Background: From my research I have concluded any vehicle and trailer combination capable of carrying 26,001 pounds or more needs a CDL driver. I am wanting to be able to trailer a Case 580CK backhoe weighing a educated guess of 10,000 pounds + or - 500 pounds on my 30' 14,000 pound capacity gooseneck trailer with my F250 Super Duty 7.3 diesel with 9,900 GVWR camper package. Trailer weighs 4,500 pounds empty. Truck rated to tow 14,000 pound trailer on fifth wheel. http://www.tractordata.com/industrial-tractors/000/1/0/102-ji-case-580-ck.html http://hillerford.com/resource_library/2001/2001trucks/2001f-250-350sd/2001f-2-3sdweightmain.htm A truck, trailer and load combination like that I am sure is going to draw some DOT scrutiny. I want to make sure I have everything covered. I live close to several truck stops with CAT scales to verify my axle weights and adjust the load accordingly. Now my question: If the officer looks at the door jam sticker and adds the GVWR (9,900) + the trailer capacity (14,000) then I am under CDL at 23,900. But if the officer adds the front axle GAWR (5,200) + rear axle GAWR (6,830) + the trailer capacity (14,000) then I am over CDL at 26,030. Which way will the DOT officer determine the combination weight capacity?
So you'd be close, but they go by the Combined gvw's, odd that the axle numbers would add up that way though, interesting. If this is for a business, and you charge for transport or are for hire, you should have a class C cdl anyway. If its you're own, and you go to shows or hobby about with it, you should be exempt as its not used in 'commerce' The tipping point is cgvw in excess of 26,001 and a trailer weight over 10,000 so you're not a class A.
No idea how they do it in Ohio but here they would use the loaded or gross weight of the trailer which is 4500 lbs +10,000 lbs = 14,500 lbs which would require a Class A licence. Of course here in Ontario it would all be in metric (kilograms).
I am curious, how would they know what the loaded weight is? Weighing the trailer tires would not give you an accurate reading due to the pin weight on the truck. Do they make you unhook from the truck?
As far as the CDL question goes, they look at the GVW of the truck,and the gvw of the trailer, add them together and if it's over 26,001 lbs., you need a CDL.I have never had them add to front and rear axles together. Now, if you have a 'homemade' trailer, they will weigh the truck and trailer together and if the two together weigh more than 26,001 lbs., you need a CDL. As far as pulling a 580ck with the set up you have, I, personally would not. A 580ck probably weighs closer to 15,000lbs.
The law says gross vehicle weight rating, not gross vehicle weight requires a CDL. That kind of tag weight is common nowadays. The manufacturer can declare the gvwr to be whatever they want it to be. They do that one at 9900 because at 10,001 you fall under FMCSA, medical card, logbook, safety equipment, etc. There are a lot of medium duty trucks out there whose axle ratings add up to 28-30,000 with a gvwr of 25999 or 26000, since a CDL starts at 26,001.
Now a single axle pickup towing a big trailer, sub that out for a horse or hay trailer, if you're in farm country, nobody will look twice. Federal CDL specs are well published, again you'd not need a cdl unless you're doing this commercially. In theory, a pizza delivery driver needs a class C cdl license, not so much in practice. Now every state can do their own wild stuff apart from CDL regs, ex, California says towing any trailer over 10k pounds requires a California class A license. Ohio may have the same.
Any trailer Rated for more than 10k! Trailer over 10k gvw is class A, even if its empty behind a half ton pickup. So your honda in the picture is a class a load in california.
The DOT will go by posted GVWR. The axle ratings may be higher, and that allows for the load to be not spread evenly over the axles, and still be in the axle rating. The rating they will go by is the 9900 + 14,000, or 23,900. I suspect you will be over that with the Case, and that is where the problem lies. Your truck empty is probably around 7,500, and the 4,500 trailer makes 12,000, but if you have much of anything like chains, tools, etc, in the truck, it brings the weight up fast. My similar truck was usually at 9,500 with tools and gear onboard. I would haul it, but by the letter of the law, you should not if it is over the 23,900 mark. The only way to be sure is to load it and weight it.
If the trailers GVW is over 10,000 lbs you need a CDL also. I know alot of guys that have 9,999LB GVW trailers for that reason
Just to clarify as this subject gets confusing for folks -that's in Cal., other States are different.
No. A CDL is needed if the combo is greater than 26K with the trailer being greater than 10K. A truck weighing exactly 26,000lbs pulling a trailer weighing exactly 10,000lbs would not need any sort of CDL. CDL questions are the most poorly answered of any question on the net http://apps.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/comlhdbk/comlhdbk.pdf Page 1
No read it again. Class C is limited to a 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26k or less. (single vehicle, no trailer) Trailers are limited to 10k and under GVWR, or up to 15k for 5th wheel travel trailers not for compensation. There is a ag exemption for combinations up to 26k gross. In the case of the OP his gooseneck is a 14k GVWR, which makes it a california class A load, empty behind a might max. No idea how ohio works. With that being said I dont think most of the people pulling loads like this have a class A, and I've never heard of anyone getting ticketed for it. But that is the letter of the law. As for your example knocker I agree, 26k truck with a 10k trailer is a class c load according to the way its written. Although I have been told different..... I do know that any truck over 26k with any size trailer is a class A rig here. There are a few companies here that have 33k trucks with very small ~5k car trailers that they rent to people to take the DMV class A test.
A point nobody has made is the location of the trailer axles with respect to the chassis. I would suspect that whichever way round you loaded a 580CK on that trailer the imposed weight on the gooseneck would put the rear axle of the truck over the maximum permitted 3100kg design axle weight. Just a thought.
i have your same set up pretty much truck wise with a 25ft triple axle gooseneck ill post a pic from today where i was working at i had to unload on the side of the road. ive been stopped before by dot and i have yet to be questioned about the weight, my trailer is rated for 18k and my 310sj i would estimate to be around 15-16k
Nige The OP mentioned scales to verify the axle weights, so it seems he has thought about that very thing. With the long trailer, the hoe may need to be loaded mostly to the rear, but I think it is doable. Also, the older Case CK machines are no where near as heavy as the newer machines.
Jerry, if I was the OP I think I would load the backhoe and then see what the scales said, especially the rear axle of the truck. 3100kg maximum doesn't give much wiggle room. As you say it might be a case of finding an exact location to load the hoe to keep the axle weights legal. I also think that the OP is a bit optimistic with the estimate of the weight of the hoe @ 10,000 pounds total.
the 10K trailer thing is actually federal if you read the laws close enough
Not in Alabama and the State has to go by the min Fed. standards. It's still the truck or the combination weight, truck and trailer over 26,001 or a truck with a GVW of 26,001 or greater pulling a trailer 10,0001 or greater. http://dps.alabama.gov/documents/manuals/cdlmanual.pdf Page 1-1 A 14k trailer and 11K truck = no CDL here.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5&guidence=y
Changes noted
i think he will need a cdl last time i weighed my set up i believe i was a bit over 27k and i have basically the same set as him although i think my newer backhoe is a bit heavier than the older cases it will still be close
No changes need, re-read my original post.:cool2
Nice set up you have with this picture. I like the ford.
thank you