I have a 1947? Caterpillar road grader that I just recently purchased. If anybody could give me some advice on diagnosing the problems it would be greatly appreciated. It's a 3U serial number. My back ground on heavy equipment and working on diesel motors are none. I bought this grader for farm use only. The pony motor runs great, the diesel motor runs great. The diesel motor starts right up with no problems. The grader has been sitting up for several years with an occasional start up every three or four months per previous owner. Here is the first problem. We noticed the oil was watered down with diesel. You could smell the diesel and by the velocity of the oil really watery it looks like an almost 50-50 mix of diesel and oil. We drained the oil fuel mixture and filled it back up with oil. We started it back up and within 20 minutes in was full of fuel again, the oil ran like the consistency of water almost. There must have been 10 gallons of diesel fuel mixed in with the oil. What can cause such a large amount of fuel to enter the oil pan so quickly and at the same time the diesel motor run like new at the same time? No black smoke out the top or nothing? The second problem I'm having is there is a large amount of hydraulic oil leaking from the vent on the steering box. Thanks in advance.
Two common problems. The fuel is most likely coming from the shot o-ring seal between the filter housing and the fuel injection pump. When they go fuel will migrate to the engine oil sump. There is also the same seal at the governor end of the fuel gallery. Replace them both while your in there. #318 o-rings. On the steering leak, the piston rod seal is shot, shaft most likely grooved, pitted and rusted from water accumulating in the cavity. Usually takes shaft repair/replacement to fix along with new seals. Some route a hose back to the hydraulic tank and live with the leakage.
Thank you Oil Magnet for your reply. I'm still having a little trouble fully understanding on how to fix the problem. I understand that the most likely cause is worn out seal(s) that should be replaced first. Like I mentioned earlier I don't have a clue when it comes to working on diesel engines. I will say that I'm very mechanically inclined and I don't think I have ever taken my auto to the shop to have anything fixed except for a muffler and pipes put on. When it come to auto's if it's broke I can fix it. If I had a repair manual for this grader that had good break downs of the engine I could probably figure the exact locations of these seals and have an ideal what you mean when you say governor side and the seals between the filter housing and the fuel injector pump. I was given a parts book with the grader called NO. 112 Motor Grader gasoline Starting parts catalog but didn't offer me much help. When replacing these seals what exactly am I taking apart to get to these seals and will I run into timing issues or is there anything I should know that could get me into trouble while attempting this fix? I know where the filter housing is and I believe the fuel injector pump is located below the fuel injectors? A little more detail would be appreciated. If you knew of a graphic drawing that you could link to would be very helpful too. Also you said the steering leak the piston rod seal is shot. Could you tell me the location of this seal and the seal number? Is it located somewhere in the steering gear box or is it located along the pressure lines? I noticed what looks like a relief valve on top of grader between gear box and cab is that the location of the rod seal? If the seal is located in the gear box is this a major project in the rod is not pitted? The hose re route is a good ideal and already have that in place now for a temporary fix but there is another small like bleeder screw that is next to the vent line on the gear box that I re routed is oozing a small amount of fluid out of it. I'm not sure if I can cap this valve off or not with causing it to build up to much pressure and burst a seal. Thanks again Oil magnet
Your 112 book is for a D4 engine sized grader. The 12 is a D6 engine based machine. Not sure if much will apply. Should be easy to find the correct books on ebay for your machine.
You really need to get the parts and service manual for the grader. The 112 parts book will work for the fuel seals if it's for the D315 engine. The D315 engine is the same arrangement, just two more cylinders with the D318 in the #12 Grader. You will need to remove the fuel injection pump and governor to access the seals. Injection timing is not an issue as the drive coupling has an off set tang that only goes together one way. You won't find the steering booster in the 112 parts manual because they normally have manual steering. Here is the parts diagram for the #12. Seal that fails along with shaft problems is part #6F5772.
My machine has four injectors so I have the D4 D315 Engine then. After I find a decent book on the D315 engine I will start this project. I will post back on how everything went so other members might benefit from it. If you know of a good service manual off hand for that engine that you thought would be a good choice let me know. Thanks again for your help.
If in fact it is a #112 grader s/n 3Uxxxx with 4-cylinder engine you need this manual.
Yes it is the #112 D315 engine. I found the book you said I should get above with Form FEO30552-2 located to the top right of the cover but I also found the same book with a different Form number which is Form 30522-02 without the FEO. Is there a difference in these book? The reason why I ask is because there are a lot more of the Form 30522-02 books available that look a lot cleaner verses a couple FEO30552-2 that look really beat up. I'm assuming The FEO30552-2 is more detailed with more pages or is there really any difference between the two manuals. The manual cover's look identical except for the different form number's.
In general the straight numbered manuals are older/earlier editions than the ones with the letter designations. The one shown is a 1960 printing with 299 pages, 02 or 2 is the revision edition. That's the only version I have so I can't compare the two. You still haven't stated the s/n of the grader you have. We know it is not a #12 but it also could be a #212 which uses the 4-cylinder D311 engine, same as the D2 tractor. s/n should be on the block, below the head in back of the pony clutch housing and on the LH side of the back bone where it slopes down to the front wheels.
I guess it would be a good ideal to verify that I do have the D315 before I buy the service manual and find out I bought the wrong one. The machine is still sitting where I bought it from and it will be a few days before I make it back over there to get the serial number. He's going to let he do the repair's while it's sitting at his place. If the repair is successful I will just drive it home because it's only fifteen miles away. I did take some pictures of it that have some numbers in it but they are probably not the one you need. Here is a few numbers that I see in the pictures but they are probably just all part numbers. 4F5142, 588466,4F8083 could be 4F8063, 6F3787, 8B3447, 2H2947, This number 1H5768 is in bold and is on side of block below alternator. Number on exhaust manifold is 8F1787. When I go back over I will look for that number and post back here it will probably be a few days unless I got lucky and you see it here.
The 1H5768 block casting number is for a D315 engine effective 1954.
He told me he thought it was a 1947 but wasn't sure. If that block casting number was effective starting in 1954 then that would make it a 1954 or later model Grader if the motor wasn't replaced sometime in the past. Thanks for your time old magnet on looking this up.
That's why the s/n is needed.
That's a big IF .
True, would not be hard to imagine that sometime in the last 68 years a 1947 machine might have a few parts that were not original to it! I'm sure that grader could tell some good stories of things it has done and things done to it in those 68 years!
There is a tag just like this one on the engine.
3U5099 is a #112, 1954 model.
Sweet, I would rather have a 54 than a 47. If I can fix this problem it wasn't a bad deal for 1250.00.
I got my service manual in and I'm having a hard time figuring out what seals I need for my fuel leaking into the oil pan. In the service manual form FE030522-02 on page 119 is shows #2 as a seal but when I try to look up part number in the no.112 motor grader parts catalog I don't see it or the part number. Is the seal actually attached to the fuel filter housing is that where I should be looking or the fuel injection pump. You stated that the most likely problem was a bad O-ring but the service manual shows a seal in that spot where I think it's located. You also stated I should go ahead and replace the governor side why I was in there which I'm going to do but I don't see that seal or O-ring either.
Not Old Magnet and I don't have the parts book to look at but just want to point out that Cat tends to refer to orings as seals.
The seals, part #8B4967 are shown on both ends of the fuel injection pump housing. As I stated in post #2 they are actually trade number dash 318 o-rings.
I started this repair today and got off to a bad start. Behind the fuel injection pump where the three bolts are located and about a two inch working gap it was full of dirt, small rocks, hard and black tar like crud and frozen like cement. I had to take the exhaust off so I could chip away at it. I would compare cleaning that out to cutting through a steel bar with tread, it was a total nightmare but I finally broke through and remove the injection pump. I found a small brass needle bearing in the injection pump and I'm not sure what's that all about. I'm going to upload a picture of it and exactly where it was located so I can maybe find out what kind of new problems I will be getting into now.
I'm thinking that may be one of the small pins used to retain the fuel filter rods. Have you had the filter tower open? The pin would be on the downstream side of the filters and possibly could work its way into the pump fuel gallery.
No I haven't been in there, but the previous owner took the lid off the filter housing and pulled the filter out a little and dropped it back down, he never pulled it all the way out, he was just showing me how to change it. Here is a picture of the needle bearing but it could also be a pin. You wouldn't think it would be a needle bearing because it's made out of brass. I found it about three inches down the hole it's pictured next to. It was sticking to the side of the hole being held there by the fuel oil mixture.
Here is a picture of the O-ring seal. I'm not sure if that would be considered blown but it looks nothing like the new one I have.
Hard to tell from here, but that looks like permatex black (I think that's what they're talking about in the "magic silicone" thread). See how the excess is pushed out on the bottom? Pull it apart to see if it's hardened like rubber or still soft like silicone. Definitely not what an O ring is supposed to look like
The pin may not be a recent event. That's typical of the shape the o-ring takes and does look like it's been goobered up with silicone. The ferrule/sleeve may also need replacing if it's corroded/buggered up. The phenolic material rods that hold/hang the fuel filters are easily busted where the pin hole goes.
Yeah I think you guys are right it look and behaves like silicone. Somebody must have put some silicone around the old O-ring before they reinstalled the injection pump from a previous repair. The old O-ring feels like hard rubber and is dry rotted. I tore a piece off the edge and it's a darker black and stretches like a rubber band.
I'm fairly confident that I can replace this seal and ferrule/sleeve if it's pitted or damaged and slide the fuel injection pump back on and everything will line right up because nothing has been moved. The cam hasn't been turned so the slot should line right up. What I am worried about is replacing the governor side seal. Once I pull the governor side off I'm not so sure what's going to fall out of there or if I will rotate something out of position. What I would like to know is If the governor side seal was blown can that cause fuel to leak into the old pan? If so then I have no choice but to replace both because it could be the one or the other or both leaking. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, is it worth the risk if I don't need to replace it right now. For all I know it's just like the other side, just unbolt it slide it off and replace the seal and bolt it back up with nothing getting out of whack?
All you need to do to remove the governor is disconnect it from the rack. Nothings going to jump out at you. If the rear seal leaks it dumps fuel into the governor and fuel injection pump cam and lifters. If the one seal is shot so is the other. The injection pump cam has an offset tang so you can't screw up the pump timing. The task has been done many times without issue.
Old magnet, I want to confirm that I'm only replacing both seals #8B4967 on each side of the injection pump rack which I finished today. The reason why I ask is because you mention in you're last post "The injection pump cam has an offset tang so you can't screw up the pump timing". The injection pump rack is on top where I'm replacing the seals and the cam is below so there is no reason for me to take anything below apart is there or were you just pointing out that I'm not going to get in there and screw anything up because of that reason? Looking at my parts book the only seal I see is 1H5959 which I replaced since it was easy to get to.
Here is a picture of the other seal on the other side of the fuel pump rack. look's weird and nothing like the new one.
That one doesn't bother me at all. That first one I didn't think of the former "mechanic" using silicone on the old o ring like that. This one you can kind of see how it started out round. Just be sure to get all the old rubber off the metal. The offset pump drive means that you can spin the pump a dozen times and it will only go back on the correct way.
Yes, replacing the 4B4865=1H5959 seal is a good idea. Otherwise your right on cue. Old seal/0-ring shape is exactly what is expected. Delmer is correct on the pump drive. Put it back together and you should be good to go. I'd also recommend you open up the filter tower and clean the body out good and install new fuel filters. Fill the tower back up with fuel before putting the lid on so's you don't have to crank it full with the transfer pump.
I have the fuel injection pump installed and everything together. I ran into a few problems installing it. It took me literally like 15 times lifting that pump up and it not aligning with the slot and in the process I dented the new seal and had to replace it. I didn’t have anything with me to dab on there to see exactly how far off I was. By looking at the other side it should have went in on the first attempt. I’m going to attempt to start it up on Monday since its going to rain for the next two day’s. Hopefully all goes well.
The usual trick there is to support the pump on a sling so your not wrestling with the weight trying to mate the tang drive. Not always available in the field. Good luck with your start up and let us know how it goes.
No luck today starting grader. I did as you advised but for some reason I couldn't get any fuel pressure. Fuel pressure gauge staying at zero that's even after turning over the diesel engine for about a total of 25 minutes. I'm not sure what to try next.
Are you getting a good flow from the supply line to the transfer pump? Disconnect line and check. Next step is to check the fuel pressure regulator valve in the transfer pump inlet. Remove the inlet fitting/housing and look for junk in system, broken spring or shot valve and seat. Have you bled all the air out of the system?
No I haven't bled the fuel system, didn't know you had to and I don't know the procedure. I will start checking the other stuff out that you mentioned above tomorrow if I can get over there.
You will have to bleed the fuel system. The easiest way is to put a bit of air pressure into the fuel tank. Do not exceed 5 pounds. You do not want to bulge or split the tank. I use a rubber plumbers cap of the correct size with a schrader tire air valve glued into it. Do not put a clamp on it but simply push it down over the tank threads on the fill. Can't remember the size for sure but I think its a 4 or 4-1/2 inch rupper cap on the crawler fuel tanks. The grader may have the bigger cap under the seat. The rubber cap will blow off if you over pressure it saving your tank. There is a air bleeder on top side of the filter tower and also one bleeder for each cyclinder located between the injection pump and the engine block. There is a Cat tool for turning them but many do it with a small socket. When you get Good fuel flow with no air coming from the filter tower move on to the injection pump. Once you got fuel out of all of them it should not take much to fire it off. I have also used a air blow nozzle stuck thru a rag covering the fuel tank fill to pressurize if you have a extra set of hands helping you. Again, it takes very little pressure to push the fuel thru. Good luck.
Bleed the air out of the system first then check the items I mentioned if your not successful at getting fuel pressure. Are you starting out with new filter elements? Don't expect fuel to flow very fast when using gravity flow or air pressure from the tank and the engine not running. The flow you get has to pass through the transfer pump clearances. I don't recall the elevation of a full fuel tank on the grader but in some cases gravity feed will do the bleeding if you open the vents and are patient.
I finally got back over to the grader and managed to get it started and I don't have any more fuel in the oil pan. I drove it home last night and tried to grade this afternoon. Grading is a lot harder than I thought it would be, you really got to have some talent to actually grade. I thought you just put the blade down and drive up the road. I still have a lot more work to do to get it back into good working order. I still have the steering box leak to fix, it grinds when shifting into any gear, the pony motor has a lot of blow by and the front seal leaks like crazy. The break's need bled. I guess I need to start a new tread or new post when I start on one of the other project's. Thanks for all your help and great advice because you guys have no ideal what a big headache you have save me and I'm sure a lot of money.