I'm replacing the injection pump on a 924g serial number dda2420 and the timing instructions don't make sense to me. According to the instructions given to me from the dealer I have to set the number 1 to tdc by aligning all the timing marks on the gear train and then put the timing tool into the number 2 injector bore and rotate the engine to 4 degrees after tdc on number 2. The problem I'm having is that when I rotate the engine to get number 2 in the correct spot the timing pin to lock the pump doesn't line up. I have never had one timed like this so I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if something is just off. At this point I think it may be me that's off.....anyone have any advice or experience with this?
I don't know from nuttin', but it seems to me that the timing tool would be installed in #1, else what's the point of lining up the timing marks in the first place? Never seen an engine didn't time on #1, but hey, I'm willing to learn if one of the CAT gurus pops up....
That's what I'm thinking too, I have changed quite a few injection pumps and never heard of timing on number two. It actually says number 2 or number 5 if that injector is easier to remove.
You have a DELPHI inj. pump.. the drive on the pump is locked @ # 1 cylinder.. use #1 cyl. on the engine..
Sorry I just assumed it was a Delphi.. if its keyed, don't worry about it.. get me some # off the name plate or snap a pic of the pump drive..
That sounds like a good plan to me. I wonder who at cat made the instructions for this haha
I don't know if it is keyed or not, the hub is already installed on the new pump. I will take a picture and try to post in a few minutes
Pump says it's a Bosch but you would know better than me
Well if this helps explain it: For what ever reason they appear to be using a tool that positions #2/#5 at a point that in effect IS setting #1 at 4º hope that makes sense
Maybe I just misread it then, it looked to me like it said that it was putting number 2 at 4 degrees. That's what had me confused, I couldn't understand why go thru all the trouble of setting number 1 at tdc just to move it all again. Thanks for the replies, you guys are awesome
Yeah, thats a Bosch.. the drive is not keyed, the hole in the housing lines up w/ the slot & insert a timing pin or drill bit.. Your gear should have a hole in it also to acomodate the pin.. its all set at 12:00
On a side note>> THATS WHY its so important to time your engine BEFORE pulling a pump.. Had you set the engine on #1 & pinned it at 12:00.. you'd be golden.. we all learn from our mistakes.. WELL... some of us do.. LOL We'll know better next time.. RIGHT?
I did pin the old pump at 12:00 with the gears timed so I'm just gonna pin the new one and install after I set the cylinder at 4 degrees. The pump was replaced a few years ago if memory serves me right, maybe timing was slightly off before and that's why the pin doesn't drop in at 4 degrees. You are correct though, always time before removing the pump, that is a lesson I learned the hard way on my first pump lol
Well I think I can answer my question about why they are using #2/#5 cylinder to determine the timing. Took a bit of a distraction of clearing my mind by going out and doing some trim mowing in the yard! Using the position of the piston on those cylinders is actually more accurate than trying to do it on #1. The reason would be that when #1 is getting close to the 4º position the movement of the piston is much less for each degree the crank moves than that of the #2/#5 piston. If we were talking about setting a timing dimension of 15 to 20 degrees it would be less critical. One has to remember that even when running at a steady speed a piston has to accelerate then decelerate and reverse directions every 180º turn of the crank. Hope that makes a little sense the way I worded it. And if you want to get even more confused take a look at this page some interesting things in there that one might not have thought about before! http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/piston_motion_basics.htm
Hansen, are you high?? lol
here is some photo of the timing tool
I understand what you are saying about the movement of the piston, it just threw me off when they said number two. I usually don't think about these things while mowing though lol.... I have the tool, got it from the cat dealer, they sure are proud if that little thing
Why just because I answer the questions I was asking. I often talk to myself and even then it can be tough to get anyone to pay attention!
I too have the pins but when I cant put my hands on them or someone "forgot" to put them back.. I just use the back end of a drill bit for the pump..
You know the more I think about this I know why it didnt line up correctly, whoever did this before didn't have the timing probe so they must have just set it directly at tdc and called it good. Explains why it always was a little smoky anyways. I was also mowing when I thought about that hahaha
Sometimes the best thing is to walk away from a problem and do something somewhat mindless to let the brain do it's work with out being interrupted by your "thinking"! I'd mention some of my best ideas come to me while taking a shower, but thepumpguy would probably make so wise remark about that
LOL.. ANYBODY I work with will/can tell you about how many times I've woke up in the middle of the nite & went into work to fix something that was kickin my ass, that I FIXED IN MY SLEEP.. 12-1-2- or 3AM after working a 8-10hr shift.. My time card will show its true.. lol.. & I HOPE YOU KNOW I'm just pullin your chain?? I "thought" we were kool like dat..lol
kool here! And I to have figured out things in bed, dang it that came out wrong! And that too! Like they say when you find yourself in a hole the best thing is to stop digging! I stop!
I usually end up having an epiphany at the weirdest moments and then it drives me crazy because I cant just go back and test my "theory". Then whenever I get back to the machine I forgot what the epiphany was haha
There have been times when I find that answer and to be safe I have gotten up in the middle of the night to jot down enough to remind me of the solution the next morning.
I think I can explain... ( to time the pump at 4* BTDC) The new pump will timed correctly to the gear hub from manufacturer . You could line up the timing marks , or use a dial indicator on number six valve to find exact overlap. Mark crank balancer to front cover for tdc. Determine the diameter of the balancer then divide by 360 and multiply by 4. Take that measurement and mark 4* BTDC on the balancer. used a string to account for the curve. Roll engine slightly opposite of rotation , then come back in normal rotation direction until 4* mark lines up. Install pump with timing pin lined up. As far as the timing using cly 2 , because it may be easier to get than 1. Because piston 2 would be in the middle of its travel you would measure 4* of piston travel, rather than 4* before TDC ON piston 2. 4* travel on 2 would be the same as 4* BTDC on 1. The special tool may be nessesary to accomplished using 2 to time.
I think you meant "Circumference" of the crank balancer not Diameter ... Circumference is the distance around the balancer. Diameter is the distance side to side across the center. Mathematically, the Circumference is equal to Diameter x 3.14
Yes, left that Pi part out.
I'm starting to think that this machine is possibly the devil in disguise lol, after all the fuel system repairs it runs great........but won't move now. Always something isn't it.
So after a new fnr control, new injection pump, lift pump, fuel lines, filters, voltage protection module, numerous blown hyd hoses, timing cover, crank seal, water pump, and a whole lot of bad words the loader runs perfect and moves in all gears again.......TGIF hahahahaha
Yeah! Just needed to shoot the parts cannon!!!!
there was a few times where I wished I had a cannon lol