What do you guys think. I have always been A Kobelco guy. We run JD dozers and our sales guy for JD stopped at our job site today to check in. We casually mentioned that we are buying a new 170 and he started raping my ear with John Deere info. I will say they seem to have a good machine and there is no doubt they are offering a good deal. Does any one have any experience on either of the two machines I mentioned above and/or an opinion.
I haven't tried out the latest Kobelco's, but from my pas experience, you'll spend a few minutes in the JD, and never look back.
The 160 digs like a rocket, well so does the 170... The Kobelco in my opinion (be it skewed) seems to have all the technology in their new models that the Hitachi/Deere had in their previous models. Just my opinion.
Well my opinion is skewed too, JD is nice. The excavators dig nicely and have lots of power. IMHO I'd prefer Deere/Hitatchi for large excavators. Do you guys like to run hyd. QC's and thumbs or no?
I have always liked the Koblecos mainly for the lack of computers being involved with the controls. I want my wrists to control the input not a computer. The deere makes me nervous simply because it has those torque sensors that monitor when the power "comes on". What can you guys tell me about those. Do you notice the lack of power when you don't need it. I got to make a decision this weekend and I am going nuts
I could tell you tons of technical stuff about the 160, but I think you should just demo one first. If your salesman is smart he will have no problem getting a demo for you, if they dont have the machine you could always do a 6mo RPO. If you dont like it after 6mos send her on her way, will cost you only rental fees.
I've ran Deere's from the 17C to a Hitachi 450, and a couple Kobelcos. All I have to say is Deere/Hitachi all the way especially the new D series, talk about slingin some dirt now!
This is a great tool! You don't notice that you need help until you are starting to dig. So basically the machine digs fine without it, there's no sense of lack of power and then when you take an exceptionally large scoop or are digging in hard clay (like what I've done) it will kick in and it's great. But like ncbschzzt said, just demo it, you'll be impressed. The computers don't make it feel like you're not operating like you mentioned.
I was just thinking. The sales rep said that deere is now making their own machines. I looked on deere and hitachis web site and they still are the same. Are the "c's" different then the "d's". The main reason I am asking this is because the dealer only has a "c" and I will not be able to demo the "d" for a month or so. We are either considering a 6 month or a 12 month rent to own. Kobelco will only do two months and then on top of that they will not guarantee a good interest rate.(now it is 2.7%). It could easily go way high with in those two months.
As of right now I'm pretty sure that Hitachi is still making Deere excavators. It has been discussed that Deere would like to make their own, but right now it is still Hitachi I believe. The D's have improved visibility from the cab (especially your right side) and have updated some engine related stuff. I however am not 100% sure because I have not had the opportunity to use a D. Can you take the 160C LC for now and then when the D comes in swap? I'd do that, sounds like Kobelco is guaranteeing anything good. Sounds like Deere is treating you very nicely.
My father recently purchased a new Volvo 160. He said it was cheaper and more powerful then the JD 160D Don't know personally just going by what he said. I haven't been in it much just to move it around a bit. Didn't get the chance to do much real digging. The from what I can tell is a nice machine but we have lots of good luck with hitachi/deere. I think I would have picked the deere personally but it is his money not mine
There is a substantial difference from the C series to the D's with the Deere. Visibility is one huge thing with the D's. But then again... the C series was definately no slouch of a machine.
What about volvo's 160
If the Kobelco 170 is anything like the 210, I'm on the fence about the new Kobelco's. We have a new 210 at the training grounds, got to run it a little. The swing is terrible, I hated it. You roll the stick over and it waits and waits to swing, then it has a 2 speed swing gearbox I was told and it flat takes off after a while. Not particularly what I like. I'd like the machine to swing quick immediately, at least not unbearably slow like this 210 was. The 2 speed swing is pointless, by the time she speeds up, you're already there. Having waited 4 or 5 seconds to get 180 degrees, you don't need the 2nd speed swing by that time. Other than that, nice machine. I hear Cat's new 315D is a firecracker, had a 325D for Top Hand last weekend. I didn't get a chance to run it, heard it was a smooth ride. Can't go wrong with Deere/Hitachi, though.
a new kobelco sk170lc-8 is sweat! setup by a dealer properly in the adjustments within the screens... you would not be disappointed. i have been to kobelco's factory calhoun georgia and was introduced to the new models... if they were out 5-10 years prior, with this new hydraulics and electronics, kobelco would have had the market. from experience with kobelco's (over 450 sold from our dealership alone) if you service the filters and oils, grease when you should the machine will take care of itself. they are reliable units. http://www.robertgreenequipment.com/
What are your local weight laws? Most 16 ton machines try to stay at 37,000# due to axle loads on tow behind trailers and dump trucks. Deere did not get the message and weighs almost 40,000# verses just over 37,000 for the Kobelco and the Kobelco still out lifts the Deere by one ton at 15' per DEERE Comparison data. Watch out for Volvo lift charts..fine print...no bucket installed!!! Only one in industry with that trick! There may be trouble in Deere town. Hitachi does make or lisence the Deere machine. Hitachi just entered into a joint agreement for loaders with TCM and Kawasaki...NOT DEERE!!! Something is up here! Interesting story about the two speed swing gearbox on Kobelco...not true. You can make it happen with a special set of movements. Is part of the standard swing priority circuit to crowd the side of a ditch for side cutting. No need for a button like old Cat "Trenching Mode? But no such two speed box.
The speculation that Deere and Hitachi are on the outs due to another joint venture that Hitachi as entered is somewhat short sided. Lets look at what Hitachi and Kawasaki have to gain in a joint venture such as this. The main reason for this JV, according to Kawasaki Construction Machinery(KCM) is to share technology for T-IV emissions. This makes sense because neither company has its own engine line. It also injects cash into KCM of America which is a company that is considered a short line company (like Kobelco). It also allows Hitachi some interest in the wheel loader market in NA, albeit only 34% of KCM shares. What would Deere and Hitachi have to gain from a JV on wheel loaders? Deere has an extremely well established market share in WL in north amercia as well as a strong dealer network and full product line. Deere also has its own line of engines with its own strategy for iT-IV and T-IV Final. Hitachi is in the same position with parts of the world outside of North America. I see no real advantage for either party so the Hitachi-KCM JV makes sense to me. Sorry for jumping somewhat off task here. Back to the original topic....160D vs Kobelco 170. First...the 160 just like all 120's through 350's from Deere are not built BY Hitachi, but rather part of a Deere-Hitachi joint venture in Kernersville NC where both yellow and orange excavators are built. They are different by cooling package, engine and tuning. 450, 650, & 850 are virtually the same machine except for the high strength yellow paint on the Deere's . As for the 160 vs 170 debate...I have a couple of opinions on the topic. I think both machines are good units and will probably give 1000's of hours of good service. A couple of difference that I see that I like on the Deere over the Kobelco. 1. The engine being a wet sleeve Deere engine. This engine has 100's of thousands of hours of time on it in the field. It is a proven design that is a known entity. The Kobelco's used to be equipped with a rock solid Mitsubishi engine. Because of the Fiat influence, the new Kobelco's have Iveco engines that are dry sleeve in design and have no where near the proven hours that the Deere or Mitsu engine has. 2. The cooling package on the Deere, I feel, is better suited for easier cleaning, lower noise and lower fuel consumption. The Kobelco is utilizes a belt driven cooling fan that produces lots of noise and can’t produces quiet a bit of parasitic load on the engine which drives higher fuel consumption. The 160D uses a hydraulically driven fan which only runs as fast as needed, producing much less noise and less parasitic loads, which reduces fuel consumption. A hydraulic fan can also be reversed, automatically purging the cooling package of dirt and debris, which keeps the machine up and running longer between the times the unit has to be downed for maintenance. Plus the incoming air is prescreened which combined with the wide fin spacing on in the cooling package reduces plugging. I will give credit to Kobelco in their cooling package in that their coolers are mounted side by side and not stacked, which makes it easier to clean as well. The 170’s cooling package just not as nice as the Deere cooling package. 3. Its been said time and time again on this forum, but dealer support is probably the most important factor. Depending on the local dealer situation, I would say on average across the US and Canada, the Deere will be backed by a dealer with stronger support capabilities. I will also venture to say that since CNH has been involved with Kobelco, the support and responsiveness of Kobelco has suffered. I know for a fact that Kobelco isn’t near what it used to be in regards to being responsive to customers. I’m not saying that Deere is perfect by any means, only saying that on a whole Deere is better suited to respond quickly to customer issues.