I'm working on a Kohler genset with an LRG425 (Onan equivalent would be a 20ES or GGDB?) that has the ford DIS. Apparently they discontinued the original ignition controller, and offered a kit to upgrade to an updated one, which has also been totally discontinued/NLA. The last PN we have is 1U1L-12A297-DA. Has anybody come up with a solution for this? There has to be a lot of these in sweepers, lifts, etc. besides gensets. Guys on another forum have come up with a lot of ideas, but nothing specific. But I can see this will be a Big Deal in the future.
I once got the job of servicing a Cat generator. Cat wanted an arm and a leg for it. I determined it was a Ford Pinto engine.
Is this DIS & carbureted or EFI?
I just Googled the part number and it's for DIS & carbureted and there are numerous sites that are listing them for sale. I haven't heard that they have been dis-continued.
I have not found anyone who actually has one. When you contact them they all say NLA. If you would not mind posting the sites there may be one I have missed.
I have (sadly) a pinto engine in my IR compressor...got the module at CarQuest. I will post the engine info and cq part #'s tonite. Ed
Interesting, I wondered about that. It seems that anymore companies don't need to actually have an item for them to advertise it. I've dealt with GCIron in the past and also TruPar, I'm sure you've checked E-BAY. Pitt auto always seems to have alot of info, have you talked to them about any possible replacement? It would be interesting to figure out how much different the Ranger pickup unit is since they use the same coils ect. Would have to compare schematics I guess. It's amazing how they just obsolete a part that is used in so many different applications.
I'm working on a solution but it is going to take some pain. Unfortunately, the unit that is failed is a long way from the shop. Not a good place to be doing a beta test.
I would love to see what you got. Distributorless is what I am after, though. I don't know if yours has a distributor or not. I believe we can still get all parts for the distributor ones but not many left running these days.
Have you ever had a camshaft out of a DIS engine? I'm wondering if it still has the distributor gear? If so could you drill the block and convert the DIS engine back to distributor? The casting looks the same, the boss is there just not drilled.
I have this exact engine in my manlift. My problem turned out to be the crankshaft sensor. The sensor was the same as a ford ranger pickup. From what I found the module wasn't the same as the ranger pickup.
In this case, the sensor is testing good when cranking. But maybe I should throw one on anyway if they are cheap enough. Do you know what year Ranger it crosses to?
If its just a ign module a GM HEI can be wire to do the same thing. Its not that hard to rig any distributor to any engine if you want to bad enough.
Mine has a distributor.....will still post the info. Ed
There is a distributor drive port on most of these engines but no idea if the oil pump (that's where it is) shaft still has the gear made on it, nor if it would be timed for distributor operation. I have a spare distributor around here somewhere, rob a coil off another one, may run that by the customer if it gets bad enough.
First pic is the data tag info. Ed View attachment 278321 View attachment 278322 View attachment 278323
I am familiar with that type module and the systems that use it. I guess if we could find a complete distributor, module, coil, and there is a drive gear on the shaft, this might be the most foolproof way to run it. We'll see what the customer says next.
You got me digging a bit since I'm sure I'll run into this issue at some point. Found the site Burtonpower that has a ton of performance/racing parts for these engines. It looks like they offer parts to convert these engines to distributerless and use ICMs from Omex, specifically the 200 series. This (or something like it on this side of the pond) might be a fix. http://omextechnology.co.uk/ecu-200.html
Interesting.
I think you win the prize. I will call them Monday.
Never mind, I see they seem to be in England. I will still email and see what they say.
I don't remember the year of the Ranger. This was a few years ago. I think I put the genie part number into a google search and worked it backwards to the ranger.
There are 2 circuits for spark one fires during cranking starter engage and switches to other for running. So if it sounds like its firing while cranking and then disengages starter and stops in can be the second spark circuit has failed. Do you have a picture of it ?
Look something like this ?
The engine had nothing like that, but something like that has been suggested to me. Does anybody know how that wires in and whether it can run without an ECM and what the timing would be w/o ECM?
maybe try here https://www.nppi.com/
Still watching hope someone figures this out. I'm sure mine won't last forever
I googled "1988 Ford Ranger 2.3 ignition module wire diagram" and found several schematics. Also found therangerstation.com which looks like it might have some interesting info in it. I haven't been able to find out when Ford started using the DIS system on the 2.3.
NPPI said they had one, I quoted the customer and he said go ahead, it was at that point that NPPI discovered they really don't exist
I have googled lots of schematics but most of the time they are false or completely wrong, Google does not understand that schematics do not need to be exactly right.
I found a couple that appeared to be 2.3L but yes, I agree, most are something totally different.
Can you call these folks and ask them if this is it? https://shop.moderngroup.com/904-0008-38-ignition-module-for-ford-lrg423-see-notes/ They treat me good. Maybe they can reveal THE OEM number on this?
Is that a current item? Ebay can't find it for me. Item number?
Just wondering what your final outcome was on this? Were you able to find something and get it running?
Absolutely nothing. Possible options by retrofitting ignition modules from smaller engines but need to call the customer and find out whether he wants to rube goldberg this thing or just give up.
That sucks I'm sure mine will die one day with no way to replace it.
If that is the old 2.3 Ford Pinto Industrial engine, why not retrofit it to the old Duraspark ignition that was used in various applications. Zamboni comes to mind. Distributor and duraspark module and some wiring modification should be all that is needed. It may be feasible
My model has no distributor. That's the problem.
Yes, it seems to me that all the 2.3 liter versions used the distributor and all the 2.5 models used a coil pack and controller.
Ok, so is it possible to retrofit an old 2.3 where a 2.5 is now? There should be a few of the old 2.3’s still around but maybe its not worth the time and cost to do it
Been following this thread, is this what you guys are looking for? > https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...-truck-1998-ford-ranger?q=ignition+coil&pos=0
There is a separate driver that interprets the crank pulses and fires said coil.
Hmm, wouldn't that be the ECM?
On these units, the ignition controller is the only "computer" they have, if you can call it that. And that is the part we are trying to get. Timing is totally fixed. It has a carburetor for fuel.
2.3 use a distributor the 2.5 use a cam sensor to tell the ecm the crank postion is my understanding
Ok, got it. Never had to work on these components myself, I wonder if it's possible to fit a ECM from a Ranger truck to make the engine run?
Don't know if this will go anywhere, but it mentions the Ford part number you posted. > https://www.tennantco.com/content/d...oducts/Instruction Bulletins (IBs)/340677.pdf
And this. > https://store.intellaliftparts.com/p/TEN-374274/lrg425_module_update_kit.html
ONLY $2700 ! Thinking I could cludge another engine in for that price. Old Toyota that would run for another 50 years. Joe H
They used to be under $1k
What all do they do ? Spark, timing, I suppose oil and temp shut downs ? Maybe one could find a race car ign box msd type module to take care of the spark and timing take a look at summit racing There are places that repair ecms also that may be worth checking out It would also be possible to use a ecm out of a vehicle though it would take some experimenting if you went to your local friendly auto shop they could pull the computer diagram on Mitchell for a ranger or something a person could develop a plug and play set up as there are apparently lots that may be needed
Would something like this work found it on Amazon for 1300
Have you tried a forklift place, new or used? Supposedly these engines were used in a lot of forklifts.
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Do you know if anyone has ever used one of these?? Think I may need one.
Looks very sketchy. I think I have seen this before but not impressed with the screw together case and Dymo labels stuck all over it. For that price you would hope it would be a little more professionally assembled.
I agree, however options are limited form what I can come up with. This part has good reviews on eBay.
Haven't been following this thread for a while, but new posts popped up, don't know if they have the part you need, but I've ordered a number of LRG425 parts from this company. Just ordered a MAP sensor for one last week, OEM Ford part was delivered. > https://www.pittauto.com/default.aspx?page=customer&file=customer/piauel/customerpages/pl_ford.htm
I called pit auto and they said all the keys I needed are obsolete. They referred me to a guy who is making an aftermarket module. I purchased it and just got it installed. I am getting ignition spark again but machine still does not run well under a load. Will run good when no load is on engine. When trying to raise boom or drive you really have to feather controls to prevent motor stalling.
Yeah, that's the problem with Ford industrial engines, they haven't made them for years and the parts are getting more scarce. Without going back and viewing all the thread posts, I'm assuming this is running it on gasoline. Is it a dual fuel set up for gas or propane? If yes, have you tried running it on propane?
It sounds like a governor issue if it loses power under load. Either that or a fuel issue or a combination. The gov. may be adjustable or need some overhauling. I know on Lincoln welders everything has to be adjusted just right for them to work optimally.
Weak ignition can cause poor performance under load--coil, plugs, plug gap, wires plus it may not cause a miss.
Old racers adage, if it lays down in first gear (low load), its fuel, if it lays down in high gear (high load), its spark.
And that's why racers used magnetos.
MSD 9040 Ignition Kit - Digital 6AL/Distributor/Wires/Coil Ford 2300 4 Cylinder Free US Shipping Over $100 - Great Prices - Over 150 Top Performance Brands - Since 1963 - www.skspeed.com
Lincoln SA200's (Continental F162/F163) could have a distributor or a magneto. Some owners even converted to a distrbutor thinking it was the better option but there are also a lot owners who preferred a magneto. Magneto is nice because it doesn't require a battery or alternator to keep running. The charging system is just to keep the battery charged. If you have a bad battery or charging system you can boost it or use a hand crank. I don't use mine enough to keep a good battery in it because the battery would just go bad from sitting. I start it with a lithium jump starter easy peazy.
That kit is expensive for simple fact just how many would they need to sell to break even. If it were a small block chevy it would be less than half. Only buyers are guys who race mini stocks.
I don't think that kit will work for the ones we have the problem with because they don't have a distributor. They just key off the 36 minus one tone wheel on the crank nose, they fire cylinders in pairs, they don't need to know whether compression or exhaust stroke, fire both.
Some posts are saying the do have blocks with distributors some don't.
The one I have doesn't have a distributor. I wish it did. We don't use it enough to try an aftermarket kit. It seems like it takes a while before it starts to produce spark. A new coil and cleaning the connections seems to have helped. Before we knew there was a problem it backfired so hard it blew the muffler apart. The engine would get loaded up with fuel with no spark. Since all cylinders get spark for every revolution, it would go BANG! I put on a shutoff switch for the electric fuel pump. I test it with a spark tester before giving it fuel.
The ones with distributors are quite old, the distributor is one from a Ford car and the ignition module still available in any auto parts store, although the only problem I have had with those is the top bushing in the distributor getting worn out.