Hi guys, Great forum, I'm just itching to get me a hoe for harvesting field stone, building a road to the back lot on my 9 acres here in NE CT, landscaping, plowing my driveway etc... Just down the street a fella is selling a 96 closed cab, 4x4 extendahoe with heat only, with around 6000 hours, asking $21000. I looked it over after lurking here awhile and demoed it. It runs really great and does everything its supposed to do, but, there is significant rust around the cab near the footwells, welcome to New England! and the tubing underneath is rusting like the brakelines do under cars. I suspect it spent a good portion of its life plowing snow if the rust is evidence of this. And the entire oil pan under the engine is coated with scant dripping. Steering feels tight. I'm not experienced with these, this is the first one i'd even sat in The previous owner had it for about 3 years and did the sitework for his new house. He said he was careful to grease it and changed the oil a couple hundred miles ago. My question: If the hours are right, and if it's been reasonably maintained, how long can one expect the engine, tranny, and hydraulic pump to last on a 580 of this vintage? Thanks!
Super L was the best hoe case made. 6,000hrs is alot depending on what kinda work its done. Light duty work you should get alot more life out of the machine. Severe duty work or poor care of the machine I'd pass. If you could find some one who knows a thing or two bout backhoes to look at it and make a judgement it could be a good machine for what you need.
Hey, thanks for the reply! Yeah, i've been trying to, can't even get someone to go, offering money even. There's a used tractor dealer here out of Thompson CT that was kind enough to take a quick look for free, He said it felt fine to him, although, the rust at the cab base by the frame puzzled him. His advice was if it feels like it's getting weak to auction it off, he was sure it would bring 18,000. But, i'd like to get someone who's willing to crawl around and really look it over. I guess 21,000 isn't unreasonable if it doesn't end up needing a tranny or hydraulic pump. Everything works but i didn't attempt to dig or lift anything. Here's a question. What's an early sign the hydraulic pump is going? I know the engines usually last a long time. How about the tranny? Thanks for replying, JS.
Mike you could find a fair nice machine for around $20000 , dont jump at the first one. Up in Philopston Ma there is a good dealer that sells all used stuff . Check there web page and see if something fits your price range.... http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&pcid=2863925&dlr=1&catid=1046&bcatid=4 check back every week or two they sell a good amount of equipment .
6,000 hours should be about mid-life for a well-cared-for B/H. I've seen several that have surpassed 12,000 hours. You should be more wary of the rust: you may end up having to replace those steel lines and even the oil pan itself, not to mention the cab rust. All that rust will only devalue the machine over the years. Has the cooling system been maintained? Hydraulic, reverser and rear-end oils changed? Hydraulic reservoir cleaned? Wiring still in the factory harness, or has it been worked on and left in a mess? Check the front steering U-Joints closely for play. Front driveshaft bent? Roof leak? Shock in the suspension seat still work? Steering cylinder OK? Check front axle planetary oil - black or grey is not good. Some things to think of as you ponder this.
Wow, yeah, it's not like a car, is it? The answer to your questions (fluid changes) are no. The owner changed the engine oil and greased her regularly, that's all he'll confess to. I ought to take some pics of her and upload them here. My gut tells me it's worth 18,000. The rust may not be as bad as i'm making it out to be. Steering cylinder ok does that mean check it for leaks? The steel lines underneath, is that a common maint item? Don't they all rust here in New england? Why would i need to change the oil pan? Roof and cab in general is in good condition, no broken glass and clean. Shock in seat does work. How would i check the front axle planetary oil? I didn't check any fluid. How to check play in front steering u-joints? Would i need someone to turn the wheel while i was under it? I need to get a diagram of all the fluid check points, i think.
xcmark, Yes, i talked with them about a 2002 terex with aux hyd on hoe for a thumb. they want 29k for it. Low hours as are all used terex's for some reason. I wonder if they's take an offer, it's hard to know what they've got into it. He said they DO NOT got thru the machine and change fluids, etc so i don't see an advantage of buying from a dealer, but, i've read a good comment about them here, and now you've endorsed them. I'll keep a look at their stuff, thanks, xc!
might be buying a newer case wheel loader and if so id consider selling my 1995 580sl its in great shape beside the seat cover and case fade,, ive owned it for since 01 got it from the orig owner with 900 hrs , it has 1900 +/- today , 4/1 bucket with a/c im in sw ct drop me a line if you want more info:usa
Take a ride up and look around I have been there 3 time on weekends , they where closed but the lot isnt lock up. I have seen equipment that they dont list on there site on the lot. A friend of min has had dealing with them , no issues. They buy from all over the place , auctions, trade ins etc. Some stuff was good and nice fair price , some stuff was not so nice and cheap. They had a 710 4x4 there last fall cheap , when I looked at it she was in a War and cracks welded up (just over 11,000 hour and no claims that it was nice)
Yeah, someday if i don't find what i want thru word of mouth or locally advertised i'll be heading up that way. It's a bit out there from where i live and work. Besides, I'm still not certain how much i need to spend to get best value for my needs. I suppose the worst case would be to buy a higher hour machine, (over 6000) and end up replacing the tranny or hydpump shortly after. The dealers like to tell me that could happen to any of them but, from my experience buying and selling cars, well, i don't think that's necessarily true. I'm sure someone experienced with operating a particular make/model could readily identify key problems. This i am not qualified to do with heavy equipment, but someone here on the board already offered to share his expertise directly, good bunch of folks here on the forum! It's a challenge to decide how much to pay for a used machine knowing all along there will be further expenses in maintenance. If i was buying for my business as i was seeking to earn an income from it, paying more and expecting more just makes sense. But when your just gonna use the machine for maybe 1000 hours over a few years with no income stream derived, it's a tricky balancing act to decide where the best bang for the buck is. 15000, 20000? How low can a weekend warrior type owner go if you have the following specs in mind, 4x4, extendahoe, EROPS, auxiliary hydr for 4/1 bucket, and have a reasonably reliable machine requiring repairs limited to hoses and seals?
I run a 580 super L. It's a '96 model with 5800 hrs. Put tourqe converter in at 5600 hrs, only trouble I've had. I've ran John Deer's & New Holland. deere is a good machine but the N H is useless if u try to use front buckeet for digging dirt,shale,etc. Not enough weight in back end. My case will dig & fill bucket without spinning a tire.
Buying a used backhoe, especially one with that many hours is a crap shoot. If I were going to buy one with that many hours it would be from the original owner, and he would be an owner/operator. This type of user usually keeps very good care of his equipment. He is proud of it and makes his living with it so it needs to be well maintained. Since it's his only machine he will not abuse it and risk down time or shorten it's usefull life. Usually the care he keeps of it expresses the type of service one may expect when they hire him. He will allso have done most (or all) of the maintenance, and will know the entire history of the machine. I used to be one of these guys. Though I now have many more machines (to many to maintain as well as I once did my backhoe), I still have my backhoe. It's 1997 CAT 416C (with over 12,000 hrs), and still is running strong. This can mostly be attributed to it being taken care of the way I described above. I did not baby it. I used it to it's potential without abusing it, and kept it well maintained. I have had to do some major repairs to it but I don't think it owes me a thing. I have had to do the brakes 2X. They were in board mounted (as are the Case brakes) I had to remove the rear axle from the machine to disassemble it to get to the brakes. Cost me about a $1000 bucks in parts. Dealer quote is $3500-$4000 for that repair. At about 7,500 hours the transmission lost a $2 snap ring on the all wheel drive shaft. Transmission had to be removed an disassembled to repair (didn't do that one myself). Cost me about $6,000 to repair. I replaced the hydraulic pump at 12,000 hours because I suspected it was getting a little tired. I had the dealer do it at a cost of about $2,000. Even if you find and O/O unit it is not a guarantee of having a trouble free life. It might be worth your while to find a lower houred machine (that will cost more) but can be sold for more when you are through with it. I would have much more confidence in a machine with 2000 hours on it. Something that concerened me about the particular Case that you mentioned was the comment about the steel lines being rusted. I don't live in the N/E so I don't know what to expect from a unit with that much age on it, but I'm not sure that expectations are relevant. My concern is that when I used to run Case backhoes ("C", "D", "E", & "K" models) one of the common issues for them was the steel hydraulic tubes would rub (on something) and wear a hole through them. If they are rusty they will be that much thinner (and probably indicates rubbing) so you may have replace some soon (which some can be a major PITA). If the brakes have not been replaced yet I would bet they will need it soon. Check the manual (should be one with the machine) for all service points, service schedule, and routine maintanance instructions (where to find & check oil levels etc.). The Case dealer should have an oil sample program so you can take them samples (from all compartments) for them to check out in the lab. They can sell you sample bottles and a way to extract the oil. This may help to see if a catastrauphic failure is iminent. The dealer will probably help you look over the machine and give you some advice. They may even be familiar, or have some repair history with that particular unit. It would be best to have someone who is familiar with this type of machine to check it over for you. Especially since it sounds as though you don't have much experience with them. Maybe you could hire one of the mechanics (from the Case dealer) to check it out for you on the weekend (for a side job). It would even be worth it to hire a professional mechanic for this, if you are serious about this machine. One thing is for sure. You would be well advised to do your homework on it. If you don't you don't have much right to be PO'd when it turns out to be a lemon. Good luck.
"One thing is for sure. You would be well advised to do your homework on it. If you don't you don't have much right to be PO'd when it turns out to be a lemon." :notworthy LOL, truer words were never spoken. Thank you, DGODGR, for sharing your specific experiences. That is the type of insightfull wisdom guys in my situation need. It's appreciated. One challenge for me is there are no case dealers in my area. But, like i mentioned earlier one of the forum members offered to help me out, so, yeah, i most definately need an experienced pair of eyes on anything i consider. I'll contact the nearest dealer to see what's available for someone in my shoes. Thanks! You too, Rooster!
Just watched a 2006 JD 310G open ROPS, 800 (that's EIGHT HUNDRED) hours, 2WD standard hoe sell for 25,000. It was in Texas, buyer from CHILE!
Oil Sample Analysis Engine Hydraulic date of analysis Apr 21, 2010 Silicon 7 PPM 7 PPM Lead 0 PPM 2 PPM Tin 0 PPM 0 PPM Copper 3 PPM 8 PPM Aluminum 2 PPM 2 PPM Silver 0 PPM 0 PPM Nickel 0.4 PPM 0.3 PPM Chromium 0.3 PPM 0.6 PPM Iron 6 PPM 7 PPM Glycol NEG N/A Water NEG NEG Fuel <5% N/A These are the results of an oil analysis for a 1150 hours 2006 JD 310G for sale in Texas in an iron planet auction. Anyone care to interpret these results? Prolly a more useful question, What are we looking for when looking at a sample analysis? Thanks Sorry they aren't lined up, i had it all lined up when i entered it but the forum software ignored all my spaces....
One more, for comparison. Another JD 310G with 1200 hours, this one a 2005 with 4x4 open cab, standard stick. Sold for 26k from georgia to a florida buyer. The high copper PPM in the tranny oil may be something...... Oil Sample Analysis Engine Transmission date of analysis Apr 21, 2010 Apr 21, 2010 Silicon 6 PPM 10 PPM Lead 0 PPM 20 PPM Tin 1 PPM 3 PPM Copper 0 PPM 272 PPM Aluminum 3 PPM 3 PPM Silver 0 PPM 1.2 PPM Nickel 0.3 PPM 0.5 PPM Chromium 0 PPM 0.5 PPM Iron 4 PPM 51 PPM Glycol NEG N/A Water NEG NEG Fuel <5% N/A
I would think that you will have to consult a John Deere dealer to find out what those numbers indicate. Obviously the numbers you are refering to are in Parts Per Million. I have never had a sample come back from the Deere labs or for a Deere machine (although I have just aquired one). When I get back my sample reports (from Cat) they will indicate what sort of action (if any) they recommend. There is a person at the lab (or I will call my local shop foreman) to discuss what each element indicates. Each element can be traced back to a particular component in that particular compartment. Silicone is dirt (you can guess where that comes from). I am not sure if all the manufacturers trace the same elements to the same components (it depends on what they are made out of). I would suspect they are similar but I'm just not sure. The more important thing to know about oil samples is that they are not very good tools as individuals. Plus there is a little more info required to accurately interperet them (oil type, brand, and age, and the age of the machine). To make them even more accurate you need to have a history of samples to establish a trend. Each machine is different and will have a different "normal" than another (though they all should fall into a pre-established acceptable perameter). A trend will help to isolate anomolies (like a contaminated sample), and will help indicate a severe change in an elements presence. The accuracy of the sample (and another reason a trend is recommended) is greatly effected by how it was taken. I can go on but it would be better if you could talk to the lab that took the sample. Hopefully the previous owner took many samples to that lab. A single sample can really only help warn you of iminent failure, and there are a lot of factors that can effect the results. Are you considering buying the first machine or did you post that only for interperetation? If you are going to get samples from that Case (or any other machine for that matter) then consult the lab that tested it. They will be the best source for interpreting the results. I forgot to mention that the multiple samples needed to est. the trend will have to be taken over the life of the machine and not multiple samples at one time.
Hey there, DGODGR, These were part of a report that the auction site, Iron Planet, had at the bottom of the listings for two hoes sold today on their online auction. I got curious what could be learned from the analysis so copied them here. IP does not give any interpretation so there must be some relative value other than the trend you referenced, of which, i'm certain is completely valid and the best way to use the data. Without prior samples, however, I suspect a PPM of a particular element over a certain threshold ought to point to imminent danger. For instance, if a brass bushing is wearing then a higher PPM for that element (or copper, perhaps) would show up. Of all the oil sample analeses they had available, the higher hour engine/trannys had higher levels of virtually all the elements. There must be a PPM threshold for each subassembly where we could conclude a risk for some specific failure. Wondering if anyone out there has run into that. As far as the particular Case i was looking at, I'm still looking...
Hi. I operate a diesel generating station for our isolated community. I have 4 stationary cat diesels from which I take oil samples once a month. I take these samples whether I have used the unit that month or not, as oil contamination could happen when it is idle as well. When I see the results, I am looking for trends and like many of us I don't really know the importance of all the tested elements and what they all mean, but copper can come from bearings, glycol from coolant, these are the obvious ones. The lab that tests my samples analyses the results and compares them with previous ones and lets me know if there are any problems. I always take samples from an engine that has been running for at least 15 minutes and has come to running temp (my units are all warmed with circulating coolant heaters so they are available to produce power in less than a minute). All in all, one sample wont tell you everything but on the other hand, if there was glycol in your oil you would know right a way that you have a coolant leak and a serious problem which makes that sample worth a lot. John
That's interesting. I also am responsible for cat gen-sets, 4 2000 HP monsters...3516's. How ironic is that? You've got me thinking. I'm gonna dig up our sample tests and track down our cat rep. He ought to be a good resource. How dumb am i not to think of that? Well, i am on vacation so work is an afterthought these days! Thanks singletree! I wonder how many owner/operators actually do the annual oil sample testing?
20,000 for a 96 580 with 6,000hrs is crazy, a guy I know just bought a 580 with 6k hrs on it for 17,000 and I think HE overpaid, it has problems, he had to put some money into it.
Aliate, thank you. I'm getting the message. One of the forum members was just here and we checked it out and although it's a good running, tight machine it does have significant rust issues, leaks and an unknown maintenance history. He suggested it was a 15k machine at best. Thanks for your thoughts!
keep looking there is a good machine out there for ya within the 20k range:usa
I just got the new Machinery Trader in the mail today. On the cover is an add from RSC Equipment Rental. It advertises that they have several 2005 580Ms 4WD with 840 to 1695 HRS for $27, 500. Might be worth a look.
Oil Samples I'm not an expert but seems to me anything high double digits or triple digits would be of concern...plus glycol... I appreciate the oil sample analysis on IP as well, plus all the pics...Wish Cat and Brandt did the same with their used equipment...
Just keep looking and you ought to be able to find a good machine for a good price. When we went looking for a replacement for our very old and tired 580B, I ended up looking at about a dozen different machines from Case to John Deere to Cat to New Holland to Komatsu to JCB. We settled on a '98 Case 580SL with 4x4, enclosed cab, air ride seat, extend-a-hoe, auxilary hydraulics, heat and air. It had about 4500 hours and we picked it up for about 26,500 delivered along with a 12 and 24" bucket. When looking at used machines, check all over for any obvious signs of leaks, wear, cracks and repairs, worn hoses, worn bushings and anything that doesn't work. Don't be afraid to climb under the machine either. And I'd be afraid if any machine that the owner won't let you try out. On oil analysis. I take the engine oil in from my diesel Chevy 2500HD every other oil change. My local Cat dealer does this service and it's only about $10 a sample. That's cheap peace of mind!
Sounds like you have yourself there a loaded machine. Nice find. I 'm curious, is there much rust on it? Do they salt the roads in Topeka area? The price included delivery...was that from a dealer then? Any warranty? Lots of case 580 SL lovers out there....
4500hrs hmmm what would the same machine without the air ride seat but with a 4/1 front bucket,manual geith thumb and only 1900 hrs be worth?????:usa
They do salt the roads quite a bit here in Kansas but there wasn't much rust on it. I got to talk to the previous owner for some time and he took excellent care of it to the point of power washing it before he out it back in the barn. We did buy it from a dealer (Coleman Equipment in Bonner Springs). If I remember right I believe they did include a 30 day warranty. It has been a very reliable machine. Other then the basic maintenance items and a flat tire every now and then, I don't believe we have done any major work to it. We bought the machine almost 3 years ago now, so the price may have changed a bit with the economy slowing down.
upbrakie, Sounds like you have a gem there, God bless.
CTkite, IDK, but, i know a guy who wants to sell a machine exactly like that but i can't afford it!