hi I need to replace the pump in the transmission as its not getting enough pressure to the hydraulic pump at the pto.... I have already pulled the front off just not the engine but kinda looking you probably dotn remove it from the engine front?? where do you go top of tranny? and does the cab have to come off etc? as there is enough hydraulic power to slowly lift the back hoe but not the front bucket and its able to drive back and forward that's about it
As far as I know, you have to split the tractor or remove the engine to get at the transmission pump. What led you to believe that the transmission pump is faulty? Do you have the technical manual and did you do a transmission flow test?
ontrax jd repair place... told me to put a gauge on the front hydraulic pump and he said to work it or what not the high pressure should be I think 3000 psi and if you don't get that then its the high pressure pump.. then they told me to put it on the low side with a different gauge and you need 100psi feeding the front hydraulic pump and I was only getting 50 psi and they told me you have to pull the engine out and then there is 2 types of bars one you gotta cut or if your lucky to unblolt it.. but that's as far as they got for me but when you look on the john deer website for parts for this tranny it looks like you cant open the front of the tranny that there is a top cover of the trans mission I have the repair manual for the JD 310 but dunno where in the book to find it flipped through it..
http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/...ion=flip&irand=8125094954515941406#:1:1:21:24 you can see how there is no open access in the front of where the engine is just the top
I'm not an expert on the 310 but I do know a little bit about the JD system. The JD dealer knows a whole lot more than I do about their new stuff, but I wouldn't be so sure about the old stuff. There should be a lot more in the manual than "if you don't have 100psi then you have to replace the transmission pump..." You need to study and understand the hydraulics and transmission sections of the operations and test manual (possibly TM1158). Is that the manual you have?
The transmission pump is a low pressure gear pump located right behind the planetary reverser unit at the front of the center section. It operates the power reverser clutch and supplies the front high pressure pump. As they do not build much pressure, it is highly unlikely yours is worn to the point of not being able to build the correct pressure. Check your intake screen in the bottom of the rear section in front of the axle housings first as it can plug up and starve the system. After that, there is a regulating valve under the shift cover. After pulling the engine, remove the center transmission section and then remove the pump and reverser clutch pack from the back side of the housing. Been there, done that, don't want to again. There are bolts under the rear of the shift cover which hold it to the rear end. I don't know what "bars" they said need to be cut to remove it, but the center section can be lifted and removed forward without removing the cab if you have the loader chained up out of the way. I set mine on jackstands under the front corners of the loader frame when I pulled it apart for a failed reverser assembly.
well for the above question ill have to look tomorrow for the book. and ill have to work on it in the spring I startd this project 2 yrs ago now I guess last year I didtn get a chance had no tractor to remove engine.... and what the mechance said he said there is 2 type of rods that I guess go left and right... 1 was a solid one that they had to cut on an angle to get at the pump and then re weld it in place and the other ttype. was a 2 bar with a spacer in the middle I guess with 2 bolts and you can remove it... now it stopped working as the hydraulic cooler was bypassed as it was damaged when we got it so I figured the oil heated up too much and burned the pump in the tranny out.... but you say it probably not the problem so what should I do?? and these filters how are they getting clogged? what is breaking down in them.... so what should I do right now I have the bucket siitting on the property and the front end sitting on the ground too the backhoe is on stands with the engine still intacked but everything else removed.. and I had the oil rad recored
A 310A as mine is also, is built on a common farm tractor such as the 1020 and into the 2000 series (2350-2750) etc. There is a screen tube which lays crossways in the bottom, as I mentioned before, that catches large particulate such as brake linings and other crap either poured in or precipitating out. I have had it shut the hydraulics down on many farm tractors and will exhibit many of the symptoms you described. Slow to no function, chattering main pump, hesitation, full pressure until the supply reservoir is depleted (they can put out 20GPM but don't have that much supply available). On the backhoe, it is a pain to get out as the external filter housing on the right side has to come off to get to it. If the machine had any oil going through the pump, it won't be damaged as it is a cast iron housing with no wear plates. There is a large drive gear on the main shaft with a small idler gear meshing into it. You could also have an internal leak into or from the tubes connecting into the pump. Look at a parts schematic for a JD 2350 with reverser on JD's farm site and you can see what it is and where it is located. These bars they are referring to having to be cut, are they inside the housing? nothing has to be cut. Just disassembled. I don't recall cutting any structural members on the operators platform to remove the center section either. Don't always trust a dealer mechanic. I've recently fixed some "dealer shop" screw-ups in my shop recently. As far as getting the center out from where you are now, is the front axle, support, and hardnose already off? Is the loader frame still on the tractor but setting on the ground? If the front end is already out of the way, the engine is connected with 6 5/8" bolts around the bell housing, which when removed, the engine will easily swing out of the way. I assume it can be pulled with loader arms in the way but will be a PITA... If you can lift the arms, chain them to the top of the front canopy risers. I have a skid steer so this was a bit easier for me. Once the engine is pulled, support the front of the REAR housing, and, after removing the shift cover, remove the two or three 5/8" bolts under the cover to rear section and the outer bolts and lift it out by the steering gear tower. As far in as you are, I would go ahead and pull it and reseal the forward and reverse clutch pistons (careful with the square cut seal ring install).
hi sorry for the delay been sick and such oh and another thing is is when i was operating they had bypassed the hydraulic cooler as they couldnt get it fixed thats why i figured the pump broke down.. but your saying its a filter??? i know i had the filter on right side back that faces up and down replaced who had it before me double ringed it too.. but she leaking again... as ya it broke down as i was working it and i was told before by someone else that said my pump is weak.. but if the pump is weak your saying its probably the filter??? so how many filters are on this thing? i only seen the 1.... as for what i have to look up can you send me the link of this reverser? as it didnt work for me... and what am i looking for? and how do i know if internal pipes are leaking??? as for the bar to cut.. the mechanic said this year had 2 types of shaft i guess its in the way inside the tranny and they either cut it on a 45 degree angle and re weld it in... or ts like a has a piece in the middle that would have 2 bolts holding the 2 halves of the shaft so u remove the center holding slide it to the side and you can remove both halves.... as for what i have removed... ive already taken this backhoe apart before i replaced the ring gear and clutch and found out didnt have to it was the starter having a bent shaft that caused the starter to never go in.. i used my loader to remove the front wheels and the loader i have them held together with extension cords the as i didnt have chain and hoping no dirt got in the ports but i electrical taped them anyways... i know my tractor could lift the front end of the backhoe but it sure flattened my tractor tires so i drove it slow when i backed it out.... and i just havent pulled the engine.. i have it standing on blocks and 2 12ton jack stands
Comet424, wrwtexan is telling you about a filter or screen that is inside your transmission. If you have found the filter in a cartridge on the right side of the transmission then you need to look for a short piece of rubber hose right next to that cartridge. I don't remember if the screen is connected to that hose but the screen is mounted in the transmission at that point. I think that hose needs to be removed to pull the screen out but I'm not sure there. Hopefully wrwtexan will tell you.
ok all i know is i got a white cartridge pain in ass i changed before laying under the backhoe i just wondering if there is more then one?? and how would i pull out the hose and screen? i know the filter screws in but i havent been under it in 2 yrs just this spring i gonna fix it again waiting for the snow to go first
Slow down on your typing. I am having some difficulty understanding some of your issues. If they work, here are some pics of the screen and its location. The tractor has a base filter bowl on the trans housing, and another which you seem to have already pulled. The screen is behind the plug which feeds into the auxiliary filter housing which points forward. This housing has to be and the likely 1-1/4" plug in side has to be removed to get it out. ALL fluid will come out! Then using a o ring pick, hook it and pull it out. It is around 10" long and may be loaded with crap that can make it difficult to remove. The larger 4000 series tractors have the same screen but it comes out the other side and much easier. Regarding pulling the CENTER section which has the transfer pump on the back side of it, whatever knuckle dragging mechanic you are talking to is WRONG. I cut nothing (no shafts , no crossmembers, no frame bars) to get it out. I had my loader up, the base frame at the front setting on jackstands, pulled the engine, then pulled the center section out. Remove the shifter cover out of the shift rod gates and the two rear facing 5/8" bolts at the top. The backend of the center section is completely open It separates just like any farm tractor, it just had a loader bolted around it. I'm not fond of John Deere, but they don't have you cutting internal parts and rewelding them to split and do trans repair!
Reference #30 in my schematic pic is the screen which is behind the barbed outlet plug with the black hose on it in the first pic. Definitely not an easy check but when my farm rigs start having hydraulic issues and have had poor service, I replace the filters and check the screen and often fix the problem. It usually is loaded with poured in trash and sometimes brake linings.
hi sorry about that.. with dislexia it sounds right in my head but doesnt always come out right.. what i was saying was i have had the front off and the loader off... my Leyland tractor can handle lifting it but the tires cant really since the backhoes front end so heavy it flattens the tires as i pull it away... as for the loader part i used extension cords then later chain to hold the 2 cylinders up to the arms. and carried it to the side with the tractor.. and i have the backhole held up with 2 12 ton jack stands.... reason i took it apart the first time is i couldnt get it to start the tractor you keep pressing the starter trying to get it into the gear... which in the end it wasnt the ring gear... it was the starter motor had a bent shaft inside.... and i replaced the clutch.. it was horrible trying to get it back together by myself very hard to line the stuff up... and when i got the backhoe the people before me had bypassed the Oil Cooler for the hydraulic so they just joined in with a hoses together... so i used to use it not for a long time as you couldnt cool the oil... and i didnt like trying to get the bolts back in the engine and trying to get the 250lbs torq with the cab on is such a beotch lol as for the mechanic this guy from Ontrax the john deer dearler.... as for the plug do i have to pull the tire off to get enough room? i wonder why they added a screen? and the filter not good enough?? so what do i do now do i pull the engine out??? or do i just put the other crap back on? and the shifter covers do you mean the floor? i have had them off at one point just very aquard any more pics be helpfull i try to get you pics what i have
I understand now. No worries on the typing. My wife has dyslexia and has the same problems. I raised my loader all the way up before disassembly and chained the boom to the top of the open canopy posts. Removing the tire will definitely make the screen removal much easier. The screen is standard on ALL the older JD's. 2000(2350 etc) and 4000(4440) series all have them as a prescreening to catch all the big stuff before the fine filter. On most, it's not a problem to get to, on the backhoe with the added filter, it is. Pull the screen before you go any deeper and see what it looks like. You're in a tough spot. If it is covered and restricting, I probably would not go into it further. The shuttle clutches would be my only concern regarding overheating and the forward clutch can come out the front. By the shifter, I mean the two levers below the steering wheel. remove the diamond floor plate center section and you will see what they are mounted in. That cover extends back to the clutch housing/ trans joint and lifts off easily. The ball ended levers drop into gates on the horizontal shift rods which extend forward into the center from the trans case. Looking back to your first post, if it will move without problem, your trans pump is likely okay as it operates the clutches. If it isn't supplying enough oil to the main, the main sytem will be slow or hesitate while lifting. The main pump has a stroke control valve which can cause low pressure if it sticks and partially destrokes the pump. The engine bolts are best accessed with an extension on a long handle ratchet and don't worry about getting the 250lbs torque reading on them.
ah ok i couldnt lift the boom so its sitting on the ground if you mean the hoe.. as right now the hoe and out riggers are sitting on the ground now. when i did operated the it i could get it to move ever ever so slightly to a point then it stopped working.. and the front bucket wouldnt work at all.. i did drive it from my field and parked it and if i gotta pull the wheel off i going to have to wait a while as its sitting in an area gets wet and soggy damn spring... so the tire going to be an issue its hard deal with also going to be a headache.. since the tire fell off on me driving 6 yrs ago so i ground out the holes and put new bolts and nuts on them.. so this going to be harder lol... ya the bucket in the front would shutter when i lifted.. till the backhoe warmed up for 15 min then it wasnt too bad.... but sometimes using it i was lmited you be fiddling with the controls to get the backhoe to lift higher etc as it wasnt strong enough??? so your saying dont pull out the engine then check for the oil and anything coming out? so once i get the screen out does all the crud come out ? or do you need to flush it??? and if i gotta take the shifters out the plate etc what is that for?? as then the seat has to come out too... what are the shuttle clutchs and forward clutch?? that wouldnt be the regular foot clutch as i replaced the disc on that
By boom I mean the front loader. With it up, the engine ad further back is much easier to get to. The filter CAN be removed with the wheel on and I have also had to put bolts and nuts on ours. Your call on that. Think about cold oil. If a screen or filter is plugged, it will block the oil more while it is cold than after it warms up some. Sounds just like a covered over screen to me. If it will drive, your trans pump is supplying enough pressure to engage the clutches. Regarding the shuddering while lifting, a that it a characteristic of a piston pump as it pushes fluid on each piston stroke (8 of them). Normally, you won't feel them but with fluid starvation, you will. There is a surge tank above the main pump to provide for times of high flow as the trans pump can't keep up continuously with the main pump. As it is, yours likely isn't keeping up at all. When draining, only what is on the screen and close by will come out. It likely hasn't come out in years and there may not be a lot of stuff in the system, just lots of time to catch full. Flushing might help, but likely won't get much moving and out. The shifter cover is right under the steering wheel. The seat does not have to come out as the shift rods extend forward of the second split joint into the center section. The forward clutch is on the front wall of the clutch housing behind the engine clutch and the reverser brake is on the back wall inside, in front of the trans pump. forward clutch reverser clutch housing shifters trans pump
The screen is on the suction side of both pumps, to filter out the big stuff before it goes through the pumps. I don't know this model specifically, but Deere transmission screens are typically plastic mesh cylinders with stiffeners, the gunk will be on the inside. I've always pulled it out with a finger, sometimes it takes some wiggling. Knock some of the junk out for "technical analysis" and spray the rest of the junk out with a garden hose and let it dry, if no holes or tears then re-use it. If these questions have been answered, kindly disregard this post.
The shaft comet is speaking of cutting is the throwout bearing shaft. It won't slide out the side far enough to get the input shaft out. Just cut it between the bolts and if you want to weld a piece of 1/2 key stock underneath it will be fine. The only other way to get it out is to remove the loader frame. But first thing is change all the filters and suction strainer.
Delmer; the crap will be on the outside of the screen. it sucks into the screen and then out the center. I think the same screen will fit the 2000's all the way up to the 4850 I have to replace brakes on because pad lining keeps plugging the screen. repowerguy; I understand now what shaft he is talking about. removing this will only allow removal of the forward direction clutch but no further. Pull the whole section and get all of it. The center section will come out without removing the loader frame . been there, done that. My reverser seals were out when we bought it.
ok so you have pulled the engine out with the loader in the air??? damn here i pulled the front off and the loader off.... and you mentioned the relay on the high pressure pump could be problem how can i tell if that is working right or not is the forward reverser clutch is that for driving it forward and back on the handle on the dash... so then the console basiclly has to come out its so awkward with the door opening only so wide. and when you got a bad back with syatica never being pressed all the time it doesnt help matters lol ugh and how can you get all the junk out?? ya i doubt its ever been removed ill take some pics later today.... its -2 here so far doubt the oil will come out lol and i cant warm it up... so you were saying wheel can stay on. as i dont have the engine hooked up anymore its only bolted on so it wont run to spin the tires so i wont be able to get at the bolts and you guys mentioned you can removed the whole section is that to get the pump out what is involved in that then....and the removing the the stuff in the cab is that so its unhooked so the whole thing slides out?? sorry alot of questions im a visual learner with stupid dislexia and i gotta read things several times to grasp it.. and since the ontrax in peterborough wont messaged back i guess they want me to bring it in i cant afford that ... none of you guys live near Peterborough Ontario i bet to come on over lol
your a long way from Texas. afraid that's a little far for a service call . My loader was all the way up and chained. The lever on the dash is the control for the forward/reverser. Now to get on the same page, mine has an open four post canopy so yours may be a bit more difficult if it is a fully enclosed cab. With mine open, I lifted the whole center by the steering tower and without removing the console (not in the way for internal repair). As far as flushing, diesel would probably cut and carry more junk out. -2??? We have the house doors open right now with 60 at night and 80 daytime:tong. Not sure what to say about fixing it. I close up shop much below 28 and that's only for a few days. The stroke control valve has to be checked and adjusted running with a gauge. sorry. They can leak by, destroking the pump, and building low or no pressure. reference #'s 26-36 the pump is on the back inside wall of the center, so yes, it HAS to come out to get the trans pump out.
yes -2C up here its going to warm up as the high pressure pump i did test with gauges i forget what psi for high pressure but i only got 50 psi on the low side mechanic said i need 100 psi. and he said i wouldnt be able to fix the pump he said he is the only one that can so they mention here in the fourm i dont have to remove that one shaft but i can pull out the entire assembly do i still need to do that ?? or flushing with diesel fuel as there is no way i can move it.. and as for the loader i guess you chained it to the hoe to keep it in the air??? as i not sure my next step really first wait for the ground to settle dont want this backhoe to fall on me due to ground thawing but here is the pics i took
Check the screen first! Then decide where to go. As stated before, mine is an open station, I chained the loader the front posts of the canopy at the top. If you have to go deeper into it, your cab looks like maybe the front glass and frame might come out? HE doesn't have the pump rebuild market cornered. You can go into it and see if there is any damage. Problems to look for would be exhaust valve seats as they can wear and leak pressure back and of course the stroke control valve. Worst case, get a rebuilt from All States Ag or some other rebuilder. From what you are saying, I would steer clear of this joker at the Deere house. I have made a good business of cleaning up messes that some dealer mechs have made.
ah ok ill try this next week when maybe bit warmer or so as its going to thunderstorm today but it be 16 degrees out heat wave lol.. so no point as i cant get the oil warmed up.... how will i know if i have to go into the tranny though? i perfer not to as this seems alot of pain and you mentioned there could be leaks inside? and another guy said the whole assembly can come out without cuttign this bar?? as i cant weld ): as for the pump they priced it out at 1500 at john deere for a rebuilt. he told me also i cant do it myself i need special tools ordinary guy can not rebuild these pumps and you dont have any pics of what a worn out stroke valve looks like? as if i take apart i wouldnt know
Yes, the whole center can come out without cutting the clutch cross shaft. Whether or not to go deeper into it is a gamble. Consider the symptoms when it was working, along with what you find on the screen. If it is covered and plugged, and your directional clutches where working, I wouldn't go any deeper. I suspect your main pump or stroke valve is your problem. I had a 4430 which was giving some of the same problems. I could free up the stroke valve and adjust it for max pressure and only build 2000 psi. Finally had to replace it and problem solved. Figure out which pump you have and check All States online catalog. The previous mentioned pump rebuilt ran about $1,000. He is right that it takes special tools to replace valve seats and such, but the stroke valve can be replaced and adjusted on the machine with a gauge. I don't have a used valve to show. On end of it has a point to it with a matching seat which when worn, allows pressure to bypass and destroke the pistons away from the cam.
ah ok and by directional clutches you mean about the driving forward or back correct? as i drove it fine back from my field where i was digging holes i could move forward and backwards and parked it where i have at my place so i was able to drive it back 500 feet at least... so that pickup pump also drives the driving right? so then i probably dont need to go inside?? as for the special tools thats too bad in canada i had a guy looking it up and he found 1 pump on a backhoe in florida but by the time it comes to canada say i looking at 2 grand etc... why wouldnt a rebuilding the pump be better??? or it could be the solinode right? but first things first i guess work on the screen.. now i think im in trouble today warm enough so i got under the backhoe and took some pictures didnt try nothing yet,.... but my delemai is is you see the bolt sideways on that filter.. but you see the cross member is in the way is that bolt going to come out?? and the screen too or em i screwed????
YES on the clutches. There is a main transmission release disc on the flywheel, then a forward hydraulically applied clutch pack, and a reverse planetary brake pack on the inside wall of the center section. If will move itself without seeming to slip, then they and the trans pump which operates them are likely OKAY. The hydraulic pump is the same as used on the AG TRACTORS. Figure out what displacement it is, then order one from Abilene Machine or All States Ag Parts or some other farm tractor parts supply. All States has likely what you need for $1K. The 'bolt" is not a bolt... It is a SAE o ring boss plug with I think a bypass valve under it. The filter base is held to the loader frame with 2 3/8" bolts as I recall. Take the filter canister off and you will see how it is attached.
ya like if I driving and slow of course I flip the lever in reverse it takes a a second or 2 then goes backwards so then the pump is fine well I wish the mechanic had told me that instead of telling me to pull the engine and to do this screen thing first as for the displacement in the pump how do I know that? and is rebuilding a pump harder or costs more then a rebuilt? and do you know if they ship to Canada as for the filter thing so you mean I have to drop the filter housing to get the screen out I just wanna double check before tackling it as its suppsed to rain later today and I wanna make sure if I do it I have time or tommoorow but there is issue isn't there if I remove plug I cant pull screen to drain oil right I need to drop filter? but if I drop filter to remove the bolts then it will leak out the filter way and I wont get enouch t press out the junk past the screen possibly? just double checking before I tackle things
shifting takes a second or two which is adjustable so as to not slam the clutches in or you out of your seat. as for displacement, let me look at my 310 and see what it has, likely the same. a rebuilt will be cheaper than having yours fixed at JD as All States is done en masse instead of by the job and is tested before shipped. I'm sure they will ship to Canada, may have a little cross border fee. the filter base HAS to come out to get the screen out. It comes out from behind the barbed fitting in the trans housing with the hose on it.
oh ok then im sure the pump is fine and i wont have to take clutch and engine out i wish i had checked with you guys then just listening to the JD mechanic telling me i had to pull it all out as i if it is just plugged fliter crap that been easier and i could fixed this 2 yrs ago another thing was the pump i figured was weak was told that too. but you couldnt really lift yourself in the air say with outrigers youd have to do one side then the otherside then use the hoe to push you up to get the outriggers further down... i know the people before me used the hoe without the outriggers and when i used to drive it it make banging sound my father figured maybe a bearing broken or a break inside but it has stopped doing it but then again havent driven this in 2 years.. is that a bad fix? ok so ill take the filter housing off then 2 bolts and then i can just drop it down some withot taking the rubber hose off just so i can pull thscreen out but it wont realyl come out the fluid right it will go the filter side ? and can i wash it out pouring gas down as it like to disolve oil better to wash it out to flush it??
This is the same screen but on 4840 The smaller tractors come out the other side as we have been discussing.
oh damn thats a long puppy.. so yours is attached to your tranny but mine be in the oil filter holder and i guessing part of the Rubber hose.... does the rubber hose have to come off? or just remove the oil filter cover pull out 2 bolts... lower the holder a little remove the plug and pull the screen out? that be the procedure then right? and all the junk be around the filter right
..... yours is in the same place as what I have pictured. only difference is it comes out the other side. if it were a farm tractor, it would have the same plug as what I have in my hand at the end of the screen. On the backhoe version, the plug is replaced with a fitting with a barb on it for the hose going to the external added filter base and canister. the base fitting still has to come out as if it were a plug and the screen is behind it. the two bolts I referred to earlier merely hold the filter base in place. I think it is bolted to a flange welded to the loader sub frame.
ah ok i think i not near the backhoe today so i cant check so you mean the screen is behind that rubber hose so i gotta pull off the Filter canister.. remove the 2 bolts remove the hose connecting to the 2nd filter.. and the filter is behind that right??? as i thought it was just behind that first plug on that first filter i figured that screen was in that length as thats what i thought.... sorry with dislexia and learning disability i have to re read things several times to get it.. im a more of a visual learner then a reader... so bear with me
hi guys so i finally got a day to work on backhoe here some pics i got the oil filter off.. i removed the 2 bolts behind the oil filter housing and i loosened the 1 rubber hose on the left in the pics now question is can i remove that pipe without unduing it up top as its hard to get at 2nd is since i removed the oil filter shouldnt all the oil have come out drained out? if so then that means the screen is plugged right? or do i have to remove that big plug on the bottom of the oil filter to drain it and i can see why its easier to do with tire off but its a bitch and be nice no cab lol
Best way out now as those hoses are original from the paint on them, is cut them lengthway and replace them. I've found that old hoses like that take a set and are nearly impossible to move. Get some new hose (fuel pump transfer hose) and replace it upon reassembly with a good dose of grease on a cleaned pipe to help it slide up the top pipe out the way. the bottom plug I believe is a bypass valve. You're nearly there, Remove that plug/hose barb coming out of the tranny housing and get ready to 10 gallons or so of oil and hopefully a really dirty screen.
ok thanks ill try next few days i guess its supposed to rain next couple days so thats out lol so shouldnt all the oil have drained out once i remove the the filter? and that bypass plug you figure on the bottom of the oil filter isnt that the drain plug for the oil? ill need a bigger bucket lol my thing only holds 11 liters lol so ill slice both those lines do i need to slice that upper hose? and ill kick myself if this was the only problem after the ontrax john deer dealer saying i need to pull engine out to get in there as its been sitting nearly 2 years as my leyland tractor broke 2013 and its hard to pull the engine out by yourself with no backhoe.. but my tractor fixed i managed to do it by myself now its the backhoes turn lol
not if it is badly plugged. if you can get a pair of pliers on the upper hose and get it to move forward, it might can stay. as I said earlier, it may have a set and have aged and hardened such that it may be impossible to get moving over the ring on the end of the steel line. I think the bottom plug is for the bypass valve, not draining. check the passages, you may can determine flow routing.
On my 310B screen, what I have done is: remove the two bolts that hold the horizontal hydraulic filter on left the upper hoses connected cut the old short hose , (like someone else said, you may want to cut your current short hose and replace it) make a wooden wedge out of 2x4, tapered about 1" to 3-1/2" and 6" long, (approx. size, going from memory) use the wooden wedge to hold the filter body far enough away from the transmission to remove the screen. I used a pry bar to move filter body and wedge to hold it unscrew the house barb fitting use needle nose pliers, angled ones work best and wiggle the screen out I flushed my system out and changed the fluid,filters and cleaned trans. screen again after some short use, the process above works good with a new hose
ah ok ill see what i can do i unloosened the bottom plug and its draining the fluid at the moment i just cracked it enough so it be a steady stream to go in a bucket so i can close it to so its not all over the ground... so dont touch the top hose ill cut the hose between filter and transmission and do i leave the other bottom hose on or just cut that too and what did you use to flush it... and damn after a short time do all that work again and of course i probably wont be able to lift the backhoe in the air and drain this fluid out if this fixes the problem the screening as its tight fit under there i wish i was 19 again no problems lol
cant test anymore due to rain but i did pull the bottom plug out and she drained not bad fast steady big stream slowed down nearly 11 liters then i put plug back in and dumped my oil to reuse the container and fill it and it was a slower pee stream then but the oil still all clean from when i last put it in couple years ago... and the magnet on the plug i guess magnet or its a stick was clean too but i gotta wait till i can cut that hose etc
The only hose I cut was the short one between the filter base and transmission, maybe 1" ID x 3" approx. I'm not sure about 'other bottom hose' you mentioned. I used diesel fuel and a few 5 gallon buckets to keep reusing the diesel. I used a screen that paint stores sell that fits in the top of a 5 gallon bucket on the bottom, to see what was coming out. Then re-screened the diesel before reusing. The transmission front drain plug allows most of the flow but I did flush some through the back drain plug. I also used the shop vac with a modified end and a 'suck bucket' that a member here suggested, I think ATCO. It allows the vac to pull the diesel into the bucket and not the vac. It seems there were some places (pockets and corners) the flush just didn't reach well. I had the top cover off of mine so I had full access to the top. And it took some time; my procedure: flush/screen diesel magnet out debris repeat I just did maybe a normal hydraulic fluid service after a short time, just drained the hydraulic fluid, changed hydraulic filters, removed transmission screen and cleaned. The little o-rings take some concentration to get on correctly and not leak. Just curious, have you gotten your transmission screen out?
ah i guess i could have done that screened the clean hydraulic to re used but you say diesel fuel.... ya i didnt take the top off how come you needed to take your top off the transmission? and i re looked i guess not a bottom hose just the 2 top hoses but i wont cut them i just have the clamps loosened from the one closest to the tire... as for the screen out not yet as it was **** pouring rain i was only able to drain the fluid out through the drain plug didnt wanna lay under backhoe while it was raining since this is outside ill cut the hose today and try and i must have missed that post about making a shop vac suction is that so you can circulate the fluid if there is alink for that maybe you can share it?
ok so i got it out but i dont think its that bad to cause the hydraulics to stop working? here is video too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dltKc3DDUs&feature=youtu.be
I found shavings in transmission after some hydraulic issue, so I took top off for full a cess to inspect and flush. Heres link to bucket,
Idk, for sure about if it would stop or not. Mine was maybe a little dirtier and showed metal. That looks like a gel, water maybe? Whats the inside of trans look like?I ran a magnet through mine and got a LOT out, even removed the fitting directly opposite the Trans screen for access to both sides (clutch side) Maybe the screen being difficult might indicate something else is inside, because once I cleaned mine the screen comes out fairly easy.
That's a lot of junk on the screen, the good news is that none of it looks like important parts, just water slime probably. It's your call if you want to flush it with diesel. Definitely make a suck bucket and use some copper tube, or semi stiff plastic with a bend on the end to vacuum out the bottom of the compartment. Start with a clean bucket so you can examine the junk you pull out of there.
ok ill take a look later today ya ill flush it and whats wrong with using gasoline as it usually a good solvent why not use that to wash the parts down ill take a look at link later.. so what would that junk be caused from? and you mention doesnt look like important parts does that mean no metal wearage as the drain i guess by the filter as that metal post and no metal to it i guessing thats the magnet never checked it lol would you think that gunk stop the hydrualics ? the clean side is what was on the outside i used a scribber to pull this out and how difficult was it for you to remove the transmission lid as i still got the floor in there and its a pain in ass as it is lol
I don't think that gunk would stop the hydraulics completely. But if there were other problems with the pump, or leakage in any of the hydraulic circuits, then that gunk might have contributed. Also, when you vacuum out the bottom of the transmission you'll see how much gunk fell off the screen. I didn't see any black brake material type stuff, or metal pieces on the screen, that would be bad. A coating of fine metal particles on the magnet is expected, anything bigger is suspicious. The gunk on the screen looks like the slime that grows in water and oil, maybe some foreign matter mixed in? I wouldn't use gasoline to flush it. Using a vacuum attached to a suck bucket, and a specially bent wand will get you a good sample of what is on the bottom of the "pan", if there's a lot more gunk than what is on the screen then you can think about taking the cover off, or flushing it.
ok so how would water get in or any foreign matter? so when i vacum am i doing it through that bottom hole as i thought you ment id have to take the cover off and vacum it that way.. and how do i find if there is a hydraulic leakage??? i know the pistons leak as if i ever had the out riggers in the air they slowly come down or if i had the backhoe lifted in the air and i left it up for the day it would come down... and why is gasoline bad only reason i say it is as it always washes out grease and oil.. but if there is alot of gunk then what is that mean that the hydraulic system is plugged? and i wont even know if the pump is bad unless i re assemble the whole backhoe then either right so much for simple lol
and how will we know if the hydraulics are leaking inside the transmission.... is this going to be a bigger job then i thought?
alright so i made a suck bucket.. well that shop vac too good it sucked my suck bucket it crippled it lol who knew a TDH oil bucket could be crushed under a shop vac lol well i was able to get about 12 inchs of hose in and suck it but just fluid came out not much but in the bucket its gray runny color so i cant say but there is not jelly pieces so what does that mean and havent heard a reply back from you guys how do you know if there is a leak in the hydraulics in the transmission? and what are my options now? here some pcis camera didnt do so well as its too sunny out
That fluid looks pretty gunky, hard to tell from a picture though. You can get a much better view by swirling it around to get all the dirt mixed up and then pouring it into a glass jar. The tests for hydraulic leakage are in the service manual. There should be a test for the flow and pressure of the transmission pump, it's not easy, but neither is splitting the tractor, putting it back together and still having the same problem. The control valves are much easier to get to, if you have the manual and understand what you're looking at, then that shouldn't be too hard to take apart. There was enough gunk on the screen that anything could be stuck. If it was mine, I'd either put the fluid back in and try it, or flush it with diesel. Did you save the old oil in clean buckets? Siphon off the top 3/4 and put that back in with a little new stuff and see what it does. Pour the bottom of the bucket into a glass jar to see what settles out. What is taken apart on the machine at the moment? Can you start the engine and test again. To flush it, take a 5 gallon bucket of diesel, put it on top of the cab or the hood, siphon it through a hose and into the compartment in question. Have a clean bucket under the drain. Use two buckets if there are more openings from the filter and screen holes. Take that diesel and set it back up on the hood, but put a cover on it and let it sit for an hour, then siphon off the top 3/4 of the bucket into another clean bucket and then use that diesel to flush again.
hi thanks for the reply.. 1 ill try to pour in a glass jar and take a pic in not so bright light as for the service manual i got a photo copy of a book that is a service manual but its frustrating as they not nicely labled with page 1 2 3 4 5.... i dont understand why they cant do that no has to be group then break down so i get confused ill let you know tommorow which book i have maybe if you have same book you can tell me what pages to look at as for draining the clean oil no i couldnt get a bucket that would fit under the backhoe so i used my oil drain bucket which had oil in it. so i just dumped it all in a 45 gal drum sorry.. as for starting it i dont think i can as you can see in the pics i dont have the backhoe together i just have the engine bolted i have the Front (with wheels ) off the pto high pressure pump off the front end loader off so i guess im screwed at testing it? all i could do is use a small bucket under neath and drain diesel through the filler at top.. and whats the reason you dont use gasoline as it would rinse the gunk no? and i only cut off the hose with the screen line so dont think there is anywhere else except that 2nd oil filter on bottom
I don't have a 310 manual so I can't help you with page numbers. If it's the right manual it should have different tests for the components, and good descriptions of how the system works. Gas would flush the gunk, BUT I just don't know if it would hurt any seals or anything else inside, and I sure wouldn't want to be crawling under a machine pouring gas out into buckets. Never done it, and not going to recommend it. I would use a garden hose (hot water if you can) and FLUSH it with that before I'd use gas.
I guess my bucket had some dirt in it and maybe water cant tell as in my glass jar I seen sand and this is now gray but I sure when I drained it it was the yellow color in the bucket I should have saved that first and here is pic of the cover of the book if any of you guys have this book maybe you can help me find what I need as how do I test if the hydraulics are leaking inside the transmission without having to re assembled the who backhoe again just to test the high pressure pump there has to be another test when I this fair as you know just the engine is bolted on still
here is cover of book
hi I finally working on the backhoe sorry for delays I wasn't able to get heater hose for that oil that was thick hose.. will this hose work? as I going to pour diesel fuel down the hydraulic fill hose to clean out any junk... I re installed the pump that relay on the pump what does it do I took the nut off and you can slide off the coil. does that thing allow the oil pass through or so I never went into the tranny I figured that's too much for me to handle... and to figure out how you find a hydraulic leak inside there but here is a pic of the hoses will it work or do I need to goto john deere to get the thicker hose
As it is only suction and very short, as long as it is oil resistant, it will work. The solenoid coil on top of the pump is a destroke solenoid for easier starting. The manual version has a T handle that the operator screws in before starting, then turns back out to stroke pump back in to pumping. Mine won't start without doing so. In your frozen wonderland, it will almost be a must have.
ah ok ya I have always had a hard time starting in the winter non the less usually have to plug in block heater as even with starter fluid on the side of engine pressing the button too much and then she wont crank so just a little a time and do you guys know the pressure it should have once I put the hoses on... and I don't wanna put front end loader on yet.. are the hoses safe without needing end caps as long as I don't touch the controls? as id only work the hoe to test so I going to this weekend pour diesel fuel down the add oil pipe and let wnatever drain out I don't have a plug to fill the entire inside and let flow down so I guess it be just pour in as it pours out kinda thing and that hose I figured was a return line... so its a suction line into the oil filter and into the main pump is that how that works I guessing its oil resistance I not sure just know its heater hose? does anyone have an idea if its oil resitant... as all I can get from hydraulic place is hydraulic hose.... and since JD isn't willing to help me on anything I on my own here
Not heater hose, you do need oil resistant hydraulic hose as there is I think 30 psi or better there.
ah ok i was at princess auto and got some hydraulic hose 1" good for 250 psi so do i need to drop out the transmission filter as well? or just have the hydraulic filter off... as last time i used it. it drove as i going to pour diesel fuel down the filler hose tommorow and have a buck under where the screen would been and a bucket on the lines to the high pressure pump and hopefully it washes crud and no one can test my pump unless its running on the backhoe... . but do you guys know the pressures it should be on the test ports? and if this doesnt work does that mean i gotta pull the engine out and get int the transmission?
I would think for a thorough flush you will need to take both filters off, both transmission plugs and the recess hole where the trans screen rests on the opposite side of the transmission. My top cover was off for inspection and it helped to use the magnet and pump up sprayer with diesel to concentrate in the nooks and crannie. It seemed like every time I flushed/magnet repeat, debri would settle. This eventually worked for me but someone may have an easier way. Debris got caught in the little nook and crannies, esp the recess for the screen. A screen in the bucket(s) helps to screen the debris for observation and so you can reuse the diesel. For me, flush/magnet repeat worked but it took a long time before debris were gone.
ah ok so where are these plugs for the transmission i have the one with the screen out and then the 2 lines to the pto hydrualic pump and how hard is to to remove the cover... since the floor seat and the cab are in the way... hopefully just easier way? i was wondering is there pressure release valves that could be causing my hyrdaulics to fail and where are they and what would i look for that maybe the relief valves are active acting like there is too much pressure and just running to it
Plugs are in the bottom of transmission and rear housing, I think they take an 1-1/4" socket. The seat assembly and trans top was not easy, kinda awkward. I felt like it was worthwhile
ah ok ya right now with the weather cold and getting colder frustrating i should done this in the summer but i was busy how much work was it to get the cover off? as i cant get the cab off if i wanted too ok ill look for the plugs for now ill just pour fluid down wash anything on the bottom and where would be the pressure release valves if they were broken i going to take pressure readings at the pump and ill post it and maybe you guys can tell me if its working right
Don't get too far ahead of yourself. The transmission pump system has to work right first. Make sure you check that valve spool in the hydraulic filter housing, the hydraulic pump will not work without good flow from the transmission, at the correct pressure going to the hydraulic pump inlet. The hydraulic pump I believe will put out about 2,500 psi. There is a stroke control valve on the front of the hydraulic pump that controls flow and limits that pressure. I won't swear to it but I believe the main relief is in the pressure control valve which is where the pump flow is split to go to the loader valve and backhoe valve.
well no rush i have had this backhoe sitting 2 yrs now since it stopped working it was driving forward and backwards just the bucket and hoe stopped working for me at the time i didnt have no oil cooler the people before me had it bypassed.... and reason i asked about pressure release valved figured maybe rubber O rings had gone? and in the bottom of the oil filter holder there is a plug spring and a piece of metal that looks like a dicks head lol ok so 2500 you think and what would the other port be reading? i guessing one will tell you the pressure coming to the pump and the other port is the pressure to the pistons
Probably right on the test ports, but it's best to check the service manual. Need pictures of the plug spring and err... other metal piece, lol.
dont have a service manual i wish lol.... do you??? and ill have to get pics later pissing rain here so i delayed lol i did order a new washer the one that goes for that hose adapter into the tranny it feels like a compression ring but its chipped so i ordered a new washer... but those other parts ill take a pic of it i had pushed it back up into the unit but if you can find out the test pressures be great
ok here some photos I have other questions I pulled out the horizontal Pressure Relief Valve and it shows the O Rings in different spots than pulled out 1 is on the Valve and the other is on the the Plug yet the drawings says one is in front of the Spring and one basically on the Valve is the drawing wrong? and here the pics of the bottom plug and Relief Valve is it stil in good condition I did drop the tranny filter and it wasn't too bad dirty colored and I flushed it was no real dirt and the pic of the tranny is that the drain plug at the back? but if I drained the oil In the front at the Screen the 10 inch one that means I don't hve to do that plug right the tranny plug since its all drained out the front?
some more pics
here some more pics now maybe you guys can help if the slide one is right? for the pressure relief valve if you goto the john deere site for the parts page and you enter in 310A goto the backhoe goto Alphabet and choose H goto Hydraulic Oil Filter and you see 17- 20 is in an order but the order I pulled out was Plug/Oring Valve/Oring Spring yet it shows different and is that penis type valve or mushroom worn too much it seems ok and is there another pressure control valve somewhere?
It all looks okay, just replace the o-rings. Don't obsess about the parts picture, they just got the o-rings out of order. The little mushroom valve is the filter bypass in case the filter plugs up it opens rather than have the filter rupture and carry a bunch of junk on through. The long sleeve valve sets the pressure going to the inlet of the hydraulic pump, it opens when pressure gets too high and dumps oil straight into the transmission housing. I would pull the other drain plug, I seem to remember there's a sump under the differential which holds some oil, it may be yucky. On the pressure side of the hydraulic pump, the steel tube coming off the pump outlet goes to the pressure control valve which feeds the loader and backhoe.
ok I looked under the backhoe again I noticed there is acutally I guess 2 drain plugs for the tranny so ill pull both of those ill put new rubber O rings on it I have an O ring kit I bought from princess auto and do you guys know what the pressures should be the inlet pressure etc and as for the pressure control valve you said goes from the steel line can I put a gauge on that? or is that gauge at the pump? I haven't put the loader back one and havet he hoses laying there so I hoping that oil wont **** out once I start the backhoe... as I just gonna test the hoe andt he out riggers... I did remember when I did drive the backhoe where I have had it sit couple years it did have a very slight movement of the lifting of the boom... and power steering worked fine and the pressure control valve can the parts be replaced in it its it just o rings too?
If you have lines open, oil will shoot out. Even the return and cooler lines will have some pressure. If you just have the pressure and return lines for the loader valve disconnected you can cap those two connections on the machine. Pressure control valve:
ah ok so ill need to cap all 8 lines for the front before i start it .. do regular black pipe caps work from home depot or they special ones i need and the pressure control vavle what would be broken if that is malfunction be o rings? is it hard to get at? its pissing rain here so i cant get access to it yet i wish i had found this info couple years ago before i pulled the front and loader off 2 yrs ago... as it could be simply pressure control valve right? and the JD mechanic said it was the pump in the tranny now to know the pressures for the gauges..
oh and this pressure control valve shows about towards loader... but also my Hoe doesnt work or the outriggers is there a pressure control vavle for them or a pressure control valve that sends pressure to all of these?
8 lines? Probably JIC flare I would think. Gotta start with the transmission pump, get the inlet pressure correct for the hydraulic pump, then see what you get from the hydraulic pump. The pressure control valve I *think* controls pressure to both the loader and the backhoe, both are connected to it. I don't have the technical manual and it's been almost thirty years so.... Probably wouldn't hurt to make sure there's nothing broken or stuck in the pressure control valve.
ah 30 yrs ya old eh and you still have this engine? as for working with the transmission pump how do i do that? or would i test that at the hydrauclic pump as i dont think there is a screw to set the transmission pumps pressure.... as for the hydraulic pump do you set the pressure with that top nut or the funny looking cap on the the side? as for the 8 lines yes... 4 on each side ... 2 for the bucket 2 for the lift on each side
im guessing from the picture of the control valve i only need to remove the 19 that side of the assembly right as the other end is just a plug and a pipe and not sure where those 2 O rings go that are by themselves there
oh i didnt buy no JIC caps i bought the NPT ones whats the difference? also found that the black pipe caps 1/2" from home depot fit on the hoses too
ok so i having problems on the pressure control valve i removed the plug and it has a o ring but no washer so i not sure how well that picture is acurate i removed the spring but i cant remove the washer and orfice to pull the valve out what trick is it to get that out?
putting a scriber in there doesnt help to pull it out... from what i can see with a mirror there is no orfice in the spot it says but the valve itself as i can slide it back and forth but with the mirror it kinda looks like a ring or something after the threading that doesnt the valve to slide out.... i cant feel for a hole in the valve so the scribber can lock into and pull the valve out and i guessing the Orifice is after the valve and not like the picture shows