I have heard this statement from a whole host of people . I'm just wondering how many people actually believe in that statement . Don't tie a load down to stay on the trailer but instead just enough binders to let it break free of the trailer if something go's sideways .
I have had great difficulty convincing our Elfin Safety people of that dictum. However now after 5 years we actually move tractors from one side of the mine to the other without chaining them down at all. If a 90-ton tractor wants off the lowboy it's gonna go anyway. Next step will be to do the move with the operator in the cab. Currently working on that.
my theory is once it starts moving on the trailer let it go or its going to take truck and trailer with it
Yair . . . Tiny . I have mentioned on here before that in the 'sixties through to the late 'eighties when I was driving heavy haul we never chained 'dozers. Just slack-rope or blade in float then back to hold on the gooseneck, rippers down and handbrake set tight. The theory was if the tractor was going to go it wouldn't take the truck. I never had any issues, one of our fellers lost a HD21 when a road shoulder gave way. I never saw it but they reckon the tractor just fell on it's side and there was no damage to the truck. Cheers.
We chain everything down from the lawn mower to the big equipment with G 70 3/8" chain & binders. One thing I also do is chock the tracks in the front of the heavy equipment in the event of a hard brake "panic stop". the 7"x9" wood chocks (railroad tie ends) will hold better than the chains in that event.Also run a blocker vehical ahead of the lowboy to try to warn & slow down oncoming traffic on narrow county roads.When we meet traffic on these roads I generally just stop the lowboy on the edge of the road then let the vehical coming at me make the decision to go past me.If they scrach my bulldozer with there car then I can at least tell the county sherrif we were stopped on the side of the road & the blocker done his best to slow them down & warn of the on coming load.What the heak else can I do?:beatsme
It depends what it is, mostly I tie stuff till it will take the truck with it, but if I was moving a 90 ton tractor in a mine I probly wouldn't try. I had 41 large bales of hay on my flatbed the other day and had to come out of a 10' driveway into a narrow paved road. After I made the turn I called the customer for something and he said he figured I was calling for help after I spilled bales all over the highway. I told him no, I tied that load on for real, I pulled the trailer down thru the ditch no problem. His guys pull 18 bales on 10 ton goosencks behind F250s with just one rope from front to back.
An interesting question Tiny, and one not short of variables. I totally get what Nige is saying about moving iron "across the mine", makes perfect sense to me. And I get the old school thinking or Scrub Puller, if things go south, tossing the load is less harm done than tossing the whole kit. But here in the USA, 2013, if we're talking about transporting loads on public roads and highways, anytime an incident happens that involves a truck hauling a load, the driver is the first to be scrutinized for inspection. And worse, using an extreme example, if a lowboy driver was carrying a piece of equipment with nothing more than a single rope across the rig from front to back, and it were to come loose, regardless of the circumstances that caused the event, and that piece of equipment were to smash a vehicle and kill all the occupants, there would be hell to pay by that driver. Remember, here in the US, McDonalds got sued (successfully) because coffee is actually hot. My point, I agree with all that it might be best to simply allow the load to find terra firma if things go south. But the reality here in the US, for those who seek to avoid the litigation lottery, a driver best do everything he can to secure the load to the trailer short of welding it to it. jmho.
I am actually from the school of if stuff go's south , The trailer will still be glued to the load . The law here will count chains and fine you if fall short . As a general rule I will have enough chains and binders on to pick the weight of the load . Here is a sample , Night job for the 200 ton hydro . I worked with the day crew and tore the machine down then dropped the wing load off at the night job location . Night driver didn't get the 5th wheel latched and tried to drive off . The weights stayed put , much to the ironworkers pleasure that were standing too close when he attempted to pull out .
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Loading an excavator or dozer in the winter on an icy deck, it is sometimes hard to get it to stay there long enough to tie it down. I tie it well enough to stay there.
I did a couple of insurance jobs on machines that fell off the trailer when they weren't tied down. One job the driver was blocking the road and wanted to get out of the way. He ran the machine on, started to move the truck to a drive way that had a little slant. When he stopped the truck on the slant the excavator decided to go an a walkabout on it's own. I haven't had anything to do with trucks for years but when I did there was something about having to have holding force of at least three times the weight of the load.
An interesting topic indeed, I've heard this as well many times over the years, but there are two ways to view it, first on private property, then by all means do as you please, I could care less. Second one is on public roads, as some have stated its the law in my country to chain and binder the load down, I intend no offense to anyone but this is my my opinion and maybe mine alone, but the word some might want to use is "responsibility". If your planning on getting behind the wheel of anything and driving on a public road, where my loved one's travel, maybe you should be responsible enough to obey the law, and chain down the load or else let someone who can drive and operate the truck. For those that don't believe in this, I sure hope your loved one's don't end up in any accident with someone who has the same philosophy as you do, will chaining down the load eliminate all problems, never, but its sure far better than meeting a truck carrying something with very few chains or none at all on the load, I'm pretty sure of that much. As for me, with liability, I"ll chain and binder down my loaded equipment to or above the law, if not for liability reasons, for peace of mind, if there is an accident at least I can say I did what was legal and did my best, I'm not sure how I could handle the ordeal of my dozer went off the side, few or no chains on it and someone was injured and I "could have" or "should have" done something better. I've sat through enough insurance seminars about this topic in the past, have read all the published data and unless someone can prove without a shadow of doubt chains and binders DON'T save lives or reduce injuries, common sense says they do along with the data, and the law, I'll be handle the chains and binders and chain down what I haul, seeing how its my truck, trailer and equipment involved.
I know how Dot thinks but from my point of view are we chaning the load to the trailer or the trailer to the load. My point is a 40000# truck and trailer and a 70000# excavator do you need 70000# of chain or 40000#. If it turns over you would only need 40000# of chain to hold the trailer to the machine because the heaver machine is going to go where it wants not where the truck and trailer wants.
06Pete, before you go too far down that road, remember one thing, the dot is and has been wanting not just 70,000 lbs of chains and binders, but actually the 70,000 plus the 40,000 lbs as well, or 110,000 lbs of chains and then there is nothing to discuss on the subject. But to answer your question, until the load shifts you have as much control of the load as you can ever have, most accidents happen and things turn bad when that load does shift, mainly because when that happens, the one behind the wheel isn't prepared for the weight transfer or can steer or maintain control once it does happen.
There was one accident down toward the pike in Mass, Car drifted over to head-on a dumptruck with a tag trailer and excavator, the trailer rolled and the excavator didn't move a lick, it rather looked like the trailer saved the excavator from a lot more damage, boom and everything restrained. As far as I can figure, in case of an accident, the insurance is much more simple to apply if everything stays attached to the towing vehicle.
Any more you can just put aside what may be a good idea, your first priority needs to be keeping yourself as lawyer proof as possible.
For years I never latched the deck of my tilt bed trailers when loaded, although I always chained the machine down. When I first started out a couple of old timers told me that if the machine wanted to come off the back of the trailer, you were better off having the deck free to tilt than not. It always made sense to me that having the machine roll off the back with the truck and trailer under control would be a better scenario than having the machine falling off the back after having busted the trailer eye or truck hitch or having lifted the rear truck tires off the ground. Now days, I always latch the deck because I fear the DOT, but never feel that I am safer because of it.
Guess you can figure which side of this discussion I fall on
yeh that counter weight is top heavy
I agree with on the job site but on the road we tie um down as if it was our loved ones that it might keep safe
Too bad for that accident. All I can say is, moving equipments is not easy.
Well said. You have to be lawyer proof and cop proof both. California is especially bad about tie downs and we generally put on everything we think we need...and a little more. I've seen the commercial cops argue with each other at scales and roadside inspections about tie downs, signage, and flagging. If they can't agree with each other it makes it tough on us to be in compliance...hence the extra chains, signs, flags, whatever. Moving a piece of equipment off road we generally take it on a piece by piece basis but i like to see the guys put on a couple of chains. It takes less time to put the chains on than it does to explain to some pissed off side rod or owner why you didn't.
i remember a man lift that was chained to a 50 ton sliding axle trailer. When the solenoid screwed up and lifted the boom up , breaking the strap and removing the basket on a overpass. The basket ended up hitting a Hostess delivery van. The end result was a bent 50 ton trailer , it was chained well enough to bend the trailer rather than falling off..OHIO dot had fewer tickets to write.. I have always erred on an extra chain or two was always better than a ticket..
Battery shutoffs are nice too......
I tie it down as though my life depends on it. All of our chains and hooks are grade 100. It's hard as hell to make a good,safe living today. Everyone tries to save a buck and that boils down to me having to run as efficiently as I possibly can. That means not breaking anything and doing the job by myself where I should have at least an extra set of eyeballs to help guide me as I load some of these scrapers and rock trucks. But....the money isn't there. This doesn't mean that I use cheaper chains or let my equipment go to pieces. It means that I jump up and down 38 more times trying to load a scraper by myself. In my book, there's nothing worse than a lazy lowbed operator. I'm talking about those who don't seem to think that they need to throw enough chains or those who don't clean off their deck after hauling a dirty piece. There are laws put in place and it's for a damned good reason. Loose chains and binders going down the road is not acceptable. If you can't keep your load tight.....then you are lazy. Its that simple. If you don't throw enough chains....you're lazy. If you don't keep your trailer clean and free of dirt and rocks, you are not only lazy, but you are also a slob. If you don't have the energy or strength, take a nap. If that doesn't work, park it. Our image has already been smeared thanks to a biased media. We don't need the help of your lazy rear. I know what t takes to survive in this cut throat industry. I try my best to comply and operate within the law.... and it's not easy. I have no problem getting in someone's face and calling the law when I see someone going down the road with rubber bands and duct tape holding their tractor down. No signs.....I'll call on that too. The fact that you share the road with my wife and kids is the only reason that I need to feel the way I do.
My thoughts exactly, Pete!
Well said Pete, I couldn't agree more. Hopefully someone reading will realize they need to get their loads secure and someone's life will be saved.
I can't believe that anyone would even take that kind of chance in the first place? I don't know? Maybe I'm too anal when it comes tying stuff down. I don't ever want any help, don't bother me, stay away when I'm throwing chains, stay away when I'm unchaining stuff and no.....I still don't want any help :Banghead Follow those few simple rules and we'll get along just fine.... :cool2 who an I kidding? No we won't
I am not QUITE as antisocial as you, I will accept help if you seem competent and want to real bad, BUT, I WILL, put my hand on every chain you hook, and I won't worry about your feelings while I'm deciding whether or not to redo your work.
I'd be happier if they went for a walk while I tie things down, but usually they know what they're doing so this is the route I go.
I agree with pete if you want to help dont. 4 chains can be as good as 6 chains depends were and how you use them.
Right or wrong, we move everything from our D-7 to our 11's, 5130's,1800, and drills without tying them down. Even going across a state highway
I have always tied loads down when I worked construction, now in the mine we work at we have a 190 ton cat truck with a low bed trailer and we never tie the loads down, d10's 385's, 100 ton shovel buckets, drills etc. It made me nervous at first but offroad I don't worry too much and just don't drive stupid. On my gooseneck it's always overkill when I tie down.
I recall many years ago they wanted to move a Cat D398 V-12 Genset from the shop up to the storage area on the hill at the quarry on a low boy. Boss told driver "Don't worry about the chains, just drive slow" There was a slight dip in the road up the hill on one side. Truck was probably moving much less than 5 mph. After some work with the 30 ton crane we were able to get the genset picked back up. I forget what the total damages were but know when it was moved the next time it was chained down.
Saw this on face book the other day and thought about this thread
He wasn't even on yet and he fell off!
Yair . . . I heard about this but first time I've seen the picture . . . and I haven't heard the full story, I'm sure some one on here will know what happened Cheers.
bad spotting would be my guess, looks like it wasnt lined up right and tracked right off the left side. i agree with alot of the above. but at a certain point you're just chaining the trailer to the load not the other way around.
We load everything over the side of our lowboy. If you can stand to watch this jerky video, looks like a 11 getting loaded up at the end of it. It's not my video, just passing it along. http://youtu.be/utLv4350DI8
Silly way to think for on road hauling,chain it down and when you think you are done throw 2 more on. When I drove lowbed in the bush I would never chain down the load. If the road sluffs and you have a D8 or JD 892 excavator and it go's you are now chained to it, instead of it is chained to truck. Many times I would be 100-200 feet from creek as the crow flies but I was also 4,5,600 feet above it. I think most log truck drivers would wait as well until they were at the paved or public road and throw the binders on there while checking the truck out.
Most log truck drivers do that here to, but I always thought it was to allow the logs to settle in on the ride down to blacktop....less stopping and retightening on the trip to the mill. Not to much to worry about with a log truck, the logs are never strapped to the truck, only to themself and gravity holding it on the bunks lol.
Here in Southern Oregon I see log trucks coming from Califoristan and their logs are tied to the bunks, plus tied to themselves. Other than that logs not going out of, or coming into Oregon are just tied to themselves.
Really, that's crazy. Must be a Mexifornia thing to tie them to the bunks.
It has been quite a while since I spent some summers logging with my Dad's company in N. California. If I recall correctly, the custom and practice was to tie two wrappers to the bunks and then some more around the load. They always tied the load down on the landing before moving the truck down the hill, or up depending on the terrain. Yes, they stopped at the highway and checked how tight everything was after a few miles of driving. This was back in the early 60's, which might tell you how old I am. As for lowbed tie down practice, it always seemed like enough chain, but never really asked a driver what capacity they were aiming for. Biggest thing back then was probably a D8, or a shovel converted to log loading, like a Northwest Timbermaster. This was all on conventional highway trucks, so the blade on a D8 was usually separated from the tractor.
Its the law here in ontario... 1 tiedown for every 8 ft of load.
RIP. Drove by this wreck. Fair share of 'equipment joining driver in cab' pics on the Web.
Hopefully that one wasn't a fatal! Just tied down with straps?
Surprisingly, I heard it wasn't fatal. Hundreds of loads of pipe moving @ Alberta everyday. Majority using 8-11 4"straps including 3 bellywraps. There are old pipe haulers, reckless pipe haulers, but no old reckless pipe haulers.
Going back to the original theme of this thread, have any of you heard somebody say, "If it wants off, let it off, while my wife and kids are passing that truck" ?
Yup. If it wants off let it off. That's what I say. RIP driver
How does that even happen? The front of the truck doesn't look like it hit anything and I can't see how having to lock up the brakes would cause that loader to come foreword so hard and fast it would jump over the gooseneck and wind up on the cab Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
Not sure what's going on here. No skid marks. Wheel clocks in front of the drivers. It appears that the damage happened where it sets as the broken glass is on the ground. Don't believe there would be that much there if it was drug in by a wrecker. Looks like it backed over the cab after the trailer got reattached but before it got tied down. Even looks like you would have to try pretty hard to get it up there. Stuck throttle maybe and a panicked operator. Ya think the truck belonged to someone the loader operator was a bit peeved at.
Wheel chocks were put in place as a 'safety' measure before they hoisted the loader off. Check out the whole story at www.cdllife.com . Not smart enough to post a link with my 'smart' phone.
Looks horrible! wondering if it was a 2 chain tiedown that went wrong, I usually do three on the backhoe and four on the dozer.
Nah. It was just a good old boy that subscribed to the 'if it wants off, let it off' train of thot. My condolences. Don't get me wrong. I've hauled lots of tracked equipment with little or NO chains, on site and short hauls down country roads. Equipment that I knew & that had a positive park brake. D6d, 7g, 8k, & 9g 's got properly secured. Nowadays, my wife & sons determine how many chains I use.
No more specific info than at the newspaper
http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/20...-on-his-flatbed-and-comes-to-rest-on-the-cab/ It's neat how the loader rode the neck into the cab.
This guy figured gravity would work just as it had hundreds of times before... but at least these guys got to do something for a couple hours
Gravity is not just a good idea it's a LAW do not break the LAW or you will end up in trouble like that guy!
If that is an actual container trailer there are no straps or chains. They are secured with pegs that lock into the same holes used for lifting only on the bottom
Correct: that is an actual 'can' chassis, the problem came into play when he didn't flip the dogs to lock it down... then he proceeded to drive like he always drives (balls to the wall) coming out of the warehouse area with a sharp turn onto the main road while the rear tires on the chassis rolled(jumped) over the inclined island and launched the can rolling across the road and slamming into the curb... good thing there wasn't something in that lane
Looks like a case of better brakes than chains. It did not help that the height and angle of the loader rear end lined up perfectly with the gooseneck and the tires straddled the narrow neck, then bounced up over the trucks drive tires. I have seen that happen, but without the fatal outcome, with a old 988, 87A on a narrow neck Cozad. It broke 2 chains, pulled 2 hooks through the side pockets, and slid a good ways up the neck when the driver stopped at a stop sign on a downhill grade. The chains were 3/8 transport chain, and that is one of the reasons I use only grade 100 chain. I also like my wide neck Murray, as it is a lot less likely to let something over the top.
This was to be a gravy Saturday morning move. WA500 with an inoperative parking brake and only 2 chains holding the thing down. The driver supposedly blew a l/f steer and went off into the center... Imperial Ave (Hwy 86) @ Keystone in Brawley/El Centro to be exact. I didn't personally know the driver but we've waved to each other here and there going down the road. I just don't understand how an experienced lowbed operator could be so damned lazy? Two chains on a 60-70K lb machine = suicide in my book. Maybe that explains why I seem so darned slow. I would have had 4 1/2" grade 100's and 3-4 3/8" 100's holding the thing down. I feel bad for his family as this accident was 100% preventable. Clairmont Equipment Rental will be run through the ringer thanks to this bonehead. They say that the driver had about 15-20 minutes to think about what he had done before he died. A bullet to the head would have been much faster
Very sad! Inoperative parking brake and only two chains? I'm not a lowboy operator but would not even want to move a skid-steer like that, no less a WA500. Even tied down with the 4 1/2 inch and 4 3/8 inch it would still be a little touchy.
The outcome is terrible. A family left hurting. I wonder if being it was a Saturday move it was the normal low bed driver or a substitute because no worries, DOT won't be out on Saturday. I find it real scary that any experienced low bed driver would chain that light.
dont let this off Well I've been having troubles posting pictures lately. So this is a test pic. some one from a delivery service came to pick this up to ship it to the rebuilder. he was driving an f250 with aluminum bed One foot aluminum removable sides and tail gate. no chains or binder s. But bicycle straps... no wood either. I gave him an old tire. I wrote my name in the cylinder with you paint marker. how would you like that coming thru your truck?
Found this today. Seems the beam wanted to lay down for a while, so it let itself off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pNx_PEcFNc
Wow, that beam really flipped the truck hard when it got to that end. Looks like the dolly got cocked? That had to hurt. Should be titled 'huge beam drops truck'
Yair . . . I can't pick if that is a steerable dolly or not. It looks pretty much to me as though it is just strapped to the beam which is perfectly okay if the beam and dolly are made to be welded/bolted together rather than relying on some pizzy little chains. On the other hand it could have been remotely steered from that pickup with all the aerials and just chained to a turntable/bolster. Again I wouldn't do it that way . . . I would want some form of positive attachment, it isn't hard to add some transportation lugs during manufacture. In either case speed was a factor, he was travelling too fast and it was probably just as well he went out of shape and hit that bridge rather than a car load of kids. Cheers.
Around here, Chicagoland, it is common for all tracked machines to be tied down with a binder from the inside cornet of a track pad to the trailer frame rail. Four 3/8" binders and 16 little track pad bolts are all that holds a machine on a trailer. Makes me sick.
watch that video again look at the trailer hit the barrier wall!!!! that's what takes out the dolley from under the beam just bad driving
Nope, the dolly was dogtracking before impact. The tail of the beam should have never been farther right than the tractor. As scrub pointed out the dolly wasn't attached securely enough to hold it in line.
It appeared to me that the dolly was tracking to the drivers side at the start and then started right and kept going to the barrier. My first thought was that the support vehicle on the left was steering the dolly and never brought it back to center, but I could not see any steering controls or wheel movement either. Looks like the dolly was twisting in the chains the more I look at it.
if a beam falls on a highway, does it make a sound and how loud is it.
I'm thinking that the driver nailed the throttle hard as he was going through and coming out of the corner. The dolly wheels look like duals and if you look there is no room between the dolly frame and tires for them to steer. Also you don't see them steer as they enter the corner. You can seen the dolly stay at the abutment and the beam slide off the front of the dolly onto the road. I'm thinking the root cause of the accident is the person who set up the transportation plan and the driver who set out with the wrong equipment. I will have to agree that the truck got slammed hard when the beam released the twist into the truck frame. I wouldn't want to have had to ride that cab over when it started to turn turtle.
Then i guess this was stupid.....
That looks a LITTLE overloaded!!!
Weight wise it don't look too bad....
Now that is what I call chained in good. turned on its side and hasn't fallen out.
Was surprised it took the weight cause the truck's rated at 1.5 T and i think the Case is bout 2.5 T. Took some steep hills in 1st tho and the truck was extremely top heavy
I happened across this today, and thought of this old thread right away. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=965_1410945816 How long would it have taken to put at least 4 chains on so they would not have to figure out how to pick it back up from the side of the road. So lucky it did not land on someone. Even a little effort will keep something from sliding in common cases. As for me, I want my load tied down so that even if I have to leave the road at speed, it stays where I put it. I don't plan on running off of the road, but I will not hesitate to do so to avoid an accident, and I don't want to worry about whether my load stays put. If it is tied down that good, normal driving is no worry at all.
Now that's what I call rapid deployment... they gotta work on the landing though.
Back in March of this year I posted about log trucks coming out of California having the logs chained to the log bunks. I know for a fact that this was the rule 50 years ago when I worked in the woods. I now see trucks with 4 wrappers on log trucks and they are all around the load. Sorry for the misinformation. Jim
This is what we haul all the time, Its pretty much a non conforming load. Chains and binders tear the fiberglass. So we use 4"straps everywhere we can attach them. We also usually have state police escorts so the truck cops leave us alone.It costs us $400.00 for four hours but its worth it.
extra costs generally passed on down the line though? It sure looks like it would enjoy some training wheels.