I've got to get a stabilizer cylinder off to replace the seals.I can't get the bottom pin out,the one closest to the pad.I've tried heat,soaking with WD,and a combination of both (great flames!!!). Am I going to have to cut this sucker out?No amount of beating with a sledge moves the thing.With snow coming soon,and a 1/4 mile driveway,I;m getting desperate.Any old hands here have any tricks up their sleeves?
Would spraying the pin with a fire extinguisher work?? Maybe heat the parts around the pin then spray the pin with the extinguisher, I think it should cool it quickly, possibly shrinking it enough to drive out.
Only thing I can think of is a hydraulic puller/pusher or use a mag base drill. Both specialised operations that you will need to contact some pros for advice with. Enerpac make great hydraulic power packs which are hand pump operated. http://www.enerpac.com/ You either need a bridging structure or to drill and tap the pin to attach a pulling point. Hiring a mag base drill and carefully boring it out will be extra time consuming and you will need specialist drill bits. I'd be loathe to try this. Without seeing the arrangement a treatment of heating and rapid cooling can work but you need to know what your doing. Do you have a hydraulic repair shop nearby? they may be able to advise.
try and rotate the pin? ...or weld a big nut on the end...or if you can get it on, get a big pipewrench & pipe for a handle extension
Yeah,I tried the pipewrench method with a 3' pipe breaker bar.Nada. Haven't tried the heat/freeze process.Sounds worth a try.But I'd like to hear from someone who's actually chased this bear...and whupped it.Seems like a problem a lot of people with old equipment are going to run into.
could you post a picture of it. I work around old equipment but need to know what I am looking at first.
If you can get a new pin I wouldn't mess around... I'd just lance the centre of the seized pin out with a cutting torch
Actually, that might be part of the problem. Beat on them too much, and you can mushroom the end--not so much that you'll notice it with your eyeballs, but enough that it'll no longer fit through the hole. You might already be to the point that burning it out is the only solution.
Yeah.The Mushroom Effect has started.Next problem after the first problem.I figure I can grind the end bulge down AFTER (IF) I can get the thing to move.I'm not sure cutting it out is the way to go.Too much heat on the ductile and I've got a deformed hole.
If you try and blow a hole through the centre of the pin (from both ends)leaving the outside intact it shouldn't damage the pin bosses or the cylinder rod. Such method is used on seized track master pins and it works every time with no damage to the link bosses.
My theory would be to put on more heat. HEAT, HEAT, HEAT, Maybe you have , but most times generous heat will expand metal and the internal part can be driven out . BUt..... if normal heat wont work heat both female ends up cherry red beyond your liking and and try driving out pin. Is the pin stuck in the end of the ram bushing or is it stuck in the actual outrigger flanges? Guaranteed if enough heat is applied maybe more than once the pin will break free from where its seized. Good luck . doug Pics would be a great also.
ding ding ding........we have a winner !!!
I have seen pins that were seized in and the only way they would come out is with the heat and rapid cooling. In some cases we had to do this a few times in a row, but eventually it would free up the pin. :yup
Grader,what did you use for freezing the pin? Inspired by Digdug,I used up a B tank yesterday putting heat to the thing.Had most of the area cherry red.Nothing moved.Kind of leaves you with that empty feeling.
Just sprayed it with cold water after it was cherry red. Keep in mind though...have your pin ready to come out...if it is mushroomed, you have to grind that down or something. Once the pin starts to come, you have to try and remove it as quickly as possible as it will stick again in a short period of time. Then you have to start the process all over again.
Well Grader,no acetylene until tomorrow but I'll be following your direction when I get the tank filled.Seems to me heating the casting would be better than heating the pin ends,yes? Anyone know the physics of what goes on when heat/cool is used? Are we breaking the rust bonds? I like to know these things when I'm playing with things worth 3 or 4 grand. And thanks.
I'm no expert in metallurgy but the steel pin, cylinder and bosses would have been 'heat treated' during manufacturing in that the temperature and rate of cooling would have been controlled to ensure the steel and its additives crystalised properly. The pin and the other components also probably went through additional treatment to provide strength, resistance to fatigue and wear properties, this may include quenching in a controlled environment IMO...continuing to overheat and cool the components with a torch and quenching with water or fire extinguisher may damage the components and may result in deformation or even cracks... it may also be OK but you will use a lot of time, gas and frustration and you maye end up lancing the pin out anyway.
Hotsacks, Your getting a lot of "site unseen" advice. Wulf is right and it all depends on the actual arrangement...wether its cast steel or fabricated etc etc. As stated before a pic would really help a lot. A portable hydraulic press can apply hundreds of tonnes pressure and will be the safest option. Cutting may be the go depending on the arrangement. Is it the free end of the ram or the cyclinder end?
These guys are right..I am only telling you what worked for us. It will be your decision on what to do on your machine.
Squizzy,I apologize for the lack of pictures but I don't have a digital camera.Wulf makes a good point.The bosses are cast steel and would have been spec'd to death in manufacture.But I would have to lay off cutting the pin out to a mobile welder @a quoted C$300. Add that to the cylinder repair bill and I've exceeded my budget for backhoe repair for the next long while. Besides,there's pride involved here.It's a shadetree thing. You're right though.A lot of good advice here.Keep it coming.These boards help us all.
SOrry, i made you empty your tanks. :bouncegri BUt honestly heat is the answer. I should have mentioned cooling the pin also , but everyone already had. If it wont move you have mushroomed the pin , it only takes a little to jam it in the bushing. I'm wondering if you are heating the outrigger flanges and the pin is actually froze in the rams bushing? Good luck. I can loan you some gas , i'm in Maine.
Hot sacks , thats your problem . YOu are heating the pin. You need to cool the pin and heat the casting. Although , i think your frozen in the bushing in the end of the ram , not in the casting.
That's an important distinction DD. I hadn't thought about the fact that there are separate bushings.I DID NOT put any heat to the rod eye.That could be the problem,'zactly. Appreciate the offer of free gas Squizz,but torch mix is cheap enough,even in Canada!
1st...swivel the pad...you'll see if the pin rotates with the pad...or is galled in the rod end. i'll bet rod end... what machine?
Xkavator:1988 Case 580K.
CUT THE CENTER OF THE PIN WITH A #4 CUTTING TIP BY BURNIN OUT THE CENTER OF THE PIN WHEN IT COOLS IT ALLOWS ROOM FOR THE PIN TO SHRINK JUST KEEP BURNING OUT THE CENTER AND IF YOU HAVE A PORTA POWER TRY THAT I USE A 10 TON WHEN I CAN. GOOD LUCK i,D RECOMMEND A AIR /ARC BUT THAT TAKES 400 AMPS OF POWER AND ALOT OF AIR .
So if anyone would know the answer to this question it would be you. Does it do damage to the metal/cast etc. by heating and rapid cooling? We have done this many times to remove seized pins and have seen no cracking etc. Just lucky? :beatsme
Well, I guess I can't claim you posted in ALL CAPS, (which is against the rules), but it was close... :wink2
If I take a steel bar and heat it cherry red,then quench it in water,it won't show cracks or pitting.If I heat that bar to white heat and quench,it'll show cracks all over because I've burned the carbon in the steel (I think). My question is:what is the outrigger made from.If it's ductile,I think heat is a bad thing. ADMS; what about an ARC Slice? Would it be more controllable than a cutting torch? I still think the trick is heating the rod end bushing...because I haven't tried that yet.
how good are you with the torch?...can you blow the center of the pin out without veering off into the pad lugs or rod bushing?...just askin' can you borrow a porta power with a 5" dia' cyl = 50 ton rig up a fixture to jack the pin out idea #2...take the upper pins out of the cyl. and outrigger and take them to a shop with a press I have an '88 580K also...i have another idea, but i'll have to look at it in the morning
Idea #2 is heavy,man.Real heavy. I'm not good enough with a torch to keep from damaging the boss.That's a hunch I don't want turning into a fact.It's why I'm asking ADMS about the ArcSlice which I hear is more accurate. I look forward to hearing about your morning idea K bro.
we used a similar setup when i worked at USSteel... called it a CT Cutter...used it to blow holes in cast iron rolling mill equipment. it's better than a torch in deep blind holes, where you have the chance of melting the torch tip
Idea #2 here's a pic...there's space between the rod & stabilizer lug to cut the pin off...pull out the end of pin, pry rod over & cut the other side. then it would be easy to blow out the center of the pin stuck in the rod end. i'll bet a bi metal blade or two(use oil) in a sawzall would cut it. a tapered torch tip might fit in there, also
Great picture xkvator,and a good idea,specially since I just emptied my 2nd B tank with no results. But I'm wondering...the pin is froze in the bosses,not in the rod end.I guess if I cut BOTH sides of the pin I can lift the rod & stabilizer out and try to drive the severed pin ends out from inside the bosses. What do you think?
excvator- What are you taking the pin out for? I dont see the seal leaking. Just wondering what else you can do. doug
Since I don't see either xkvator or hotsacks online right now, I'll try to clarify--Hotsacks is trying to get his pin out, but doesn't have a digital camera. Xcavator took a picture of his stabilizer and posted it, for the purpose of illustrating the problem. Hotsacks, I'm not sure how many sawzall blades that would take to cut through. If you can get hold of a cutoff saw with a metal cutting blade, you might have an easier time. (Providing the blade is faily new, so it'll reach as far as it has to--they wear away as they're used.)
Thanks digger, i thought i was following along but i guess i missed that info. Thanks for straightening me out.
if that pin has been case hardened, a sawzall will never touch it. digger has the right idea. get a stihl chop saw with abrasive wheel. cut them right off
.............
I forgot to mention the abrasive wheel...was in a hurry this morning. that would be the proper tool... I figured he may have or can borrow a Sawzall easier I took a file to my pin, and it cut in...mines not hardened...but his MAY be.
Roger on the Stihl cut off idea.Just happen to have that beast in the stable and will try it out tomorrow.The pins are case hardened:if you get enough heat on them.it'll draw the temper and several hundred sawzall blades would eventually cut through.We'll see if this puppy wags its tail when it meets Mr.Stihl.
hotsacks-= went back to begining of thread to see why you wanted the ram off the hoe. You said you wanted to replace the seal. Thought i would suggest that you can change the seals with the ram left on the outrigger. Remove the pin on the machine side of ram (if it isnt froze also) and unspin the canister off the rod . Then change packing and seal. I know this is a little tough. BUt.... so is cutting the pin with a cut off saw , because you still have to find a way to get the original pin out of the outrigger flanges and install a new one. Just a thought. doug
Good thinkin'...:thumbsup
Sorry about the caps:Banghead Now that i see this picture even though it is not yours i have seen this problem before on a 416cat hoe.To answer one question yes a oxygen lance/arcslice is good for this but not needed.the heating and cooling affect does do damage if not done conservitable meaning with common sense if your solidifying the metal yes it will cause damage but i,m no metallurgirst to go into details .i,d go with cutting next to the cylinder rod with a torch if your not confident with a torch use a portaband saw or .045 cut off wheel in a 4-1/2 in grinder swing the rod out of the way and take out what is left with a torch again cutting out the center and drive out when cool you need a big tip and full size bottles to run a big #4 cutting tip good luck youll get it with some effort.:thumbsup
Not a problem. I looked at your other posts and since you don't make a habit of it, I figured you'd done what I do sometimes--hit the capslock key by mistake, and done "hunt and peck" style typing, never looking up at the screen til the message was finished. Now, it's all in caps, except for the "i", and damned if you're going to go back and re-do the whole thing. (No thread hijacking tonight, at least not to discuss typing style. Back to the topic...)
got it out, yet?
use a bigger hammer :bash
There is usually a bolt that holds the pin in I hope you have removed it :laugh A zip disk works good we use them all the time just have to be carefull they don't shatter which is easy to do. We buy the Makita brand I forget what size they are but they are only 1/8 thick. A angle grinder with a good handle on it is the best. Are you sure the pin isn't bent which is preventing it to move ? Usually pins don't stick in the rod ends unless its never seen grease. If the pin is frozen in the rod end then the holes in the stabilizer would be worn and the bolt that holds the pin in sheered off. A air chisel with a blunt end works good for pushing pins out.
Ford, I think Xkvator posted a picture of the same model backhoe as the one that is in question. If the pin is the same then it has a clip on each end instead of the bolt. I really like the air chisel idea. I would try that next if it were me.:yup
Xkvator:Haven't got it out but haven't tried the grinder yet I thought I'd have a few days down time but the phone started ringing and... The pin could be bent on a machine this old but doesn't look it.There are no zerks in the lower pins so I'm guessing I'm not the first with this problem.I was thinking what a find this thread will be for guys stuck/confounded by the Pin From Hell in the future. Interesting someone mentioned removing the top pin and replacing the seals with the cylinder in place.Can anyone confirm/deny this can be done? It won't help in my case because I'm pretty sure the rod is bent and needs replacing but it'd be good to know this can actually be done. Maybe we should start a thread on cylinder seals.That's another topic hard to find info on. Come to think of it,why not start a complete open source project for hoe maintenance/repair? Go through each component with all the do's and don'ts people have come up with in this thread?Most of us with older equipment know how hard good info is to get to keep us running so it's something to think about... I'm probably not going to get to cutting until the weekend but will definitely keep all posted on progress.
Hotsacks.- I mentioned taking out the top pin and repacking that way. And it could be done on mine because i looked at it. But.... now you mention your rod is bent? So why screw around, just cut the rod end off and pin everything with the torch. Forget working on just the pin. I assumed you were saving the rod . doug
DON'T ruin your rod end...if the rod is bent, a hydraulic shop will reuse the end...they can weld it on to a new piece of rod stock. cheaper than buying one from Case. also...if the rod is bent...extend it all the way before you disconect the hoses... and loosen the end cap with the spanner before you take the cyl. off. - it may be tight if the rod is bent close to the cyl. I don't think the small pin is bent...but if your rod is...it probably is jamming the pin On a 580K...if you swing & crowd in a 24" bucket it will contact the stabilizer cyl., bending the rod. when i was looking to buy this 580 i have now, the dealer lent it to a guy that had his in their shop so he could finish the job that day. the next day i put money down so it didn't turn into a rental... i had already ran & looked over the machine...so i just took another quick look. when i got the machine home and put the stabilizers down, i saw right away that one rod was bent. dealer took care of it. ther's no grease fittings on the lower stabilizer pins or the lower bucket pins cause the grease will hold the dirt/stone
pin I have done several of these pins on john deeres and cases, I have a case 580k right now. what I have found is the pins at the machine will bend and you will never get them out, you have to burn from both ends and drop it. but in your case the pin is stuck on the bushing. again its comes down to burning or if you have room cutting it so you can drop it and then cut it out of the rod. it messy but not that hard to do. From my experience a hammer and heat just won't get them out. a 50 ton porta power in some cases will remove them. the pins are hard through out, not just case harden. good luck, clean the torch tip now and then. I use oxy propane for projects like this. greg
DryIce or this liquid dry ice in a can it works very well, I use it to put pins in sometimes all depends. Wurth makes a can of it.
Well,I'm not sure the rod's bent but it's a miracle if it isn't.A few weeks ago,I was backing down a 60% grade and the brakes let go (another thread).I put down my coffee and newspaper and realized I better do something because,after the steep grade,was a steeper cliff.I turned off the radio to do some thinking on it and decided the way to go was lower a stabilizer and hook a tree.Worked just fine.Good decision but maybe a little hard on the stabilizer.Anyways,I told my wife,it needed new seals. I've heard of the dry ice trick with new pins.Don't know Wurth's.Any Canookistanis know a Canadian brand? Yeah,new pins.Another thread.
I feel bad that you had to put down your newspaper & coffee.:spaz ..The things a person has to do when there is a hard decision to make:bouncegri
Sorry I haven't kept up on this thread but no time these days...I got a chance on Saturday to use a metal grind blade on the pin and it works...sort of.Cuts fine but it's too far a reach for a 4.5 wheel. Need a 5" or a 7" for sure. It took about 5 minutes to cut half way through both sides of the pin.Seemed to cut like mild steel (no temper).Easy.anyways. What is everyone using for grinders?DeWalt's got a sale on a 5" for C$89.Milwaukees are $149. Opinions,advice,rants etc?
Dewalt:yup
I have boch,dewault,milwaukie,metabo.By far the best is the metabo there tools are great.I have burnt out 2 dewaults.
All we use in our shop a 7" Makita and Makita grinders they are used allot in the welding shops around here. A 7" Makita isn't cheap they are about 250.00 dollars CND but we do get 10 years out of them. We found most 5" grinders junk even the Makita they burned out too quick and they don't have the power. We use 4" grinders for wire wheeling with a flat 4" twist knot wheel. We have two old 7" Black and Decker grinders they are old its what my grandpa used to use when he was a welder. Those old angle grinders are heavy and known to give you a nice shock if your in any kind of wet conditions. For the zip disks we have a cheap light weight 7" grinder we get them from Princess auto they work great. Its easy to controll we got them on sale I think they were around 80 bucks they also work good for sanding.
I'm not familiar with Metabo. Where do they sell those?
Hell Hotsacks... don't buy new grinder... go buy a digital camera and post a picture of the pin thats been stuck for almost two weeks
Yeah, Then one of us can edit it out for you!
I had some major issues removing some pins from my Case 9030B .. tried all of the above and it moved 1/2 Inch .. Heat. cold, Presses, torches, hand mauls, and sledge hammers .. I put 30 + man hours into trying to get it out ... I ended up using a skidsteer mounted jackhammer .. the pin was out in less than 10 seconds .. Live and learn .. good luck
i use them they r great not cheep but seem to hold up to me and i get them at my welding shop u can do a net search i belive they r german
If this is not an example of "try a bigger hammer" I don't know what is.:bash Great:notworthy
German they are.The best they also are for power and dependabilty.:thumbsup Cheap they are not, But as they say you get what you pay for.
I gotta say thanks for this thread. I have been reading it for, oh, about a month now, and I am amazed it is still going and the pin is still putting up a valiant fight. Someone mentioned way back on page 2 or 3 (eons ago) to nip the pins off with a Stihl quick cut - that's about 20 minutes, including mixing the gas. Then, take the cylinder with the chunk stuck in it to your local 50 ton press, let him work his magic, and carry on - about another 45 minutes, including the time needed to tell the press operator this the whole agonizing story. I hope my humour is coming through - sometimes we can take a 1 hour job and turn it into a paycheque. John from North Bay, Ontario
Jeepers John... no time for humour when it comes to leaky cylinders with seized pins! think of the machine downtime and the additional operating cost per hour! I think aways back in the thread the local welder was going to charge 300 bucks to gas the pin out...
Remove the retainer and park the machine over a big mud pit and the pin will fall out and you will never find it. Still not to late to let the welder remove it but it may cost a bit more because of the owners help.
stuck pins You've probably solved your pin problem by now but here's what worked for me a few months back. My Cat's outboard stabilizer pins we both frozen in the stabilizer castings and I could see where one had been replaced in the past - some of the casting material was torched out. The solution is (like some of the fellas said) a big rosebud tip and plenty of HEAT and MORE HEAT! I heated the casting parallel to the pins, not the pins. Since I'd pretty well ruined the old pins trying to bang them out cold, I replaced them both.
no question about it,stabilizer pins suck.i've delt with this same problem on case,cat,jd,and now new holland.i bought a o2 lance from cat 6 years ago,a $300 tax return present to myself,best money i've spent in years. my advice is use a cutoff saw,leaves you less pin to torch. 2nd piece of advive,take the time to drill and tap for grease fittings,and use them.
I haven't heard about these pins all year now . They probably stressed themselves out trying to figure out what type of weather the machine will be working in the next day. Isn't this weather this year a wonder? It is the 7th of January, and we usually have 30 below at this time, with 2-3 feet of snow on the lawn. Today, it was (again) just freezing, and our lawn is bare. I'm not wearing out much cutting edge plowing snow this winter. I love contracts.
Frozen Pin I guess I'll add my two cents in. Learned this aboard ship in boiler room. Had two men with butterfly tips heating shaft. When it was red to the point of shining, third man hit it with a fire extinguisher. The fourth man then hit it with the B.F.H. Works everytime. If you were not in the navy and don't know what a B.F.H. is sorry, I can't tell you on this post. Myassitis
Was the BFH 14 lb or 28lb?
Also sometimes referred to as a BMFH.:bash
I had the same problem with our grapple 2 years ago. The grapple broke at one of the welds, so we had to get it off the machine to ship it back to the Mfg. We spent a day and half in the freezing cold beating that thing out. :crying :crying The operator kept it well greased and I do mean well greased, but it fought us every inch of the way. Started out with B F H then had to got G D B M F H 22lbs:bash the biggest I could find in the area. We hammered :bash the pin about a 1/4 to 3/8 of the way out and it stopped dead. We hammered on it so much from the one side the pin actually broke in half. We then tried going the other direction, no luck then switched back again . Finally it came down to calling the road service guy to come and get it out. He spent half a day working it. Had to lance it out. We got our grapple fixed and had it back in a week. Just this past summer we had a new operator in it who keeps it well greased and works the hell out it. Out of a 10 hour day he uses it 9 and 1/2 hours a day. Well the bushings wore out and we had to shim it. The operator positioned it on the ground and took the slack out by razing the boom up and I gave it a few good whacks with B M F H :bash :bash and the pin came out like melted butter. Shimmed it up and put it back together all in 45 minutes. Went together the same way. Thank God.:thumbsup
Another Fine Mess Hi, I'm new here (and to mechanized equipment) and found this a very helpful thread. I have the same problem as the OP, except the pivot pin is frozen to the sleeve of the stabilizer where it attaches to the backhoe frame, so I can't remove the assembly to work on it. No hydraulics or grease seals are involved. The clearance between the lugs that the pin passes through is only about 1/8", which would only allow cutting the pin with a Sawzall I suppose; that might work, as the pin seems fairly soft. I found just a 3 1/2 lb hammer would easily mushroom the end of the pin, and I had to chamfer it with a file, so I'm hesitant to attack it with a sledge; I may do so, depending on the advice I get here, as I don't have any other appropriate tools. I have been applying Kano Kroil 3 x/day for over a week to the pin where it enters the sleeve (which appears to be a cast part), but it is hard to know how much of it has penetrated, as most drips off. The pin is 5 1/2" long and 2.5 cm dia: Is this too long to lance with a torch? I could cut the pin with a Sawzall I think, as it is fairly soft, then take the assembly to a shop that has a press. Your thoughts, please? Charlie
Take a torch and heat the sleeve around the pin, you have to be carefull not to heat it to much or the pin will expand too. If you heat it enough without the pin getting to hot too the sleeve should expand enough so that you can drive the pin out. Use a smaller pin to put against the pin you are going to drive out and hit that pin with the sledge , this will minimize the mushrooming of the pin. If you get the pin too hot too then take a spray bottle of water and spray on the pin to cool it a little bit , this usually will break the bond of the pin. You might have to heat and cool several times to get it to break free. Hope this helps.
If the pin is still there, all of the above would have rendered it useless for re-use. I'd go hire an Arc-air with a good operator and blow the pin apart from the middle and use cooling spray/liquid to protect other components. Do this from each side until the pin looks like a hollow shell. Squirt some coolant through the hole to shrink then hammer it gently using a socket for a drift. I used this years ago and it worked back then........C ya..........Ray
Another Fine Mess Thanks for the suggestions, gents. Unfortunately, I doubt I'll find an Arc-Air in this non-industrial neck of the woods. But I'll check around. Maybe the heat treatment will do it, or there is another way. C
For arc-air you only need a compressor for the air, Specifically designed hollow welding rods and a welding machine. My advice extends to a tradesman to do the job. Most of us earthmovers can weld, but wouldn't pass a certificate for X-Ray quality welding. Such things are precise and practise provides the skill. "Cat" in Australia used to offer rods for this use and they could be worth a phone call for further info.........C ya........Ray Just have a steady and skilled hand on the handpiece.
This is a common thing with case hoes, have you considered removing the barrel from the upper end and leaving the rod in place, rebuilding the gland and piston and reinstalling in reverse order. you have a built in way to hold the rod for torqueing the bolt. doesn 't solve the pin problem but gets the cyl rebuilt.
If none of the above work, you will have to cut it out. I recomend cutting it out with a oxygen lance, This will eliminate tring to burn pin out with a torch and all the problems associated with it such as when you get to the point where you are just clogging up your torch tip or overheating the tip and it starts backfiring because it will not reach mid way into the pin. The oxygen lance will cut directly through the center relieving the pressure so you can get the pin out. Normally on that size pin, I blow through one end and then the other and the pins come right out. Hope this helps, Wrench2556:drinkup
If you cant remove the bottom one pull the top one and reseal the cylinder on the unit
It's out! It's out! Thanks for all the suggestions, guys - there are some new ones to this thread that will be of value to others too. I wanted to know all the options because I didn't know how difficult it would be to get the pin out, and my resources are limited. The Kano Kroil that I was applying did not penetrate a bit. A friend, who is wiser that I, and who helped me out, said that it is a poor penetrant, and he swears by PB Blaster for that purpose. On my "to buy" list. He made me some custom drifts out of hardened steel. These, a much bigger hammer and a more muscular (and accurate) fellow than I solved the problem (I always did believe in a bigger hammer, but a better driver helps too ). I hadn't tried a sledge yet because I was waiting for the Kroil to do its work (This guy and his buddies used to drive pins out of tank treads with a drift in the field all day. I did not know about this special experience until yesterday - he is an experienced gunsmith by trade). He put the pin on his lathe and put some fine threads on it, to give the grease somewhere to go, because the pin tolerance is very small. This cleaned the pin up pretty good, too; just a little grit work on the lathe needed. Another key to success was having a smaller diameter, short, hard (non-mushrooming) drift to start the pin, and once the drift was in the lug, a larger diameter to drive the pin the rest of the way. Another trick was to weld a piece of rebar perpendicular near one end of the drift to make a handle - much safer and easier than vice grips. The sledge had only about a 20" handle, which ensured solidly placed blows. It was a 2-man job for extraction and replacement of the pin. Glad that's solved with less grief that feared! Thanks again, C.
I haven't read this thread from beginning to end, but I wanted to mention about the driver pins I've seen. Some have a piece of 1" wire cable welded to them as a handle or a piece of rebar, as cgraham mentioned, with a rubber sleeve on it(heater hose), to give the hands a break. Added this picture from a Cat manual, although I'm not got enough to hit that pin every time with a 12 lb sledge.Phil
I should have mentioned that the gunsmith friend appropriately made the drivers out of scrap gun barrel: that material is REALLY hard! Nice illustration, Phil. I know of an incident where a wrist was smashed against a track as a result of holding the driver directly, instead of with a tool. <> Sorry, Phil, I'm not holding for you w/o a handle! You don't even have to miss, an off-center or angled blow will do it too. C
Cgraham, Good idea not to hold a pin for me to hit. I missed one once with a 10 lb sledge hammer and hit a guy in the head. Just grazed him but he had to go to the hospital for stitches. Although he admitted he had started removing the pin, it was too hard to stop it when I was half way there. Dangerous work. I have seen large heads welded on driver pins and rounded a bit to make it safer and easier to hit. The bolt together master link ended what is seen in the picture and was a blessing. Didn't mean to bring a skeleton out of my closet, but it just might prevent an accident out there. Phil
Anybody have any experience removing the type of pins on a CAT 988? They appear to have some sort of collet holding them in, with 3 bolt holes. On one side of the loader arm the flange is welded on. Is there some sort of puller that's generally used? We tried asking the local CAT dealership, but it must be a trade secret because they were totally unwilling to help.
Welcome to the forum exporter. Can't help you with your question, but if you don't get an answer here, post it on the A.C.M.O.C forum and you will certainly get your answer there. Phil
Can you get the cylinder and the pad near a press? I would heat it up and try pressing it out.
hotsacks Ever get that pin out? Just curious to how you did.
Cylinder seals Don't mean to hijack, but I'm still too new to post my own thread. Have any of you guys ever heard of soaking a wiper seal (while it's still on the cylinder) with brake fluid, thereby expanding it slightly and slowing down a cylinder leak? Not sure if this is a myth, but an experienced repair man told me about it. My stabilizer cylinder has a slow leak at the seal. Not quite bad enough to justify a re-seal job yet. Thanks, VA
brake fluid will cause seals to expand and can alsocause prematue failure in some materials.
Exporter There is more than one style pin on a 988 I am assuming you have the tapered pins that can be adjusted- best way for me was to buy three grade 8 bolts (or harder) mig weld a very small washer to the end of bolt (smaller than bolt Dia.- this well prevent the end of bolt from mushrooming) screw these into the cap (or bearing) to jack out of bucket - when buying the bolts get the most thread posible, you will need it- usally shorter (not the shortest) have more threads than real long bolts
There is no puller used to remove those collets. Each of those holes in the collets are fine thread. You need to get three bolts that fit that fine thread hole and run them into the collet, the bolts screw into the collet and push the collet away from the pin when they hit the pin. (dont be afraid to get the big impact out for this job!!) Make sure your bolts are a high grade and long enough, usually about 6" is good. The hole in the middle of the collet is for assemblying them and squeezing the collet back into the bore and around the pin. Hope this is helpful with your problem. I've done them on the 988F series, dont know what you have but good luck.
frozen pin i had a similar problem, and instead of cutting the pin i decided to removed the pin closet to the frame. then you can take the gland off and reseal it on the opposite side. worked for me, i hope this help
I am assuming this orginal post was about Deere backhoe?
pins no sorry, forgot to quote hotsacks on his frozen pin problem.