I'm having a problem identifying my older 450 crawler/loader. some of the parts in the book aren't what is on my machine. For example all the books show 2 canister type diesel fuel filters...but I have a rectangular black filter AR50041. The JD shop said I might have a 450B...and they couldn't do a reverse check with the numbers off the block (to see if it has a different engine that somebody switched out thru the years), These are the numbers from the block ...R55011...R55034 and R59065. The first 2 are raised and the third is stamped. Can anyone shed some light also ...the top track roller has a pipe plug for oil...but the bottom ones have nothing...no pipe plug...no grease fitting...just totally sealed. and when we went to change all the filters the transmission bottom one was covered with this slimey gelatinous substance,,,really gross....and to make maters worse a approx. 3/8" ball bearing with metal shards came out also.. It's a beast of a machine that I've only owned for a few months and am trying to get it maintained.
Some photos would help identify it.
I am by no means a JD expert but I don't recall ever seeing a B model having the loader linkage from the frames to above the lifting arms? The 450b i ran the linkage was similar to a reverse Z.
It's a straight 450 from mid to late 60's not a 450B. Sounds like the JD dealer you went to is pretty clueless.
You likely have a Transplant Orphan, no one will know by Casting Numbers as to what engine you ended up with or if a Dealer decided to replace existing and difficult to deal with parts to newer pieces. Most likely will have to get a number off the separator(On Back of Steel Face Plate) to match and same for other filters present.
Them are casting numbers off the block. You need to find the riveted on serial number tag. If it were a C or D series it would be on the front of the battery box where you step thru onto the machine on the left side. I believe its older as Dave said. The serial number should still be around the compartment if I remember right.
As I recall, the 450's right through the C models had engines that ran a long time and then died inglorious deaths. Very likely as DMiller has said it has had a transplant, either from a newer model, or a Deere blessed repower. They used to publish a Repower manual with gave the engine spec and all the extra parts and mods to shoehorn it in.
The thing is all the other filters from the book are correct. The fuel filters are the only discrepancy. Can anyone shed some light also ...the top track roller has a pipe plug for oil...but the bottom ones have nothing...no pipe plug...no grease fitting...just totally sealed. and when we went to change all the filters the transmission bottom one was covered with this slimey gelatinous substance,,,really gross....and to make maters worse a approx. 3/8" ball bearing with metal shards came out also.. It's a beast of a machine that I've only owned for a few months and am trying to get it maintained.
How about the #’s off the inj pump tag.. PLEASE DONT SCRAPE IT.. Get some gasket/paint remover. Hell, even ez off oven cleaner is better than scraping.. Some of the inj pump manuf put the model & engine size on the pump specs..
I can answer the rollers question, they are replacements. The factory hjohn deeres, to the best of my knowledge had the ability to have lubricant added to them. When I got aftermarket rollers for a 550 deere. They were 100% sealed.
Definite early Hand Clutch 450, mid to late 60s early 70s.
It had a ripper on it at some point. Looks like the control may be disconnected as it's sitting on the sheet metal.
Suspect had a hoe on it Typical mount for one
The JD machines used the same mount for a hoe or a ripper. My Cat has a similar style mount for the hoe but the ripper attachment is completely different. The control lever for a ripper is there but sitting all the way down. Would need to check the hyd. valve to see the arrangement. If it had power beyond for a hoe the hoses would have to stay connected anytime the engine was running. If it has an extra valve for a ripper wouldn't matter but may be connected just to keep them clean.
Doesn't matter, the plug was only for factory fill anyway, they're not expected to need any oil for the life of the roller. In the factory they use a special fitting that goes in the plug hole, pull a vacuum to check the seals and wait a few seconds, if the vacuum stays within acceptable limits a valve opens and a measured shot of lube oil gets sucked in by the vacuum. Run it until it's gone, or a gong, then replace, lol.
cut your losses and buy a tracked skid steer, they will work faster and more efficient , the bearing and metal shards mean big money if you have something going out
CBC 431-15AL 2500 AT 2973 1532277 This is everything I can get off the injector housing and to catman13...good idea but not possible and DMiller...not to sound dumb...but there's a left foot clutch/brake...what's a hand clutch (other than the steering clutches)?
Unfortunately that pump fit a few different models.. 400, 450, 480, 880, 2020, 2510. The engine is a :: 202D If the engine starts without help, it’s a good one.. if u have to spray start it, RUN.. There r very little parts available for the CBC injection pump.. Good luck.
That very well may be true but John Deere still has rebuild kits for the rollers available. I rebuilt one or two on the 550 that was worth saving. The fill plug was pretty useful for putting oil back in it. How long it will last I don't know for sure but it was much cheaper than an aftermarket roller.
A couple of items. That black rectangle item you think is the fuel filter may just be a water filter. John Deere and other manufacturers used them both ways and you need to insure you have a water or a particle filter in it which ever it should have. A bit confusing but that's what they did. Follow the line from the tank to the injection pump and make sure there is not another filter somewhere. Yes, many have both in series. It looks to me like your machine has the 4 speed manual transmission on the short lever on the left console. You should need to push the foot clutch all the way to the floor to shift it. It also looks like you have the two speed forward and one speed reverse shift lever on the floor. Many of them were powershift and used as a shuttle. In any case pushing the clutch half way in released it while allowing the PTO and accessories if equipped to continue to operate like a live tractor PTO. How does your operate. Am I correct or is that something different I'm looking at?
Oh yeah, I've even seen people reshell rollers that still had good shafts and such. The aftermarket rollers sometimes have a pipe plug in the center of the roller shell, if not you just stand it up on end and fill it halfway up before installing the last end cap.
anyone know how I would bleed the fuel system when we put on a new fuel filter? my 450 takes a black rectangle filter and we can't find anywhere to bleed it out. ...and the book only shows the 2 canister setup. Thanks
it's definitely the fuel filter...but no way to bleed it at the filter.
We prefilled these years ago, yes messy but less trouble getting air out as not much in the system. This filter should be ahead of the actual filters and a bleed fitting situated on that filter head.
Find yourself a squeeze bottle & fill w fuel.. fill the filter at the IN hole. When the filter is full you’ll know it. It’s messy to put on but you’ll get used to it.. because you’ll want to change that & the others 2x a year.. SO pick a date you’ll remember.. THATS IF you wanna keep the machine alive. Anyway, once u get it on & try to start the engine.. when it fires, hold the throttle at full.. IT WILL STUMBLE.. but if u did as directed, it’ll catch & run.. if not, u gotta fill it up all over again.. Good Luck
My crawler only has the black rectangle filter...unless the 2 canisters are hidden somewhere
do I change this single filter 2x/yr also
because it doesn't have the other 2
Can visually Inspect, Glass Bowl will show water or debris Wipe it off and shine a Flashlight into it.
this is very frustrating for me. My jd450 does not have the 2 canister filters or any glass sediment bowl...only this black fuel filter...are you just "playin" with me?
There were two versions, A Steel canister and a Glass Canister same base. If Glass can place a Bright Flashlight against the glass bowl and illuminate the fuel Inside the bowl, will show the garbage line at the bottom. Or can change it twice a year need it or not. Just remember to Fill it sitting on the rail then install it.
Ok now I know that you're playin with me. I'm very disappointed because I thought this forum would be a serious one when a member has a problem. What part of "my machine only has the black filter and nothing else!!!" do you not understand?
Depending on where you get your filter.. it’ll either be GLASS to which u can shine a flashlight thru.. OR.. METAL aluminum cased. I THINK this is where the confusion is coming in to play.. Nobody is pullin yer leg..
U have a 1960 fuel injection pump on the engine.. U MUST change the filter AT LEAST 2x a year to keep that inj pump alive & not run dirt/contaminated fuel thru it.. Remember, u only have 1 filter where other “modern day” systems have 2 & 3 filters in their fuel systems.. And the parts for your pump are near extinction.. I have some but they are running thin.. The manufacturer Stanadyne, doesn’t produce ANY parts for that pump so your at the mercy of the sellers.. AGAIN, THATS WHY I keep stressing the frequent filter changes.. Last I looked they were about 20-22.00 each.?? Good luck & be sure to let us know how your making out.. TPG
These will both fit the same filter mount.
Had plenty of Deere 4276 engines that only had that one rectangular filter from factory.
Place I worked in '85 or '86 had a 450 or a 450b that only had the glass filter. The owner insisted on buying fuel at the closest store even though it was 10% water, 15% rust and some fuel, so I got very familiar with the fuel filters on all his equipment! I owned a Cat D4e that had the deere style filter for a water seperator ahead of the spin-ons.
mitch504, I run a 7F for a farmer that has one as a seperator ahead of the spin on also...
I wanted to thank you guys for the advice with my 450 crawler. I am finding out that it is not a fan of "cold weather starting". It fires up great when it's been parked in my shop but when I leave it outside overnight it develops an attitude and I have to give it a shot of starting fluid. And it seems as though the transmission oil needs a few seconds to move. Any suggestions or advice? Also I've been told that I should fire it up and move/steer it so the clutches don't lock. thanks
Heat. Add a block heater if it doesn't already have one. Some use a propane, or diesel fueled torpedo heater to warm it up before starting. Be VERY careful to use very little starting fluid.
As with ALL yellow iron Get them started when cold Allow an hour or so at a fast idle to flow all the fluids for warming all the subsystems and then make maneuvering moves Block heater is best option Put on a timer or a switched outlet so can cycle the engine warm pretty often and not even start it.
Those old Deere engines never did like to start cold, a combination of low compression and tired Roosamaster injection pumps, coupled often with less than stellar performance by the battery/cable/starter combination available back then. The only exception in the tired fleet I nursed was the 690B excavators, which oddly enough had a Bosch inline injection pump. They'd moan and groan, but light in a blizzard with good batteries.
carry all the above advice into the 500 series to if you happen to have one
Do I recall a 555 trackloader with a torque converter?
Deleted. Read a question wrong and the answer did not make sense.
Shuttle shift?
Did the 690b have the wonderful musical of cold weather start advance
That I do not recall.... ancient tech, 4 section stacked gear pumps, two section two speed gear track motors, spur gears feeding planet finals etc. Dinosaur, they moved dirt well, but man did they like fuel, lol.
IIRC the old Deere's had an issue due to tolerance stack up (not that the factory ever does anything wrong). Wrong way on the stack up and the pistons did not protrude enough giving you lower compression and hard staring. They then came out with "H" pistons (taller). Installing the "H" piston would increase the piston protrusion and therefore the compression. My personal experience is that it worked and solved many a hard start complaint. The downside is you have to check each piston's protrusion and if it is too high then you have to install the old style "B" piston back in. So you could end up with an engine with both pistons in it. The unfortunate thing is the specs are not in the manual. They were only published in a solution (Deere term for service bulletin). Now that solution is too old (been archived) and cannot be viewed any longer . So this ends up being my useless information for the day
what's the best block heater to use?
Found this article on Yesterday's tractors JD 450C - block heater location - Yesterday's Tractors
We had a straight 450 dozer many moons ago. We had a straight 450 dozer many moons ago. They have dry clutches that lock up, slip, brake bands break extra. They were also a pain to adjust. Adjust them by the book if they need it other wise you'll have trouble down the road. If they're working well now that's great advice to move it around once and awhile. The other issue was they constantly broke the mounting bolts through the frame to the bellhousing.
Don't know when they fixed that side frame to main housing issue, maybe when they clean sheeted the "G" series dozers. Outfit I worked for had some 450C's and we had a stack of broken side frames in one corner of the weld shop. Deere made several updates with different gussets and such, and we had oversized the bolts going back into the main gear case, but still they only lasted so long before breaking. Tough little machines, but they had their issues.
I got another question for you guys...those power steering? helper cylinders on each of the steering clutch levers are leaking a lot...can they be rebuilt? replaced?. Are they available to buy?...if so...where? I've had the crawler parked inside my heated shop so it starts up good and I move it to keep the steering working. We've replaced ALL the filters . engine oil, trans fluid, totally greased it and it's ready to go in a few months. Some of the guages need replacing but we should be getting that done soon. Thanks and Happy New Year to all !!! ( as I said...it steers but now I need someone to adjust them EXACTLY according to the book. Anyone in the western NY area (southern tier) that would be willing to do this critical adjustment?)
Seals are still available, kit #AT27076, about $55. Rod, barrel or complete cylinder no longer available. For a complete cylinder Google search the Deere cylinder part number AT21851
I'll check into it...thanks
I ordered the kit...thanks A separate issue...the HLR creeps a little when going into the neutral position...is this a simple adjustment? How do I do it? It's a safety concern especially because it's parked in my shop for the winter and it gets started, moved and steered every once in a while Also I was told to "block" the steering levers back to try and prevent the dry steering clutches from freezing up...good idea?
A separate issue...the HLR creeps a little when going into the neutral position...is this a simple adjustment? How do I do it? It's a safety concern especially because it's parked in my shop for the winter and it gets started, moved and steered every once in a while Also I was told to "block" the steering levers back to try and prevent the dry steering clutches from freezing up...good idea?
It might be the HLR linkage adjustment. Or it could be clutch plates warping and starting to drag. Which way does it creep, forward or reverse? Check your HLR linkage for slop. You should get yourself the service manual SM2064. If your machine sits a lot, it can't hurt. Bare in mind that if it sits long enough the clutch linkage inside the steering housing could also seize, whether your levers are blocked or not. It would probably be better to just work the levers on a regular schedule.
Since you're moving the machine and levers every now and then I wouldn't block them. They might stick and not release to engage the clutch. The clutch problems occurred when sitting for long periods of time like all winter. If you run it every couple months I think you won't have any problems.
The frictions actually absorb moisture and then the steel plates rust, the rust sort of welds everything together. Just mark your calendar for the 1st of each month or whatever day is handy, fire it up, let it warm, best to run it back and forth a few lengths to oil up the finals, but in any case pull both levers to release both clutches, engage forward or reverse then let each one out until you get drag and leave it long enough to get some heat going. Then do the other side. You want to polish things a bit, and get a little heat in the frictions to drive moisture out. YMMV
Mine isn't even John Deere but the need to exercise it loses its charm when the ground is wet. I always have a big job cleaning out the undercarriage after working it an hour. Even winter, the ground never seems to freeze here in recent years. I do like to smooth out ground in winter. Getting rid of brush, and knocking the tops off small humps work much better in winter if the ground is frozen.
It creeps forward and it,s not the easiest to get neutral...I have to play with the shifter a bit to get neutr
It creeps forward and it's not the easiest to get neutral...I have to play with the shifter a bit to get neutral...just the slightest movement on the shifter does it.
Definitely sounds like a linkage issue. First check for sloppy joints and take care of that first.