Hey, it seems I'm joining the right forums. Didn't think Hough HA's and H25's and 25B's were still out there, wow I couldn't be happier. Paid a mere 500$ for mine and she runs like a top. The concerning thing is she ran for 3-5 min before we realised there was only a cup of oil in the engine. She sings her own special tone of base at varying rpms since that oversight. Found a source for gaskets so in near future she'll take a little nap in the shop while her engine gets whatever parts I can scrownge up. I've gone through the tie rods and turnbuckle and one drive hub/brake assembly. Currently cleaning out the hydraulic resevoir and custom building oil strainer for the later. And exploring the torque converter by using a micro videocamera, its all fun to me so far. Got some questions to; not sure if she is HA or H25? The Waukesha FC is a feb-march 1963- I found partially ledgible trans tag and another tag which was buried in the years of grime down on the frame. It was riveted somewhere originally but where? Maybe it's not even for this machine.
some pictures of tags from my hough hope these help identify what model she is.The first is the mystery tag. The second is the transmission tag. The bottom is the engine tag.
more pictures of the hough Some changes you may see from the original are that I cut down the top of bucket for better visibility of the bucket edge, cut the seat frame for more ease of entry/exit, and installed a plastic battery tray from a dodge spirit- that meant more leg room and moving the torque convertor filter. The 1350 numbers on the left side of hood are meaningless to me so fara? Are they significant?
Very fascinating pictures Datsunman! Keep the pictures coming. Sorry to hear about the oil problem in the engine. My opinion of the model designation between the HA and H25 series is as follows: The HA series had a Clutches and manual transmissions (older models) or torque converter/clutches and manual transmissions (newer models) until the H25 series were introduced. I believe H25 series featured a completely hydraulic drive train, overhead valve motors and a more modern body style. I can only speculate that this changeover occurred sometime in the mid 1960’s. If anyone has more specific information about the model designations please post. We would like to create a detailed history on these machines. Ray
i had a b model...completely hydraulic drive. mine had a number stamped on top of the frame just to the right of the seat...it also had a plate with the number on it on the left side behind the transmision control lever if you can get a number off the frame i can tell you the year
the first h25 was introduced in 1958 the ha production appears to have stopped in 1959. mine was the last version before the international 500 payloader replaced the old hough style. if i had to guess id say you have an ha . the h25 had different sheet metal and the loader arms and linkages are different. your hydraulic hoses for the bucket are on the out side of the cylinders where as the h25 had them behind them. also yours has the payloader name casted into the back while the h25 and h25b had it cut out of a sheet metal panel. also the h25b was introduced in 1962 and had the paylomatic tranny...nice machines..im glad theres others out there who are giving them a try . and they dont take up much room. pick up the book "PAYLINE " by Oscar H. Will III it has all the vin numbers in the back and a decent history on most the the hough /international machines...from the tiny h25 to the giant international 580 loader . brian
Awhsome Brian, that info gonna help for sure. I'm gonna look for that PAYLINE book to. I'll post more pics to and today I'll scrape off a little more of the "character"or grime to be specific, and hopefully find that number on the frame you mentioned.
the picture of the first tag is the one that wopuld have the vin number . it should read " THE FRANK G HOUGH CO. " on top and the number would be stamped or printed on the bottom.
There is a stamped in number lower middle of the tag it reads (A-2-4643), could this be the vin #? It is right to the right of SERIAL No. Thanks ,datsunman
Brain, I ordered "Payline" on Saturday from Amazon. It arrived today. I was like a kid at christmas time, I couldn't wait to get the box open. You were right, all of the serial number breakdowns were in the back of the book.:notworthy Great pictures of alot of unique equipment. I've confirmed that my machine was built in 1953. Thanks! Ray
Hello, i have 1961 ha, mine has 4cyl gas wak. With just forward&reverse hi/lo.
got a video out finally Hey, now I finally succeeded at posting a video of my hough on blogspot click on http://craftsman-bycraftsman.blogspot.com/ so you can actually see it moving snow. Bet you have videos of your hough too.
Some fun Payloader facts from the book Payline, The model HA was produced from 1947 to 1970. From 1958 to 1970 both the HA and H25 were availible in the International catolog. Datsunman, I have two videos posted on You Tube of my HA. If I can find someone to hold the camera, I too will post some action shots. But for now this is what I have: First video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvWj0at_pUs Second video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cur053mcKAQ Ray
Hey Ray, those are excellent videos, I'll want to see more especially if the action is digging.,,datsunman
Hough hubs brakes and steering pics I did take some snapshots of the steering and the hubs axel and brakes can you see that I removed the slotted plug from the steering by welding a nut to it after pulling out the rusty cotter pin? I didn't have the right tool so I had to improvise. The hub had some small cracks in the middle. These worry me a bit. I got the book (PayLine) from the local library and it looks like a good research tool. Thanks for that pointer. I also took a few pictures of my hydraulic resevoir filter modification and steering tire retrofit which is a plain trailer wheel with center hole enlarged. Had to grind a slight bit of metal from the spindle yoke to prevent the retro-rim from rubbing.
The steering tire and a bucket modification This is small flap-door that allows me to insert bars through the bucket to make a simple primitive forklift alteration in seconds. There is one on each side. The flaps stay shut whenever moving dirt or sand or snow.
the hough clutch here are some pics of what my hough's clutch release bearing assembly looks like when the access cover is removed from the bell housing. Thinking these will help some of the questions about the clutch/torque converter system used in these HA's.
Hello out there, i have my hough ha. That i would like to sell, runs,drives,hyd-are good,have manual,tire chains,has fac. Cab. Has been sitting for 8 months. $2800.00 thank's auto please call me @ 508-460-0229
i was thinking of buying a h25. what is the load or lift capasity? what kind of jobs will these mini-beast handle?
Nice machines. I just bought a Hough Payloader model H approx 1956-57, but it is not running and I need help with the following: What is the firing order on the 4 cyl gas engine? What is the procedure for setting the timing on it? Thanks
update on my hough HA So I guess it's been a while since I've been here; that is mostly because I'm a dad for the first time and at eight months now he's such a joy to us! So my old hough is not first place as far as my time priorities, probably never was though. I did get some things done since last summer on the hough. The hydraulic filter I retrofited is working great. Replaced a tire (with a typical 16" truck snow tire load range E of course) the old tire had an onimous bulge on the tread. I experimented with cutting out some of the tread lugs on the replacement tire to get more bite in soil. The best trick to cut the tread I found was using an oscilating cutter. Common types are sold under dremmel or bosch brand names but under my budget I settled on a tool shop from Menards. It works soo slick I plan to post picks of how well it works here soon. I'll be back ...:usa
I agree - great videos!!
Hi again, finally ,,, right? I have been way too busy and my hough HA has been busy too. Today I'll be adding a little oil to the hydraulics resevoir, she's getting low enough to draw air now and then especially when cold and cylinders are extended. Back about the time in my postings where I showed pics of the oil filter for the resevoir... I had opt'ed to leave the one-way breather valve out and basically let atmospheric pressure be the case in the resevoir tank. Well it seems to work ok except I had oil spilling out the vent line every time I ran over bumpy ground. So next up, I'll either put the one-way valve in again or rig up a vent line air/oil separator that lets the oil drain back into the resevoir. Over the past few years my HOUGH HA has done a lot of work. Great lil machine!
My young man with old HOUGH iron I love this pic. My boy is always eager to "go see payloader daddy..."
HOUGH + V-plow vs Snow = FUN! I had a wild idea... try a v-plow on the Hough HA. A little rigging with straps and an old heavy pallet between the bucket and the plow and I was plowing! I will definitely plan a real steel link up to build for later use. That would be a "bucket off and plow with special link arms in place" design. The plow is made for another vehicle which I use very successfully for plowing up to 14 inch snows at a time. Its two feet tall 8-1/2 ft wide and yet makes piles of snow better than 3 ft. This temporary rig on the Hough was ok for making 2 ft high piles but I'm sure it could do better if the bucket was off and the plow situated closer to the large wheels.
Very nice! I'm happy to see someone else bringing an old machine back to life. I almost bought a Michigan 12 B that was similar.
Hey GreenMtnMan, Id go find that 12 Michigan, those were rare when new and that was 30+ years ago!
The 12B was on Ebay a year or two ago, in New York state. I spoke to the seller on the phone, someone else ended up buying it.
I just scored this machine today. I believe it's a H-25B, has the fully hydraulic drive train (pump on engine, motor on axle). I still need to get it home, can anyone tell me if this machine will roll once the drive valve is in neutral or is there some other bypass valve? Supposedly it's running and driving, but the battery is dead, just want to be prepared if it doesn't start with a jump.
Most hydrostatic machines will be damaged if they are forced to move that way.
I have a 1960s fully hydraulic drive pay loader, the drive is slipping and will not go up a hill or push into heaps. dose it take normal hydraulic oil? can I put a thicker oil in to see if it will help get more drive? dose anyone know of a quick fix? thanks
This thread gives more detail on the hydraulic transmission. HeavyEquipmentForums Thicker fluid might allow a damaged pump or motor function a little better, with the risk of damaging good components if the thicker oil is run when it is too cold outside.
I got my loader home today. It fired up with a jump start. Here is a video of my first test drive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notIQ3YesX8&feature=youtu.be
I found the tag and got the paint scraped. Looks like I have an H-25 Type G Serial No. 04208 There's some more numbers under the Type G portion of the tag that are 334-202U. Can anyone tell me what year this was made and/or any other information? Thanks, Matt
According to the info here: http://www.dozerpartswarehouse.com/page/420251932 I have a late 1966. Unit seems to work pretty well aside from the bent and leaking steering cylinder. Luckily it appears that the part below is a near match, ordered one up tonight. https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...-Cylinders/2-25-X-9-75-X-0-875-DA-HYD-CYL.axd
Video of my loader piling snow if anyone is interested. Been having problems with steering box freezing up, two tries of pulling bolt out of side near bottom and heating with a heat gun while pouring fluid in the top. Thought I had all the water out but still stiff when cold. Probably won't be able to get it completely drained until summer. The steering shaft and box is odd in that it has a passage from the center of the wheel down through the shaft and out the bottom of the steering box for a horn wire to run. The horn button and wire are long gone so I suspect that is where the water entered when it sat outside several months before I bought it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilsy2t3KxkY
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-for...61215093262&pt=Other_Vehicles_Everything_Else Found this on Ebay thought you guys and gals were either looking for another machine or parts.
H-25B Manuals.
H25B manuals. Have operators manual, parts manual and motor manual. Someone can have for cost of shipping. Worked in the fertilizer business and these were loaders of choice. I have pics but unable to put in post (i still listen to 8 track tapes). Let me know. Thanks.
Hi I Realise this is an old thread but its worth a try. I have just purchased an Hough H25 and am desperate for some information can you help???
Hough H25 Payloader datsunman- Great JOB!!! I just bought one myself in hopes of putting it back to work soon. I passed this thing on my way home for the last 6 years and just finally got a chance to talk to the owner. I worked on it for a couple of hours and got it running and boy does it run great. My concerns are with the hydraulics since even when the engine is running nothing happens. Do the hydraulics only work if the clutch is engaged? It's currently stuck down but I assumed it has live hydraulics but I may be wrong. I'm currently in search of 2 rims for the front drive tires. 7.50 x 16 is apparently obsolete and need to be custom made. I'm hoping to find a retrofit rim that doesn't require the lock ring. Any info you can share would be greatly appreciated.
Hough H25 I have the exact same machine! It's in better shape but I am having trouble finding a rim for the front drive tire. It runs great but I'll have to check to see if the hydro reservoir is empty since the hydro system doesn't respond. I wonder if the clutch has to be engaged since it's currently stuck down. Any ideas or sources for parts?
Hough H25 Thanks for posting this info. I just talked to Tom there and he's looking for the from 16" drive rims for me. Anyone else have any info on where to find replacement rimss for these? I'd rather do away with the split rim but I'll take what I can find. Thanks in advance.
mine is automatic trans
WOW. That thing is in amazing condition. Very nice. I can't post pics yet because I'm new but I'll post what I have when I'm able. Are the hydraulics live or are they only live when the clutch is engaged?
It doesent have a clutch as it is a hydraulic gearbox with a totque converter.
Great Job, datsunman! I have a H25. I just bought it but I can't even get it off the previous owner's property because the drive rim, 7.50 x 16 split rim, rusted though and split the rim into 2 halves. Anyone have any idea as to where I can find one? I'm getting desperate.
Narrow 16" split rims aren't that rare on old pickups. I might have one around somewhere, you'd have to cut out the wheel center though. I think the last ones I rode on were on a Toyota highlux of all things.
H25 Wheel
Great thread. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the older machines. I am looking at a Hough HA that has been sitting for a number of years. The front brakes need to be replaced as well as the clutch. Has anyone tackled a clutch job on one of these? I feel like I can get the machine for $500 but want to touch base before buying an unfixable money pit.
If I end up getting it I want to use it primarily as an off road forklift. Are forklift attachments hard to come by?
hey, Charles. Not a lot of action on this thread in awhile. new hough Ha machine owner here as well, not sure where everyone goes for information on these, I have used this forum to identify and work on my machine. I am currently working on my brakes, trying to get the hydraulics working with some new parts. parts are very far and few between, you have to work to cross reference stuff. clutch doesn't look hard, but couldn't find a direct replacement- may have to get it rebuilt/relined by a shop as well as the brake shoes for the front..
Have you been able to get your brakes restored? I just went though mine and found that the wheel cylinders and shoes are from a 1947 Ford 1 ton truck. The shoes are 12 in x 1 ¾ in.
Blacksmith barn, I was just starting to write up some instructions for you to find this point and see you got there about half hour ago!
I did a lot of research to find out pretty much the same info. Got mine working pretty good! Ended up buying another machine that's a little newer, have to do the same to it as well, think the parts are the same. Nothing like having 2 machines to work on at the same time.
Hi, I have a h25B too.I bought it recently and I don't now anything about it , I think that was made in Germany, I'm not sure. I need to replace seals on hydraulic cylinders.
I sold my H25B 2 years ago and seem to remember it having what I thought was an auto dumping bucket. Due to how the tilt cylinders are mounted on a linkage as you approach full lift height the bucket would dump unless curled all the way back if I remember correctly. Today I was watching an old John Deere Crawler promotional video from 1959 and they said if the bucket is lowered, after dumping, from full height using only the boom the bucket will be at the ideal 5º digging angle when lowered. I wonder if that's the point of the linkage on the H25 as well?