Hey Guys, I've learned alot so far from you guys, so working today with the backhoe, digging stumps, and go to move the machine, case 580b, and the front loader wont go up or down, but it will scoop and dump. Any ideas of what this may be?
Does the lever feel normal?
Yes, feels normal, when moving it forward and back, i can see a hose down on left side of the tractor twitch if that helps any
'Twitch' ? - move once as it gets some pressure or shake around ? How's the hydraulic oil level?
the oil level is good I think, it moves once as it gets some pressure yes was working fine this morning then after a few hours using back hoe started doing this
You "THINK"?? ... Has the machine been sitting a long time or used often? And does all the other hydraulic parts function OK? Hoe etc? You may need to get an operators manual plus a service manual soon if you plan to repair this thing yourself. I suppose you are saying the bucket will curl but not lift I am not real familiar with the 580B. Does it have an RTD circuit?
yes, I just got it out of shop last week, had cylinders resealed, tranny fluid and filter changed, yesterday was the first ive used it, I will check the oil level today before I get too concerned, I should have done that already! the other things work good the outriggers, hoe, it is possible that the mechanic didnt fill it all the way up not sure but I need to check it today I will let you know what I find
This may not be useful at all, but on my JD 410, I always checked the hydraulic oil because I have a leak @ the bottom of the hoe levers in the plunger chamber. I kept it at full, but had problems with the front loader occasionally myself with same simptoms, and the hoe still worked fine. Turns out somewhere down the line they had replaced the dipstick and the full mark on this one was actually about 8 quarts low, which is almost half of what my machine needs. I didn't know this until I bought a manual and did my first service on everything, being I only had the hoe since around september '11. Food for thought if you haven't had this machine long.
Thanks for jumping in daywelding, i have not had it long, just got it out of the shop, had cylinders resealed and a few leaks fixed, yeah the bucket will scoop and dump but, will not lift and lower. I have checked the fluid thats all good. at the moment I have noticed that a fuel leak on the tank is getting worse, I almost have the tank off the machine. Wow!! its in there tight!! Is it possible that the lift valve has gone bad? its a 73' case 580b daywelding thanks all for the input
If the lever feels good, & oil is OK - I would be looking at the lift cylinders, at a guess I would say a cylinder piston bolt may have come loose.
Which cylinders were resealed, specifically was the loader boom cylinders resealed?
I dont think that those were resealed im sorta at a standstill while the fuel tank is in the shop getting leak fixed. One guy I work with said possibly air pocket in that valve but, that will probly be wishful thinking.
Well, I got the tank put back on today, checked to see the hydrolic fluid was topped off, and the front end wants to lift, but, it tries to lift the left side and not the right. it was doing that before it messed up the trying to lift left side better than the right. If anyone has had these problems in the past, or has any ideas I will be thankful, I am leaning towards the valve at the handle myself.
So the left cyl. moves but the right dosent ?
Is it EVER advised to rebuild just one side of tandem cylinders, or should you always do both? My right side cylinder is leaking, but the left seems fine. I suppose you are suggesting mikey1 has a bolt loose up inside the cylinder. Probably that bolt that is supposed to be locktited in.
I always reseal both in tandem cylinders, especially if you are doing the work yourself then you just have the cost of the seal kits and your time.
those two were not resealed, guess it would be a good idea to do them. If it were the valve at the handle, would that be pretty expensive to replace? are they rebuildable? yes the left side wants to move and right side dont. I keep mentioning the valve body, when i move it to dump it will kill the engine it boggs it down so much. This is my first machine so please excuse my newness I am learning as I go, hope I dont go broke with the mechanic lol Thanks Guys for all the help you've given so far!!
^Check the hose's may have got crossed on the right side
deere500a has the best idea yet. If hoses have been removed at the valve body and connected wrong you may be pushing one cylinder up and the other down simultaniously.
You posted early on that you can see a hydraulic hose next to the cylinder "twitch" when you move the lift control lever. If the hose in question is connected to the lift cylinder that would appear to rule out the control valve under the lever as ther cause of the problem. I'm in agreement with the guys above, check the hoses to the 2 lift cylinders and see whether or not you have something crossed somewhere resulting in one cylinder trying to lower while the other one is trying to raise.
thanks guys I will check the hoses out and get back to you the findings
Hi Mikey, I would tend to agree with alrman. I had a similar problem to to yours when I worked in the service department at the Case manufacturing plant in Leeds England back in the 1970`s. The bolt securing the cylinder packing assembly had come loose and the packing assembly had turned slightly in the cylinder allowing hydraulic oil to leak past. This prevented the cylinder lifting as the oil would pass straight down the cylinder and out of the other end back into the system. The fact that you say that the left hand cylinder is trying to lift the loader seems to confirm this. I dont want to be a profit of doom but you may find that the cylinder has some damage now, especially if the cylinder packing assembly has turned 90 degrees in the cylinder, it may have scored the inside. If the inside is scored, then oil will tend to pass past the packing whenever it is in the damaged area reducing the effectiveness of the cylinder, but if you are lucky this may not have happened and it will just require the packing reassembling correctly and the bolt securing with Loctite as suggested by Bowen. Hope this helps
Thanks for the info Shantax, I hope it is not that also, I have the valve in the shop getting new o-rings the mechanic thought that would possible be it but if not, OUCH!! that may be a bad one I will let you all know the outcome when it is fixed, and again thank you all for your input and experience
You guys are good here LOL!!! I got the valve back and it was fine, I reinstalled it and bypassed the leveling cylender as the mechanic suggested (the one sitting on the seat right side almost verticle). Same thing, scoops and dumps but, wont lift or lower. It used to be like the left lift cylender was doing all of the work and now it is probly bad also. For proof it wasnt the valve, I changed the hoses around and made scoop and dump to do lift and lower it confirmed it that the problem is the cylinders. Thank you guys again for sharing your experience with us newbies, one day we will be in your shoes LOL!!
you were right alrman. it was the cylinder bolt came loose, 185.00 later both have been rebuilt working good now I did bypass the automatic leveling cylinder, will it be a problem to leave it bypassed do you guys think? Again thanks for all the help
Hey guys .. new to the forum and was reading your thread . Would anyone have any idea what this type of cylinder is ? I have draglines , dozers and backhoe but have never seen a cylinder this big and heavy . It weighs around 80 to 90 lbs and reconditioned . I am now the owner of this and don't even know what it could go to . Best to my knowledge , it might be a tilt cylinder ? Won't go to anything I own so I was looking to sell it . Would anyone have a clue ?
Good to know I can still get one right every now & again...........& I would hook up the cylinder again :drinkup
AMMazen It would help if you had a picture or at least dimensions for us to go by to identify this cylinder. Look it over for a part number, may be cross referenced to a machine.
I've Never had any problems with just resealing one lift cylinder.
I will try to put a pic here ... don't know if they will let me though as I am a new member and all the things won't work yet . Here goes ..... AHhhh nope . How can I do that ? I will go outside tomorrow and get some measurement then . I sure do appreciate you're reply however .
I feel better now i thought it was me eyes. Welcome to the Forum.
LOL ! Thanks ,,, now if I could only post a pic for everyone ,, would be better , eh ?
Hi Mikey1. You say that you have bypassed the Hydra Leveling Cylinder; did you bypass both or just the one on the affected side? How have you bypassed it and why did you have the idea of bypassing it/them. I personally wouldnt bypass these cylinders. They are there for a few reasons. 1: They are linked in to the Anti Rollback system which prevents the bucket from rolling too far back when the bucket is lifted to full height, and dumping the load onto the machine. 2: they are also linked into the Return To Dig system which when activated lowers the bucket to the ground in the correct position for digging. If you have a service manual for this machine, it has a section for the flow charts for the hydraulic system showing you how the oil flows through the system. I have a service manual in PDF format that I can let you have if you want. send me an email if you are interested. Hope this helps. Terry
Thank you for the input Terry, my mechanic thought it was the problem before rebuilding the lift cylinders, so I bypassed it , ( its the one right side of machine while sitting on the seat in front of the brake pedals) it should'nt be too hard for me to hook it back up I hope, it did cost about 25.00 having hoses built to bypass it. I have never used the fron bucket until the rebuild was done so I didnt know if it was needed or not
I had a problem with my 580K that was similar. Neither mechanic nor dealer could figure it out. After messing with the various linkage adjustments I noticed that the rollback tube was packed with old caked dirt and not allowing free movement of the rollback tube inside. I cleaned it out and made up a seal for the bolt that goes through them using a homemade curved metal washer and rubber washer. It's been working perfectly ever since.
Mikey, I have the same problem with my case 580b, front bucket worked one day , the next day it did not. The bucket tilts etc. the bucket does not lift, it wants to on the right side, when I accelerate it wants to go but wont. What was your outcome? Thanks Joe
You may have a piston packing issue or a loose piston, if you take the two lines loose at the rod end of the lift cylinders, and raise the loader slow, the side that leaks the most oil out will be the bad packing more than likely. You should be able to catch the oil in two 5gal buckets with out to much mess, be careful of oil under pressure. You can also cap off the lines to the cylinder on one side and see if it will raise with one cylinder, then do the other, gets a little messy but do able.
Ok thanks I will follow up and let you know.