Hi - i bought a 1990 Case 580k last fall and floated it to my cottage. It started fine and basically all i did was drive it to its winter resting place. 2 weeks after that i went back up to the cottage and it wouldn't start. It was cold and i didn't have my tools with me so i just wrapped it up for the winter. I'll be heading back there in the next couple of weeks and wanted to get some advice on things i should try to get it to start. I believe (but not 100% sure) that there is a primer or pump on the machine that i can use to help start it. Does anyone know if this is in fact true and where the location of the primer pump is? Failing that i've heard of a product called "liquid start" or something like that which is essentially ethenol in a can that you can spray into the carb. Any other suggestions would also be appreciated..... Thx Ron
If there is a primer pump, it should be a lever on the transfer pump, (check your old post for the picture from Bill on the Hill). If there's no primer pump, you just need to crank the engine to make the transfer pump work, or put a little air pressure in the fuel tank. If you need to use a transfer pump to start it then you have a leak somewhere. You're trying to get fuel to the injection pump, to do that you have to let the air out the bleeder screws, you're done when the fuel comes out without air bubbles. From your earlier posts I see this thing was turning over strong but not firing. If you get white smoke (fuel mist) out the exhaust while you're cranking then it's getting fuel, and it's (most likely) just too cold, or not getting enough compression. If there's no sign of smoke, then check that the injection pump is getting power, then go back to priming the fuel system/ bleeding the air out. Starting fluid (ether) will help a lot to get it started, but that's not something you want to do if you don't have to. If you are going to use ether, be sure there aren't glow plugs or intake heater. Its best to spray a little shot while the engine is cranking, wait a few seconds if it doesn't catch, and spray a tad more. If it catches but dies, you can give it short shots to keep it going, but that really shouldn't be needed unless you have bigger fuel issues.
Heres a thread that may help
Rdavidson39, If the temperature was -5 C or colder, it did not start because it was just too cold. It's a diesel. You would need to warm the motor first buy pluging in your block heater for one hour or more or by spraying ether in the intake. There may be nothing wrong with your machine. Warming your engine first is a much better idea than using ether.
Thanks Guys, Delmer - you think if there is a primer it would be on (or near) the transfer pump? What is the best way to bleed out the air? Ron
Yes, if there is a priming pump it would most likely be on the transfer pump (it's usually a lever that operates the transfer pump). Some machines have a rubber bellows that you push, and some have a plastic bellows that covers a steel "thumbwheel" that unscrews, pops up and you pump that, then push it back down and screw it in. Those are more common on older/foreign machines, if you have one it's probably a lever on the transfer pump. Anybody know for sure??? The best way is to operate the pump (by hand with primer, or crank a few seconds) then bleed the air starting at the filters and working your way through the pump in order. If you don't know the order to bleed the screws on the pump, just go with the one on top until you don't get any more air bubbles.
Thx Delmer. I've located some pictures of my engine. Can anyone see/locate a primer pump in any of these ? Thx Ron
The black thing behind/to the right of the oil fill plug is the transfer pump, if there's a priming pump, it's a lever on the bottom of that, can't see the bottom of the pump from those pics. The priming pump is not critical. It will prime quickly without it, and if you have some other blockage/leak then priming won't solve those issues.
Here ya go Ron, There is a lever at the lift/priming pump. If the lever feels like it is doing nothing, you will need to give the engine a short little kick with the starter as it may be 'on cam'. Loosen primer #1(10mm req) - Use the priming lever at the pump, this fills the filters, when no air is left, close screw & move to #2.(8mm req) With ign ON prime till no air & close screw. Next move to injectors, (17mm req) loosen the pipes & crank engine till fuel is squirting. Close injector pipes & now start engine. NOTE - this model is supposed to have an inline filter between the lift pump & fuel tank. It is usually located under the machine alongside the chassis/ frame. These often give trouble & will cause fuel starvation problems - best to replace & not eliminate them. I don't think it can be explained simpler than this, but if you have anymore questions, we are here to help as we have nothing better to do ATM ... ..... I gotta get a life..... :drinkup
ALRMAN, thats a very nice description for bleeding the fuel system, as i didnt know that the second bleeder screw needed to be opened with the ignition on! makes sense because of the fuel shut off solenoid though. also agree that the inline filter should be replaced, if its not there than put one in as the previous owner of our hoe pulled this filter out and it ended up ruining the prime pump...
Alrman (and others) - thanks for the information - i really appreciate you taking the time to label my picture - it makes it cyrstal clear for newbie like me to find my way around the engine. I feel good now heading up north now with a solid plan of attack to get her started.... Ron
Thinking some more i have a couple more newb question. First, if i were to use the "Ethanol in a can" method (if the priming and bleeding didn't work), where (exactly) do i spray the ethanol into? And 2nd question - i take it i should have 1 person cranking the engine while someone else fires short burst of ethanol into the intake? Asking as i don't want to set fire or cause damange to my engine. I've heard you have to be careful with the ethanol starter fluid on any engine I've attached an additional picture of the engine. It will probably be obvious when i'm standing over the engine but its a 3 hour drive away so if anyone can point it out that would be great...
Give it a spray in the air cleaner opening behind the muffler. It has that round plate with a hole in the middle.Small amounts is all it should take.
Been reading through this post. Noted the aversion to using ethanol for starting. My priming pump on 580K is broken - handle just moves without resistance. And the hoe will often sit for weeks without starting, so it would just crank and wear down the battery. I started using a short 1 second spray of ethanol in the intake at the air cleaner opening, then cranking - and it would start right up. Didn't think that it could be harming the engine. Am I causing potential problems to the engine by starting this way? Thanks
John> the reason OR most likely reason you have to give it "a squirt" IS the lift pump is broken and the injection pump has to spin fast enough to draw the fuel from the fuel tank to start the engine.. Your wearing out the injection pump...MUCH CHEAPER to get a new lift pump.. 45-80.00 verus 450-700.00 for an inj. pump. and dont get me started on the cost of an engine overhaul because of "broken rings" from useing "a starting aid"... Just get your engine model, PROBABLY a 4-3.9 and "floogle" lift pump..lots of choices..
Wow, good that I asked the question. I looked through the service manual and there's not instructions that I could find to check to see if the lift pump is operating at all. As you say, it's a relatively cheap replacement, so I'll just do it. Coleman's list them for $40, plus gasket. Since the 580K does have an ether "cold start" option, and instructions for using ether to start in the operators manual, what does it do that damages the engine - and why would CASE include that option? Thanks for potentially saving me a ring job.
It's easy to check to see if the lift pump is moving fuel just loosen the output line and spin the engine. Just a little side thought...starting fluid is not ethanol. It is diethyl ether. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethyl_ether
Fair point Mitch. I seem to have used the wrong term. The consensus still seems to be that not using starting fluid is the best option. Which is why I'm confused on what impact it has to the engine. I'll have to check the pump. Will probably replace it anyhow, so I'll have a working primer pump. Thanks,
When a manufacturer puts an ether starting aid on a machine, it can be activated only when the starter is engaged and it injects a smaller amount than a can. You can do the same thing with a little ingenuity and a can, but who wants only a LITTLE hit of crack? Personally I have no idea if people who's lives are going down the toilet start taking more crack, or if taking more crack makes your life go down the toilet... er uh... just fix your engine, and wear clean underwear~
I know I'm going to be in the minority here, but I have used a great deal of ether over the years, both when it's cold, and also, (whispering) as an aid to bleeding or diagnosing an engine . I've not seen any damage from careful use. I very much agree that if you are having to use it constantly, you should fix the problem, but, maybe, the problem is an engine on it's last legs, and maybe that's a good way to get another year or two before rebuild or replacement. Oh, and John, I wasn't picking on you about the ethanol, I saw it used a couple of times in this thread and thought I'd point it out for general interest. Good Luck, Mitch
Just to update everyone - went up last weekend and followed Arlman's directions and she started up and ran fine. Thanks everyone for their posts. Now onto to the next problem which is wrt hydraulic fluid level but i'll start another thread for that one
Hi, I'm new to diesels and the Case 580K in particular. The one I work on would not start (bad batteries/starter) and after a fuel filter/water seperator change. I went nuts until I saw your post. Bled the system, and she purrs like a kitten. Many thanks.