I'm certainly no expert with hydraulics but I have resealed several cylinders over the years. Is anyone familiar with this style? I got the gland loose without any trouble and it turned about half a turn and then started getting tight again. I was able to turn it about one full turn, but now it won't spin easily either direction. Seems like it must have a set screw or retainer of some sort but I can't find it.
Sometimes there will be a set screw in the barrel that has to be removed. I've seen them with a double screw, one set screw put in to lock agains the threads of the gland and another put on top of the first to lock that screw in place. It was also common that the set screws against the threads on the gland would damage those threads and you would have the problems that you have. Sometimes paint would hide the screw and we would take a flap wheel on the die grinder to the cylinder to make sure there was or wasn't a screw hole. I've also seen where damage inside the cylinder would make some garbage that would settle against the threads for the gland and get carried in when the gland was unscrewed. The big question now is what do you do that the gland is effectively stuck? I would likely make sure about the set screw issue. If there is none then the only thing you can do is work the gland both ways using whatever it takes to first lock the cylinder down and next grab the gland and turn it. The damage on the gland can be dress usually. The cylinder threads are a whole different bag of worms. That likely could require the services at a hydraulic shop and even replacement of the barrel.
i would clean up all the pipe wrench marks with a flapper disk. Then either using dye check or an eye loupe, to look for a missed set screw, because if there isn’t one, this could turn out bad quick. Hopefully it doesn’t have galled threads. Whats it on and have you checked other cylinders for set screws?
Set screws on threads? Wow, talk about idiocy, I've seen that on supposed accurate machine tool accessories as well, how stupid can anyone be? I would always use a small brass pin under said screw to not deform the threads. And instead of a set screw a small 2 screw lock plate makes more sense, sorta like the screws on that bracket, but into the cylinder and the cap(left side, lower pic). Too bad as that cylinder is typical of what a bad design looks like. If you get it off, I'd be either making a new cap or cutting a hex on that one.
Thanks for your reply. I cannot find any evidence of a set screw. I am afraid that it is due to internal damage - the reason I'm trying to disassemble it is because there is internal leakage (just over a year after NH Hydraulics replaced the rod and seals). It felt like galled threads at first, but after reading your post I thought about it some more and realized that this cylinder almost always is in the vertical position that would cause any internal debris to settle on the gland. It's still installed on the machine so I lifted the arm up vertical so the cylinder is essentially upside down and wiggled it around a bit. Then I brought it back down and was able to turn the gland more freely before binding up again. I did this a couple times and it seems to help a little each time, though it's quite tedious. My thought now is to remove the cylinder from the machine and somehow fix it in the vertical position with the gland up, and use my air hammer to vibrate it while trying to turn the gland. Hopefully this will help any debris fall down away from the threads.
The pipe wrench marks are on the gland, not the barrel, so I don't think there could be a set screw on the gland. At least, I don't understand how it would work if there was. It's the arm cylinder on my Mecalac and I've looked at the other cylinders and can't find any set screws on them either.
I don't think there are set screws on this cylinder, but at the time I couldn't think of any other reason why it would turn freely and then get tight. But John's explanation of debris seems most logical to me, especially since it seems better after wiggling it around upside down.
In your second picture, is there a bolt on the left side of the barrel just above the gland? That could be a set bolt. Were there any scratches on the rod before you turned the gland? Is the rod 100% straight? I think removing it from the machine is better to avoid any bending of the rod or barrel. I would add penetration oil to the thread before turning to avoid damage. And think about placing it horizontal While supporting the rod
Here is what I mean
Very nice repurpose of a production drill table. Even has a coolant trough to catch the oil. I like the entire bench with forklift pockets, and the Bessy clamp as well. What is holding up the other end of the strap?
Remember when dealing with set screws.....they sometimes travel in pairs. IE, you unscrew a short one, look down inside, there might be it's mate underneath. Sort of a locking scheme going on. Maybe not on cylinders, but have seen it on shafts for pulley retaining.
If there is no setscrew, and it's simply a threaded gland, the last thing you want to do is gall those threads. Typically there's an o-ring that keeps water from getting into those threads, but I have seen cylinders that don't have that o-ring which causes water to rust things together. I'd start peening the cylinder, all the way around the circumference of the barrel. I don't mean beat the hell out of it with a hammer, just peening blows. This gently presses the steel which causes it to just slightly expand, sometimes just enough to break the thread connection. I've taken apart many stuck cylinders doing that.
A bit of heat, not to crazy though. 220 degrees F or a smitch over would be fine the system likely runs at that. 250 shouldn't hurt a thing either????
A vice turned 90 degrees , but a forged one not cast iron
Ah you asked about the strap. An electric hoist from above
Not a bolt, it's a mounting plate for securing the hydraulic tube. There are some minor scratches but nothing significant and the rod is straight as far as I can tell. I do plan to remove it from the machine, and try to somehow secure it in the vertical position with the gland up so the internal debris that seems to be jamming the threads can fall away. I will try adding oil to the small area that is exposed. Nice looking shop you have.
I don't think there is any rust on the threads because it turned freely initially, and turns easily after shaking it around in the opposite orientation. And yes I did try peening the barrel a bit but it didn't help.
Tried that and it didn't help. This isn't the standard stuck gland scenario because it did turn easily at first.
Thanks! If I had to do that I would remove the two bolts on the left. the first easy turn indicates that something stops the turn by a hard stop. when you turn do you feel a sudden stop point or does it feel like thread getting tight? think about fixing horizontal , then you don't have to work against the own weight of the gland and the rod. also support the rod carefully that it is balanced. the vertical setting works like a mill in the thread with all the debris. not a good option
Those aren't bolts, it is a plate with threaded "nuts" welded to it that bolts go into to clamp the tubing to the cylinder barrel. I'll try to get a better picture later. It feels like the threads get tight I guess. I'm just going to have it mounted vertically until I'm able to get the gland removed, then I'll probably put it horizontal to pull it apart. If I mount it vertically and vibrate it while working the gland back and forth, the debris should theoretically fall away into the barrel. If it's horizontal, the debris will be stuck in the threads and have no where to go.
Ok I get what you mean with the nuts. Think about the surface of the barrel, it seals with the rod seal .scratches in the barrel are worse than a worn out thread. The gland seals normally with an O-ring. Is the other end of the Rod free or fixed in any way? Should be free. And another question: could you turn the rod freely by hand with not too much force ? what kind of machine is it? A wood splitter? Is the rod at the end of the travel when you turn the gland ? somewhere before the end is better.
More heat then and looks like anyother bulldozing job, LOL that means more brute force. Ruined the threads?, on a lathe can be fixed or rethreaded. And either make a new gland nut as yall call it or try to hex cut that one. And just normal mechanicing, some times things have to get broke or ruined to take them apart.
I'm not the best a fixing things, but I am pretty good at taking them a part. If the threads are getting jammed with debris like you think, there is a very good chance the barrel is junk from FOD. Slitting either side of the threaded section of the barrel with a wafer disc and spliting it with a chisel will get things apart. That should allow you to salvage the rod and gland. Then a different hydraulic shop can rebarrel it. Hopefully the piston survives.
Finally got it apart after building a "vertical cylinder bench" and a wrench that fits the gland.
It's obvious why it was bypassing, but I have no idea why this seal failed so quickly. Thankfully it wasn't actually the threads that galled Looks like they forgot to install the outer o-ring. I wonder if that somehow contributed to it galling.
That's pretty messy. Did you find the the ball that was doing the damage? I'm thinking that there should have been a backup ring on that O ring on the gland. I've seen some cylinders that had dieseling going on to destroy the piston packing like that. Have you pulled the hydraulic return filters yet?
Pardon my ignorance, do you mean an actual ball that somehow got in there, or just some metal that got balled up from the galling process? What do you think caused it to gall? I think the kit they sent me included 2 o-rings and a backup ring. Maybe I will call them and ask why they didn't install them in the first place. Can you explain what you mean by dieseling? And what causes it? I have not yet pulled the return filter but I imagine it has lots of pieces of blue seal material in it...
Could be a non OEM seal installed before? have looked inside the barrel for scratches or damage? Nice BMW E28 in the background, which model ?
Yes I'm sure the repair shop didn't use OEM seals but I would still expect an aftermarket seal to last more than a year. I have not yet cleaned and inspected everything but an initial look at the inside of the barrel does not show any damage below the galled area. Thanks. It's a 535i. It's parked in the shop there because it died on us last weekend. The distributor is the suspect because it's getting spark from the coil but not at the plugs.
Ok less than one year Is really bad.much chips compared to the quite good looking thread. Didn't they clean it properly before reinstall the seals? the groove for the oring looks bad. Hopefully you get it sealed there. Concerning the BMW, always good to see old cars keep going. Distributer cap and finger is not a big issue I think. Which year 1986?
NH Hydraulics, give them a call but don’t expect anything. Curious, did you give them the whole cylinder last time or just the piston and the rod? They are very low on my list, or at least they used to be. After being in business 40 years or so, I would have thought they would know their business by now.
The root cause is trapped air in the cylinder. Air and oil in close proximity can cause a mini-explosion when subject to high pressures and in doing so it mimics the operation of a diesel engine, hence the term dieseling. Piston seals are usually the first component to suffer the effects.
What can be done to avoid this effect? After revealing I normally operate the cylinder the full stoke a few times. What else can be done to bleed the air out of the system?
The best suggestion I ever saw for bleeding an empty cylinder after installation on a machine was first to assemble the cylinder with the piston at approximately mid-stroke. Then after installation to only move the cylinder a short distance each side of the mid point with the engine at low idle speed. After each cycle extend the cylinder a hair more until it extends full stroke. Depending on the stroke this could require a dozen or more cycles. Never hold the hydraulics over relief when the piston reaches the end of the stroke while doing the bleeding process. At that point connect whatever linkage the cylinder operates.
You mean connecting the barrel with the machine, bleed it as described and then after bleeding connecting to rod to the machine
Correct.
When you compress air, it gets hot. A diesel engine may have a compression ratio of 15:1 to 20:1. A hydraulic cylinder, if the piston is started at one end, could have a compression ratio over 50:1. Now after reaching full stroke compressing air, reverse the controls and the oil will come flooding in under pressure, creating a fine mist just like the injectors in an engine. And Pop goes your seals.
Nice work on building the tooling and hold to remove the gland. That is an impressive solution. Your statement that the gland froze up as soon as you started turning it and the consistent size of that depression in the gland and the matching depression in the barrel is why I'm thinking of some kind of ball. Something like a bearing ball. I'm thinking the galling happened as you were able to unscrew the gland. What is bothering me is that the depressions are above the gland seal O ring and the matching surface on the cylinder. How could something like that get there? The only thing that makes sense to me right now is that the piston hit something and forced it up there when the cylinder was fully extended. Are there any marks on the top of the piston. Nige's description is right on. The only thing I might add is that when clearing the air from the cylinder, I would always remove the cap from the hydraulic reservoir in order for the air to clear the system to the atmosphere. I think the cylinder failure might be a symptom of other possible issues. Have you had any problems with any other function on the machine? I would suggest that at a minimum your remove the hoses and blow a pig through them and the tubing to make sure any more debris is cleared out.
Don't know if they cleaned it properly or not. Apparently this shop doesn't have a good reputation. I repaired the groove and galled areas as best as I could. The kit they sent does include a backup ring so I will be adding that as well. The odd thing is, they sent two o-rings for the thread seal position and didn't include the one for the gland (or head? Or whatever the proper term is). Not impressed with this outfit. Hopefully I can figure out the BMW. I don't have a lot of experience working on gasoline engines. 1987.
They took the whole cylinder. Why didn't you warn me beforehand? Haha
Thanks for the explanation of dieseling and how to properly bleed the air. I'm sure I didn't do it that well when I installed it after it was repaired. I probably cycled it slowly a few times in each direction before going full stroke. And I think I had already connected both ends to the machine. I will be much more careful from now on.
My preferred method for bleeding air from cylinders, whenever possible, is to have the cylinder fully retracted, minimal space for air on the barrel side of the piston, and pin the barrel end of the cylinder to the machine. Of course I always have the hoses plugged with proper steel plugs. Then I connect the hose to the barrel side of the cylinder and make sure the fitting port is open on the rod side of the piston, but keep the hose for the rod side plugged. Start the machine and at idle, extend the cylinder, which fills the barrel side of the piston with oil and purges air from the rod side. Once it's fully extended, stop. Now connect the hose to the rod side. Start the engine at idle and cycle the cylinder a few more times, then pin off the rod to the machine. In some cases you can't do this process, that's when I'd use the method Nige suggested.
I can't take credit for the wrench design. I "borrowed" it from @AU.CASE in his thread: HeavyEquipmentForums To clarify, the gland turned about a quarter turn easily before it got tight the first time. I never did find any sort of ball. But I did find what looked like a dent inside the barrel just past the threads and it looked like someone might have tried to grind it flush but possibly left a little bit of a bump. Then maybe when they assembled it, the gland tightened against the bump and when I tried to remove it, it started collecting metal like a snowball rolling down a hill in sticky snow. The top of the piston looks fine: Anyway, I got it cleaned up ok I think. No more high spots anyway. None of the other functions drift or leak down like this one. It does seem to have somewhat sticky pilot valves, and I've been dealing with contaminated fluid. I discovered milky looking fluid and have changed it 3 times since. I thought it was from water getting in through the tank cover but I've fixed that and it seems to be ongoing, or maybe just needs more changes to fully clear up. I can't think of how else it would be getting water in it.
That is very odd. That, whatever you call it, happened between what appears to be clean threads and the gland seal o-ring. I have neve seen that before. WTH???
After the cleaning I think it looks better now. Did you buy the seals this time from the same company who did the resealing the last time? If it is quality issue you do not solve the problem. I don't know what was the price but when it was not too much I would look for other seals. Do you have a drawing to see where which oring or seal is located. https://www.tvh.com/en-us sometimes I order here they have 2 qualities of seal packages cheap ones and oem. Normally I order OEM. You could also ask them for a drawing, often they have something. Skf and Freudenberg produce also good quality seals but then you have to have all the measurements
With gasoline engines it is the same with me. But 25 years ago I changed the distributor cap and finger on my dad's E34 with almost the same engine as yours. Inside the cap the should be a Bosch number
Were you going to remove the piston and gland from the rod? There are seals in there also.
Exactly. Just my luck with equipment.
So what is the deal? Looks like a large chunk of metal or ? Got in there to cause that gouging? Did you find it? That is very strange, since it had to go past the O ring, so did someone put some chunks of carbide tooling in the hose port at some time?
Yes I ordered the seal kit from them because I had no other way to find out what seals I needed without disassembling and ordering by measurements which would have meant a lot of downtime (which wouldn't be so bad except that my other machine has been at the dealer for over a month). Turns out the seal kit they sent was missing some seals and included some wrong seals. So now I'm no better off than if I had just ordered them myself. It turns out that NH hydraulics had a delivery driver in the area today so he stopped by and picked up the seal kit and the piston and gland so they can get the correct seals for me. I requested a PTFE piston seal instead of the urethane seal that they installed. I don't have a drawing for this. I did call the dealer and they have a seal kit for $461. When I do my own repairs I usually buy from Hercules. I'll have to check out TVH at some point. Thanks.
Cool, thanks.
Yes I did. The seal kit had some incorrect and missing items for those as well, though I didn't see any issues with what was in there.
I couldn't find anything that caused it.
I would change both cause the contracts look burned.check the shaft where the finger comes. The shaft should not tip to the side too much. Don't hold the spark plug too often to the block, I'm not sure if that's good for the electronic motor management
Before disassembling the distributor read how to reinstall and set it correctly. Especially in interaction with electronic motor management
Only disassemble it when the bearing of the shaft is really bad
I believe I said my piece about that crew 4 or 5 years ago, minimum. Curtis Hydraulics in Hooksett NH, is the best there is. Only problem is, they are always busy and they get all the money but they do the job and have any tooling possible, for what you would ever need. They have a pump bench test also. The other place, came on the scene 40 something years ago and had a real Humvee and a Duece and a half as advertising and their schtick. They did the fake it till you make process and I would have thought it would have worked by now?
I guess I missed it! Is the other place Elite Hydraulics?
I have had stuff rebuilt at NH Hydraulics, Curtis Hydraulics and Elite Hydraulics. I don’t have anything bad to say about the work NH hydraulics did (simple cylinder rebuild). Elite Hydraulics was successful with a more complicated repair, a swivel joint rebuild with the reaction rod broken off flush in the outer casing. Curtis Hydraulics has been excellent- they are always helpful no matter how big or small your request. Their place isn’t much to look at but they do great work, have tons of stuff in stock, and I always seem to deal with the owner who’s happy to help. For those reasons Curtis is my go-to.
Any thoughts on PTFE vs urethane seals? They are telling me that PTFE is not available for this, which I find hard to believe.
I find that hard to believe also.
I would prefer pfte. But i suppose the seals are metric ones. Did you measure the rod diameter? Look for skf and freudenberg both have companies in the us
Yes they are all metric. I have an account with Hercules and found a PTFE seal with all the same dimensions except 0.2mm narrower. Would that make a difference?
.2mm is .007” so a blond hair. I would try it but call Bill at Curtis Hydraulics to make sure.
SKF www.skf.com This is an example of a seal. Check the data sheet there is mentioned +0.2mm but I don't know if rod 60 means seal inner diameter means then 59.8mm to get it sealed . There are also different geometry for the seals. try to get a shop which distributes the seals not the repair of the cylinder . Ask them for advice to order the correct seals. Skf also has the opportunity to produce seals customized seals. My shop where I buy the seals has basically a cycle lathe programmed with the different geometries. This is what I would ask for
https://ph.parker.com/us/en/divisions/division-fluid-systems-division-page/series/rod-seals Maybe you have more shops from Parker in the US
The new Fahrzeug parts showed up the other day. I went with Bremi parts. They seem decent quality and come with stainless steel fasteners which is a bonus.
Well I guess that wasn't the problem. Still won't run...
Actually as I said already my knowledge with gasoline engines is limited . Just some thoughts: cables to the spark plugs, how do the ends look like? Green? Do do get fuel? Starter spins at normal speed? how the the engine stop working? During driving? No start in the morning? worst case is electronics then you have to look for a manual to get information about troubleshooting
When you try to start after cranking some seconds remove the spark plug and see or smell if there is fuel in the holes or down in the cylinder
i don't know much abut bmw, but; is there power to the coil? is the crankshaft sensor good? you could test this with a spare spark plug and a helper to turn the key while you watch. is the fuel pump relay working? is the fuel pump bad? you might be able to hear it when you turn the key on. you could see if it starts with a little propane.
French built excavators, and german cars. I thought I had problems.
It's the same people telling me here with my 3 Japanese and one Spanish forklifts
I just googled e28 535 does not start in German. The first thing which came was this Motor E28 535i sprang nicht an - Problem gefunden aber wie reparieren ? Nachdem mein E28 M535i wegen Corona, Reisen usw., fast ein Jahr in der trockenen Garage stand wollte ich ihn heute zum Leben erwecken doch er sprang leider nicht an, bzw. sprang an aber ging gleich wieder aus. Da die Tankanzeige fast bei null war habe ich 5 Liter Benzin nachgefüllt, aber... www.motor-talk.de The guy is basically saying when i push on the box in the first picture with my hand the engine runs. Check that and translate it via Google translate. If there are questions or problems with the translation please ask
I need a life coach to help me not make bad decisions!
Thanks for all the ideas. I do have a Bentley service manual for the car which I should have started with. Anyway it has troubleshooting procedures which include most of the things you guys suggested. I'll report back with the results whenever I get a chance to work on it...
Ohh I'm your guy. $899 / month and I can get you pointed in a new direction. First month is free. First life coach message: "Don't send craneoperator money" See- I'm already turning your life around. You should sign up.
Update on the Big Money Waster. I followed the manual and did the check to see if the main relay was functional and then did the ohm test for the reference sensor. Both checked out so after a little more research I swapped the fuel pump relay with a different one and it started right up. I guess I'll keep one in the glovebox as a spare.
Update on the cylinder. After calling NH hydraulics and telling them about the missing and wrong seals, they came and picked up the piston and gland and seal kit so they could get measurements and get the correct seals. The next day, the guy working on it called me and said he was surprised at how badly damaged the piston seal was and wanted to inspect the barrel so he could see if there was anything wrong with it that would cause the failure. So the driver came back the next day (last Thursday, a week ago today) and picked up the rest of the parts of the cylinder. I didn't hear anything from them Friday, so on Monday I called to see what was going on. He said he hadn't gotten a chance to look at it yet but would call me and let me know what he found. Still nothing, so I called Wednesday and they told me he had gone home sick Wednesday morning but they had someone else look into it and he said it looked like some new seals had come in for my cylinder but he wasn't sure what was what so wanted to wait for the original guy to come back and said he would have him call me when he got in. So I'm hoping to get a call from him today saying that he has the correct seals and they are sending it back to me. If he has not gotten a better piston seal than the one they originally installed, I'm planning to go pick up my cylinder from them and get a seal kit from the dealer.
Mater that place on the cylinder as others have stated is in a odd spot. As in welding close and it might have arced and then on disassemble it tore, or a warp or high spot. Did you try screwing the head into the barrel all the way with no seals or rod installed?
I sure hope they didn't weld it with it assembled. Yes after cleaning it up I tested it and it threads all the way in by hand with no seals.
I was meaning has any one done any welding on the machine that could have arced these parts, or has the machine came into any contact with power lines
Oh I see. No power lines and the only welding I've done is on parts that I've removed from the machine.
NH hydraulics - wow. Just wow. The level of basic incompetence is unbelievable. Maybe I'm just the unlucky one, but I cannot believe how much time I wasted giving them a second and third chance. I picked up the cylinder and parts from them on Friday and even after making an itemized list with the correct sizes and showing which ones were incorrect or missing, they still couldn't get it right. The good thing is they finally gave me a PTFE piston seal, but I had to reuse the rod o-ring and backup rings inside the piston, and reuse one of the wear rings in the gland, and use a too-small o-ring stretched to fit the outside of the gland for sealing the threads. I sure hope I don't have any problems with this cylinder now.
Sometimes, just getting the factory seal kit, ends up being cheaper in the long run. I wouldn't reuse any old seals/orings. I have reused a wear band when I couldn't get one. It's no fun to immediately have to redo it, or even just worry about it holding.
Why couldn't you go to a seal house and match the seals and O-rings that were wrong? Some aftermarket seals are good but on certain machines it's best to go with an OEM seal kit especially on a machine that isn't too common. It sounds like NH hydraulics doesn't have a clue what they're doing.
If I had known they would string me along for two weeks I definitely would have gotten the seal kit from the dealer. I really had no choice but to reuse what I did this time. I really can't afford having both excavators down any longer. But I get what you're saying. It's definitely not my preference to reuse them.
For me to understand what did they charge you for this half or 3rd seal kit? when you use a too small o-ring on the outside of the glad I would assume it simply doesn't seal. Or is the the profile of the o-ring thicker than the old one?
They didn't charge anything for correcting the wrong seals. I'm hoping the o-ring will seal. It's not a lot smaller, and now it does have a backup ring which they had left out when they worked on the cylinder in 2025.
That's okay, I hope the best
Thanks.
It went together nicely. I was able to hand thread it until the last turn or so. Now I'm bleeding it per @Nige 's process. I've been going very slowly and pausing for a minute after every few partial cycles. I don't want to chance ruining the new seals.
Dave, it’s not like we have seal houses all around. Can’t actually think of one nearby that I know about. Should have left NH Hydraulics and on the way back stopped at Curtis Hydraulics in Hooksett. Bill would of helpful, he also used to have a place that could make the seals, right down the road but not sure that is still available. As for NH Hydraulics, had same service from them 30 something years ago and never gave them another chance. I do know they used to sub out the hard stuff, to Bill and then mark up the bill.
Yes I should have, but it looked like everything was there when I looked through the box, turns out they gave me 5 of the gland thread seal o-ring and 0 of the gland o-ring.
So far no leaks or drifting
I would think most major cities would have a seal shop. Even a couple hours away is worth the drive to get the right seals.
Believe it or not, we just don’t have a lot of specialty shops like that around anymore. Not sure why. We have a few good Hydraulic shops and a couple of good radiator shops. The advent of throw away parts and maybe companies like Amazon, have just killed all that kind of stuff. We have decent dealers around here but in reality, it’s hard to find places that actually fix stuff anymore.
Diesel machine shops are disappearing , good ones retiring say they cant find help, bad ones going out of business because they hire the ones that the good shops wouldn't. Same with hyd. shops.
We are on the same way, many closed over the years but there are still enough available. The question is what happens when the guys in their late 50ies now retire. There are almost no young guys starting in technical professions
I had a 84 528e and one day I turned the high beams on and the car died. 2 weeks later with new crank sensors and ignition parts it randomly zapped me checking for spark and then when reassembled fired right up. After that any time I hit the high beams it would die and 24hrs later it would crank and run fine until you hit the highs again. Never figured it out, just stopped using high beams.