Could you guys please take a look at this temperature gauge? does it look too hot to you? Does yours sit around the same spot when running? This photo is after sitting for a few minutes. It was a weeny bit hotter while I was driving but still within the white zone. Is it easy to add an aftermarket gauge to get a more accurate reading?
I wouldn't expect it to get that high at this time of year. How hard was it working? Temperature will often rise after it has been sitting for a few minutes due to no air flow through the radiator. But if it was hotter than in the picure while you were actually driving then I think it would be worth checking out. Just check some of the simple things like making sure the radiator core is not blocked up, and that the fan belts are tight. If it has a viscous fan hub, make sure there is some resistance and that it doesn't just spin freely. Did the engine seem hot? An easy aftermarket temperature gauge is to fit an engine watchdog. Search Ebay for TM2 ENGINE GUARDIAN WATCHDOG TEMP OVERHEATING ALARM "Aussie Made" It will measure temperature of the metal of the engine, so that if you blow a hose and lose all your coolant it will still work. Normal coolant sensors do not work unless covered in coolant. The engine watchdog sounds an alarm when engine gets higher than whatever preset temperature you choose is exceeded. It's cheap insurance compared to having an engine failure as well as being a good monitoring tool.
when the engine is running the belts do look a bit wobbly, I guess they could be a bit loose, but the fan is certainly spinning. It wasn't working very hard, just a fifteen minute trip around the block after replacing the front wheel bearings and brake linings. No load in the back. That unit looks pretty good. What temperature is yours set to? I only asking because I'm not sure where the normal range is. How do you check if the core is blocked up?
I don't actually have a temperature watchdog unit on the truck. So I can't really give an indication of what temperature to set one at. Each vehicle is different, and it also depends on where you bolt the sensor onto the engine. The other vehicles that I have a watchdog on, I just set it really high for a start, and then when I get to know where is normally sits, set it about 5 degrees higher than the normal range. The outside of the radiator core, look through from front to back and you should be able to see through the fins, no dirt, grass, etc blocking airflow. The inside of the radiator core is a bit harder to see, but you may be able to get a small mirror and a torch and look down inside the filler neck and look for rust blocking the water tubes, but you wont be able to see it all.
Did Ford use real guages in the trucks? Passenger cars and light duty trucks are equipped with the "idiot" guage (a glorified idiot light. Doesn't tell you anything usefull until it is too late since it won't move much until one extreme or the other is reached). Looking at that guage, it appears to be one, the white band is technically the green zone. Since it is a new to you truck, it may be normal guage behavior. Do you have a handheld infrared thermometer? If you do, shoot the thermostat housing, the area where the temperature sender is, and take mental notes of that temp and what the guage is showing at various stages of engine temp from cold as its warming up to the point where you are wondering if its still safe. If you are seeing normal temps on the handheld, don't worry about it. Alex.
I was kinda hoping it was the gauge. I did drive about 1.5 hours when I was bringing the truck home and sat up there all the way. What would be considered normal temps for a truck like this? Also where would I find the temp sensor? cheers, Nick
Tighten the fan belts if they're wobbly. That is your problem I think. Also, check to see if the pulleys are worn out. Put wider belts on if they are or replace the pulleys, according to your intended use of the truck. Those gauges usually work or they don't, not in between. The halfway mark is normal operating temperature in 78F degree day in my opinion with a mfr rated load on flat ground at mfr rated speed.
Thanks d9gdon, will do.
You never have said if it's a gas or diesel engine.
Its a diesel,cat3208
The white band is normal for those Ford gauges. One thing that makes them go higher is low system voltage. I was driving our L8000 one day with the headlights on and the heater on high. The temperature gauge showed it was overheating while pulling a long slow hill. Turning off the lights and fan put it right back in the normal range. Check that the radiator is not plugged both inside and outside and that the thermostats are OK and then you can pretty much be assured it is a crummy factory gauge....
If that is an accurate reading of your coolant temperature then it is too high. First thing to do is check your thermostat, if it does not open fully then you will get a hot engine, it may also be the wrong spec but that is unusual. Generally an engine should be between 80-90 Degrees C. Also wash the radiator with mild pressure water (garden hose) and compressed air. Dirt/dust build up on the fins will act as an insulator. Used to drive an old ACCO 3070A with a 903 Cummins, that beast had the radiator real low and it used to block up something shocking, often when you drove it in overdrive it would boil over and I would have to go back to direct to cool it off. It will also pay to replace your coolant hoses if they are old, whilst you are working on the cooling system. Another culprit is the water pump, take the belts off and spin the pump to see if it turns nice and free. Basically the way I look at it, you spend money now on preventative maintenance or spend money later when it is sitting on the side of the road with a cooked engine. If it gets this hot without a load, I'd hate to see what it would do with a load up a hill on a hot WA day.
On a hot day, pulling a load, then I would expect it to go this high. But not in the winter with no load. I think these gauges are not too bad, unless this one is not working properly.
Yeah well, that's why I indicated that the operating temp for an engine is between 80-90 celcius, with an infrared thermometer or a automotive multimeter with temperature function, it should be possible to determine the actual operating temperature of the engine. Once it is determined that the gauge is accurate or not, steps can be taken.
The gauge stopped working yesterday. I started up the engine to fill the air tanks to check the air shift system and the smoke started coming out of dash board. It melted a bunch of wires. I rewired it all back the way it was with new wire, started it up again, it was fine for ten minutes and then one mire melted again. The one that melted goes into a multipin connector behind the gauges so it was the only one I couldn't replace properly. anyway now the temp gauge doesn't work anymore. I think if I reconnect it again the same will happen. One of those watchdogs is looking pretty good right now.
An infrared thermometer is a good check to start with. The watchdog I suggested also measures the temperature of the engine, but you don't have to stop and open the bonnet to do it. You can monitor the temperature continuously, up hills, coasting, idling, under load, etc, plus you have the benefit of the alarm.
Maybe you should check the fuses, that they are the correct rating. There should be one to protect the gauges wiring. It is possible that someone has fitted a fuse that is a higher rating than it should be. A fuse should blow before the wiring melts. It is also possible that someone has repaired the wiring at some stage, and now it bypasses the fuse. Anyway sounds like you have a short, look for places where a wire has rubbed through and shorted out to earth. I hope you turn off your battery isolator when you are not using the truck.
yep I have been using the isolator. it just seems a bit odd that it has been fine for a few weeks and now suddenly it all melted. I will check the fuses tomorrow. I've ordered a watchdog. Where do you think would be the best place to mount the sensor?
also I was squeezing the radiator bottom hose today and it felt like it had something inside it. Would it be a spring or something in there? thats what it felt like.
Probably happened suddenly because you have a new short that has only just happened. The watchdog will come with some mounting instructions, like try to keep away from too much air flow from the fan, there may be some other suggestions. I would try to find a bolt somewhere on one of the heads, near the back of the engine. Don't use an exhaust manifold bolt as the reading will be abnormally high. Don't use an intake manifold bolt either as the holes on them are slotted and you won't get good metal contact. There may be a bolt holding on a lifting bracket or something like that which will be suitable.
Its common for the bottom hose to have a spring inside, it prevents it from being sucked flat.
On an older machine it is quite possible that at some stage someone has wired up something, two way or radio, and botched it up. Then that auxiliary equipment is taken out and the wiring left in place. Eventually it wears through the insulation and causes a short. Had this happen in a harvester, driving it from one end of the property to the other, happily minding my own business, chomping on a sandwich, suddenly the cab fills with nasty smoke, stopped the machine, raced round the back and had the battery terminals of in 5 seconds flat. Previous owner had wired up a two way radio and taken out radio before selling machine but left the wiring.
I installed my temperature watchdog yesterday. thanks for the tip Plant Fitter, what a great device. I took my truck for a drive this afternoon, but the temp only got up to 53 celsius. I drove for about 20 minutes, quite a bit longer than when I got the above temperature on the old gauge. I also drove up some rather large hills to try and push the temp up a bit. I worried I might have my sensor in the wrong place. the blue spot inside the blue circle is the sensor. I was thinking of trying near that water hose (red circle) I guess that would be pretty hot water coming out of there just before it goes into the radiator. any thoughts or suggestions?
It looks like where you have it is on a tappet cover bolt. It wouldn't get a very good reading there as it is not really touching an actual engine component. Your other suggestion is probably not all that good either as it would get too much wind blown on it from the fan which may give a false reading. Try not to think about getting a reading where the water would be hot. The main idea of this unit is to measure metal temperature, the temperature of the engine, not the temperature of the water. Then if you lose all your water quickly like if a radiator hose blows, your alarm will sound. So think about what would get hot first if you lost your water. For me, the best place to put it is on the head somewhere, as this will get hot fast if you lose your water, and it will also give a good indication of the engine temperature when nothing is wrong. If there is no place on the head, maybe try a spot neat the top of the block. I would have a good look in the "valley" The valley is the V between the 2 heads. If you can find a spot in there it will be out of the direct fan wind and away from the exhaust manifold. Look for a bolt or even an un-used threaded hole that you can screw a bolt into. You might need a mirror to have a good look. If you find a good spot in there, take the bolt out and scratch all the paint off where the sensor will touch to ensure good heat transfer. There may be a bracket somewhere designed for lifting the head or engine that you can remove and then use one of the bolt holes from that. I'll try to have a look at mine to try to find a good spot but it probably wont be for a few days.
Just an idea from a picture I found on the internet. Your engine wont have the bracket for the filter like this one does. So if nothing else is bolted on there, you might be able to use the threaded holes, you just have to get a bolt to suit. You might have to carefully file out the hole in the sensor, there should be some instructions with the unit that tell you how to go about it.
OK I've moved the sensor into the V. I really use those bolts like the picture above because the air compressor was on top and the fuel pump is sitting in the V at that point. I found a 7/16" bolt hole further back about the same height as the hole you suggested Plant Fitter. I did the same run as last week, about 15 or 20 min driving up and down the local hills. The temp got up to 79. Is that still sounding a bit low or is it in the ball park. When I stopped I got out and felt the radiator, it was pretty warm, I couldn't keep my hand on it but it didn't burn me to touch it.... I wasn't looking forward to filing out the sensor but it wasn't that bad really, 3 or 4 min with a round b*****d and it was done.
If you have another look at the picture, it is looking at the back of the engine, see the bell housing, thats where your gearbox bolts on. The fuel pump is fitted to the engine in the picture, its at the front of the V, you can just see the top of the fuel solenoid. So you probably did use one of the bolt holes shown in the picture? I think 79 degrees celcius sounds about right. As you drive the truck over the next few trips you will get a feeling for what temperature it is going to sit at. Then you can set the alarm a few degrees higher. Then when summer comes you may find that you have to raise it a bit. A Landcruiser runs at around 75 - 80 most of the year but up to 90 on very hot days.
Oops, I did ponder which end it was and couldn't really work it out. I looked at the exhaust manifold and figured it was the back. Thanks for all your help with this. So yes it must be in one of those holes, there was quite a few to choose from. Well that is good news. I will keep an eye on it over the next little while and see where it sits. Thanks again!! I guess the next question would be, what do you do when the alarm goes off? I thinking if the fan is turning, don't turn the motor off, keep it running and see if it cools down? How hot is too hot?
I still have a screwed up fingernail from when a wrench slipped trying to get a temperature sender out of a 3208. If I recall I had to drill it out in the end anyway. I did some research on the 3208 and found that originally the maximum coolant out temperature specified was 210°F (99°C) but they revised it up to 220°F (104°C). I don't know if that applies to all engines or just the later ones. Keep in mind that the thermostats only modulate during light load. At heavy load they generally run wide open and the size of the radiator is engineered to be "just right" so to speak, to keep the engine temperature within spec. The hotter the water gets the, greater the temperature differential to the outside air, the faster heat leaves the radiator. The fan should come on if it is too hot. I expect you have a thermostatic silicone-type fan clutch, right? It needs to be working. You should hear it come on like an airplane propeller, of course on a hot day when pulling a heavy load, but also occasionally when taking off from a stop sign or something when the truck was suddenly stopped and the radiator continued putting out heat. If you don't hear this sort of action, then the clutch is probably not working. If the alarm comes on, so long as it has water and the fan is operational, take your foot out of it and pull over, and run the engine at 1200 RPM or so in neutral to keep the fan and water pump spinning. But it should not come on unless you are operating outside normal parameters such as a very long, steep grade out of a rock pit on a 100° day, wide open at like 5 mph and even that will take many minutes before the temperature climbs that far out of range.
Thanks Birken, I'm pretty sure my fan runs all the time. I haven't ever seen the truck running with the fan off. Is this bad or likely to cause me problems?
If it is a viscous type fan it will have a big finned aluminum thing in the center. You should be able to turn the fan when the engine is off, with some viscous drag feeling. If the engine is running it will always be spinning, you can't tell the difference by sight, just by sound. If it is solid drive that should be obvious.
Just remember that you are not measuring the temperature of the coolant. You are measuring the temperature of the steel. The temperature of the coolant is probably a little bit higher. Don't worry too much about what the actual number is, just work out what its normal range is and then you will know when there is something wrong. If the alarm comes on, and it is not working hard and it is not a hot day, you know there is a problem and you have to investigate straight away. If it comes on and it is a hot day, then ease off the power a bit, or pull over and run at about 1200 or so to see if it drops down, if the temperature continues to climb, you have a problem. However if the alarm comes on often on hot days, then you need to set it a few degrees higher. Remember that you can set the alarm to whatever temperature you want.
Ideally you want to mount the sensor where the original temp sensor is, that's what Cat decided was the place. However 79 C sounds about on the mark for an empty truck on a coolish day, particularly as it looks like you have direct coupled fan, which means you rely on the thermostat alone for temp control. Many moons ago I helped build a dirt road on a farm and the contractors had an ancient truck, think it was an IH? Anyway this beasty had cool looking louvres in front of the radiator, much to my surprise these louvres opened and shut to control air flow through the radiator. Obviously this technology was superseded by viscous and electric radiator fan clutches but it looked pretty funky when the moved, like the truck was alive.
Hendrik, mate, I dont think you are quite up with the program here. The temperature sensor that he has fitted is to measure the temperature of the metal, not the temperature of the coolant. Sure, the location of the original temperature sensor is the best place to measure coolant temperature. But not necessarily the best place to measure metal temperature. The advantage of this unit, is that not only does it monitor engine temperature when the engine is operating correctly, but also that if you lose all your coolant, the metal will get hot and the alarm will go off. If you lose all your coolant with a regular temperature sensor, it is useless once it doesn't have any coolant surrounding it. So the best place for Nick to fit the sensor is somewhere on the main engine that will get hot if you lose your coolant. It also has to be in a place that is out of the main air flow from the fan. Not on the thermostat housing or timing cover or anywhere like that like where the coolant sensor has been located by Cat. I am somewhat annoyed as it would appear you have not bothered to look at the posts I have contributed to this thread. Might as well just type any old rubbish or some such thing but why should I, no one will read it. See below, 3 times I have explained it but you still dont seem to get it:
Today I took it for a drive to pickup 2 cubes of soil for my garden so not a big load at all. Coming back up the hill it hit 86 degrees. It went back down to the high 70's when the road flattened out. Do you still think this is withing normal parameters? I'll keep watching over the next few days and if anything interesting happens.
Have you checked and cleaned out the radiator core as suggested? Have you felt for slight drag of the viscous fan as suggested?
The outside of the radiator looks pretty good, I'm not sure how clean the inside. I haven't checked the fan yet, first thing tomorrow I will take a look at it.
Hey that's my line, get your own. I would think that the original temp sensor would be in one of the heads, so I am suggesting that the sensor is mounted somewhere near the original temp sensor, if something does happen the heads will get hotter quicker than the block, anyway looks like a nice spot was found for it.
I just tried turnigng the fan and it does turn with the engine off. I suppose it has a slight drag, but I'm no expert. There is no way I would hear it when the truck is on because it is so loud. I think the muffler has been shrunk to accommodate a larger bowl.
Sounds fine to me...your still well below 99* which was said earlier to be max. My personal stop point for any motor is 215*f, dont know what that works out to in Celsius, probably around 103*? Personally i would install a real mechanical temp gauge with the sensor in the original location that way you actually know what the engine is running at, not what the bolt that that washer thing is hooked to is reading.
At least now you know that somebody is reading your posts. Yes the head is the best place to put it, but there are no nice bolts to use on the heads, thats the trouble. I'm pretty sure the original temp sensor is at the front of the engine, in the timing cover or thermostat housing or somewhere there.
You wont hear any change in sound from the fan on this particular truck, as you say, there is too much other noise.
Yes the engine watchdog is only really designed as a backup. Fitting a mechanical gauge is a good idea to monitor the engine while everything is going as normal. A mechanical gauge will not work unless the sender is covered in coolant, so the metal temperature sensing watchdog alarm is still a good backup to have.
Even if it looks pretty good, it is good practise to clean it out from time to time anyway. Even a layer of dust prevents effective dissipation of heat. You may be able to have a look down inside the radiator, through the filler, using a torch and/or a small mirror, to see if you can see any rust or dirt or mud blocking the tubes inside the core. If there is a bit of muck in there you can sometimes get it to shift by adding some "radiator flush" which can be bought from most auto parts shops, running it for a while and draining it out, then filling with water, running and flushing until the system is clean, then filling with new coolant.
This may or may not be true. The 3208 is a relatively quiet motor. The exhaust might be too loud, though. I replaced a fan clutch on a C8000 with a 3208 and I could hear it when it came on but somebody new at the game might not be able to notice it so well. We now have an L8000 like this one with a Ford 7.8L engine and I can tell pretty clearly when it comes on as well.
I sometimes where ear muffs on long drives because its so loud in the cab.
What's that I can't hear you, funny how when you get older you prefer quieter gear. Probably not a lot of sound proofing in those medium duty machines, not sure if you have a truck wrecker near where you are but might pay to see if they have a bigger muffler to suit. I picked up a factory exhaust system for my Missybitchy truck for 200 bucks, complete from exhaust brake to top of stack and the bracket to hold the muffler to the chassis.
We have a pretty decent wrecker close by called Just Louisville. I had a chat to the bloke about it but unfortunately the tipper body is so close to the cab that getting a bigger muffler isn't really an option.
What is your recomendation on Just Louisville? I have found them on the internet but never had to use them as yet. Do they seem like they would be good to deal with and trustworthy for an honest description of their second hand parts?
I'm probably a bit rookie to pass judgement, but Michael is certainly a lot friendlier than the next closest truck wrecker. He knows his stuff and he seems quite happy to discuss things and has given me advice over the phone a few times. He also found a hub nut for my front left stubb axle when the old one was damaged after a bearing collapse. I only really have experience with two truck wreckers and compared to the other one he was a whole lot better. I think you should be alright. He's literally a 10min drive if you'd like me to have a look at something for you, or take a photo.
I don't need anything at the moment. Thanks for the offer, I will keep it in mind for the future.