Hi seeking advice on how to move a burnt out machine
If you provided even a FEW more details such as machine Make and Model it would help people with experience on said machine to give you some pertinent advice on how to move it in its present condition. Also if you have some photos of the machine showing the extent of the damage post them up.
30 tonne Hyundai 290 with a ensign grapple. burnt engine and cab.but the boom and tracking gear survived the blaze.we are thinking of removing grapple
You can take the covers off of the planetary drives and remove the sun shaft or the planetary gear assembly and that would free up the tracks to roll. The boom is a different story.
Planetary drives ...is that the same as what we newzealanders call final drives??
Yes, on the outside of the track drive motors.
Another way of moving it is remove the bolts on the sprockets so they spin on the hub and drag the bugger. I see the weather conditions aren't real flash and depending on the ground conditions opening up the planetary hubs could become problematic. And remember that which ever way you choose that machine won't have breaks and having a runaway isn't what you need.
The only way I can think of to move the boom/arm/bucket is to disconnect all the hoses that go to them. Be carefull as some may be under load. As soon as you start to loosen them oil will bleed out. What I have done is get some lighter hoses made up with the smae ends and put the loose ends into a drum so you can catch the oil. The boom, arm and bucke will all be limp after that.
If overhead clearance isn't a problem, you can block the boom cylinders up after unhooking them as talked about up thread. Cut some pipe sections in half that will fit over the rod, lift the boom up with another machine. And tab weld the two halves all over the place. Now the boom's up. You can bleed the stick in now so that it comes in tight. Chain it in tight . Then you're doing the bolts on the sprockets as suggested and having some really big iron there to prevent the runaway. That ain't no joke!
An important message regarding burnt viton seals an 0rings. DON'T TOUCH THEM WITH BARE SKIN. Burnt viton chemistry changes and will rot all soft tissue and the only remedy is amputation.
@skyking , angle iron works well to and less work involved.
Whoa, more on this please . . . ?
I am with Acoals ,I don't even know what a viton seal/O-rong is or what ,if anything I own will have them but I am all ears in this case eye balls, I am definitely paying attention
Is this the same as drive seals?? For final drives and/or drive motors.?
Possibly Hydrofluoric acid. Nasty stuff.
Just 1 of many. Brave Search Search the Web. Privately. Truly useful results, AI-powered answers, & more. All from an independent index. No profiling, no bias, no Big Tech. search.brave.com Some waterpumps also use a mechanical seal that shouldn't be in contact with skin. They're not viton but just as bad. Where abouts in NZ are you retibroslogging?
They can be found in these applications but not always. Not intending to be alarmist but it's probably less adventurous to treat all as bad. The adventurous will have a yarn to tell though if they're wrong.
Hydroflouric acid is no joke, thanks @Tones . "Hydrofluoric acid (HF) exposure is very toxic and can be fatal if not treated immediately . HF is absorbed quickly; however, damage/symptoms can occur hours to days later. Any person exposed to HF must have immediate first aid, followed by immediate medical treatment from a physician."
No wuckin furries @skyking .
Very good to know! Thanks for posting this.
Well, you learn something new everyday. I for one have worked on burnt seals. I found this info on UK gov website, which might be useful: "Fluoroelastomers Background Viton is a synthetic rubber material (a fluoroelastomer) used, for example, in some engine gaskets. Stories have been circulating around the world about horrendous injuries that have occurred to unsuspecting people coming into contact with the breakdown products of fluoroelastomers when a vehicle has been involved in a fire. Every few years these get resurrected and a new panic breaks out so, hopefully, this will set the record straight. The truth As with many urban or industry myths, there may be a tiny element of truth that makes the story more believable. In this case it goes back to 1981 at the National Nuclear Corporation in Risley (UK). An experiment was been carried out to see what happens when a Viton O ring was heated to about 400 Celsius in sealed test rig. When the worker dismantled the apparatus a clear liquid was ejected under pressure very close to his fingers. This led to discomfort and an untreated deep-seated burn developed over a period of days – eventually leading to amputation of part of his finger. The incident was investigated by HSE and, on repeating the experiment it was shown that hydrofluoric acid (HF) was produced (from hydrogen fluoride gas in presence of water). It can cause corrosive burns due to free hydrogen ions, and chemical burns from tissue penetration by fluoride ions. However, it is readily treated by the use of calcium gluconate gel (See INDG 307 Hydrofluoric acid poisoning). Fact There is no verifiable incident related to HF from burnt out vehicles anywhere in the world. And for fairly good scientific reasons. Hydrogen fluoride is a gas and, in the event of it being produced from a fluoroelastomer in a fire, it would disperse very quickly with the flames. It also needs water to produce hydrofluoric acid but if you put out the flames with an extinguisher you also dilute and wash away any acid. It seems it is rather difficult to reproduce the 600 psi, sealed-vessel conditions of the laboratory experiment in a real vehicle fire situation. It makes sense to wear suitable gloves to stop getting you hands dirty when dealing with burnt-out vehicles, so even if there was the tiniest chance of HF being present, you would be protected."
We used hydroflouric acid to test for Potassic alteration in diamond drill core. Potassic alteration (K-feldspar) being, in this case, an indication of Cu mineralization.... When being trained for this we were warned sternly of the dangers (delayed pain response, creeping into bone/tissue, etc) Long elbow length (thick rubber) gloves were worn. Only ever did this on one job, 20 years ago under field conditions, remember thinking the process seemed risky!
I googled "burnt viton seals", straight from Tones' warning...the AI reply is pretty clear and ominous: Burnt Viton (FKM) seals indicate extreme overheating, turning them charred, sticky, and potentially dangerous due to decomposition, which can release toxic hydrogen fluoride (HF) gas, requiring special handling with gloves and fresh air, as Viton, known for high heat and chemical resistance, fails under excessive fire conditions, necessitating careful removal and medical attention if fumes are inhaled or skin contact occurs. Why Viton Burns High Heat Failure : While Viton is excellent for high temperatures (up to 450°F/232°C or more), extreme fire or temperatures beyond its rating cause it to decompose, not just melt, releasing harmful byproducts. Decomposition Products : Burning Viton releases hydrogen fluoride (HF), a corrosive and toxic gas that irritates the respiratory tract, requiring immediate fresh air. Dangers & Handling Toxic Fumes : Inhalation of fumes from burnt Viton is hazardous. Skin Contact : Hot, decomposed polymer can stick to skin; cool rapidly with water and avoid peeling it off. Safety Measures : Wear gloves when handling, move to fresh air immediately, and seek medical attention if symptoms appear. Symptoms of a Burnt Seal Physical State : Charred, brittle, or sticky/gooey appearance. Odor : May have a pungent, acrid smell from decomposition. When to Use Viton (and When Not To) Ideal For : Engine gaskets, aerospace, fuels, oils, strong acids, and high heat. Not For : Extreme fire/flame exposure where decomposition is a risk. In summary, a burnt Viton seal is a sign of severe overheating, creating a toxic hazard that demands caution and proper safety protocols for removal and cleanup..
The other fire related poison substance is Carbon Tetracholride. It was put in those glass fire extinguishers that were put in basements with a melting fuse and a hammer device that would break off the end of the bulb. You could also remove them and throw them at the fire like a grenade. They also produced the first portable extinguishers like this one. Carbon Tet is a very interesting molecule. Because of it's non polar nature, it dissolves fats and oils, and just goes blazing through the skin barrier and heads into the liver to do serious damage. It also causes nerve damage. When you used it to combat a fire, it can emit phosgene gas. What a wonderful side benefit!
Our local lumberyard/hardware store had some of those still on the shelf as recently as a couple years ago. These were just little red glass balls with the liquid in them that you throw into a fire, packaging looked very old, probably from the 1950s.
I was around a lot of hydrofluoric acid (HF) when I was in manufacturing of computer chips. We used it to etch glass, dissolve silicone oxides (quartz), etc.. It's a very common chemical for us but I agree it was a nasty one and we took a lot of precautions when using it. If we spilled any on ourselves, we were instructed to immerse the body part (if possible) in milk while enroute to hospital. Or make a paste of anti-acid tablets and smear it on the body part. No joke. The fluorine ion's in HF are fat-soluble and quickly go through your skin to attack calcium and magnesium (your bones) so the best way to reverse it was to offer the flourine another, easier source of calcium. Thus the milk or anti-acid tablets (main ingredient calcium carbonate) would help suck out the flourine while you were going in for treatment. How does that help removing a burnt out hoe? No idea but figured it was interesting enough to post.
LCA, making people aware of the possibility of serious injury and consequences is always helpful. That's why I posted about this originally and it's better reading than reading a tale of woe or an obituary.
Been thinking about this hi-jacked part of this thread. To the moderaters or administrators, is there anyway you folk can move this part of the thread to Safety Issues so it's easily found for future reference? Thanks in advance