I'm in the market of a used medium duty, Class 6 truck. I'm looking at either pre-2007/2008 diesels or gas. The VT365/6.0 is the engine in the International 4200 and also used in the medium duty Fords from the early 2000s, although the CAT 3126/C7 is more common in the Fords. The DT466 is used in the International 4300 from that time period, but there aren't that many Class 6 4300s, the 4200 is more popular as Class 6. Based on the Ford 6.0 Powerstroke issues, I was skipping the VT365. I been coming across some International 4200s in good condition and I would like to go with an International. I've looked into the VT365 closer and it doesn't seem as bad as I thought. From what I read the VT365 has less issues than the 6.0 PS. Head bolts would likely be ok on a stock VT365 and it looks like the EGR cooler upgrade and maybe a new OEM oil cooler would be the two key bulletproofing items. There are also a ton of videos out there and I might even tackle the upgrades myself. What are the thoughts on the VT365? Other options out there would be a CAT 3126 or Cummins 5.9 24V in a Ford and then the T444E in the International 4700s the model before the 4200. I would probably take a Cummins 5.9 24V and the T444E, the CAT 3126 and the VT365 I'm not sure about. The CAT 3126 seems like a decent engine, it is the potential reliance on CAT service and parts costs that makes me hesitate. Not sure what to make of the VT365? Thanks in advance for any feedback.
I would stay away from all of them except the 5.9. Around here the 3126s were just plain bad. VT365 never popular, too wimpy. T444E too old. The main thing is with a 5.9 everybody knows how to work on them and they will have support for decades to come. The others are techno weird quirky engines and their time has passed.
I have a lot of experience with the 6.0, if they have a lot of hours I would stay away as idle kills all engines. If it has been touched a lot I would stay away as well. There's a lot you can look at to see if you have a good engine. The international version is lower power so head gaskets should last longer but the real reason they blow is tuning and the EGR, and most of the times it's a bad EGR cooler and not head gaskets
Thanks for the info. Yes, definitely looking at the Cummins 5.9, I do see many 12V in the older Fords, but those trucks tend to be pretty beat up. 24v's in the 2000s on up are less common. I think Ford in the 2000s was offering a 7.3, 3126 Cat, the 5.9 24v and then even some VT365/6.0s. Seems like the 3126 was the most popular. I've driven a couple F650s from the early 2000s and their decent, the SD cab seems ok. For hours, I'm running into 3000-4000 on the low end, many in the 6000-8000 range and then on up to say 12,000 or so. Service trucks seem to have the highest idle hours from what I'm seeing. I know there are many factors at play, but how many hours can you expect from these non-sleeved engines. Given my seasonally usage, I could live with another 1500-2000 hours left before rebuild/replacement.
The 3126 is not necessarily a bad base engine but it is too high tech and tends to have HEUI problems, also will suck a valve if overrevved and other types of very technical and expensive failures. Also frustrating lack of torque and high revs to make it go. The 5.9 is better in this regard. But the 3126 is a higher displacement/higher power/higher class of medium duty engine than the 5.9 which is the entry level size. What you really want is an 8.3 Cummins but you did not mention it, I assume you are not finding any.
finally got around to it.
Yep a 5.9 or 6.7 is too light of a engine e here in the pa hills for a medium duty. We have a 6.7 in a f750 it really does well besides having to have it pinned to the wood 24/7 and if it makes 150000 with out needing a rebuild I'll be surprised. (Tho till then it will be the year 2047)
I agree with the others, 5.9 Cummins and VT365 are just too small for a medium duty truck, T444e is better but borderline. About all those little engines are good for is predominately stationary work like a bucket truck or really light loads like a furniture delivery truck in town. DT466e or 8.3 Cummins are about the only really good options, but you might have to look for a slightly older truck to find one.
I'm looking to stay at 26k lb GVWR, 8k front, 17.5 k rear would be pretty common specs. I have come across some 10k/19k rated axles with a GVWR derate to 25,950/999 lbs. I have a Class B CDL, however, I figure I'm better off staying at 26k so others can drive if needed. I can live with 6-7 tons of capacity since the truck will serve multiple roles and an extra ton or two capacity isn't going to make much difference in how I'll use the truck (not always max'ing out load capacity). If I need more than 12-14 tons of say stone (2 trips) for a job, than I'm likely ordering a tandem load (16-18 tons). I can likely hold out for a DT466E - but they are not that common in International 26k lb trucks, much more likely to find a T444E or the newer VT365. 8.3 Cummins... I don't run into many of those at all, maybe some older Ford F800s with 30k+ lb GVWRs. Lower weight F800s and F700s are all 5.9s. For bigger displacement, I would say it would a DT466E in an International 4300 or a CAT 3126 in a Ford F650/750 with a 26k GVWR. More common at 26k GVWR would be the International 4200 with the VT365/6.0 or a Ford with a 24V 5.9 Cummins. GMC/Chevy c6500s are also likely to be CAT 3126/C7. In fact, I looked at a low mileage Ford F750 with a 3126 and 6 spd a few weeks ago. Everything was good, but I had trouble pulling the trigger on the CAT 3126. Reviews on the 3126 seem to overall positive, but it seems like it will be higher cost engine to operate/maintain. If that truck had a Cummins 5.9 24V instead, I likely would have bought it. Passing up on the 3126, I would have to wait it out on finding a 26K lb DT466E International. Otherwise it's likely an International 4200 with the VT365 or a Ford with a 24V 5.9. If I go older, there are plenty of T444Es out there, mostly in Internationals, but you find one in a Ford F650 every once in a while.
I wouldn’t be afraid of a 3126B. I had a fleet of them spread all over the state, being abused, chronically overloaded, in the bush, idling all winter. Little maintenance. Easy to work on. Easy to get parts. Easy to find people to work on them. But, I’m a cat guy, so there’s that. Tell me I’m wrong, but I think 3126B swing engines are still relatively inexpensive. Considering clown world 2024. Last one I purchased was $7k in 22. I’d be more concerned about the Ford chassis.
Must be regional, around here probably 80% of the IH 4700 and 4300 (class 6) have the DT466E. I own a '00 4700 25.5K gvwr with a DT466 and air brake and my father has a '98 IH 4700 25.5K gvwr with DT466 and hyd brakes. As for the Fords, I forget what year but they dropped the number and just started calling them "F-series", must have been early/mid 90s, you'll often find 8.3 Cummins in those. I don't think they ever put them in the F650/750 superduty.
Reminiscing about all the old IH trucks in my life. From Maui to Dutch Harbor. How is the world going to keep spinning, once they all finally rot away?
I thought we were talking about trucks in the 33k range, in the 26k range I would not worry so much about a 5.9 being too small. But I don't know what your hills are like.