I'm wondering how much or fast a track tensioner backing off is acceptable? I'm told it tensions right back up but it's been too long since continuous use to gauge how long it will hold track tension. Definitely goes several days before needing attention I'm told. Getting ready to fetch and bring home and wanting to address anything needed shortly afterward. Thanks,
I'd run it and see for myself. Different usage puts different stresses on them, so it is really subjective.
Just for reference we only have to adjust ours for track wear. Last winter re-sealed both on the D5G as it would leak down over a 24 hour period. Not too bad considering it was the factory seals dating back to 2004.
Track tensioners should not leak down at all. They usually leak when the undercarriage is worn out and the tension cylinders are extended to the end of their stroke.
Thanks. By the track gauge I have about 15% wear in the u/c since replacement. I can find nothing in the service records relating to anything on the tension cylinders so assume them original from 1975. Seller tells me he never ran them loose but didn't really keep any track of how often he pumped the right track up. A couple of shots every now and then is how it was referenced. Both sides measure very close to each other, so not run loose I'd think. The tractor is no stranger to a grease gun and I've purchased a Milwaukee M18 series along with two "Lock N Lube", (deep and extended reach) locking grease chucks to continue the tradition. Now knowing this tensioner leaking off is not normal, I'll get it addressed. Thanks kindly
It is common practice to rebuild the adjuster cylinders when the undercarriage is replaced.
Be very careful with air or battery powered grease guns on track tensioners as they can blow the seals out. As a general rule we only use manual guns.
Thanks. I purchased the Milwaukee as it has a measured stroke feature that works well. Set it for five pumps as example and it only strokes five times. you can also hear the motor load change as the pressure comes up. It ceases pumping immediately when the trigger is released. Really is easy and precise to use. In the several times I've used it lubricating rod ends and such, I find it as controllable as a manual gun; but a lot faster. Thanks for the tip as in years past I've just went fore and aft with the tractor and draped a straight edge across the points pumping the track adjuster to proper sag of the track. planning to do the same here as the u/c is not worn out.
The Milwaukee's are great guns. We have 3 of them and they've almost replaced our air greasers.
I have a three air powered grease guns. One Lincoln, one Graco, and a Balcrank mounted on a rolling drum. Used to do the Quik-Lube thing in the shop on trucks and trailers using a lot of grease and oils. The powerful cordless Milwaukee is very nice. I have a "Plews" manual gun and mount bracket I'll mount on the dozer just to have it there.
I've been using a Milwaukee M18 grease gun for about 3-4 years now and I've replaced 3 Pump Body/Gearcase Assembly (100-150€ each) It is a very good device until one of the lubrication points is "stuck" and you try to move it with pressure. Now trying DeWalt DCGG571M1-QW. Almost the same as the one produced by Milwaukee, but it has a big plus - an overpressure valve. Other than that, I like Milwaukee a lot better.
To h**l with that lol. After a reseal how many pumps does it take to tighten a track again? Have a 120lb keg with a Graco fireball and 50' hose reel on the truck. I'm not even sure if I own a working manual gun anymore lol
Have at it's your seals..
Im not doubting you but I have rebuilt hundreds of track adjusters and have never blown out a seal assuming the seals are good and the chrome isn't pitted or scratched. If they do blow out while adjusting I would say they are in need of replacing to begin with. I have never put a gauge on one too see what kind of pressure spikes occur while operating but I bet it is a lot higher than any grease gun could produce. I don't think that the cat factory has a bunch of people running around with manual guns to tighten every track they install.
Am I correct in assuming unless you're undercarriages just Plum worn out you will never reach full stroke of the tensioning cylinders?
Depends on the machine. Some put a stop at the end of the frame. Most now days don't, especially excavators. Here are a couple of photos of worn out tracks and the support blocks can go even farther.
Thanks. I can see the idler support is way past where it should be due to wear. That would have to be hard on the roller frame.
You have to remember we have members here that are new to heavy equipment that haven't rebuilt 100's of cylinders that may want to tighten their tracks up, so a little word of caution is in order from time to time.
I tend to forget that at times.
You do realize it only takes a few hundred pounds of grease pressure to adjust a track. Bad Bob
It's your seals as well BAD Bob - have it.
I ran a service truck for seven years and adjusted tracks on a lot of different types of machines. Dirty tracks will take more pressure to stretch than clean ones. Especially dirty ones, in the winter in Illinois. More than once I would be pumping on the tensioner and getting very little movement then all at once the stupid thing would pop ahead. Usually when that happened, I had to bleed excessive grease out to get the proper amount of sag in the track. I used both a Graco air powered gun and a handgun. Never ever blew a seal out. Using an air powered gun should only be used by someone with a h##ofa lot of experience adjusting tracks.
So how much surface area do a seal have? Bad Bob
A manual grease gun in good condition can pump to 10K PSI. Air or electric is not any better. The recoil spring in a dozer is loaded to the weight of the machine. A dozer weighing 80K can throw that much force just bumping into a fair size rock. I’ve never seen a pressure relief on an adjuster. Adjuster seals fail because of dirt or damage to the rod. The other failure mode is improper installation.
So since 1693TA is a newbie I think you guys should talk about how tight the tracks should be. To tight is not a good thing.
Thanks for the help and advice guys. Someplace I read to drive the tractor straight forward, then straight back 20 feet letting the machine come to a stop on flat ground without brakes. It then mentions to walk on the track to bring the slack between the front idler, and foremost track support roller. You then place a straightedge between these two members and slack is measured between these two using the high points of the grouser bar at each end, and lowest center point. You then use a grease gun to bring the sag up to where it needs to be which is probably 1 - 1-1/2 inches. Here is a snip of the track adjuster for the machine. Part #4 in the diagram shows to be a valve of some sort. I assumed this to be a pressure relief, but maybe it's a check valve?: Keep in mind I've not physically seen any of this myself. I do however plan to get these adjusted up shortly before a friend brings the tractor home. They may be fine now but the machine has not moved since December, and hasn't performed or pushed, anything in 20+ years. As always, any help or advice appreciated.
I've gone back through this thread and don't see anywhere that you identify what machine you are working on. The drawing above is reminiscent of a Deere dozer but I'm not sure. Item 3 in the drawing is just a grease zerk. Item 4 is a fitting with a cone at the bottom and a check valve inside. The cone allows controlled release of pressure in the cylinder. The valve and fitting are one piece for most other manufactures. Adjusting the tracks requires moving the dozer forward so all the slack ends up on top of the track frame. I've always driven forward and then steered to the side and then adjusted the loose side. Excavator tracks are adjusted by lifting one side and then measuring the distance between the track and the bottom of the track frame. In this case I've always lifted the side to adjust and moved the track in reverse to get the slack into the bottom.
This one by any chance..? HeavyEquipmentForums
I like this video a lot as it emulates pretty closely why my tractor was purchased. I am reclaiming just short of 13 acres for a homesite, and hayfield as my grand daughters are coming to horse tending age. Theses animals are great family endeavors. As the gent mentions in the video he is not going for clear cutting out of respect for wildlife. I am doing much the same as there 30 acres there to work with and it's all woods. I forgot to mention the machine is an Allis-Chalmers HD11 Series B design. I have purged from memory any reference to "Fiat-Allis", but the tractor is a 1975 build. Watching Youtube videos I've seen several parties block the front idler at the grouser with a timber and attempt to climb this to put slack in the track. They always use their weight to bounce on the track between the front idler and support roller to get the most slack then adjust to tension. Most then operate the machine and check it again. Thanks for addressing the valve. I made a career out of reading, interpreting, streamlining, modifying, and writing tech manuals, so until I garner a bit of experience by reality, I have to rely upon, and solicit input from others.
That is it Nige. Thanks for bringing it back to the forefront.
To release the track adjuster the first item is to clean out the dirt and debris in the track frame as much as possible before opening the adjuster fitting. Once you release the fitting you can put the blade on the ground and then put the machine in reverse and steer to pull the track and idler back. There are also plenty of times I've had to pick up the blade and pack chunks of wood between the idler and the blade linkages and then force the blade down get the idler to come all the way back.
Thanks, it really doesn't seem a difficult task at all. Given these shouldn't leak down at all but seemingly do, is this something needing checked routinely, and how much slack should be allowed before addressing? I would assume that valve does function much like a rupture valve in other equipment but doesn't require replacement from actuation. This would be from overpressurization of the protected circuit from impact of the front idler with an immovable object.....
Don't assume ,that valve is a check valve keeps grease pressure off the grease fitting. You back it out to release the grease to loosen the tracks. Bad Bob
Thanks Bob; thinking I have a pretty good grasp of the concept now. Was talking with the seller this morning and he reminded me of a "weeping" bottom roller on the opposite side of the tractor. he said the now defunct servicing company always topped it off with the annual service routines but it's not been touched in over 20 years. I didn't notice anything abnormal when under it last fall where it had sat all those years, so can't can't be anything major, or it could be dry. Regardless I want to address this also as they appear to be a serviceable unit:
The suspect "weeping" roller is a replacement with a filler plug installed and matches item #10 shown in the illustration above in the "bushing type" roller. This is a metal plug that kind of looks as if a special coupler would be required rather than a conventional grease coupler. The other rollers appear to be the roller bearing type as the through shaft ends are round where the bushing type has flats. These are easily seen from the underside of the tractor. I don't see evidence of leakage myself but may pull that plug to ensure there is oil contained within. The bushing type rollers were service replacement parts. The track release spring and apparatus are contained within an oil reservoir on this tractor. Each spring compartment has two gallons of oil contained within. The push rod penetrates the gland of this reservoir and bears against the release spring. These are clean and dry and both reservoirs are equal in content level.
Citing my limited dozer experience is limited to International Harvester, I remembered the track release being different on these than me Allis-Chalmers. I went looking for reference and found this video: