As a part of the restoration of my 1968 580CK, I decided to attempt removal of the instrument cluster casing. There were alot of loose wires and exposed wires, and non-working gauges, plus it makes painting MUCH easier to have all this removed first. Removal was pretty straight forward....two bolts on the side, and one up top. Then, all the wiring to the gauges had to be loosened, the diesel kill cable, and oil pressure line had to come off. Here is the cluster removed: I noticed that on the backside, you can see the stamped circle where another gauge can be mounted (between the existing oil pressure and water temp gauges, a spot right above the steering wheel). In this pic you can see the indent where the gauge could be placed: To remove this "knock-out" hole, is it best to first drill a one inch hole which you can then use to pry the knock-out plug out? For some reason, my 580 CK does not have a fuel gauge. It has an oil pressure and water temp., but no fuel gauge. So, I could knock out this plug and put the fuel gauge in its place. The two small outer holes are for lights for the oil pressure and generator. There are also two small light holes about an inch higher up which are not shown in my CK manual. Are these lights for an optional set of flashing highway lights? There is also a hole beside the light switch on the bottom right which may be where a flasher switch was located.....anyone know if this was an option back in 1968?
I doubt that's actually a knockout, more likely just a depression stamped in to locate where to punch the hole. I would plan on getting the appropriate sized hole saw to do a clean job without bending the sheet metal all up.
lantraxco......thanks for replying....maybe your right. I would hate to damage the sheet metal which is in perfect condition. Will first buy a gauge, then try to borrow the right hole saw for it.
It doesn't have a fuel gauge? That sure looks like a fuel sending unit in your 1st picture. What did that wire fasten to?
dirtdauber......yep, there is a sending unit, but the wire was just dangling down. I guess a prior owner figgered that the water temp gauge was more important than a fuel gauge.....or maybe the water temp was wired to the fuel sending unit, and actually registered in degrees instead of gallons????? Hey Bubba, you got about 240 degrees left in the fuel tank.......keep on diggin! Funny.
lantraxco and whoever else may be following this thread: It was a piece of cake knocking out the middle dash plug: I used a large 2" socket on the bottom, and happened to see the backhoe retaining pin which worked perfect as the large punch. A couple soft taps with the ball peen hammer and she popped loose. Plug out, and ready for sanding: Sanded, ready for primer & paint: After primer and first coat of yeller: Another coat or two of yeller, and then I can find a fuel gauge and reinstall. Not too difficult.
I stand corrected, good job!
Update on the instrument panel: After cleaning all the gauges and Oil Pressure Lite and GEN Lite, I found that the old bulbs were still good, but alot of the wiring had long been pulled off or cut. After cleaning the bulb terminals, I noticed that there was a bit of old red crusty paint still on a small portion of the bulbs.....so I just cleaned the brass base with a wire brush to ensure good electron flow, and then used some red paint on the bulbs. Gauges in and red bulb glowing: There is a "map lite/instrument nite light" in this picture which is missing a bulb and some type of cover around it. It seems that it somehow operates by pushing on it.....does anyone else have one that still works? Is it a push type? Got a pic of what the thing is supposed to look like? There is a hole on the right side also for one
http://www.colemanequip.com/Case-58...W-AL-TERNATOR-1ST-USED-TRAC-S-N-8656686-0YCy/ Used to call that type of light eyebrow lighting....
lantraxco.....thanks for the Coleman link.....I see that its not for a "light", but its a fuse holder. I am just missing the fuse and the end cap. Thats why there was a pretty deep spring-loaded recess in there.....to hold a fuse. So, I am wondering if there is another fuse holder on the opposite side where there is only a hole.....I will have to do some more checking.
Wrong hole... look closely at the diagram, the upper two holes are where the #3 lights go, to shine on the guages I would guess. The fuseholder fits in the lower left hole?
Lantraxco......Wrong hole? Interesting. Whoever took apart this dash 30 years ago, really goofed-up when putting it back together......they had this fuse holder in the upper left hole (where I was going to put it back), the fuel gauge was gone, and the temp gauge was in the wrong spot. The only thing that they got right was the tach which is "goof-proof", as there is only one big hole to fit it in. I wish another CK owner would zap a pic of their dash and paste it here.
Lantraxco.....how about the two holes under the tach? One is for the pull-out headlight switch......any idea what the other was for? Maybe flashers? Maybe ejection button for seat? Ooooopssss.....I just remembered.....the small hole to the left (where I was saying that maybe the fuse holder goes) is where the engine shut off cable mounts. So, maybe the fuse holder for the headlights goes right beside the headlight switch????
Update pics on the instrument gauges: Found a new replacement Fuse Holder that goes below the Tach. Changed the old dash lights (which were missing) to two switches.....one for flashing rear fender lights, and another for one or two rear lights. Thanks to TractorStuff, I now have the Case Fuel Gauge mounted in the center of the instrument cluster. And the chrome Case "Old Abe" Eagle that mounts to the front grill is a true work of art......looks too darn good to put on the tractor!
Hoping one of the site experts can answer this small electrical question: Here is a pic of the dash cluster before I mounted it back on the tractor: And the rear: My question pertains to the electrical power supply wire going to the fuel gauge and water temp gauge. I used the schematic in the shop manual/parts manual, and made the "hot" wire going to the gauges the same one as shown in the drawings. So, I have a hot coming from the key switch up to the fuel gauge, and it then goes over to supply power to the water temp gauge. I did not run an official ground from the fuel gauge to ground, but since the water temp gauge had a lug for a "ground", I did run a dedicated ground from that gauge to the ground terminal. The black wire is the "hot" from the key to the gauges, and the whites are the wires running to the fuel sending unit and the water temp sender unit. When I first tested the water temp gauge, I turned the key switch "on", and noticed that the water temp needle moved about 1/8" to the "left"....from about 0 to some low negative reading. I traced the wire and found a break near the temp sending unit, and repaired the break. I then turned the switch to "on", and this time the needle does not move. Is it normal for the temp gauge to stay at 0 until the tractor starts and begins to heat up, or maybe a sign that i ran the hot wire to the wrong terminal on the water gauge? I also am not getting any movement from the fuel gauge, and that wire is new from the sending unit to the gauge, and the tank is full. Does all this sound like I simply ran the hot to the wrong side of the gauges? Thanks.
I am a bit jealous. One of the things that is stopping me from doing work like that on my '52 oliver is the fact that the panel, cover, side shrouds, are all spot welded together. Removing it would be ugly on a good day. I'm waiting until I can get some nice sheet metal and remake it from scratch. THings are looking good. Amazing how new paint brings back life to an older machine.
Fatjay.....hey, thanks for the good comment. Spot welds? Mann.....that definately would slow down my progress too. Good luck on all that sheet metal, and other work on your Oliver.
Spot welds and htey're rusted. I bought it to use it first, restore it later. Restoring it is going to be some job when I get there. My tins are all a mess, yours look pretty great though, I'm jealous.
FAtjay......Well, you should have seen the bent-up piece of tin called a "fender" that I restored and put back on yesterday.....looks like it has taken more beatings than Babe Ruth's bat: Hey, I got her running yesterday and got the new hydraulic fluid pumping through her veins: Hey......any idea about my question on wiring the fuel/temp gauges? Im thinking that maybe the hot wire should go to the other leads on the gauges????
Hi 68, I looked over your wiring multiple times. It looks just like my service manual. Only difference I see is the ground from the fuel gauge to true ground. I was under the impression the sending units for each reading were the grounds. Anyway the hot comes from the ignition to right side of temp gauge (right lead while holding gauge with reading face away from you) and from there to right side of fuel gauge. The second wire from each gauge should go to their respective sending units. Each time I start my 580 the temp gauge moves slightly up the scale and then climbs quickly as the tractor warms up. Since your machine is now running did the temp gauge work? A thought with the fuel gauge would be the sending unit. They get beat up really badly after years in a tank. So the wiring may be fine, the sending unit may be conking out on you. Good luck and great job on the resto work. I am very jealous!
FlipTopp10......Hey, thanks for sending your thoughts. I have been hoping someone would give me some advice on the electrical issues. My 580 is a 1968, and the service manual/parts manual I have is for a 1974......but I am pretty sure the wiring did not change during that time. I tried to wire it based on the manual. The reason I put a ground wire from the Temp Gauge (the one with the red plug at the top of the gauge) was because it had two mounting screws and the word "GRND" beside them. Since I put fresh paint on the dash, I was thinking that the gauge holding clamp might not bite into the paint and not create a good ground......so I ran a wire from "Grnd" to the main grounding spot. I dont think this would be an issue. Regarding the Temp Gauge, when I turn the key to "On" position, the Temp Needle does move to the "left" about 1/8". The needle is on "0", but manages to move to the left just a bit when the key is turned on. After engine start-up, the gauge remains to the left and does not show any sign of moving up the scale. That is why I was thinking that maybe I got the hot wire going to the wrong terminal on the Temp Gauge........you think that is possible? If this is the case, then maybe the Feul Gauge is also wired to the wrong terminal. Would it damage the gauges if I tried reversing the terminals where the hot wire goes to? I would hate to fry the gauges trying a stupid experiment. If you or someone gives me the "OK", I will try reversing the wires and see if that makes a difference. I could also try removing the ground wire running to the Temp Gauge and see if that makes a difference. Thanks for the positive feedback on my resto work. I just put a new barco-lounger on her yesterday. I was impressed with the seat I got from TractorStuff, as the bolt pattern was an exact fit.....no drilling at all needed: Got the old rotting tires off and painted/patched the rusty insides, and had to drill a new valve stem hole. Getting 4 new tires (a wallet-shocker), but they should last a couple life-times. You can see the rust was pretty bad around the valve stem holes. I took them to a machine shop, hoping they could tig weld some new metal in, but they said it was too much work, and it would be cheaper to buy new rims. So, I did a "red-neck" repair that saved me alot of bucks, and should last pretty long......I used fiberglass, and one metal-screen patch over the bad spots, and left the stuff on pretty thick, but sanded well to prevent any possible sharp spots rubbing on the tubes. A quick coat of rustoleum primer, and the tires are ready to go on. In the meantime, if I run accross a pair of good rear rims for a decent price I will try to pick them up.
The gauges should be marked if you look closely, maybe only a + and an S for power and sender, or something like that. Leave the power wires on, remove the other wire and jumper to a known good ground, the gauge should go full scale, both the temp and the fuel. You may have sender issues, or lack of a good ground at the sender, especially the fuel as the tank itself may not be well grounded. Good luck.
Lantraxco......Hey, thats a great idea.....the fuel tank may have a poor ground as it does rest on rubber bumpers I think. I did thoroughly wire brush and clean the sending unit screw where the wire attaches, but now I will check around the fuel tank and see if I can find a way to get a good ground to it. (But it kinda seems that the fuel sender unit is just based on resistance....as the plunger goes up with the fuel level, the resistance decreases, and more current flows to the fuel gauge, giving a higher reading......so my mind is thinking that maybe a ground to the fuel tank may not be needed. But worth a try). I just checked some other pics, and you are right.....there was an "S" on the Temp Gauge, and I did have it wired right.....that wire going to the Temp Sender. However, I did not see any markings on the Fuel Gauge. I will try what you said.....putting the sender wires to a good ground and see how the gauges react. Could simply be just the 30 year old sender unit. Thanks.
Yes, both senders are variable resistance, but resistance to what? Resistance between the wire terminal and ground. The fuel sender has to be grounded somehow, and the temp sender grounds to the engine block, when you get a new temp sender they usually have an instruction slip with them that says "Use no teflon tape or thread sealer on this sender!" to ensure it grounds through the brass threads.
Regarding a ground on the gauge case, it is usually there just to ground the light bulb.
Lantraxco......I will unscrew the temp sender, wire brush/clean, and put back in and see what happens. Seems this problem is an easy fix. Cmark........Yea, you are right.....that ground is probably to ensure the bulb works right.
Nice job man I'm in the process of doing this , will start tomorrow , your post will surely help, on mine left of the fose holder in a pull switch for tractor front sealed beam