I have about 145 acres near Greenville Texas, with about 100 acres I bale for hay and about 60 acres of it with Honey locust trees scattered about. They are mostly 2"-12" trees, 15'-30' tall, typically they grow in clusters so many grow together making large bases in clay soil. I probably have about 60 clusters, maybe 250-400 trees I want to eradicate. I'm familiar with remedy, how they grow, root shoots ect, I've dealt with them for a decade and have gotten rid of 100s, but I've let these grow too big. I have a Deere 333E 100hp CTL and recently bought a Danuser Tree Terminator. I cleared about a 4 acres area, about 40 trees with it this weekend, still have to burn and clean up some holes. Had to chainsaw several and spray, just taking too long to get stumps out, and I've broken off the bolts on the terminator's shield 3 times now, bending the crap out of it several times, caught/cut a line once, and I think this job is too big for what I have. It works great when it's a single tree, under 6", but there's few of those. I also use my property for a yearly offroad event that has about 600 ATVs and motorcycles and hundreds of campers, so I've been very hesitant to use a big dozer and spread millions of thorns. I'm tempted to hire, rent or buy an excavator. I had two guys that were supposed to give me estimates this weekend, but they never showed up. What size is best, weight and HP? I assume about 30k pounds, with a thumb, 125 ish HP? Seems thumbs rarely come with rentals. What's a good price to have an excavator come out and do this type job, per week? 1-2 weeks? Also might do some pond work while it's here if trees don't eat up the entire budget. I think paying a good operator to pull em, while I help build burn piles with mine and grab the smaller ones. I have a 110 HP tractor as well. Trying to avoid getting more than usual number of flats in my tractors, baler, cutters, rakes, trailers, UTVs, motorcycles ect ect. I tried a neighbors Dymax tree shear, biggest one I've even seen, cut a big 12" tree great, didn't leave much stump at all (I sprayed it good). But I had to search for a single like that, not many. It wasn't good at clusters, because it could easily get around any one or two of them, but there is a knuckle near the end of the blades that would always hit a tree after cutting just a couple inches and then stop. It was almost impossible to position where it wouldn't. So what's my most cost effective option? If I have to spend over $12k , I'd start leaning more towards buying something and chipping away at it in the next few years. Also considering a different shear, like Jenkins unit, looks like it might take bites better and could get thru in 3-5 bites? My 333E easily handles them once they are down. Thoughts?
We are doing a contract job like yours right now, over here in Denton. Clearing Mesquite and Honey Locust trees and stumps. We have found the most efficient way to get rid of the trees/stumps, is with an excavator. A JD, Model 103G, with nice sharp teeth on the bucket is working best. THis way, we get a lot of the roots as we dig the stumps out. We are renting the machine by the month at Rental One. We found that the next smaller machine, the JD75G, is not powerful enough to dig out the stumps in a timely manner. In the past, we have tried forestry mulching and stump grinding. This excavator is working better, and getting more of the roots. note: A bigger excavator would be even better, but those get kind of pricey.
Those honey locust thorns man! They are neat, gnarly looking trees but death traps!
Sorry, that is a 130G. Jeff
If your interested in tag teaming it I could bring a mulcher over and cut them a few feet high or 10’ high, grind the stumps and you could drag the rest to the burn pile. Or I could bring a saw but it’s going to take longer and not get the stumps ground down. I can get them flush to the ground with the mulcher. I’m in Paris so your not far off. I’ve done literally tens of thousand of trees this way so it works and its pretty efficient. Sounds like your steer can handle a set of big grapples I could bring over with me to. Your going to have lots of work to do after digging that many stumps, just a heads up because fixing the holes will be more time consuming than digging them up.
FYI we can do what took you all weekend in just a couple hours,
Mulch it as fine as possible to minimize any remaining thorns. When the stumps resprout, spot spray with a good herbicide to kill them off permanently. If you want to keep your grasses, Crossbow should kill the woody growth without killing the grasses. A rubber tired mulcher can cover those spotty areas, quickly. I covered 22 acres of "Seek & Destroy" locust patches in a day for a local cattle farmer that suffered several blind cattle. Trees ranged from emergent growth to 15" dbh trees. Horsepower is king for covering lots of acreage. That and thin density of growth. Yesterday's work was NOT thin. It was more like hair on a dog's back, but with Sweet Gums in damp conditions. This machine has done a lot of locust trees over the years and to date, no flats from the thorns.
I have been hesitant to use a mulcher, but this may be one of my best options. Cut as low as possible, and get the stump just below ground level, I grab and pile trees in burn pile, and jump out and spray. What size of machine/mulcher do you have? My cell number is 214-802-278seven. Text me with a guesstimate on how long you think it might take the two of us to do this job (I know you really need to see it, and probably just do some to really know for sure) and a general price for a weeks worth of running the machine. Thanks, for the response. I'll try to post a few pics if that helps.
I’ll shoot you a text later today, if you can get a few pics that would be great as well or I can run over and take a look.
@treemuncher I just visited your website, man, you've got some monster equipment! Good stuff. I wish I lived closer so I could apply with you for a job!
Thanks for the complement but no chance for any hires. I've been working alone for nearly 24 years now, ever since I started the mulching work. I enjoy my freedom too much to be anchored to those kinds of responsibilities and excessive paperwork that come with employees. I'm pretty darn hard on the one employee that I do have and even my wife refuses to work with me. Trust me, it is better this way.
I'll try to post a couple pics. . This is one of the reasons I can't leave millions of thorns everywhere, this is one race of three on Sunday. This area is more towards the front, very few Honey locusts, but I have about 8 miles of track. The area with the honey locusts is mostly in the 70 acres of bottomland in the middle. I cleared about a 4-5 acre area, but it took me several days and I have not burned or cleaned up yet. These pics were about 1/2 way done, pile is twice as big now. before after .
I’ll holler later, I could bring a big machine but with you piling them up to burn you couldn’t keep up. I’d throw a smaller machine on it and with those pics we could wipe it out pretty dang quick.
I probably wouldn't apply for a job with you really anyway @treemuncher but it'd be neat to see your machines in action! Nice looking chunk of land @Ray450
Couple more pics, I need a close up of the base of a typical bunch, but don't have any right now. I'd say this is about average, but there's always 4-8 all bunched up and grown together, some much larger than this. . So whats the best, most cost effective tool for the job. Big excavator with thumb? Tree saw to cut and and me to pile? Mulcher to cut bottom, push over, me to run em to pile with grapple, then mulcher gets stumps a couple inches below ground? Dover or big track loader? Tree shear? One designed like this might be better able to take bites and work thru the bunch about 8" at a time, while not as H/D as the Dymax, it doesn't have the knuckle at the end that stops it from taking a smaller bite. Nuclear bomb?
I have a tree shear and they suck, I have a tree saw and they pretty much suck to, have a tree saw on a TB260, guess what it sucks to other than clearing around ponds. I have a multitude of things but in my experience for what your wanting and your willingness to put sweat equity into it then grinding them at the base and then the stump, haul tree to piles to burn without a root ball that won’t burn and holes to fill in, it’s a no brainer to me lol
kind of like attacking an aircraft carrier with a 2 pound hammer
My dad brunt the thorns off this tree and this is what growed back. Theres not alot of these on the farm but theres some.The evergreens are bad but they dont have thorns.
@Old Doug Holy crap! I thought mine were bad with just some here and there, that's insane! A good lesson has been learned!
Looks like a hare scrambles race... cool.
What do you mean? Yes, pretty much same thing. Had 400 racers in three groups Saturday and two groups Sun. I have Reuben Frazier coming out to take a look. Sounds like he has a lot of equipment/experience in this area, so I look forward to seeing what he thinks after taking a look.
Dad pulled a locust tree out of the ground, roots and all with his old Farmall back in the day. Said it was the only way he could kill it completely and that the root system was insanely long.
I dont know if you know this but you can start a fire around the base and burn the thorns off guys do this when they are going to cut them up for fire wood but if you leave them after a burn the thorns will grow back like mad. Six inch thorns are normal.
Mowingman, have you considered a mesquite grubber. I looked at one for clearing Prickly Acacia here in Oz. There's a good report from the University of Texas, Dallas Campus including costings per acre if it interests you.
We looked at those things, but it seemed they would be too slow. Our areas are so thick with Mesquite that you can not even walk through them. Also, we usually are doing 20 or 30 acres of this at a time. The way the branches spread out, I don't think you could get close enough to the stump/root area to dig them efficiently. Some years ago, we used a forestry mulcher which worked great, for a while. However, many of the areas got no care/mowing for 10 years. Thus, the Mesquite grew back as shrubby trees. Now, we are digging them out with the excavator, and getting most of the roots. We are also going to use a root plow on the areas, plant grass, and hopefully they will mow the areas 2 or 3 times.year. The landowner furnishes the equipment and pays us by the hour. So, we will do it however they want it done. Jeff
The Uni claimed that no follow-up treatment was required for 5 years so although the grubber was slower the end job was better and more cost effective. I do appreciate the fact that the client is right. I watched a video of one working on a 20 ton machine, the plot was as you described. My thoughts were at the time was using a 30 ton digger fitted with along reach boom and standard dipper arm you could really up the anti
Looks like Rueban is coming out next week with his Cat CTL drum mulcher. He's going to be cutting them down n mulching down the stump, I'll be using my Deere 333E CTL with a grapple to make piles and burn. I'm hoping to spray some of the mulched down areas with some Remedy/diesel, before we get it covered up. Hopefully get the locusts burning while we are at it. I'll post a few pics of the progress. I bought some new Trojan 18" tracks for mine, deciding if I want to tackle the job of installing them this weekend before we start. The old tracks are narrower 400mm wide tracks, and have been derailing too often. But I don't think just moving trees around will cause any problems. Looking forward to getting most of these trees off my property, hopefully I won't get too many shoots in my hay next year.
If you are not digging out the stumps, the trees will come back with a vengeance. Sprouts will come up all over the place from the roots. Even spraying the stumps will not help. I cleared over 1000 acres of this type of mess during 2007-2009. now, I am back reclearing some of the same places, and Honey Locust and Mesquite trees are everywhere. I will say, areas that were mowed regularly, are not nearly as bad.
No not digging them out, he's mulching down into the ground, I assume a few inches down, not really sure. I had another bid that wanted to use a big dozer and root rake. Much more expensive, and I fear would spread thousands of thorns everywhere, and still not going to get/remove all the roots and sprouts from seeds. Rueban says he has good luck doing this technique. I know I'm going to get some sprouts no matter what, with all the roots and seeds that will be left no matter what type of removal is done, I'll have some to deal with. I've cleared some areas over the years, and honestly it doesn't seem to be the roots that sprout as bad as the areas that still have a few trees dropping seeds, but I'm really not sure, but at least I'll hopefully kill off one source, the trees/seeds.. I'm dealing with tons of sprouts now, so I'd at least rather deal with sprouts without hundreds of trees dropping more seeds every year. There seems to be Pros/Cons on dozing, mulching, chemical only, excavator, root raking ect ect. I'm hoping we are taking a cost effective approach. Time will tell. I do know I'll have to stay on top of it.
Let us know how it goes.
I know you are in a hurry, so that is your only way. If you have a few years, killing the trees first is the best way. Then there are very few/no sprouts. Your local ag extension agent should be able to give advise about what chemicals/best timing for good results.
I had Reuben Frazier come out with his Cat/Fecon mulcher and he brought a Virnig grapple for me to use on my Deere 333E. Meant to take some pics/video, just didn't have time. My camera caught the Cat here though. I ended up with about 12 piles to burn. I tried burning one and could get it to burn in one spot well, just couldn't get the whole pile to catch. I'll let them dry a few months. In all I think we probably took out about 300 trees in 2 1/2 days. I spent 1/2 a day spraying stumps, shoots and the main areas afterwards, but plan on spraying again in the spring with Remedy/Diesel (in the 4-5 acres where the trees were pretty heavy) and Grazon (all 100 acres). The bottom 3'-4' of every tree was mulched and taken to about ground level. I didn't have time to spray as we went, as you had to kick a lot of mulch around to even find where the stumps were. I don't think my mowers/equipment will catch any of them, unless the ground shrinks a lot, and hopefully they will start rotting away soon. I would have liked to kill them first, but I've had issues with brittle limbs/thorns breaking off everywhere doing that in the past, and it's not easy spraying all around the trees, getting them all in the clusters without taking a lot of thorns. I can grab them and pile them up after he cut them down without spreading/losing too many thorns, although I still have some clean-up work to do, and will have my share of tire plugging to do. I have had pretty good luck in the past getting rid of shoots with mowing after removing the sources, it's areas with trees still producing seeds that seem to cause me the biggest problems. Time will tell, hopefully this will work well. Most of the trees were in clusters and if need be, I can cut these areas, skip haying them, and chemically kill everything in those areas and get a dozer to root rake if necessary until they stop growing. It would have been much more difficult/expensive/time consuming to get rid of roots, and impossible to really get rid of them all. I do know the place looks so much better with those evil trees gone. If there are trees in hell, I'm sure the Honey Locust are present. Thanks Reuban!
That's awesome everything worked out so good.
Just as a FYI for anyone who gets stabbed with a locust thorn. It has to come out! It won't heal if any part remains in your flesh. And the tips of these thorns like to break off when you pull it out. The thorn itself is poisonous to eat. I don't know if the poison from the thorn simply prevents healing and the wound later gets infected, or if there is something on the thorn that starts the infection itself.
Dammit man I was looking forward to a big bowl of locust thorns. Since they poisonous guess I ain’t eating any of them hehe
My kids like to run around bare foot and we have a few, so this is good to know!
We have been having a bunch of locusts show up here in sw Ga. not sure what speciesbut they grow quick and have huge thorns. Thinking black locust but I may have made that up lol. Also have a bunch in west Tn where we have property as well.
Rays a great guy and pretty handy on repairs to!! He definitely had some mean thorns to remove and that guys an animal on his Deere. I thought a couple times I might end up in the burn pile myself but I’ll give him credit, he didnt mess around and flat took care of business. He absolutely has a beautiful place as to!!!
Have both Honey and Black Locust here, Blacks will have a few odd trunk thorns but not so bad, can even cut them with a saw if can bear the pain of replacing chains as are similar to Osage Orange/Hedge for hardness. Renter uses a pasture clear mix of Crossbow, 2-4-D and Tordon to kill off sprouts as ANY root remaining in ground will resprout even without the stumps. What have seen using this mix is the root sprouts up to 3' tall get a full spray they die, being as on a parent tree root the tree gets sick, IF hit enough sprouts the entire tree dies. Only way excavation services attack them here is LARGE Excavator take them down build large brush pile and burn until gone where they were at. Dozer with Root rake after a few weeks to months to aid in leveling soil from stumps removals and kills off 99% of sapling returns. Expensive but manageable over time recovering pasture. Pasture Clear is the commercial line of Herbicide that will clean these out.
I’m using a Cat-310 & Westtech CL260 Tree shear on locust and it works great for up to about 12” diameter. Snip off the top, snip the bottom, stack & burn. I’ve got about all the small ones whacked, but the next phase is 12” to 24” trunks. That will take a 25-30ton excavator and a C550 Shear. A big investment…
Get a saw on a skid steer. Mine will cut 16" deep, have felled 48" cottonwoods. Will cut flush to the ground. If desired you can rotate it 90 degrees and grind out the stump. Has sprayer tank, easy to treat stumps immediately.
Only way to short term defeat them is catch before seed pods evolve, remove and burn. Then the outside the property trees that still make pods will slowly migrate back in.
Shearing them off will not kill them. They will sprout from the roots. Spraying the stumps afterward may help. but they will still come back. Regular mowing, like 3 or 4 times/year, will help keep the new growth at bay, and eventually it should die out. When I say eventually, I mean something like 10 or 15 years.
Cut in the winter with good dose of remedy and diesel fuel and they wont resprout come spring, leastwise around here. But the price of remedy can make for an expensive date.
That did not work for us down in Texas. We also tried another product mixed with diesel, I think it was called "Sahara". That was not effective either. I think if there was a nuclear attack, the first two plants to regrow would be Locust and Mesquite.
Add mimosa trees and kudzu. The only way one can kill a mimosa tree is dig up the entire stump. If you dig up Kudzu it's the gift that keeps on giving!
I Have had excellent results with Tordon RTU. Cut a couple slashes in the trunk with a hatchet and apply it with a spray bottle. There are some really good videos on YouTube about it. Or, drill 4or5 3/4“ holes around the trunk about 6” deep and filled them with Tordon, it will kill it and the roots. Another herbicide I have used is Imazapyr 4 SL. After cutting tees flush with the ground I use a spray bottle to apply it to the stump. It will kill it and the roots. It doesn’t need much. Adding diesel fuel is not something I would do to any herbicide. Besides diluting the concentrated product it may alter the chemical formula of it and make it less effective. IMHO of course.
Good to know that works. I don't think we could have taken the time to do that on our projects. This was areas before we got into the bigger trees. My guess was 75% Mesquite, 10% Honey Locust, and the balance was a little of everything else.
That just need a Full Out Fire, burn it to the ground then hang a ripper to the soil and flip up the root stocks, Next Burn pile!!! Or Paraquat.
I've been spraying cut Locust stumps with diesel fuel + 7% Crossbow. Or you can ring the base of a tree with a chain saw and treat. Seem to get them every time...
Everything we did was inside the city limits. No burning allowed, even with a state permit, it would have been impossible to do a burn trench and meet all their requirements.
Been dealing with 58 acres riddled with honey and black locust for years. They have a shallow root system which means they push over easy, but all the roots are connected under ground, that's why they always pop back up next to an old stump. Best bet is to push them out as high up on the tree as possible with an excavator so you rip the stump and root ball out. Felling or mulching leaves the stump and you just have a new forest waiting to happen. On a side note, they make amazing firewood but that probably ain't much use in texas.
Pictures are worth a thousand words. We can now see what you are dealing with. Too bad Tordon RTU is $130.00 a gallon.
These are all projects we did for the same landowner a few years ago. I have retired now. I have other photos that show how bad the Honey LOcust was on some other properties. However, I can not find them right now. I think photo albums were better than computer files.
The label is the law. Mixing with diesel fuel is on the label. I use remedy because it mixes with diesel fuel, no problems with freezing in the winter.
There are generic alternatives to the branded Tordon RTU at much less cost. When treating a cut stump of size, there is no need to treat the entire stump. The sapwood around the outside is what needs to be treated. Treating quickly after cutting is also important, most labels say 15 minutes.
I have a little experience killing trees with tordon. The quicker you apply it the better, I'm talking within seconds. When stem injecting into axe cuts, best is cut with axe, inject. Cut, inject, repeat your way around the tree. The longer you leave it the less the uptake of the poison by the tree. Well, in Australia at least. I can't see any reason trees would react any differently around the world, but ?????
Shear them off and dig out the stumps, or spray the freshly cut stump with Crossbow & diesel fuel mixed to instructions on the label. Works well on <12" diameter trunks.
I've been researching Locust trees and learned that all the University Foresters agree in that you need to treat a cut Locust Stump within an hour of cutting it or it will go into over-drive and shoot our suckers from all the roots! They say the best way is to kill the Tree by girdling, hack & squirt, or drill & fill, then remove the tree after it's dead.