As part of some long-overdue maintenance on my '87 310C, I started rebuilding some of the very-leaky cylinders. I managed to get the two stabilizers disassembled easily enough (waiting for proper rebuild kits to arrive, which is another story altogether) . Some manhandling for sure, but everything is almost ready to complete those two. Now the Swing Cylinders are another story. I spent a couple hours with a plastic paint scraper removing huge amounts of fluid-caked dirt/grease from the area. Managed to get the pins out. Managed to clean everything out enough to get everything "swinging" properly. Removed the hydraulic lines and drained what I could. Got the gland nuts and spring clips out (almost like a pro!) without much fuss. But...man the cylinder on at least one side will not budge. Like not even a little. The other side, I was able to use a pry-bar to compress/rotate the rod (to allow full swing) but the left side just will not budge. I can't even get it back to the point where there would be tension on the spring-ring/clip at the gland assembly. Some of the fluid looked like Bailey's Irish Cream coming out. The stabilizers were much the same, but I got them all cleaned/honed/etc just fine. I don't know if a winch is the next step, or to tie one end onto my Jeep and let her rip. I am not inclined to start anything up before the fluid (and the Bailey's !) to get flushed a bit from the low points. I have a new Hydraulic Pump about to be installed, and I don't want it loaded up with crap right off the bat. I even tried a sledge, but there is not much room to swing. I already have the complete rebuild kits for the swing cylinders.
You have the gland loose but can't get the cylinder out? use whatever force needed, an airless paint sprayer hooked to the hydraulics pumping water, or whatever will operate the cylinder slowly and with a relief and vent. A chain and binder, or come along will work sometimes. Don't use a sledge hammer generally.
Any recommendation as to force? I have a 4000 lb winch that I use for tree felling (works amazingly well for tilted trees), as well as snatch-blocks and HD towing straps. Should I get one of those hand winches from Harbor Freight? The sledge had very little force, given it had about 12-18" to gather steam.
if everything is free and it's just the seals holding it in place, then use whatever force it takes. If you're not going to use hydraulics, like the engine or a paint sprayer, then I like a chain and ratcheting chain binder over a come along cable style hand winch. It's slower to set up, but slower to operate and much safer. I use a pin through a cylinder end and wrap the chain around both ends of the pin to keep the chain from riding on the sharp edge of the pin hole. I don't like a motorized winch for something like this, and I don't use pressure washers for the hydraulics... anymore!
I'm guessing you have both hoses disconnected on the cylinder but thought I'd mention it just in case.
Well, I got them both out, but ended up causing a few more problems. There was quite a bit of rust around the gland areas of both. Though I thought I cleaned them out pretty well (e.g. PBlaster, a bit of steel wool, passing pieces from an old T-shirt all around the circumference), there was still quite a bit "behind" the gland. I used a manual hoist to slowly pull out the rod, but it was just not coming out. A little more, and some gentle tapping and the gland assembly finally came loose. But the piston was stuck. Some more force, and a few taps...and the piston started coming out. I relieved pulling pressure and tried to wrestle it out, but it would not give. Pulling harder, it finally came out, but the metal ring was either already damaged or got caught-up in the rust area that I could not reach. The ring came out in pieces (well, there is another $35 gone). And out poured a good deal of Bailey's Irish Cream along with the oil. The other one was just a complete bear. Even moving the gland to get the snap ring out took quite a bit of time. No matter how careful I was, it was just not going anywhere. After a good deal of pulling force, it all came out in a rush, along with both pieces of the front ring, and the real bummer-pieces from the front area of the piston. That really got me discouraged. Even more so discouraging is the relative unavailability of new pistons with the "book" JD part number (R82091, or an alleged "updated" part number H151330). Not sure if the local shop can fix this piston. They claim to be able to repair anything...but the Vickers pump was not repairable. Can pistons be welded/repaired? Every cylinder so far (2 stabilizers, 2 swing cylinders) has experienced either damage (plastic wear rings) or complete breakage. The amount of rust around each cylinder seems to be the real killer. The white creamy hydraulic oil has got to be a real contributor. Hopefully I got the last of it out of the system.
Yes, they were disconnected.
What metal ring that came out in pieces are you talking about? I'm not picturing right if these are a threaded in gland, or the wire retaining wire ring style that JD uses. Maybe I was wrong to say use as much force as required, I've never seen the guts injured from disassembly if they weren't already, or the cylinder wasn't dented.
A question... Are these cylinders the Deere type that one has to push the gland into the cylinder to remove the retaining wire ring ? If so, did you use the plastic groove filler tool before pulling the gland and piston ??
If either piston is basically in one piece and measurements can be taken, shouldn't be hard to have a new one made. Probably less expensive than JD too.
Yes, but it was destroyed during removal. I thought that I had cleaned-out the groove where the snap ring was, but there was just a crap tone of rust in there. It was quite difficult pushing in the gland to begin with, just to get to the snap ring. I am guessing that rust that was further-in the shaft ended up getting dragged-out, causing it to grab the filler. The plastic wear rings for the stabilizers were similarly damaged, but not as bad. The filler was destroyed in these as well. Just too much rust got scraped up I guess. Or there was simply something wrong, which is quite possible: When the backhoe was swung to one side, it did not "stop" correctly; it sort of reverberated back and forth a bit instead of a smooth stop. I was told that it was the pins that needed replacement (I bought new pins/bushings in preparation) and half expected the bushings to be in pieces, or the pins to be severly worn once I removed the pins. But this was not the case; the bushings were not that worn, and neither were the pins. Makes me wonder if the steel ring was damaged the last time it was repaired (e.g. not compressed properly) or it was simply defective. The symptoms/feel of the swing problem definitely pointed to bad/destroyed bushings/pins, but I don't think so...they were simply not that bad, neither side was worse than other, and only one direction (left swing) exhibited the problem. The piston is not a readily available part, at least not for the same piston. I have searched around for the piston (JD #R82091, apparently replaced with #H151330) but there are not many results aside from parts search services. I will see what they come back as far as a price goes. It used to be a +- $229 part. Maybe I will want to silicone the filler in next time, and coat with some grease. I do plan on packing the entire gland assembly with marine-grade grease when putting them back together.
Sounds like this was part of the cushion at the end of the stroke that was broken all along. The piston may be able to be welded and ground smooth. Still can't picture the metal ring. The orange plastic filler rings are no big deal, you don't need them to put the cylinder back together. To take it apart you can fill the ring with bondo, but the seals are going to be replaced anyway. The wire usually raises a ridge that has to be filed/sanded down to have any hope of getting the old seals past without tearing up.
It doesn't take much wear on the cylinder barrel trunnion bushings and pins plus the rod eye bushings and pins to create a lot of looseness in the swing of the boom. Those four pivot points can add up to a lot of looseness.
Would not the looseness on the boom be evident when moving left And right? It seems that I was only getting that when moving left. It would really bounce a bit when stopping. I do have both replacement pins, as well as bushings. I just wasn't in the mood to break anything else! You know what they say; "play with something long enough, and it will break" !! I will cleanup the bushings and try to get a real handle on wear. I guess that while everything is out, I might as well do so. Still a lot of grirt caked on in places, and I do want to paint. Thanks for the advice man! I was inclined to blow it off...
Yes, especially when the boom and dipper are extended. I was amazed how little L to R bounce there was after I had the trunnions welded and turned in a lath to OEM specs. That and new bushings on them.
Thank You Sir! I guess that means I have some more work to do. And at least I will have some bad-boy used Pins to use for miscellaneous pounding-out of things in the future! Those things should come in handy!
OK one more quick question for the Gurus...every nut I have encountered in these cylinders was locktighted. I had to heat the crap out of them to get them off, and even then they laughed at the impact wrench (a Bauer 1050 ft-lb wrench). If it were not for the giant pipe wrench and a 6 ft bar, and a bunch of bouncing, they would still be on there! Were these just ridiculously over-tightened at the factory? Do these really need locktight, or is the torque wrench enough?
It is not uncommon for red locktite to be used. I never was a fan of it on gland nuts. I couldn't afford a torque wrench that would go high enough for a rod bolt or nut. I would think yours were properly tightened when they were put together. I use a pipe wrench on the proper size socket. Plus a pipe on the wrench handle and a track bar stuck in the pipe. FWIW, I am not a guru with these things.
Even without Loctite, the piston nut/bolt can be super tight. 1500ft./lbs. is on the lower end of the scale. Loosening often takes more torque than tightening.