I need some pointers from the more experienced operators on here please. Im on an old D6C 69j. The one that gives you a headache after about 5 hrs with open cab haha. Anyway, I've got about 2,500hrs in the seat so am fairly familiar with the machine. All hrs done on farm doing the usual stuff us blokes do, stickraking,pushing timber live and dead, cleaning dams, wet and dry. Contouring, clearing fence lines etc. Im halfway clearing a line now about 3000mtrs. And the old fence dissapears up a steep hill with thick scrub. I need to try to clear the old fence and make a track for the guys to build the new fence. I walked the hill yesterday arvo to see what im up against and doesnt look good. Ive got at least a 45 degree hill with a series of ridges etc and the old fence and trees and very loose soil with lots of rock. I need to cut into it without sliding off this widowmaker hill. The track has to go along the side so im looking at a steep climb on my right of the cab and a long long way down on the left of the cab. Anyone got some tips for me please. I know to keep the machine level and not play around near the loose stuff on the edge. I feel the job will take longer to make it safe to work on but the farmer will want it done quick.
I havnt cut a hill before so any tips welcomed thanks.
Yair . . . HandyAndy . Putting in big cuts for just a fence line is usually a pointless exercise . . . the fact there is an old fence there proves it can be fenced and you may be better off changing the style of fencing rather than embarking on an earthmoving project that will be used once and can be the source of erosion problems in the future. If you are thumping wooden posts you may be better of going to star pickets or suspension fence with concreted in steel strainers or a combination of both . . . anything but digging. You mention rock. You are pretty much pizzing into the wind on fair dinkum side hill work if the tractor doesn't have an angle blade and rippers . . . a compressor, jack hammer and a case of jelly might come in handy too. I kid you not. I don't know your country but you only have to strike one stump or guley on grade that you can't shift and you pretty much are stuffed. Side hill cuts are best made with the carriage way all on "cut" particularly if you have visions of getting a tractor and a thumper up there, at forty five degrees I wouldn't trust the side cast material particularly with the thumpers vibration . . . most of it will probably slip away with the first decent rain. To get that width you will be surprised at the amount of dirt involved. Draw a forty five degree hill to scale and you will see that if you have a three meter wide carriage way on firm "cut" you will also have a three meter vertical face on the uphill side of the cut . . . big job. Cheers.
Yeah im hearing you and im not looking forward to the job at all. The old fence would have all been done by hand. Maybe in the 40's or 50's. It is now virtually inacsessable by foot with the 50 years regrowth timber, mainly smallish tangly looking stuff. A fencing nightmare... My plan of attack so far will be to try and cut a 3 blade width track as best i can while keeping hard dirt under me. Ive got tilt cylinder and rippers. The real bad bit is around 200 metres long. So whats the normal way? Just keep working in a c shape and feed it over the side without sinking the downhill track into the soft stuff? Any other methods. I reckon id need a pad about 30ft wide. Some of the places i have seen fences go makes me wonder
An old timer once told me, "Just push everything that doesn't look like a road over the bank." Basically, you've got the right idea. Work from the high side and push to the low side. Don't try to get it level right away. It takes quite a slope to roll a D6. Your high side corner bit will want to pull the Cat in that direction so you'll be on the opposite steering clutch a lot. Take light cuts and just keep working away at it. Once you start it should become clear what you need to do. We might be from opposite ends of the planet but I agree with Scrub Puller. Find a better place to put the fence or a easier way to do it. Everything he says is exactly right.
Its a boundary fence and neither of them agreed to move the line to a better spot. Neither of them has even walked the line to see what im up against lol. "Just grab that dozer and make a track up there" they said. The farmer owns the machine but doesnt even know how to start it. I cleared 1000 metres yesterday in the good stuff but id say ill be a week in this 200 meter bad bit. Those 2 fellas building the fence have a few more days to catch up to me. So ive got that long learn how to cut this hill. One of the blokes went for a walk up the hill and said he has to go away for a few weeks to do something....hahaha. I dont blame him. Hahaha. " yeah boss, i'll be sick for a few weeks too" ring me up when you finish that fence! Lol
If you are set at doing this, I would recommend pioneering in a single wide path from the bottom up, then widening it to your desired width from the top down. I like to pioneer uphill if possible as it is hard to overtravel and get in trouble. Take a light cut with the uphill side of the blade, and then tilt the blade as you go forward. This will help pitch the material over the side. Do not go out too far trying to push every last crumb. You can leave some and the dirt in the next push will take that dirt over. This leaves you a little more margin of safety. As you climb, you will get the tractor tilted to the side some, but don't go too far, and make sure you have a level spot to back up onto. Also, as you proceed, leave a berm on the downhill side to help keep you from the error of getting too close and sliding over the side. If your hillside is truly 45 degrees, then to get one dozer width plus a small berm, you may have a cut that is nearly 6 meters, or 20 ft, as most material won't stand at a true vertical as you cut it down. If your cut needs to be 30 ft wide in the final version, start your first cut at least 45 feet back away from the edge, and however much higher it takes to get that far away. The reason for this is that if you start too narrow, it is hard to impossible to get back to the top of the cut to make it just a bit wider. I have built many steep roads over the years, and I am sure I am leaving things out, but the most important part, to me, is to not get in over your head. Everything you do in steep ground should be done slow and easy without being in a rush. If you have large rocks in this cut, be sure not to let undermined ones roll down on top of you, and also do not run your tracks out on these rocks as you push material over the side. This is a good way to take a slide that sends you over the edge. If a rock won't roll over the edge this time, push around it without getting too close to the edge, then work on it more when you have a good place to sit. Once you get the initial path to the top, then you can turn around and widen it to your desired width pushing downhill using gravity to help. Just don't get too close to the edge as you push material over. Good luck on your endeavor.
Yair . . . You are getting some good responses HandyAndy! Okay we have established that the line can't be shifted and the hill is about forty five degrees . . . just out of curiosity how steep is the grade across the slope? I believe JDOFMEMI is spot on when he says take the first cut (pioneering) up hill and do the bulk of the pushing down hill. If there is any of that alignment bullshyte you are going to need to set up accurate backsight markers as there is a bit of an art to holding grade and line. All you can do is side cut and feed over staying fairly level and you will soon realise why Caterpillar came out with differential steering and Hydros.(big grin) Seriously though this sort of work can be hard on clutch steer tractors . . . more so without an angle blade and, (I am not telling you how to suck eggs here) but with the out side track running in loose dirt it is the classic scenario for "slingshotting" particularly when cutting up hill. All the best with it and, as always we would love some pictures of the project. Cheers.
Ive built skid trail on some nasty ground w/ a deere 550g. I like starting at the bottom, and making just enough trail so you can get up to turn around, then turn around and really move the material coming down. Like others have said don't trust the side cast material, and start your road above when the finished bed will be cause once you cut the slope your not getting up there again. Take your time, and think thru what your going to do. Be ready for the unexpected, take your time, and remember its not going to happen in a pass or two.
Thanks men, yeah good tip about starting higher and working down to the finished line height, probly just saved me there because i was just going to cut in where the fence sits now but that would put me out in the soft stuff and the new fence in the wrong spot. Good one thanks. There is a gully going down the hill and i need to go accross it. Actually theres 2. Ill try to fill them in somehow as i go. Then at the bottom over the other side there is a creek with steep banks to fence across. I might have to try and batter the banks down moving parralel to the water so the blokes can get a strainer in either side and try not to get bogged.
One guy owns the top half of hill and the other owns the bottom half. The line is almost horizontal and im cutting a track across the side. The climb to the track i need to cut is not too bad and down the other side is not to steep either. You can get a quad bike up the height of my track but this stupid fence runs around the hill and its steep a 4 wheel drive quad bike will not go up it. The dozer wouldnt go straight up either so shes steep. Sounds like i need to start higher and just take it steady. Hopefully i dont find and big rocks. Glad i asked here first. Its a busy job in behind the sticks on this old girl. Like a praying mantis with arms and legs going everywhere at once. Got any tips about the headaches? 5 hrs in dead timber or dangerous stuff and im looking for the panadol. Just me or does everyone get em with open stacks and cabs.
Ill get some pictures when i go back out there. Just waiting for the call as they want the fencing done up to the hill before i push the rest.
A good set of earplugs work wonders for me. Is it possible you are leaking exhaust into the cab? Is the fan pushing or pulling?
I wear a beanie,sunnies, and earmuffs. Only get headaches on the dozer. Might try the plugs instead and see. the fan pushes away.
if it were me i would use the excavator to do the side hill work........
Yeah that's a 30 tonne the farmer had in to help me with a couple dams earlier in the year. $300 an hour. That contractor was hopelessly slow and green, he just bought the machine and charged top dollar per hr but got sent home for being way too slow at shifting the dirt. poor guy had good intentions but didn't know what he was doing. I'd love to get behind the sticks on that thing, she'd make light work of my fence line. sadly it's just me and the old D6. appreciate all the replies, I really like the tip of starting high.... I would have figured it out by myself, after it was already too late. :notworthy
I'm no expert, but that's what I was thinking before I saw the pic of the excavator. Looks like a much better tool for that kind of work
Cutting steep roads in with an excavator is sometimes easier, but you can also get in trouble even easier if you do not understand what you are doing with it. I have cut tracks up grades far steeper than 45 degrees, and with up to a 900 ft drop to fret with. I will use the dozer as first choice until the going gets steeper than it can possibly handle. The best bet is having both to work with, but I would not shy away from much with only a dozer. I don't have any time on a flat track D-6, but on the D-8H and D-8K, I would run the transmission 10 gallons over the full mark when in steep ground to keep the trans pump from loosing prime and sending me freewheeling down the side of a mountain. By the way, I would love getting anywhere near $300 per hour for a 30 ton machine. The rate here is barely more than half of that.
I've already overfilled the trans and put in a new tranny pump, full tank of diesel, fix a couple of leaks, I even put a new set of cutting tips on the blade last weekend, I tightened up the tracks more than usual so I should be good to have a go. I think all the thick scrub probably makes the job look worse than it actually is. With open cabs, do blokes strap in or bail out when doing steep stuff?
Hey Andy, you should be fine with your old D6; pretty tough to flop those things. The VERY FIRST time I operated a machine was on a rented Case 550 dozer building my driveway (some very steep canyon/wash grades at 40%, see below). There are experts here giving you great advice, so here's some from a novice: go carefully and slow, and use the machine like a surgeon uses a scalpel. Hillsides can really be an eyesore done haphazardly, and if you get the job done carefully and safely, your boss will be happier in the long run. Good luck on the project...
Use an excavator.... really? I think good dozer hands must be hard to find in your neck of the woods. A 30 - 40k pound dozer equipped with a proper road building angle blade and a good operator can really sling some dirt. There is no backing up, you moving material all the time. When you get to the end of the road, turn around, **** the blade the other way, and head back, again, working all the while. I'll bet in easy digging your tossing a cu yard a second over the edge. Excavators do have there place though, when you get the trail in and want to make a truck road out of it. After you can no longer single pass the dirt over the edge with the dozer, then the excavator shines as the dirt only needs to be handled once. But then you still need to dress up with the dozer after the hoe has done its thing.
The excavator would shift the few big trees and pluck the rocks out of the way easier than the dozer can This country im working in makes it hard to carry the dirt for a track as the rocks are too large so there is no single pass available. I dont have a boss ramming effiency crap down my throat all day. I drive it for free because i like it and i am free to get the jobs done however i want. Im pretty good on the machine doing what i know but i have no problems asking the older and wiser operators for tips here and there. If theres an easier and faster way im all ears but in this case all we have is the d6 and the only cost is fuel and maintenance so it doesnt get much cheaper or efficient than that.
HandyAndy Handy Andy, that's a nice looking D6C. You can push the brush out working perpendicular to the slope as much as possible. Leave some old posts or sections of the fence to mark the property line. Tilt the blade and bench a path for the new fence-when you get to the end or a good place to turn around, bench your way back to the start-it'll go faster than you think. A good seatbelt is a must for keeping your butt in the seat-makes it easier to concentrate on the work-a good suspension seat with a seatbelt would be even better. As for the headaches-see a chiropractor or a massage therapist and try to relax your neck as you work-steep sidehills are a tense situation
Thanks Phil, with what you said i can tell you've done a bit of fence work in your days eh. The machine was bought at an auction and had rippers and a stick rake. It has faint painting telecom up the side and it must have had glass in it at some stage but didn't when we got it. Im live on a farm out of town and do odd jobs for the farmer in exchange for a house and the use of a few acres where i have built a large environment controled shed i use to run my own company as a commercial bait worm farm. The farmer gets a guy to fix all his broken stuff and operate machines here and there, and i get a house and a spot to run my business. Works out real good. Im a self taught dozer operator so some of the terms you blokes talk about im unfamiliar with. Im real good in timber, and can do very neat work quickly and with minimum fuel burnt. I like trying to plan ahead the whole day, so any time i change direction or lift the blade to dump a small pile of sticks,stumps in what looks like a funny spot.... Theres always a reason why. Coz they will go next time when i bring that other stuff around that other tree over there and that saves be driving an extra 20 metres in 10 minutes time! I dont need a boss ramming effiency, i do it to myself and i think thats why i get headachs...too much concentrating. Anyway, i like all the responses here. I know why they call these old cats "crawlers" coz after a day in the rocks, you slide down off the machine and crawl back to the ute to go home to bed Hahaha. I wouldnt mind getting a good book on dam building, i saw 2 dozers working on a farm a couple years back and these guys were true pro's. When they finished, it looked perfect. They didnt even leave a single turn mark any where on the grass outside the dam and the inlet looked like it was cut with a stringline. Any recomendations for a good dozer work book?
Yair . . . HandyAndy . With the hours you have up I think you are beyond the need for any books . . . the old ones put out by Yeomans give some pointers on dam and tank design and construction. Methods change with country and available machinery. I think Yeomans puts a lot of store in cut off trenches put in with a scoop . . . out of the question with a dozer and we just line the bank with clay. If you get into serious earthwork Google up "front to back dozing" or "slot dozing" . . . getting things straight and level just means working to the pegs. Cheers.
Yeah ok, I sort of figured out making slots by myself. its the only way to keep up, pushing wet slop away from a dam being cleaned out. Boiling it out gets nowhere without a slot. Most of the earthworks on this farm was done before i was born. Mostly patchup errosion work now but raking sticks and clearing regrowth keeps me fairly busy. Theres 40,000 acres here and plenty of fences are always being redone. When i saw that hill i figured id handle it ok but i picked up a couple tricks here so thanks men.
Andy if you have the time, snap a couple before and after photos and post them if you can. Good luck.
Yair . . . viking1 . Just loved the photo of what I assume is your place. There is a strange serenity to semi-desert country and, as I have mentioned I would feel right at home there. What do you do for water? Cheers.
Jobs done. On foot scrambling up and down the hills the job looked deadly. but once in the seat it looked easy. There was only a few spots and washouts at 45 and a couple of verticles where the dirt had built up on the topside of the old fence leaving a 4 ft drop on the bottom side the rest looked pretty straightforward once the trees were gone and I started getting it opened up. It was a rush job as the fencing guys only gave me one day to do 1.5km and I just finished on dark last night. Bit messy looking but good enough for the bush. here's a couple pictures, I should have took a lot more but didnt have time. Started in this gully and went up and down from there. didn't get an after pic, forgot but it looks good now.
Hey Scrubs, ya that's my place. I built everything that's out there (including my bridge below). I have a great well (water at 40'), so I'm in good shape. Andy, nice job done with minimal disturbance. Way to go.....
Yair . . . Good one HandyAndy ! Looks like it worked out okay in the end. Funny isn't it how it never looks as bad in photos? viking1 Yeah, as I said I'd feel right at home there. Are there any critters there for hunting or is that not your thing? Nice job on the bridge a lot hours went into that I reckon. Cheers.
I was thinking the same thing....ground that you can fall off of can almost look level in a photo.
This the normal I do. picture is a thousand words
I'm glad I didn't try to learn on your hill wild8r, looks like that would be slow going pioneering into that stuff. If it looks that steep in the picture I can imagine what it looks like for real! makes my hill look flat. there wouldn't be many volunteers to go for a joyride in your machine up in there i bet. My passenger asked if i could let him out, after he asked me for a lift to the top of the hill before I had the pass in. haha, he didn't like it when she kept slipping sideways on the rocks.
wheres that Bill; down Nelson or Oz ?? stumps are the battle, forestry roading, but would be easier with a D8R. Glad I never had stumps here !
Geez it worked ! That job would have been easier with your old D4E; Bill; but only had me old D4D was on the job. another view
Yair . . . D6 Merv and willd8r I used to really like those sidehill cuts, I will see if I can get some of my PNG pictures resurrected. Cheers.
PNG ! Some good country over there scrub ! And RAIN; a whole new meaning of the word worked up in ok tedi in 87; was a 'experience' to say the least.
Yup, a lot of hours into it for sure (mostly laying stone). As for critters, I used my loader last year to dress up a buck that a friendly deputy gave me after it had been hit by an SUV, & that has kept me stocked up on venison. I generally like to treat my wild critters as pets tho, LOL. I leave out water for them in the dog days of summer, so there are always plenty of all varieties around. My dog pack of 5 loves to carouse with the javelina piggies every morning.....
Yair . . . D6 Merv . I wanted to get up there for a look see. I failed the psychology test to get into Bougainville but my brother who was head stockman at Placer's station in the valley got me a job with shonky Pommy plantation owner who had shonky deal with Massey Ferguson to do some tropical trials on their new 3366 dozer ours I think was 0009. Viking1 . I understand your affinity to local critters . . . much the same here. Apologies to HandyAndy for getting O/T on his thread. Cheers.
HandyAndy thought it's easier to show pictures than try to explain. Merv In Nelson down around Havelock love the hills and the challenge.Very boring over here all flat.D4's did alot of work in the past Cheers
pics show the reason this old man would never make an operator. like to move dirt but where most people need it guess i aint going. live on 22 acres of mostly hill similar to that but the road was done before me i just maintain it.