I am trying to rebuild the leaking dipper cyl. on my BIL's 580SK.I have the rod out and have the rod pined back in boom to hold it.I had to go to Sears to get a 3/4" drive X 2 1/4" socket to loosely fit bolt head (must be metric) we put a 3' cheater on Craftsman ratchet and it did not budge.BIL wants to heat rod to try to loosen bolt.Is this a no no?If not what do you reccemend?
Heat if you decide to. Shouldn't be necessary. Make sure you support the rod well close to the end and get a longer pipe as these can be very tight. A six foot pipe maybe. I've broken sockets doing this - may have to go 1" drive. Somewhere on the site is a picture of a wrench a guy made to do this.
Heat the bolt not the rod. Heat the end of the boltn let it sey for minute to let the heat to transfer threw the bolt to threads and melt the locktite. It still will take a cheater pipe. I have a 3/4 drive inpack that realy helps.
I just got my bucket tilt hydraulic cylinder off this morning to change the seals on JD310D. I used 3/4 drive with 6' cheater bar. The seals should be here tomorrow. Mathman
I agree with rhinos trannys, I wouldn't heat the rod. The proper installation of that bolt should have a small amount of LocTite on the threads, but I have taken some apart that the previous wrencher got a little happy with the stuff. Chances are, though, your just still not getting enough leverage on it, that bolt should be tight. I've had to use an 8 ft cheater pipe being pressed down with a Bobcat on one once before. Be sure and do what was suggested earlier and support rod on a sturdy wood block at the piston so you don't bend the rod.
You can heat that rod or nut all you want but it is still going to be rocket tight. A 10' cheater might get it or you could find a local hyd cyliner shop to use a power wrench to loosen the nut. Most cylinders that use a nut require extremely high torques...1500 and higher. if you have to do it yourself, find a friend that has a 4 to 1 multiplier and save yourself the aggravation of a 10' cheater. The hyd shop option will cost you a little out of pocket but will save trying to use a backhoe to push down on your ratchet!
Glad to see im not the only one who had to use another machine. We repacked a cylinder on our komatsu last year and couldnt get the nut off with an 8 ft pipe and 3 of us bouncing on it. so we got the 410d backhoe and gently put pressure on the end of the 8ft pipe. once it snaps free the pipe is no longer needed. just be careful guys
That reminds me of a time i was using a jackall to lift a tractor. I was young at the time, needless to say, so i was standing on the jack handle and bouncing. I don't need to tell you what happened next. There's something you don't do twice.
haha well we had it just above waist height and used our arms fully extended standing on the sides of the pipe. groin injuries are something i try to avoid.
Heat the bolt. I used a little plumber torch. Doesn't take much to melt the loctite. 6ft pipe and hit the pipe with a 4lb. hammer. The shock of the hammer helps quite a bit. Put a towel or gloves on the holder of the pipe as the shock from the hammer hurts the wrist some.
I usually use a 3/4 or 1 inch drive, Ingersoll Rand, impact wrench. Heating the nuts, will cause them to expand, or "swell", but you have to be carefull... by using too much, heat can transfer to the rod threads and cause damaged threads on both, the nuts and rods. This method... will also cause them to "swell". OCR...
Thats how I do it!!
With the tilt cylinder off, I have noticed that the holes in the bushings don't line up with the grease fitting holes. Is it advisable to press them out and realign the bushings or should I pay the $64 each for new bushings? JD 310d. My apologies for posting here, I can't start a new post yet.
Welcome to the forum mathman. :usa Once you have made 3 posts to any thread (except TGIF) you'll become a Junior Member after a short period of time and be able to start your own thread.
That's ok mathman these guys have given me some good ideas but i have not had time to try any of them yet.
torque multiplyer works awsome heat if necessary you can take the temper out of the rod if you get to over bearing with the heat have had to do it before. A 3/4 drive impact works good also. there can be like tqscott said upwards of 1500 ft lbs of torque on them. so yeah a big cheater bar machine impact torque multiplyer. 3 big guys what ever to get the job done
mathman. i think you may find that your bushings are right. i believe they are grooved around the outside where you can't see it.go to the online partsbook and look at them.
My komatsu 220 was torqued at 35,000 ft lbs, no lie had to take to shop they had a setup to do it, set in concrete 10 feet deep. Check the manual some smaller cyls are only 600 ft lbs
We once did a 345 boom cylinder by walking our 330 on the end of the rod and using the ripper on the d8l to turn a custom made wrench to start the nut worked pretty well and fast
I took mine down to a heavy truck repair shop, they spun it right off in 5 seconds, no charge.
Sounds like a great job for my Swench,but Alabama is a mite far.
my way sounds funny but works...I put a small pipe in the rear hitch end of my pickup. I then put the eyelet end of the rod in the pipe. I then rest it on a set of cribbed blocks to get the correct height. Then I have the nut supported to a workable height. Then I get a 1" ratchet and put a 10' bar on it. Never failed me yet.
A 10' bar on a ratchet, even a 1" one ..... FFS have you no shame ..? Pipe on a breaker bar maybe but never ever on a ratchet please. All that weight is sitting on a tiny pawl inside the ratchet mechanism. Only needs a bit too much weight to break the mechanism and your ratchet never works again. Ratchets (even big ones) are not designed to pull any more weight than you can apply to the ratchet handle itself.
Are there any statistics on injuries sustained while doing this procedure, sitting at my computer all sorts of images are going through my mind as to how to explain them to a spouse or even the hospitals staff as to how you came to being there for treatment, I'm thinking maybe some larger tools might be in order to do the job somewhat safer, hydraulic torque wrench, torque multiplier, something..........anything. I'll have to agree with Nige about the ratchet wrench too, that could really hurt if it were to strip the gears out in mid pull, I"ve broken countless breaker bars over the years and I'm pretty leary about using even those anymore, to add the pipe extension to apply that kind of torque, I'll pass on that one too. I like fast's idea of getting someone else to do it for basically nothing or very little, But thats just my observation.
I recall once loosening (& later tightening again) the piston retaining nut on a 994 Tilt Cylinder using a home-made wrench about 600mm long gas-cut out of a piece of 35mm thick plate. The rod assembly was sat on hardwood cribbing with a 994 bucket holding down the eye end. Then I used the bucket of a 345B on the end of the wrench. Came off a treat ........... Then there was the time I used the bucket of a 992C as a hammer to knock the walk shaft into the square hole in the walking cam of a B-E 1260 dragline, but that's another story ............ Taking the piece to a workshop with the PROPER tooling to do the job is always the best method. However there are times when you don't have the proper tooling, and neither does anyone else within a convenient driving distance. That's when ingenuity comes into it, but IMHO ingenuity should not be confused with stupidity.
minimum 4:1 torque multiplier & a 600ft/lb torque wrench. The main thing is to have a good strong anchor point.
The only things I'd change from that setup is to move the cribbing a bit closer to the piston for a bit better support, and maybe also figure a way of using a large bolt or some all-thread at the eye end so that the rod could be securely bolted to the anchor point. Other than that, have at 'er ........
This is an interesting problem that brought my cylinder rebuilding to a halt. Just checking the service manual shows the Dipper cylinder 1½" UNF cap bolt, to be tightened to 2443 to 2841 pound-feet (3310 to 3850 Nm). I pinned the piston rod back to the boom and sat the other end on a 'v block'. Realising I needed a 57MM socket, I bought one at a local hardware and welded it onto the end of a spanner used to tighten the idler spindles on the D750, when we owned it. Even swinging on this 6' bar did nothing so I attached the wheel tractor blade and it came undone really easily. After a clean up and rebuild I didn't really have any way to measure the torque but, did lift the tractor a bit when tightening it. Interesting note is that the hydraulic pressure is so extreme, oil penetrates the threads in all these cylinders' and maybe causes a hydraulic lock in itself, aside from the Loctite in there!
I love backseat mechanics. Seems I would never be able to get anything done if I drove back to the shop to do things the proper way. I forgot to mention that I discovered my way after my 1 3/4" spline gun would not budge the nut at 200 psi. I can attest that the gun is strong since it shattered a socket on a budd wheel nut and it cut my eyebrow through the goggles I had on. FYI, when you use a ratchet you push down with your hand open. worst thing you can do is roll your wrist.
Interesting discussion men. I can add that a big hydraulic press is good for anchoring the rod. Just put the eye under the press and put lots of pressure on it to hold it. As someone said, the cribbing has to be under the rod nice and close to the piston. If you don't have a press on the day the tow pin works well too. Here's a trick that I haven't seen mentioned yet. I used a 1" socket and tee bar with the bar half way through (no pipe or cheater bar). Then I positioned my Mustang 940 with the bucket horizontal and chained it to the tee bar. Crowd the bucket back being careful to keep the spanner properly centered to the nut and you have an instant hydraulic spanner! Hope this helps someone in the future.