to remember when pumping the brakes is to pause in the released position for a couple seconds to allow the fluid time to refill the master cylinder. If you are looking for the additive or friction modifier the cat number is 1u9891.
The best way to describe brake chatter would be a grating/grinding noise or even a sensation just as the machine is coming to a stop. The additive is a solution but I wouldn't use it unless you actually experience chatter. I've been looking all over to try to find any information regarding whether the additive can be used with the MTO oil that you have in your axle or whether must be used with a TO-4 oil. I can't find a thing apart from what I posted on the previous page which gives the impression you should change to TO-4 if you put the additive in the axle, but it does not say that you can't use it with MTO which is of course is a different thing. I've had no experience whatsoever with MTO so I have no idea if there is something in the additive package of MTO that might not like the 1U-9891 Anti-chatter Additive.
I seem to remember the original additive we sold at the CAT dealer came in a Ford bottle, but I may be hallucinating......
So does brake chatter harm anything or is it simply a noise nuisance? There is noise right before it stops if i'm stopping a little hard. When i come to a very slow stop there's no noise. the noise doesn't bug me but if it's going to hurt something then I'd have no issue adding it. Any chance the chatter was the reason all the teeth were snapped off the old brake friction pads? I couldn't understand how that would happen or if it is a common issue? Yeah we're going to need to bleed them again. maybe after a few tries at it we can get all the air out. The weird thing is when i cracked the brake bleeder screw the pedal didn't drop to the floor like it's supposed to, it just went very slowly down over time as i kept loosening the bleeder (we're taking 3-4 full turns).
No you didn't get schrooms on your pizza. It is the additive for MTO. If you use TO oil you use cat friction modifier. The friction modifier is packaged in several different bottles and labeled differently. Same oil with conflicting warnings. Later Bob
So what you're saying Bob is that if this machine has MTO in the rear axle there is a different anti-chatter additive to the 1U-9891..? Answer: Yes. And this is it .......... http://www.petersoncat.com/sites/all/sites/default/files/files/brake_oil.pdf
I recently ordered a 1000 hr PM service kit for a 563E roller and a qt of 197-0017 was included. Mistake by parts picker perhaps?