Hello all, I am a new guy on the forums and in the Crane business ..Being in one of tough places in Africa ,I decided to go for old school Crane with the advise of a local crane operator. I bought tms475 from canada on 3000hrs,4600miles.it looks good for its age1975,used on the ship yard since day one. Crane in transit. right now ,I took the sellers word that the crane is in good running. Condition and took a gamble of some sort. What's your take on a tms 475 (i want to use. it inConstruction,plant. ,mines,etc) how is this machine for someone new to the trade.? Evans
Those old groves have probably made more people money then any other brand or piece of equipment. Pretty simple cranes really. Can't really tear them up due to overloading because they don't really have the stability to bend the boom. Probably more groves laid over then any other as well. On the tms models the boom is really to heavy for the outrigger spread. They will absolutely do what the load chart says and then some. They really shine on short radius picks. They're to boom heavy to have a good long radius chart. If it's been maintained it'll run forever. I know of a tms200 with 30,000hrs and we have one with 20k and a tms300 with 18k and I never hesitate to take either one anywhere anytime.
Those old school machines, also, are easy to understand and simple to fix. I am working on my RT-60S crane and it is very nice to see how simple it really is.
Never bought anything sight unseen unless I could afford the disappointment if it was not as presented . That being said it's hard to go wrong with the Big G Crane . Very reliable , easy to work on , and good parts support . Good luck with it Evans !
Welcome to HEF Evans. :drinkup What made me chuckle was "TMS475 for a beginner", that's a hellua rig for a beginner. As has been stated, the TMS475 has a strong boom, more likely to tip one than to overload the boom so even if you're pushing the load chart it's a "working by the seat of the pants" rig, so pay attention to your load chart and when your on the max end of it proceed carefully.
Thanks very much guys,you have made me stronger and lookin forward to Grove TMS 475.this crane has an inspection certificate up to 2014 when it was up for sale.hopefully its still in sound condition. thanks once again,i will be back with update once landed. Evans
Which port is it coming in through, Durban..? It'll take a while to get to Harry's from there.
Nige do you think its not possible to drive tms475 for a thousand miles to a job site or to pick it up and drive it a 1000 miles?
Why not..? We used to do that with motor scrapers in Africa, I don't see whay a crane would be any different.
Does it have the cummins or Detroit engine. If it has the Detroit I'd cry myself to sleep thinking about driving it a 1000 miles. Actually it wouldn't bother me to much. Those old cranes actually don't ride half bad. Top speed is probably 53 mph. Probably less if it has the Detroit.
Top speed in Africa would be limited much more by road condition than by engine performance. TBH I would say that maybe 35mph would be a top speed on the African roads I've had experience of.
It has a cummins ,speedometer saying max 80mph,13spd ,i will try to do 40-50mph .roads are not so good in some areas though.
Driving it with a Detroit would be like a second childhood for me. Might pay to have extra fuel filters along at any rate. Even if you can get good fuel there may be condensation in the tanks from setting.
Hello everyone,i am pleased to be back on the forum with good news that my TMS475LP has finally landed in my workshop here in Africa. :drinkup trying to attach a pics. anywhere,it was not a smooth voyage to Africa,it was damaged in transit .a hole was cut on the hydraulic mainfold and lost all hydraulic oil i also suspect ,i was driven with pto on when loaded and offloaded at ports. we put new oil and tested functions,booms are coming out ,wire rope and swirl are working.but outriggers ,cylinders and weights not responding ,please any help will do.
Driving it around a shop or yard with the hyd pump on isn't gonna hurt anything. I assume you're saying the outriggers aren't working. If nothing at all is happening it's almost gotta be the selector valve. The selector cable is the first valve in the outrigger circuit. It sends hyd pressure to the individual selector valves. If the crane bogs down a little when you hit the switch for the selector valve then it's obviously getting pressure. That valve is powered by the extend/retract switch on your outrigger controls. Make sure you have power coming to and from that switch. The selector valve is mounted right in front of the front outriggers on the 475. It's electric over hydraulic.
Thanks,well noted ,yes outriggers,cylinders and counterweights not working,local guy came to check oil pressure,did not have gauge at hand,so he took off a plug from one of oil pipes and used his finger to block oil under pressure seccessfully. does that mean low pressure.
I don't know but I sure wouldn't recommend blocking oil pressure with my finger. The outriggers work off the same hyd pump as the 3rd boom section. If the 3rd boom section runs in and out fine it's not a pressure problem. Also those are open center valves. There's not much pressure until you pull the valve. Also be careful messing with the pressures on that crane. Doesn't take much to explode the hyd pump if the relief valve is set to high.
If you look at rubber hydraulic hoses when your friend operates valves that run those hoses, you will see the hoses flex a little. This might be an easy to way see if the hydraulics is operational.
well received, so pumps not chief suspect here,we did not get to the third boom when we tested,only second boom. tomorrow will start with outriggers auto and connect all wires in upper cab. all gauges working but not starting from the upper . what about cylinders not responding.
When you say cylinders not working I'm assuming your talking about the outriggers. The selector valve is the first piece in the outrigger circuit. It is a normally open valve between the hyd pump and the valve bank that controls the 3rd boom extend and retract, boom boost, and maybe aux hoist. When you flip the extend/retract switch it diverts oil to the outrigger circuit. When this happens everything in the outrigger circuit is pressurized. You determine which outrigger moves by pressing the button for each outrigger. This opens the return line for that specific outrigger to the tank. That's a basic summary of how the outriggers work on those old girls. With all that being said, it not starting from the upper may be a clue. The outrigger circuit will not have power unless the key in the upper is turned on. If the key switch is bad or you don't have power to the upper key switch your not gonna have any outriggers. If your sitting in the seat there is a metal plate right beside your right foot. Directly below the outrigger control panel. Behind that plate are all your fuses and relays. Hopefully this helps.
Thanks,well received ,this will help a lot.The electrician will be coming to check wiring system , lucky we have wiring diagram in the manual book. when i said cylinders not working i was meant to say two hydraulic cylinders that move boom up and down are not responding.hopefully they will do with the electrical wiring in place.
The boom cylinders not moving would concern me a little. Those should have nothing at all to do with anything electrical. When you say they moved it around with the pto on was it empty on hydraulic oil when they did this. It won't hurt anything to move it with the pump engaged unless the pump is running dry. If they ran pump without any oil in it that's no good. Doesn't take long to burn a pump that way. I'd be looking for someone to cover that one. Start with the simple stuff though. The boom hoist is controlled by a 4 section valve bank. I think boom up/down 2nd section extend/retract and two other functions pull from the same pump section. If all the functions on that valve bank work other then the boom up and down, it's not the pump. If nothing on that valve bank works it's pump or swivel.
hello,still doing electrical wiring, when we put the pto on we noticed a leak on one of the pump distribution line where it mount on the pump,dropping oil on the floor.suspecting o ring.can that be one of the causes? To replace O ring ,do i have to drain all the oil. we have located selector valve and all sol valves when crane arrived it had about 50-60 liters in the hydro oil tank,does that mean anything?
The o-ring leaking on the front top of the pumps isn't unusual, and won't cause the functions not to work. (mine leaked there too when I first got it). The o-rings get dry/hard after time. I think a little tightening on the flanges stopped my leak. I think you can change them without draining the tank, but I think that may be where your real issues are. If there was only 50 liters in the hydraulic tank when it came on the trailer, that's only 10 gallons. That's probably not enough oil for the pickup on the pumps (I think mine feed 4-5" up on the side). With that manifold line broken, if they engaged the pumps they ran them dry, probably taking out one of your two pumps (possibly just a sector, but if it got that hot it probably cooked the pump. The pumps are probably available from Grove, but possibly very expensive from them. Prices from Grove are all over, a cylinder seal kit is $200, but a rotation indicator for the winch is $2000. Here in the states I would check with my hydraulic shop first, to rebuild/ repair, but I don't have a clue what your availability is in Africa. I don't think the manual gives a tear down of the pumps, but one old service manual of mine has about everything else-engine, trans, rears, crane. If you have troubles with needing part #'s post up what your looking for, some of the tms 475 stuff is identical to the 300's Good news though- thats a great crane- and if all that's wrong with it is a pump, that's not the end of the world. My tms 300 (just smaller than yours) always amazes me what it will do. It will do everything a new crane will, and is simpler to work on, and is better built also. good luck
Those pumps are about 2k a piece from grove. They're both two section pumps. You can get them aftermarket for 1200. Surprisingly cheap I always thought. Also almost every part in those pumps is available separately. It's usually cheaper to just buy the pump then try to have it rebuilt.
Hello gentlemen,we did electrical check ups on the crane, now engine starting from both cabs .The outriggers are now working[extending and retracting] except one rear left which did not respond. the boom cylinders still not responding at the moment. i have noticed that nothing on the crane is responding on idling only when reeving ,is that normal.
That makes it sound like you have a pump problem. If only one function was weak I'd say turn the relief valve up. But if nothing responds at idle I'd expect to buy some pumps.
Good day,I have decided to look for new pumps . If anyone knows where I can get aftermarket pumps for a start.please send through details.its unfortunate I have to pump out money before its on the job site.
Do you have the parts manual?
Two section pump.part no 7-722-000054. Hope this will help
TRY 7- 632000030 PUMP part no. hope this will do
Local guy has a 475. He said he got his pump from http://www.pwrtrain.com . That crane should have 2 2-section pumps. Surely they don't have the same part number. Or are you just replacing one. Have you tried grove directly.
thanks a lot,i will get in touch with them .i have to replace both pumps to be sure.i was quoted $2200 each with grove.
Just being nosy here. What kind of timeframe are you looking at from grove. As far as shipping.
Wanted pumps like yesterday but 2 -3 weeks wait still OK,I will check with DHL.
Knep the link you gave me keep blocking me,can't get through, thanks anyway.
Greetings, i have managed to inspect pumps on this crane and found one pump cooked up too bad. surprise was the way gears were chipped or damaged as if something went between gears or was it because they went into each others ways when pump collapsed .it was not turning when we took it off.
hello to you all, i have managed to replace damanged pump with a new one. I put new hyd oil nearly 580L in total. everything seems to be working well except the second boom which is only coming out but not retracting .at first it was not doing both then i topped up oil to the top of the tank gauge. it started working coming out but no going back. please help
The proper way to check hyd oil level is with all outriggers up, beams retracted, boom in the rest, with all sections retracted. Tank level should then be in the middle of the sight glass. If you have no oil in the retract lines, or the in the other side of the cylinder, it may take the oil a little time to get it filled enough to start retracting, and oil must get to the check valve to open it up. The second sections oil travels from the valve, through all the hose in the hose reel located under the rear of the boom, then to the section. It's a pretty simple system. Follow the lines from the control valve onward. All that system has to be full of oil before it works, and you've had oil level issues. Also that grove will be boom heavy. If it hasn't seen a lot of maintainence , I wouldn't scope it out flat and try to retract it. Boom it up over at least 60deg. then try to retract it. If the boom is really dry on the bottom of the sections, it won't want to retract. You can look at it this way. To move the boom section, you need the oil to flow there. Are you getting oil flow to the retract of the second section? Crack lines or feel/ observe for movement in them (oil will make the hoses jump). If no oil, figure out why. If you are getting oil, either the section itself is giving you too much resistance, or you aren't getting enough pressure. I don't think that's likely- there's enough pressure there to extend it. Did you cavitate the new pump? (running with no oil, low oil in the tank will cavitate/ heat up the pumps, ruining them. Don't do that.) I don't think you've cooked the new pump. The oil pressure that is extending the boom, is the same oil and pressure you use to retract. All you do is throw the lever the other way. Either you haven't held the lever long enough, to purge the air from the hose and cylinder in the retract side of the cylinder, or your boom is just binding up. Boom it up and give it a little time to fill with oil (holding in the retract lever). If you see the boom start to retract, then stop, you probably have oil there, and something else is stopping it. You will need to throttle up to retract. You have to provide enough pressure to release the holding valve, and overcome the drag of the boom. It's possible your damaged pump has sent steel through the system, and a piece lodged in that holding valve, locking it so it won't release the oil from the bottom of the cylinder, but I doubt it. I think you've just not got the air out, because you said you had no movement of the second section, then added oil and now have extend, but no retract. Also, don't extend that boom all the way out and flat over the side, only do one section at a time for greasing, it's a little boom heavy to put it all out over the side flat. Good luck.
The outer live boom section runs off the same pump section as the outriggers. If your outriggers work well and lift the crane up fine then you can assume that pump and your main relief at the outriggers are working. Running the boom in takes more hyd pressure then running it out under no load. Check your pressure right at the valve bank. Not that uncommon on those old girls to have to have the boom dang near straight up to retract that boom section.
I spent most of the day going through all your helpful suggestions and try to figure out how to clear air lock in the 2nd section of the boom,in the process I noticed that the 2nd sections boom retracts using lever outside cab ,the lever on the side of the crane which also used to retract count weights. Not sure if that's how it should work from outside or its an alternative way if lever in the cab fails. The unit is now performing well all around .need to pick a load now. Thanks once again for all your helpful Suggestions and advice. I had to go home early today a happy man.
It should work from the lever in the cab. The lever outside should only extend and retract the 1st telescoping section (inner mid). You use a cable attached to a eye at the back of that boom section, run through a pulley to the top of the counterweight. Telescope the boom section to pick up the weight, retract the arms that hold the weight up, then retract the boom to set the weight on the deck behind the engine on the big pads there. Make sure you have enough cable (on the winch) let out not to two block the crane when extending. That's why there's a control there for extending that section. So just so I'm clear. The section closer to the tip (typically called the outer mid) is the one with problems, or is it the section closer to the base section (typically called the inner mid)? The section closer to the base section should be the section that moves by the lever behind the cab, not the outer/ tip section. I bet you were glad to see both sections move. Congrats.
Good day, i have realized that I am still very junior ,hope I will be able to help someone one day. I did not realize that LIFTING EQUIPMENT eg chain and wire rope slings ,D shackles etc are well part of the Game. please advise on the chain sizes I can start with, on this 50ton G. since I want to use it for all sorts ,including containers, mine and industry also construction. i don't know which size to start with. I am shopping around for a 4 legged 26mm X 7m ADJUSTABLE chain slings .is it where I can start to build up from.
I keep no chains with me in the cranes. I find with chains, in order to get any kind of capacity, they are too heavy to move around, in and out of the storage boxes. I can handle 2-12' 3/4" cables pretty easily by hand, try carrying 24' of 3/4" chain around (they are the same capacity). I have chains, they just stay at the shop. Rigging in my tms 300 in the crane all the time: Listed as number of them, diameter, then length, type and capacity in (). Cables: 4-3/4"dia. cables 16' long, eye on one end, latching hook on other end (10k). 4-3/4"dia. x12' cables, eyes on both ends(10k). 4-5/8"dia. x 12' cables (7k), Eye on one end, hooks with latches on the other end. 4-1/2"dia.x 8' cables (5k), eye to eye. 4-1/4"dia. x2' cable eye to eye (1k) Nylon's: 4-16'x3" wide nylon eye to eye 3plys (13k). 6-16' 3" nylon eye to eye 2plys (7k). 4-8' green endless round slings (5k), 2-12' red endless round slings (16k). Shackles: 1-25ton (1 3/4"pin dia.), 2-17t (1 1/2"), 4-12t (1 1/4"), 8-10t (1"),4-6t (7/8"), 4-5t (3/4"), 4-2t (1/2"), shackle can vary by manufacturer in capacity with the same pin size. My 8-10t shackles are actually 1"pin shackles, a columbus mckinnon will be rated for 10t, a crosby will be 8 1/2t. I just like 4 of each size. I've put the capacity of my rigging in () behind each. That's a eye to eye straight pull capacity in thousands of pounds, and they are approximate off the top of my head, not the exact figure. Example the 3/4" cables are good for actually 11,200 lbs in a straight line pull, basketing the cable doubles capacity. On my cables I prefer to have individual cables, rather than 2 or 4 cables on a bridle. It makes it easier to mix and match on spreader bars and such if you don't have them tied together. Plus forget about rolling up a 3/4" x16' 4-way bridle with hooks and putting it in your storage box (if you can do that, I won't argue with you about anything). I do have my 3/4" and 5/8"cables made with a 2' long eye on one end, rather than the standard 1' eye. It makes it much easier to put on a 50ton capacity hook block with the bigger eyes. Nothing in the crane is bigger than 3/4" cables. 4-3/4" cables gives me 40,000lbs of rigging capacity, that's about all I'm going to pick with that crane anyways, plus that's about as big as you can roll up and put in the boxes. All my larger rigging stays at the shop, I usually know if I'm going to need bigger, and then either put it in the pickup or tie it to the deck of the crane. Most used extra rigging at the shop: 4-3/4" x 20' long eye to eye cables. 4- 4" x 20' 2plys (10k), 4 -12' blue endless round slings (20k cap) 4-16' blue endless round slings (20k), 4- 1" x 6" eye to eye cables (16k). My 70 ton capacity crane has a pickup and gooseneck trailer that goes with it, so it has a few 7/8" and 1" cables and some blue roundups for more capacity. Also more 1 1/4" and 1 3/8" shackles. My 25 ton cranes don't have the 3/4" cables, or the 3ply nylons, or red roundups. Endless round slings, and flat nylons are great capacity for what they weigh, but don't take abuse (wrapping sharp steel, or even just past edges). Once they've got a cut or fray, they're junk. Cables last forever (or at least a long time). Also in each crane is a 15'and 50' tag rope. But its usually not in the crane, its on my last job where I left it lay.
Hi Evens, As you are new at this crane game remember that your headache ball or multipart block whichever is on the crane and all rigging and even cable weight has to be figured in as part of your load. It's usually not critical but it can be very important if picking near capacity. With two drums and both lines hanging you need to figure the weight of both. A pocketbook rigging manual usually available free at any good rigging supply house will prove valuable to you for safe rigging.
evans- I just looked again at the chain sling you want to buy. Did the conversion and are you sure you want a 1"link 4 legged chain 22' long. That's going to be one heavy rig. That chain is roughly 10lbs per foot, 88foot, total is 880lbs. plus the hooks and bridle and your looking at probably around +1,000lbs of rigging , in one sling. 1 1/2" cable slings get you the same capacity at only 4 lbs/ft. makes for 350lbs or so. Black endless roundslings would be 2.5lbs/ft. That's chart your giving up in rigging, with no change in capacity. That and I wouldn't want to deal with that heavy $#% chain. Also to be realistic. That chain sling on four legs is good for 100,000lbs. I realize you have a 50ton crane, but your never going to pick up 50 tons with it. Something that actually weighs 50 ton, you can't get close enough to pick up. Probably the most your going to pick up will be 50,000lbs. A more typical heavy pic would be 30-40,000lbs. I've had 60,000 once on my 35ton, and I could be right on top of it, and probably wouldn't do it again (maybe :cool2). I was within chart, it was just a big load. I've only ever had 70,000 once on my 70 ton crane, also right on top of it. I think your overestimating what your going to be able to pick up. A 100,000lb pick with only 50 ton size cranes, means you usually have 2-50 ton cranes, and even that would be pushing it.
I have just done my first job ever :beerchug with lady G. she performed well, picked a dozer with that easy , on idling or just near idling. . i have changed one piece of pressure pipe that goes on the swirl from under, it give in and spill oil. not very sure on the weight of the dozer. some of the pics
Great Job- its all easy from here on out!:notworthy If you picked it up and set it down, and nobody got hurt, that's a great first pick. Good rule of thumb for if you don't know the weight- Looks like you've got 4 parts of line in you're block. Those winches have about 10,000 lbs per line, of line pull (rated for 13-16,000, but they do 10,000). So you had less than 40,000lbs. If you set up for a pick, and know you're only good for 20,000lbs at that particular radius, only put in 2 parts of line. When you run out of line pull (winch), stop lifting. It's hard to tell in those old grove's when you're close to capacity at short radius. They are so overbuilt that its hard to feel the weight, without a lot of seat time. If you put in eight parts of line, it will pick until things get ugly. (One other thing, chart is based on both boom sections telescoped evenly, don't want to be critical, but I'm a hard @$$, sorry, everything else looks good!).
Looks good man. Did you put a fresh coat of paint on the old girl. It's a sharp looking rig.
new coat of paint was the only favour I comfortably extended to the old lady, the rest is new hunting ground for me. crane operator - thanks for the tips ,basically are you saying to pick less than 10 000 lbs use single line ,when you run out of line on winch ,that's max 20 000 lbs use 2 lines when ran out of line ,stop 30 and 40 to use 3&4 lines ,out of line ,stop. am I on the right direction. on 10 000lbs will you be able to run out all the line.?
No problem evans. I'll run you through a couple little trial lifts. Situation #1 I'm in a tms 475 and I roll up to xyz quarry. They want to pull the cone crusher- no idea what it weighs. I proceed to set up the crane as close to the crusher as I can. After set up, I take my tape measure, and its 32' over the side of the crane, from the center of the turntable, to the center of the crusher/ pick point. Go now to the chart in the cab. 32' isn't listed as a radius, so you go to the next longer radius- 35'. View attachment TMS475-Load-Chart.pdf Left hand side of chart (over the side) lists radius of 35' as having a capacity of 20,280lbs, with any boom length (thank grove for building stout booms). So you only have 20,280lbs of capacity. Deduct the weight of your block, ball (if running both winches), stowed jib, and rigging. 290lbs for stowed jib, block weighs 800lbs (it should say on it), and your chain sling at 1,000lbs. total is 2090 lbs. 20,280-2090= 18,190lbs. That 18,190 is the maximum you can safely lift. Reeve the block with 2 parts of line, when the winch starts to stall out (10,000lbs per line), you're probably at capacity, if the cone crusher isn't coming up, you better stop. Situation #2. Roll up on site, dozer to unload off semi, no known weight. You back the truck up right behind the back bumper, stretch out your tape measure, 10' from center of turntable to back bumper of the crane, 4' to the dozer tracks, another 5' to the center of the dozer. total 19' Now we'll use the chart on the right (because we're over the rear). no 19' radius listed, so we go to 20' (always go to the lesser capacity). You've shot out a little boom so we go to the 40' boom length, chart says 52,200lbs. We subtract stowed jib (290), block (800), rigging (1000). That's 2090 again. 52,200-2090= 50110lbs. If you have a becket attach point on the block, you could run a 5-part. If you don't you'll need to run a 4-part (40,000) which is actually better in this case (you'll see). The dozer doesn't want to come off the trailer easy with your 4 part. The dozer acts like its coming , but hasn't. Being johnny expert operator, you know the winch will do 10,000 per line easy, but if you throttle up that detroit, (or cummins if you're so blessed), the winch will do 13,000 before stalling completely. 13,000 x 4 = 52,000lbs. Either the dozer comes off there, or you better stop, because you're over. If you have the 5 part, your actually right up to chart (before you know it), and a 6 gives you way more line pull than capacity (could pull 60,000, with only having 50,000 of chart). In having to rev up the crane, you know its between 40 to 50,000 lbs, and now you look like johnny expert operator. Situation # 3 Roll up on site, they've got a piece of pipe over the other side of a storage tank, you need to remove the old pipe, replace with new. You set up, stretch out trusty tape measure, and its 75' over there. 5,770 chart over the rear. Subtract our ball (250lbs) (your only good for 5700- you don't need block), stowed jib (290), rigging (200- you got some small nylons, instead of that huge chain) 5770-250-290-200=5030. Easily within line pull of 10,000. How do you know when you're getting close? Options: #1 tell them you have to know what it weighs- use the new pipe shipping ticket- but that doesn't tell you if the old pipe is heavier-thicker wall- or full of material (and they won't know- they'll just stare at you like they're stupid) #2 Pick until the crane starts to get light. You're in the tipping, not structural portion of the chart (below the bold line), so the crane will get tippy, not break. But-this is bad. Being boomed down that far/flat once it gets light, its too late. If it starts to go, you won't be able to bring it back. Nobody wants the crane laying over. #3 Johnny expert operator. The old grove engineers save you, they've equipped this wonderful crane with 2 speed main winches. Low speed is 10,000 line pull easy, but slow. Winch has a high mode. In high mode, the winch has twice the speed but 1/2 the capacity (5000). Flip the switch to high speed, stay out of the throttle so its not zipping up too fast, and now you're creeping up with your 3-4,000 lbs load, that you know, with no scale, that you can safely lift. Johnny expert operator saves the day- safely. This little option saves you also, when you have your 4 part in, but swing over to where you're only good for 20,000lbs. Switch to high speed on the winch, instead of 40,000, now you're at 20,000 when the winch stalls. Winch stalls= stop. If you get to lifting items where you're below 5,000 in capacity, you're going to have to know the weight. Scales are available for the crane, shipping ticket, stamped weight on the item. When you're at 110' over the side and only good for 1700lbs, if they say it weighs 1700, but they're off by 255lbs (or 2 big workers are leaning on it), you're coming over. 85% chart gives you a big margin when you're good for 40,000lbs. Not so much when you're only good for 1700.
Not a crane operator myself, but that's the best description I've ever for lifting capacity I've ever seen. Thanks for posting. Greyson
well received..... crane operator ,thanks for the notes will go a long way .I need to read them again and again to understand these trail lifts technically. I rushed to respond because I am going for another hunt, I don't want to be the hunted ::crying: .I have been booked for Monday morning at a mine 100miles away. site unseen ,emergency .need to pick a big tank about 100ft[30m] . erect it 70ft {20m**above ground. capacity ..less than 2.5 tons ,said one of them. your trail lifts will apply perfectly ,any more blind spots I should look out for on these big items with less weight.?
There's all kinds of things that can go wrong evans; sorry but that's the truth. Constantly try to minimize your risks, and don't take chances. Do it the best, right, safest way every single time. A carpenter can cut off a board short, and start with a new board. Dig out too much dirt with a backhoe, you throw dirt back in the hole. You have to do it right every single time, or someone gets hurt. Advice: keep loads as low as you can until you have to go up- if you get in trouble with a load 6" off the ground, you can set it down. If you do the same 60' up, you're along for the ride. Always look for a way out- what are you going to do with the load if something goes bad?, don't let people get in impact zones. Setup is the most important thing, don't set up un-level, don't set up on bad ground without wider cribbing. Always set as close as you can- if it means being a pain to other people- so be it, its your crane. Make them move stuff. Move the crane again, make them tear something to pieces to make it lighter, whatever it takes. Don't be afraid to say no. Don't be afraid to say no. Don't be afraid to say no. If something doesn't look right, feel right, seem correct, stop. Fix it. If it looks like a choker might come off, fix it before the lift, don't get 1/2 way into the lift and think "I should have done this". Buy a scale- no more guessing on weights- or relying on other people for a weight, you will know. http://www.cranesmart.com/english/index.html Its $4,000, but it might save your life, or someone elses, and the crane. Cranes don't leave my shop without one. If I had to lift a tank and place it up on a stand in the air, I might do a trial lift with the tank, without going up on the stand first. Find out the radius you have to set the tank at, then pick up the tank, go to that radius in a safe area (or right beside the stand) 6" off the ground. If you can't handle the weight at that radius, it will start to tip and you can set it down (from 6" up), if you just zip the tank up to 60' in the air, and start booming down to set it, and get light, its a long ride over. If you can get to that radius in the safe area 6" off the ground, you can get there on the stand, 60' up. With that grove, set up so you can make your set over the rear. Its more stable, with better chart. Don't make a critical or difficult pick, right over a front corner outrigger, its your least stable point. You're strongest right over a rear corner outrigger, but then you're also exerting max ground pressure on that outrigger (making it more likely to punch through poor soils), its better to be straight over the center in the rear, equalizing the pressure between two pads. If you start lifting something, and its hanging all crooked, set it back down and re rig. Add shackles, remove shackles, adjust chains, whatever. If its lifting straight , it will set down much easier up in the air, and make it easier on the guys your working with. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Steady on the controls, its not a race.
I can't agree with crane op enough on the scale. The sad truth is that most of your customers don't have a clue what something will actually weigh. I can't tell you how many times something has doubled in weight from the time the customer called to when the crane got to the job. And I've had people get all tore up and mad swearing that the scale on the crane isn't working. I can tell you which one I'm believing in that scenario. I firmly believe every taxi crane should be equipped with at least a boom angle sensor and a scale. A2b is mandatory anymore but it wouldn't bother me to not have that. For 3-4K it's worth every penny.
some pics
at a new GOLD plant being established by Rio-zim {rio- tinto]. I noted one thing, smaller cranes stay on a contract longer .if I had a 25 or 30 ton was going to a at the mine longer.
catholic church under construction ,I had to hold the top overnight ,its was good money wise but the next morning we found the boom section leaking, after work I had to top up about 20litres of hyd oil. I am not prepared to start the booms yet.
Looks great evans. On the bigger crane vs smaller crane issue. Remember, you can do little crane work, with a little bigger crane, the reverse isn't true. You're size of crane is maybe a little big for a one man crane company, but if I could only have one crane, the tms 475 isn't a bad choice. Also, great looking pictures of the church job, but.... I wouldn't leave my crane overnight with a load on it like that. There's too much that can go wrong, when your not there.
thanks Crane operator , great ,I thought as much , the next morning the security said he hard noises through out the night from structure and crane. first and last. some of the pics, this morning a truck with oranges fell from a bridge right onto the river bed. it took me 4hrs to retrieve .boom leak was not as much as yesterday.
Glad your keeping the old girl busy. Generally it's not a great idea to leave something with a load overnight. I've never been around a crane that's not gonna creak and settle when left under a load for an extended period of time. For a 1 man crane company a 50t isn't a bad size. Here in the states you would have to haul the cw separately, so you don't see many 1 man crews with a 50t. If you can leave the cw on the crane and just roll with it, the cost of operating it isn't gonna be much if any less then running a smaller crane.
Greetings, one crane company might be the most boring company ,specially when that only crane is hired for a longer period of time and left you seated in office most of the time. my crane has been hired by a gold mine ,not sure for how long ,I never bothered to ask :beatsme maybe fear to frustrate the deal. But what I did was to access the job on the ground and found out that I am their guest for sometime . i have provided an operator and a rigger .the rest mine will provide. SO now I am spending time thinking of buying a second one , sooner. CAN YOU GUYS ADVICE WHICH WAY TO GO ,A BIGGER SIZE, SOME SIZE OR SMALLER SIZE .. economically our countries down here are not very stable .thinks change anytime and new laws anytime.
Sounds like that crane is working out pretty well. Its hard to say what size would work best for you. Do you turn down smaller crane jobs or do you turn down more work due to your crane not being big enough? Do you road your crane with the cw on it or do you haul it separately? If you haul it on the crane that's about as big of a crane as your gonna be able to do that. If a smaller crane is what your thinking about I'd look into a grove tms250. It'll be just like your 475 only smaller. Same controls, same valve setup. Same cabs. Great little cranes.
thanks Kneppture, , yes people are asking, i did some media adverts including flairs ,local paper etc . now most enquiries are for the 50ton with a few asking for a smaller crane with long boom length and at times they just want a lower rate whats your take on tms300/B VS tms250 VS another 475. do you still stand with the tms 250 I don't think it sounds nice to have two 475 . and still on tms 300 and tms 300B are these sisters miles apart in terms of performance or weight .
Never owned a crane just a boom truck for own use. But in my experience with your location and lack of part's availability I would try and find another machine just like you have for parts interchange so when one is down waiting on part's thats when the second one goes down then you can just borrow parts off of one to keep going till all the part's get to you or when you wreck one you will have a parts machine for the other.
Only you know the market there. If you can keep another 475 busy there's certainly an advantage to having two of the same crane. From what you've said I kind of think I'd lean toward and tms250. It's gonna be very very similar to your 475. Same controls, same valves, same overall design. With it being on a 3-axle carrier it's gonna be able to get in and setup a lot of places your 475 won't. In my opinion a tms300 is close to in size to your 475 to have one of each. If you find a tms250 with the jib and stinger it'll give you 126' boom. And that's on a fairly small carrier.
Evans, like others have said, only you can know your market. Here in the us- there is quite a bit of work for smaller cranes, setting trusses, A/c units, hot tubs etc; what I would term residential work, that I do with my 25 ton groves. I would think in your area there would be less of that, and only the mining and industrial customers would have the need for a crane. Meaning less work for smaller cranes. I do most of my industrial/quarry work with my tms 300, or my 70 ton P&H. I have mostly older groves, its a great advantage to the operator, and as a owner to have very similar machines. The tms 300 and 475 are very similar in capacity's and size. The 475 has a wider outrigger span, and extendable counterweight, and 5' more of main, and its heavier. There are way more tms 300's out there, than 475's. The 475's lattice boom main, was a labor intensive boom to build, and grove didn't make very many. The tms 300's were built from 1973, until the early 1990's. Given your location I would stay with the tms grove series, they are a simple design, and very strong. There are always people that want a cheaper price on a crane. If you have the 50 ton and the 35 ton, they may feel they're getting a deal when they have the cheaper crane come, but in reality, the charts aren't much different. You'll find very few jobs that you can do with your 475, that you wouldn't/couldn't do with a tms300. The 475's over the side chart, is basically the tms 300's over the rear chart. If you're traveling 100miles to a job, I'd much prefer the smaller tms 200/250. Its only 50,000lbs, instead of 80,000. It will do quite a bit of work, and pick up into the 20-25,000lbs range. That said, I find mine to be a little bit short of main boom. They're only 80' main, and a lot of times 95' would be much nicer, but you're only a jib swing away from 105'.
Thanks gentlemen ,Clitm you brought a very valid point on sharing parts or parts interchange and to go for another 475. ,I never thought of that .at the moment market is enquiring on the 475 that I am marketing . . that will also go well on double lifts if need be.my location generally is associated with heavy loads that's why I am a bit hesitant to go along with Knep on tms250 though I kanda of having this believe that 250 can be the busiest of them all ,tight places we don't mention its the best. CRANE OPARATOR is leaning more to tms 300 and point out few very important points. can do 80% what 475 do. same manual book, i have one already. less weight but almost same lifting capacity. boom length ok .I want to try and focus on mining and industrial customers as of now ,Operator you were spot on . heavy lifts more of transformers in the energy sector. . 250 ,300,475:Banghead .
I've been working on my Grove TMS475 for years! It is very nice to see how simple it really is. Grove TMS475 is definitely the best option for a beginer
Great indeed , thanks anngrant87 ,100% correct it is a great machine and I have purchased one. now the dilemma I am in is" which size to go for next". i am looking at less tonnage ,,which size?. do you think going for a second one 475 is a good idea.
Still makes me grin seeing tms475 and beginner in the same sentence. Like willie says "heck of a crane for a beginner". Obviously it's working out pretty well tho. Most guys don't start with a 50t so props to you guys for jumping in with both feet. https://cranenetwork.com/crane/truck-mounted-telescopic-boom-cranes/grove/tms250c/216829 This is a later tms250c. They upped the tonnage to 35 ton on the later ones. I'd bet this one sells in the mid 20s maybe less. With the long jib it's got 126' of boom, she'll chart out to 115' radius over the back. I believe the the 250cs have the offsetable jib as well. I really like this model of crane. I still think it'll outlift any other 3-axle crane. One other nice feature is the front bumper outrigger, gives it a complete 360 load chart. Basically the same crane we started our crane business with Can you tell I really liked ours? .
hello gentlemen ,I finally made a decision and purchased a tms 250c to become second chef of staff on my fleet of two. I found it to be a great piece of machine. though load chart is not so good compared to tms300. I really wanted a cummins but it has a cat 3208. surely you can not get all your specs you want on one machine including good price. 80" 30 jib. not so sure with this "cat". 3000hrs 90k on miles. tms 475 still doing a good job . meeting new friends along the way.
hello gentlemen ,I finally made a decision and purchased a tms 250c to become second chef of staff on my fleet of two. I found it to be a great piece of machine. though load chart is not so good compared to tms300. I really wanted a cummins but it has a cat 3208. surely you can not get all your specs you want on one machine including good price. 80" 30 jib. not so sure with this "cat". 3000hrs 90k on miles. tms 475 still doing a good job . View attachment 161872 meeting new friends along the way.
oooohhhh a bit rusty on posting pics
I would like to take this opotunity to wish all you guys A HAPPY FESTIVE SEASON , do not drink and drive gentlemen . TMS475 is doing ok with minimum maintainance .i changed engine oil @ 400hrs,not sure if its right that way, hyd oil not yet changed since last time 500hrs ago. greasing every sunday . oil filter, "a big silver element",like a big tin ,do you have to change it every time you change oil,i tried to run around but can not find it anywhere in my town. thank you once again to you all, i have learned so much from all of you,at times just by reading through posts, i found it to be very good route to take to learn more about cranes
just some pics , A Gold plant under construction .old ladie not disappointing .
Cool project. I look forward to more pictures.
just some recent pics ,the plant is taking shape and Ladie G is not disappointing either.. she is" the" pillar of the whole project. these tms grove are beasts,it stole the show when a 70ton Kato failed to lift and position a 45ton crusher pinion and guess what? old ladie G just took it with easy. some of these cranes here are not in their best conditions ,not underestimating Kato.
[QUOTE="Evans, post: 681672, member: 52346" these tms grove are beasts,it stole the show when a 70ton Kato failed to lift and position a 45ton crusher pinion and guess what? old ladie G just took it with easy. .[/QUOTE] That's normal for the old school big "G" cranes . They would actually lift what it was rated for . Grove has forgotten more about crane manufacturing than most companies will ever understand . Everything today is over rated on the load chart making the crane / equipment look bigger than it is . Keep up the good work Evans !
Hello to you all, big G and i we are doing fine. i have been busy with some big projects down here though these big mines do not pay as agreed and they want me to fund their projects.{unfair}, Good news though is i have managed to buy tms 250c and tms 300B to make a feet of 3. i know it might sound like i have rushed to buy, i thought i should have a small fleet to be in the game with funds i got from the mines. The 250c is in the yard and 300 on its way US port. cat 3208 with a bit off blowby but all sound ok ,it brings smoke from the breather . . i am yet to change oil and filters. SOME PICS [
Seems like it don't matter where you are in the world. Big companies like to hold your earned money as long as possible. Good luck and keep up updated. I enjoy your posts.
Congrads on the two additions to your fleet !
Just pics @ a coke cola plant.we had to negotiate a very tight space to bring out an old transformer and replace it with a new one. We also had to remove a 100 year old dead tree ,actually a 10 ton stub with all its roots to make way for a new building.
Sincerely hope you get paid for all your hard work. Great story have enjoyed reading your success thus far.
Thanks so much VitalCrane ,hard work is never rewarded most of the time . another challenge here is no one wants to hold your hand in this trade.once you are in, you are own your own especially on this side of the world.
Hello everyone, i am looking for some advise . which is a better machine than the other .A grove TM875 and TMS 875. All i know is one has 2 engines and the other has one. can 2 engines make one a better machine. Our government wants to put a ban on importation of 70s and 80s models ,so i want to try to bring in one of these old school type before the ban. My competitors are also a problem since they are very few guys with 80ton cranes ,so once you get a contract for smaller crane ,they tell customer that"'next time you want 80ton we will not give it to you because you are not giving us small jobs. The clients will end up giving these guys most of the jobs even if their rates are high to secure a 80ton. The double engine or the single engine machine ,which one do you prefer ?.
Better is a little subjective. I would tend to think the old tm cranes would be a little simpler just due to their age. Its generally cheaper to idle a small engine in the upper all day then have a big engine in the lower idling all day. Also you dont have a swivel to go bad like the single engine cranes do. One thing about those old groves is they are heavy old girls. Picking machines but very heavy. The two engine cranes almost feel like two different machines.
Forgot to mention that there seems to be more of the tm875's with the full power 114' boom then tms875's with the full power. The dead section gives a better chart but the full power would be less headache everytime you need more then 88' of boom. You could get an 88' jib with the tm but it really takes another crane to put the inserts in for anything over 32'. The tms jib came with a stinger that i believe was 56' total jib. More boom on board but less total. I think I would look for one that came with the 88' jib. You may never need it but if you lost a job due to not enough boom you'd kick yourself. Then you have to consider the carrier. I beleive the 6 axle carrier was maybe 9' wide or so while the 4 axle carrier is 11' wide. The 6 axle carrier has 2 stage outriggers while the 4 axle carrier I believe has single stage outriggers.
If I was choosing, I'd go the 2 engine one also. I'd also love one with the pierce carrier, just because they're super overbuilt. Full power main boom is nice. Find one that has all the jib too, like knepptune says. I know for me the 875's are too heavy, I can't get them to make axle weights from my highway department, but that's probably not a issue for you there. They're 130,000lb rigs, which is also about what a 165 ton gmk or demag weighs with no counterweights. Pierce carrier Standard grove carrier
Thanks gentlemen, Pierce carrier looks really a monster ,130 000lb .ooh i will loose an arm and a leg to ship this to Africa .i was overlooking this machine all this time because of the weight but technically this is the monster that can keep my rivals at bay and also will kill my big appetite to buy cranes for a long time to come. i really appreciate your advise gentlemen .i will start to read more about these pierce carrier TM875. oooh my Tms 250c is doing great though not yet on a long contract.
I guess I didnt realize there were three different carriers available. For some reason I'm thinking this is a Crane Carrier Company or something like that. I think I would.like the idea of having tri-drives back there. Those cranes are huge for 80t cranes, physically they're as big as a 110-120t crane as crane op said. Swing over the back and pick up whatever you want with those. If it gets a little light chain a dozer to the front and cable up. Lol. Can't do that these days but you can bet that was standard procedure back when those came off the assembly line.
The three steer and three drive is factory from grove. And they do have a better chart than the tandem steer, tandem drive. The pierce ones came from out west (I think washington/oregon), also had their own charts. I've seen the CCC ones on smaller cranes, (my first 25 ton was one). This one below is actually a Hendrickson carrier, which were also pretty stout: I've never seen a grove ad showing the pierce option, I don't know if pierce just bought the uppers from grove and married them, but they do have a grove furnished load chart in them.
Page 8 of this pdf shows the grove furnished options.
I've been thinking about your situation evans. As much as I like the beefy pierce carrier, I think you would be better served with a grove carrier, preferably the 4 axle. Pierce isn't going to have the parts resources that are still available as a grove carrier. Grove worldwide will still get you outrigger seal kits, extension and retract solenoids, etc, straight from the factory. The 4 axle is simply less moving parts to maintain, and the 6 axle is really just for less weight per axle, and I don't think you are worried about that.
Thanks Crane op , I thought as much.I think I am over ambitious on this one. I will keep it simply as you correctly stated. These tm875 come with dolly .are they possible to drive them with boom not on dolly on a long journey. I was offered one with no dolly and I was also trying to cut cost on the voyage to Africa.. If dolly is a must then i will go for one with dolly. It will be about 18m long in length.
The crane is designed to be driven without dolly, you don't have to have one. In the us, most states make you get under 26,000lbs per axle. Here in the state of missouri, I have to get under 20,000pounds per axle for the bridge /dot laws, to keep from destroying the roads and bridges. If your road department/ road laws don't require you to meet a certain axle weight, I would run without dolly. The rear axles are designed to handle the load without dolly, that said, if your roading it 500 miles (or way more- I don't know how far you have to go), you better have pretty good tires, and check inflation often and don't run too hard. They're running 40,000 lbs per axle on the rears, with the counterweight mounted on a 8x4 carrier. And with 44,000 total up front, you're pushing load rating on a 14.00r20 on both the front steers, and rear drive axles. It would be nice to remove the counterweight at the port, and haul it on a separate truck, it would really lighten you up on the rear axles. Just the counterweight is 20,000lbs. You can remove the counterweight with the crane, and you could send a separate truck to carry it. You can more easily purchase one that isn't set up for dolly, it will be cheaper to buy and to put on the boat (you pay by cubic space on the boat?) . Not a lot of the older tm cranes were set up for dolly from the factory.
Hello everyone, hope I find you well. Just some pics, check out the fake tree made in China. It's a Wi-Fi booster for internet company. 35 meters up.they putting them all over the city. My first double lift.we had to bring out a old 8ton machine through the roof .
Web site needs more pictures, don't see many of these beside the roads here in New Mexico. https://wisejetcranes.co.zw/ Joe H