After several months of research, and a lot of time lurking here and on another site, I finally broke down and bought this little loader I've been driving by every day. After I got it home I learned it was a Hough HA, although I had originally thought it to be a H25. It's in pretty rough shape, and so far I've only been able to determine that the motor is not locked up. The 2 speed shifter is stuck, but the FWD/REV shifter moves freely. I'm trying to determine the D.O.M. right now so I can start looking for parts. It has a Waukesha FC-281-G engine, but I can't find the Date Stamp on the tag. Anyone have info for the little Turd?
I own 1 just like it and mine is apparently a hough ha or h25 :usaHey, look around in here there's alot of pics of similar machines in these forums my question is about same as yours but mine is up and running and it seems to be ok but is ready for some engine and trans work plus a wheel hub is cracking so be sure to remove and examine the drive hub from axel the cracks hide inside the taper spline axel portion inner side. I'll share some pics of mine in side this week.
Not sure what shape yours is in, but if you can read the panel just below the guages, thats where mine reads "MODEL HA PAYLOADER" Stamped into the aluminum of the dash panel. Reaches all the way across the dash. I'd looked at a lot of pics calling theirs H25's and H25B's, and they looked very similar to mine. I just assumed mine was too. No matter, I think it'll clean up and do just fine. I'll give the axles a hard inspect when I pull it apart. Thanks! Brad
Get your butt over to redpowermagazine.com. There have been 2 or 3 of these totally rebuilt in just the last few months. These guys touched on just about everything.......GO NOW!In case you actually do go there it will be in the construction machines forum.
egoman- I'm waiting for the Admin to give me permissions there now! I'm on the list I guess but so far I can't even post!!!
Brad, Congratulations on your purchase! Your Payloader appears to be a third generation machine (4 cylinder lift arrangement, “PAYLOADER” cast into the counterweight). Production of these machines began in approximately 1955. Believe it or not, yours looks in much better shape than what I started with. As I found with mine, it is very difficult to determine the exact year of manufacture of these loaders. My restoration took over a year and was one of the most challenging and rewarding projects that I ever undertook. The details can be seen over on the on the redpower site. Please feel free to contact me (or post) any questions you may have about your machine and/or where to look for parts. We'll try to get you through it. Ray
Ray, Yours was one of the first I saw when I started researching. I'm hoping to get mine close to the state your is in now! I'm pretty fortunate in that I work at a auto parts store, and we're in a small farming community with lots of old "Antique" tractors still being used regularly around here. We have access to a lot of the old parts still, so I'm going to take advantage of that. I'm going to take the points/cap/rotor in to work with me and see if I can get some replacements soon, and the carb's gonna get kitted so I can fire it up at least long enuff to move it around. I had to use my 1486 IH to push the little turd into the shop, and it's in the way now. Have you ever run across anyone who can de-code the serial #'s to find date-of-mfg? I've spent several hours on-line searching, and I have'nt even been able to find a reference to the FC-281-G engine!! Thanks to all the comments so far. I'll try to keep pics posted of the progress. Brad
farminhard, redpower has problems with their registration, you can't do it online. You have to call the phone number on the homepage and ask the woman to register you. Terry
farminhard - I had trouble registering on redpower. After a week or so, I tried again and it went through the second time. I didn't have to call. PS - I bought a H-25b a couple weeks ago. I haven't received the serial number yet from the seller to determine the year. Can't wait for warmer weather to bring it home
Might think about replacing the points with a Petronix module. A little pricey, but I have done it with all my gas powered equipment and never messed with points again. Yesterdaystractor.com should have the one you would need. Terry
Brad, The FC-281 is just a derivative of the tried and true Waukesha FC engine. According to my documentation this engine was used in payloader S/Ns 26900 thru 27400 and 2A-27401 & up. Looking at your pictures, you may have a Delco distributor. But if it is a Prestolite, here are the Standard part numbers: Dist cap AL137, Cap cover AL136, Rotor AL102, Condenser AL63 and points Blue Streak AL5661X. For a replacement carb, try Zenith P/N 14544. If you need any engine parts try Jobbers Warehouse in Philadelphia. They hooked me up with a new cylinder head and water pump for my engine. Ray
Well, I had to get Big Red(my 1486) out and push the Turd(The HA's new name) out of the way to do a small weld job for my father-in-law. Afterward I was standing there thinking about the points problem. Decided to get on-line and see what my options were and....Here you guys are with the answers! As far as the carb goes, I think(i.e. hope) a rebuild kit will fix it. I'm more concerned with the hole in the exhaust manifold right now. I'm wondering if the one off an 8N will work? Been a while since I've seen one up close, but if memory serves, they use the same block... What do you guys think? If it comes down to it, I can braze the hole shut, but I think I'd be happier if it was more solid. I've got to take it off anyway because it looks like a certain furry rodent has used it for food storage... I'll give Redpower a day or two before I try it again. I'm goin' back out to do some more tinkerin' while my wife's gone! Brad
Brad, “Turd” meet “Bob the Builder”….. In all seriousness don’t worry about the transmission yet. As I’ve found it’s easier to get the transmission in gear when the engine is running. I also could not get the High/Low shifter to move, once I started using my machine it began to free up. Concentrate on the engine at first, and then worry about the transmission next. From what I’ve seen, these transmissions are built pretty tough. Does your machine have a torque converter or is it completely manual? Keep an eye out on ebay for your exhaust manifold. I don’t think a Ford 8N manifold is compatible with the Waukesha FC. Believe me I am familiar with both and they may look similar but are not the same. Your engine, the FC-281 differs from the previous FC-230 in a couple of ways. It is rated at 33 HP vs. 31.5 of the earlier model. I believe this was accomplished by increasing the governed speed from 1800 RPM on the FC-230 to 2000 RPM on the FC-281. I don’t see any other differences. I looked at my builder’s plate on my engine and found the date code 531. I interpret the build date as January 1953. See if your engine has the same information. Ray A quick picture of my carb instalation
Ray, I was thinking the same thing on the trans. I expect, after all the pushing and pulling I've done to it, that the tranny does have some tension on it. I've decided the same thing...Get it runnig first! As to your ?, mine does have the torque converter. I just finished removing the carb, then I ran up to our store and did a quick search to find a re-build kit. Just so happens, I had one. The thing that concerns me tho is the play that's in the shaft of the governor's butterly. It's got too much I think. I'm probly going to put the kit in it, then start looking for a replacement. About the builders plate, mine has 555. If your theory is correct, then mine would be May of '55? I don't know... We need to find someone who can read the serial numbers! The dash plate number that says "refer to this number when ordering parts" is 2A27854. I'm hoping I can win the bid on ebay for a "parts catalog" that my serial number falls under. We'll see. I'm surfing now for other stuff/info for Turd...
Oh yeah, Turd said to say Hi to Bob...
Just got an opinion saying my hough's engine is a 1963 I've been thinking that mine would be a 1955-1967 cause the 67's look a little different and the old pre55's were described by Pauhl300 as not having 4-cyl hydraulics and torque converter. With no tag to get the model or any numbers to reference the last hunch was to go with the engine tag and it was looked up by a Waukesha engine supplier as a feb-march 1963. So maybe my mystery Hough is a 1963 but can't be sure the model. I still am waiting to post some pics here.
Hi Datsunman, Pre 1955 Payloaders such as mine, had twin displacement single acting 3.5 in. dia. cylinders on the booms. And a single displacement type single acting 3.5 in. dia. cylinder on the bucket. Early Payloaders had a manual release bucket. Patrick in France has a perfect example of one of these early Payloaders. Check his out on the redpower site. Ray Here are pictures of the pre-’55 cylinder arrangement:
Hey, thanks so I'll bet mine is an after 1955 model. I got over to red power and the pics over there tell me likewise. I'm still waiting to become classified as a member instead of the propationary member so I'll get pic posting priviledges.
2A27854 was shipped in 1956
Thanks Brian! I assume you found that info in the Payline? I tried to order one from amazon, but they irritated me pretty bad. Guess I'll find a copy elsewhere. Thanks again for the info! Brad
datsunman, Took several days to get "accepted" over at Redpower. I was just getting ready to give up on 'em when I got the email. Be patient.
Ray I'm not sure but I think you got too much time on your hands...! Hope I have the patience to make mine look that good.
Brad, Anything worth doing is worth over doing! In all honesty, my other passion is boating and I couldn’t do that in the winter. All of you have seen the results. My machine is not perfect. Years of neglect had already taken its toll on the sheet metal. But I did the best with what I had to work with. In the end these machines were designed to be worked hard. I’m amazed to see as many of these machines still in existence. This is a true testament to there original design! Ray
Cypress 7230 my first line machine Should be a new thread, Oops.
Well I thought I was making progress... Never disassemble a carburetor with a 2 yr old anywhere close. I did. It cost me $26 for a new float. Still not sure where she hid the darn thing...
farminHardThat sounds like a dad's retrospective. We all learn the hard way sometimes. I'll be a dad first time here in a few short months. I'll remember that carburetors and 2yr olds do not mix. Does it make you feel better knowing that I'll benefit from your experience.
datsunman, First off, Congratulations! Fatherhood is Great!! As for you learning from my experience, I guess it depends on how you apply it. Don't be afraid to let your child help, but keep a better eye on them than I did! wouldn't trade her for the world, regardless what she packs off! Here's my advice, for what it's worth... 1. Never discipline while angry. 2. Say "I love you" before bed. 3. Don't spend too much time at work. 4. Chase a butterfly once in a while. Never, Ever sweat the small stuff. And remember, It's All Small Stuff... Brad
That's sound advice and I must say that I'd agree. Say, I made a little progress and now have a video of my hough on a blogspot, You should find it at http://craftsman-bycraftsman.blogspot.com/
You're doing good datsunman! Hopefully mine will at least start & run this weekend. Been rebuilding the front end on Father-in-law's truck, so I haven't had any time, or room, to work on it. keep after it! Brad
I have some manuals for HA, 25, Hough, and Towmotor, PM me and I can look and see if I have what you need?????
Hey, farminhand I just showed my dear wife that picture of you and your 2yrold daughter. She says "Oh, how cute!" I think its sweet too. Hey, maybe she'll learn to fix carburetors and stuff just like you. When I was 5, my dad gave me a little 3hp horizantal shaft Techumse engine that was completely degreased and showed me how it went together, worked and so on. It was soon my favorite toy, usually on the kitchen table,... datsunman
datsunman, tell your wife I said thanks! She's my little Angel. I'm planning on teaching her how to take things apart and put them back together just like I did as a kid. My dad did the same with me. I helped him tear down and rebuild an LT1 he put in a '63 split-window 'Vette when I was 10. He still has the car, and It'll get passed on to my daughter when the time comes.
As for my project, I've pulled the engine assembly, transmission and all, out of the frame. Dropped the oil pan. Head's off. Old valves are out. Pulled the front cover to replace front main seal. Someone's been into the Turd before, as the rods are marked. I got new valves, and have been seating them tonight. I have my Head gasket set & Oil Pan set. Carb is rebuilt and ready to go back on. Waiting on front main seal, which'll be in Saturday. With any luck, by this time next week I'll have Turd doing laps in the yard. ...If I can find some decent used rear tires... I'll try to get some pics of the damage I've done so far this weekend. Brad
When I had to replace the rear tire on mine it was a 9inch rim so I couldn't find that size. My choice ended up to be enlarging the rim center hole of a standard trailer rim and grinding a smidge of metal off the corner of the spindle to allow clearance for the wider rim. That allowed the 8inch rim to be used in place of the original 9inch. The trailer rim isn't as heavy duty but no problems so far,,,. datsunman
I passed up on buying one of those several yrs ago though a friend of mine who was using it in his junk yard. He offered it to me for $500 and showed me that it in fact ran and worked fine. He was using it for picking up engines, trannys, batteries, small scrap and such. He ended up selling it and i spotted it in a fellows back yard about a month ago. This one was a maroon color and i dont know the make, model or year but it was identical to these.
Brad, One of these days, hopefully in the very distant future, I will pull my motor and do the re-seal thing. Right now I can deal with the occasional engine oil spots on the garage floor. One of these little FC Waukesha's just sold on ebay yesterday for close to $1000.00. The item number was 320349295667. It was a completely reconditioned engine ready for re-assembly. Too bad no one took him up on the $400.00 "buy it now" feature before the bidding started. Ray
Ah, that was a bargain indeed! I showed my dear wife this mention of yours and it has further proven to her that my Hough is truely worth the 500 bucks "we" paid for it. Gotta say if I had the money and my Hough needed the engine, a ready to assemble engine would be a bargain at one grand. ,...datsunman
Been away for a while, doing other things. Still don't have Turd back together. I pulled the driveshaft(If you can call it that..)out and replaced the u-joints. The bolts holding the joints together were trashed, so I thought I'd replace them too. Turns out, in my neck of the woods anyway, those 5/16"-24x1-3/4" socket head cap screws are hard to find! It took me a while to track some down. So now maybe, in between all my other projects, I can get the little bugger back together. What I need to find now is a set of front drive wheels. Mine are both rusted so bad I don't think I can repair them. I finally got the right wheel off the hub tonight. It was rusted to the hub, and I had to basically pry it off. Anyone got a set of spare wheels lying around...?
Anybody got the head bolt torque sequence for a FC scribbled on a napkin, by chance...? Just came back in from the shop, and I have the head sitting on the block. Found the torque specs, but no sequence... Anyone...Anyone...?
Took this picture from my engine manual since I don't have a scanner here. Hopefully this helps. Best of luck with your engine work. Ray
Hey thanks Ray! What book is that? I need to find one of them! I read this earlier, went out and snugged everything down and put the pan back on. I had to replace all my head bolts due to massive corrosion, and I didn't think about the 2 studs over the intake/exhaust holes. Sure glad you had this pic! It saved me a load of cussin' later when I'd have had problems with those bolts. Hopefully, now that I've done my duty for Uncle, I can get back to my projects. I'll try to get some progress pics soon. Thanks again Ray! Brad
I had to replace one of the rims on mine. I found a 16inch lockbead rim from a 3/4 ton pickup an (8-hole) it was right width but set out about 3/8inch further. I drilled out the rivets of that rim and removed the mid portion, welded the holes shut and some blocks to keep it from spinning like the hough had. works good Look for some lockbeads and measure them up. I have some more just taking up space.
Hey Datsunman! another friend here had mentioned old truck wheels too. Hadn't thought of removing the center of one though! I have a few places I might be able to find some of them. Now, another question. Anyone know where, if it even has one, the thermostat goes on a FC engine? I looked it up at work and found the part # that's supposed to fit, but I've looked at the picture and I can't figure out where it's supposed to go....? It certainly doesn't go in the lower housing, and the water pump neck isn't stepped to accept one that I can tell. Don't remember taking one out when I tore Turd down either. I'm going to hunt down the upper hose I took off to see if it's inside, like the old ford tractors? Any clues? Brad
Hey Brad, As a thermostat, I took a 160° automotive thermostat and cut down the outside diameter to 2”. I then bonded it to the outlet of the waterpump housing. After that, I took a 1.5” PVC coupling (which is 2” in diameter) and bonded that to the thermostat. I essence, the thermostat is sandwiched between the coupling and the waterpump outlet. Once the adhesive (RTV) sets, the outlet hose should slip right over this assembly. Once in place, use two hose clamps, put one around the waterpump outlet and the other around the PVC spacer. This keeps the assembly from moving with the water flow. So far, this setup has worked very well for me. Going back a couple of posts, I got my manuals from the Yesterdays Tractors web site. They are reproductions, but that’s all I needed. Ray
I believe the thermistat is in a brass unit in the middle of the top radiator hose of mine. I could post a pic of it if needed.
Here is a picture of where the thermistat hides in my HA. Right between the pump outlet and the radiator. I'd think you could find one similar to this in automotive restoration suppliers or build one with some plumbing hardware and the right tools. I know that a 94 ford escort 1.9liter thermistat is a small diameter, like 1.2-1.5 inch maybe that could be incorporated into the pump outlet somehow.
so how much does this payloader weigh?