Hello all, Yellow fever has struck again. I drug home a nice but weathered 310 SE back in February. It's debatable as to whether it has more green mold and mossoak than yellow paint though. SN: T0310827306 Engine Model: 4045TT050 I've posted a few questions about it here and there, but thought I would start posting my questions in the same thread so they don't get spread all over. I bought this machine back in February and have been trying to give it a little TLC while waiting for warmer digging weather. It's a 1997 310 SE with 3920 hours. Bought from the original owner. Picked it up one cold February day. Didn't think we'd get it started. It had two dead batteries, poor connections and hadn't been started in 4 months prior. I recruited my dad to help me go look at it and we brought two battery boosters. The owners son pulled up with a jumper cables and we finally got it to fire off after about an hour of messing with it. Drove it about 5 miles back to my house. I would stop along the way to check for major fluid leaks. Here's how she looked before I bought it.
I'm looking into service manuals...if anyone has a good place to get an electronic version it would be much appreciated. So one of the major leaks is the front engine seal. I'm neck deep into it Got out this morning while the rain was pitter-pattering on the roof and removed everything but the front cover. I have some questions. 1) Can I get the front engine seal out without removing the front engine cover? I'm thinking of inserting some screws into the seal to yank it over the crank shaft? There plenty of room on the seal for some self tapping screws. 2) If the answer is no, can I get the front engine cover off without jacking up the front of the engine? It doesn't seem like I can based on how far out the engine cover will have to come to clear the crank shaft. Thanks in advance for any helpful advice...
Nice looking 310 ya got there Boone. I cannot answer your seal question. But I have a question. Will this be like your Dresser 175 thread ? That was the most interesting project I have read about on here yet.
Tinkerer, seems like it's going to be a decent machine. It's rough around the edges but it's got good bones. Haha, that thread was a ride. I hope I'm not ripping the engine out of this machine. I'm not sure I'll have the material for a thread like that, but I have a few things I've done to it that I'll post up.
https://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/ Absolutely. However there are special tools to remove the speedi sleeve (which you could probably remove without it, carefully) and a special tool to install the new seal which you would definitely need (if you get a seal from Deere). The new seal will be very different. The unitized seal from Deere is pressed on with the seal and sleeve together. Other option might be to match your old seal from a bearing /seal supplier and reuse the sleeve if it is in good shape. Make sure you clean up that nose on the crank before you start.
MG, I was hoping you would find this thread. That link helped me find the engine manual which had a detailed write up on the seal removal and install. Now to locate the tools. I may call couple dealers tomorrow about rental or something. I'll probably replace the water pump while I have everything apart. Out of curiosity, would one have to jack the engine up to get the cover off of this tractor?
Yes, you would have to jack the engine up to get the timing gear cover off.
Hi boone, I've got a 1998 310SE, it's got about 5540 hours on it now. Got it last fall, former municipal rig. I don't have any front seal expertise but good luck! nick
Hey Nick, I've heard of these machines going really high hour. This will be the last of the major leaks on mine to fix. After that I'm ready to start using it... Hopefully nothing pops up!
Make sure to change all your fluids and filters including the rear axle.
How did you know I haven't changed out the rear axle? I've actually changed everything but that. But I do have the orings. I paid $10k for this machine and budgeted about $500 for filters and fluids. Unless the owner can show me his maintenance log, I can't stand to run a machine with unknown fluids. I bought all Wix filters from Rockauto. Here's what I've changed to date regarding filter and fluids. I used the Travellers oil in the main hydraulic system, but decided to go with John Deere Hytran in the transmission and soon to be rear axle. When I drained the transmission, the fluid was clean but red, almost like fruit punch coolaid color. The Hytran I put in was not that red. Wondering if that's just normal clutch material color?
If it was red then it has never been changed. The red comes from a dye they put in at the factory to find/identify leaks. Hygard that you buy from the dealer will not have any dye. I personally would not recommend any filter other than Deere filters. "If" I were to buy an aftermarket filter the only brand I would consider would be Donaldson, but that would be in a pinch if Deere filters weren't available. Just like filters I would only recommend quality oils. You made the correct choice for the transmission and the rear axle with purchasing Hygard, however the oil of choice now for the Deere backhoe's hydraulic system would be Deere's Hydrau. If you did not want to use that then I would have suggested you use 10W-30 engine oil. Hygard is no longer used in Deere hydraulic systems. With that being said you can still use Hygard in the hydraulic system of that machine.
Mystery solved on the red fluid. At least it's not ATF - I had that thought. Only 2000 hours overdue. Yeah, I'd love to use the good stuff for it all. When I bought the machine, I couldn't tell how much hydraulic fluid was in it. The site tube was frosted over. In fact, I think it was you that answered a question on replacing it. The dealer cut me off a 7" section of tubing at about $1/inch.
I called my local dealers this morning and none stocked the old seal. They had all moved on to the new unitized seal. They don't loan out the tooling either...which I expected. I don't know that the cover allows for a clearance for a chisel to extract the old ring. Nor do I really trust myself with a cutting tool on the crank shaft. Maybe a dremel with a small cutting wheel could take it off? I found aftermarket seals for the 4045 on ebay and yesterdays tractor, "Front Crankshaft Seal for Part AR67942 and AT21608". It has the same dimensions as what I need and states it fits a 310E. I went ahead and ordered it. I'm hoping it fits. Hoping my wear ring is in good shape. I'm gambling $15 and a bit of time, but I'll take the risk. Will have to fabricate an extractor and installer, but I think we can come up with something. Worse case, I'll have to take the radiator and coolers back off, call the dealer to come out with all the tooling and install the new updated seal. Probably cost me $400 to pop the old ring off and install the new seal?
Old seal is out. However, I gave dad the wrong dimensions on the OD of the seal. I was thinking it was 3" instead it was 3.315". He made an extractor out of white oak for a 3" seal. It worked, but it didn't get into the metal on the seal like we would've liked. The wear ring is grooved so it's coming out. Besides the fact that we knicked the wear ring with the threads because of my off measurements, it's just too bad to reuse. I'll be getting a unitized seal after all. There goes that $15 The ring appears to have a flange toward the back. Not sure yet on how I'm going to get it out.
I would guess if there is a lip, it is there for installation. Assuming the “speedy-sleeve” is installed with some type of loctite, I have a thought for removal. I think you could take a simple propane torch and heat the sleeve carefully(gently and somewhat quickly) and the thin layer of the sleeve should expand rapidly in comparison the the crankshaft hub. The heat would also neutralize the bond of a sealant I’d there is any. Just a thought that comes to mind. I have never removed one from a crankshaft like in this situation. It’s been decades since I used a speedy sleeve.(forgotten all I did know)
Hey Boone, Love the posts. I havent been on here regularly for some time. I just bought a 1999 310 SE as well. 2300 original hours. Was kept inside all its life. I am just beginning to start to use it but looking for advice on lots of things so I enjoy the posts.
Here is a quick view. Mine had a leak at the thermostat housing. Thats why the cover is off.
I worked on it yesterday for a bit and I got it off! It actually wasn't as bad of a job as I thought just a little meticulous. Surprisingly, I didn't find any loctite under the sleeve - it was oily. Used a little hand metal saw and cut the round tip off the blade so I could reach as far back to the flange as I could. Just slowly building a groove until the front tapered part was cut. Then used a tiny screw driver head and lightly punched it up under the seal and it came up and the whole thing came loose. I was able to pull it out with some pliers. Hoping to make it to Warrior Tractor on Monday to pick up a new seal. Once I have the seal we can see what kind of jig we need to build to install it. Making progress.
Sounds like you got a nice low hour machine. Got any pictures of it? Mine is the exact opposite...sat outside the last 23 years. I'm surprised some parts of it look as good as they do. Looks like there are a few 310 SE owners on the board which always help. EDIT: You beat me to it...that's a beefy machine. Cool! I've looked mine over for leaks while I have all this apart. I'm replacing the water pump while I have it off - it was fine and not leaking, but while I have everything apart...
I followed you a while back when you had bought that big (International wasnt it?) high lift that had the welded up block. In fact when I bought this machine, it looked great, but after warming the machine up it started leaking antifreeze up at the front of the engine and I remembered your experience with the cracks along the side of the block going from freeze plug to freeze plug. I was concerned with similar issues with this machine, but the seller was a good guy and had his mechanic tear into it and it was just a thermostat housing gasket so I bought the machine. I haven't had it more than a couple of weeks and haven't done much to it, but like you am looking to change all the fluids and start fresh. I will be watching your posts very closely to learn.
I've always had good luck with Wix / Napa Gold filters... My guess is that one of the aftermarket companies makes Deere filters, but I could be wrong.
Yes, we've still got that 175c loader. It was one of those things where once all the weak links we're addressed it's been trouble free. The seat on this 310 made the old ragged seat on the 175 look great. More on that later. I sure didn't want a re run on this machine. It didn't have any coolant leaks but it had a few oil leaks. The two major leaks were the valve bank and the front engine seal. Figured those were addressable. It's coming together. Been looking for a couple of years for an old backhoe. Some projects to do on my place and some other things to do at the farm. A loader for my old Kubota tractor was $8k. Would probably had a lift capacity at half a ton if that. I got this hoe for $10k, plus what I'm putting into it, but I could pick up a couple of cars with it.
Glad that was all it turned out to be. You'll be far ahead of that's all you have to do. I've practiced digging a few holes, but haven't done much as I'm wanting to get these leaks fixed.
I've never heard Wix to have a bad rep nor have I had any issues with them, but I don't work on this stuff day in and day out, so I'd yield to MG's advice on that. I also don't use my stuff 8 hours a day 5 days a week either.
Water pump curiosity The old pump has a mysterious plate and was wondering if anyone would know the purpose of it, besides covering up the part #s? I don't think it will fit on the new pump. Old New
Doesn't appear to serve any purpose? Weird.
Exactly what I was thinking. Can't imagine what it does.
Perhaps some sort of stiffener, which is now cast in on the replacement??
Is that an aftermarket pump or a factory deere replacement pump? Could be the difference?
Is it the shroud (#17) in the parts book ?
That's it Tinkerer. I missed that in the parts book. The yellow pump is OEM, the new pump is aftermarket. Like Swetz said, I think the aftermarket seems to have beefed up the flange a bit. I'll keep the old pump in case the new one gives trouble. This old pump may have gone another 4000 hours...who knows.
Every dealer is different. I picked up the new unitized seal Monday from Warrior Tractor (Construction). I've typically ordered parts over the phone from the local JD ag dealer since it's closer and they can source any of the construction parts. They're usually a few bucks cheaper too. So I naturally called them about the seal and loaning out the tool. They could get the seal in a couple of days but said they didn't loan out the tool. On a whim I just decided to go to Warrior since they had the seal in stock and I could look a it. While checking out at the counter I asked the parts guy if they loaned out the installation tools, figured it never hurts to ask, and to my surprise he said they sure do. I just have to pay the price for them which is refunded as soon as I bring it back. Score! If I'd known this we wouldn't have had to make the extractor. I followed the engine manual table for the right adapters. Oiling the inner seal, being careful not to get it on the sealer. As I was looking back over the pictures, I noticed what looks like a hair line crack about 7 o'clock. I sanded the paint off after installation and to my relief it was just a mark.
Which Warrior did you go to? I visit the one in Graysville most of the time. I've noticed that 5gal Hygard is $5.00 cheaper at the AG version of JD.
The Huntsville location. Yup, same on the Hygard. They're trying to pay for these new stores!
Back when I bought this machine, I drove it about 5 or 6 miles to my house. My biggest worry besides springing major leak, overheating, failing brakes, etc. were the front tires. I wasn't sure if they'd make it. One was a Goodyear Laborer F3 showing the belts. The other was a Firestone Harvester that had been patched multiple times (according to owner). Neither inspired confidence. But they made it. After looking around for a day or two, I found a great deal on some 11L-16SL Carlisle F-3s from one of those local discount warehouses that buy a truckload of mystery merchandise. I guess it kinda like storage wars for 18 wheelers trailers. Anyway, they had 4 of these tires and I bought 2 of them off their ebay listing. I picked these up for less than $100/each. They are normally around $175/each. I was pretty excited about this find.
Also cleaned, inspected and repacked the bearings while I had the wheels off. Took the tires up to a little local tire store. The guy said he got about half way around and it locked up his mounting machine on both tires. But he got them mounted. I also removed the steering rod and aligned the front wheels using some angle iron clamped to the rotors. Took notes of some work to do later on the king pins. The seller roaded it to every job and so the front has taken a beating.
Score! I always like a good deal! Those old tires were good and gone. That would have made me nervous too. Good job on doing it right with working on the front end while you got it down. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and place an order for my buckets tomorrow off of the bucket place on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-18-Bac...796652?hash=item1eefc6b7ac:g:0q4AAOxy14VRK8bN
All I use as well. WIX or Napa Gold (made by Wix). Have used them for 40 years on farming equipment etc. No oil-related failures ever. I'm giad you guys bought 310SE's so I have someone to chat with
Sure looks that way Boone
Hi Fred, I really like the looks of that bucket on ebay. I'd buy the side cutters right way to make your side cutting edges last forever. All the big excavators I ran in the sand mine had them. Attaching a picture. I see you have 4 bolt holes on each side to bolt them on. Wish the bucket that came with my 310 had them. I suppose I could torch some holes but haven't yet. They make the bucket last a lot longer and are great for cutting off roots.
Anytime I am learning. I may have scored on a repair manual (both of them) we will see when I get it in my hands..
Thanks for the tip on the side cutters. I am looking into that today!
That looks like a nice heavy duty bucket at a discount price compared to OEM. Should last you a lifetime. The cutting edges might go well based on how thick the sides of the bucket are. Like Nick said, would be great for cutting roots.
It is nice to bounce things off of people who have the machine. I was reading your thread on the deceleration smoke and I think might does that too. It did it when I was driving home anyway, but thought that may have been because it hadn't been run in 4 months prior. It seems to have gotten a little better since I've been running it.
On the whole smoke thing, I checked my air filter, looked brand new. I'm not losing antifreeze so I'm not worried about a gasket leaking either. Doesn't use oil and the oil looks and smells normal. No moisture building up on the inside of the filler cap. I suppose I could send in an oil analysis but I think I'm going to run her for a while and monitor. Performance is great, lots of power, starts very well. If I was bucket shopping I'd get that ebay one for sure. I replaced my first bucket teeth pins last night. Was digging in rocky ground, must have sheared those pins and the teeth fell off. I bought earlier pins and teeth from John Deere, found out NAPA has the Fanggs replacement teeth and pins for about 2/3 the price around here. Seem to be wearing well. Part #TF23D for the teeth. TF23P for the flex pins. Can't play today, back to real job lol. Nick
Same, I replaced my air filters. I had a concern that my front seal leak could be due to high compression build up in the crank case, but I have no blowby and the vent tube off the valve cover is shiny clean all the way through. After looking at the speedy sleeve, it's badly grooved and looks like it got a hot spot on the underside of it. Will be anxious to know if the new seal fixes it. I haven't used mine enough to know if it uses any oil, but like you it's strong, cranks good and sounds great.
I got my teeth and pins off of ebay too. Very reasonably priced. I had one tooth adapter that was worn. The new tooth just flopped around on it, so I knew that wasn't going to work. A bit of welding and grinding. Good thing this is covered up by the tooth, it's not pretty. But if gave a nice tight fit. Ready for dirt.
Another known problem this machine had was a bent stabilizer rod. It wasn't bent bad, but it was leaking bad. The worst part about these cylinders compared to the Dresser is the locking ring inside the housing. We found that prying it up with a screw driver and sticking a feeler gauge behind it would keep it from snapping back down. I took it off and took it to a hydraulic shop to have the rod straightened, but they wanted to make me a new rod. They did check out the piston and barrel to make sure it wasn't galled. I dodged a bullet on that. I dismantled the cylinder when I took it to them and had them bust the nut off the rod. While they had it, I had them reseal the whole thing. I also replaced the rubber spacers on both stabilizer pins near the shoes. Not sure why they were both missing.
Great Pics! Those darn stabilizers! Always forgetting to put those up when I go to move from a site! Oops! One thing I didn't know about the stabilizer feet was that you can pull the pins up the arm of the stabilizer and flip the feet over. The smoot part of the feat is where you work on pavement and other things, but the pointy side of the feet is for working in dirt and its supposed to hold you more. (The fun things you find out when you read the operators manual) I never knew this, and neither did my friend who has owned one for years. Im learning a lot here Boone so keep the pictures coming.
Also, how many hours did you say your machine had?
Also did you use one of those "pin buddies" or whatever they are called to install you bucket teeth?
Haha, I've already left my stabilizer down once already and started moving. Doh! I also read that about flipping the feet over. I saw those two pins that go in the stabilizer arms. I wasn't sure what those were for, but I just went back to the manual and see what you're talking about. Pretty cool. Do you still have rubber feet still on your pads? Mine is gone and even one of my pads (pictured above) has a corner broken out of it. I wish I had one of those pin buddies. I had a short piece of scrap angle iron with a truss bracket on it which I used like a pin buddy. It worked well enough. If I changed these often enough I would definitely get one. I saw them for around $60. My 18" bucket is missing two teeth. I'm planning to take the best of the ones I removed from the 36" and put on my 18". Mine has 3920 hours on it with a working hour meter. I think I've put about 4 hours on it. It's been outside it's whole life and it shows. I was at an auction over two years ago and found three LB95s on the yard from the water department. They had cab, air, 4-n-1s, pilot controls. One of the machines went for just over $10k. Many times I wish I'd been prepared to buy it, but I was just starting to look at that time. All three had around 5000 hours on them. They were beat up a bit, but they ran good and had cold air. Where did you guys go about getting those municipal machines?
I'm slowly getting things back together. I ran it a bit with the new seal. Happy to report no engine oil leaks.
Another leak I've had to tackle on this machine was the backhoe valve bank. The top of the spools all leaked. The bottom return to center caps which are vented were squirting oil. I disconnected 12 lines from this thing and took it to a hydraulic shop to have them go through the seals on it. Ended up they only replaced the seals on top and bottom of the spools.
Got the thing back and didn't really pay much attention to one of the spools which was a bit sticky. So i put the bank back on. Shoving 80 lbs of lead up the rear of a 310 is not fun. Anyway, turns out the swing spool was not returning to center. I thought you've got to be kidding me. Take it all back off again. Take it back to the hydraulic shop and explain what the problem is. Had to show them with some pliers what was happening. The young guy took it back apart and found a bent spring against the poppet valve. They fixed it on the spot and all seemed well. Got it home, got it back on. Leaking as bad or worse on the two center relief valves. I knew they didn't replace those because the seals which you can see are black and had yellow overspray on them meaning they were factory seals. So I knew then they didn't replace all the seals. At least I could get to these without taking the bank back off again. The two outer reliefs had the orange seals on them so I knew they'd been replaced in the past. Ordered the seals. Was able to replace them no problem. That seemed to fix the valve bank leaks. After that ordeal, i needed a few pressure relief seals myself.
Man that stinks. At least you were able to fix them right without much hassle other than your frustration. Way to stick with it. Sometimes when things keep going wrong, you have to just walk away for a while and think about it. Just remember, everything can be fixed someway or somehow....And the new belt looks nice on the front of the engine!
Here is a picture of my stabilizer pad, I have the pad flipped around now so the street pad side is against the cab and the dirt side is the one that goes into the ground now. 99.9% of my work will be on the dirt around the place so I figured I would go this route.
Thanks for the picture, Fred. I haven't flipped mine yet, but like you most of my digging will be in the dirt. It's easy enough to flip them around. Ran it a bit this weekend. Pushed over a blow down stump that I'm planning to bury. Need to cut more off it before i bury it. Hauled an oak branch to my burn pile, loaded up some wood chunks in it and set a t-post with the backhoe. It's super versatile. Loving it so far.
When buying any machine, the first thing you notice is the operator station and the specifically the seat...at least for me. This one showed it's weathered age. It was comfy, just not inviting. Seat belts were completly locked up. The armrests were in the box under the seat, but the plastic bushing were split and the bracket and dowels were pitted bad. I talked my Dad into taking on this part of the project. We lifted this thing over the back and took it to his shop where it underwent an overhaul.
The forward and reverse slide was locked up. The only thing that did work was the turning mechanism, the lumbar and the seat recline although the spring on the lever was broken. The seat had Sears and Roebuck stamped on it, wish I had a picture of the tag. The seat has a microswitch on it such that when turned to the backhoe operation, it diverts the second stacked pump pressure to the backhoe. When it's forward it unloads the rear pump so more power can be used for driving...credit to DeereTracks for this info ( HeavyEquipmentForums ). The switch still worked in this condition. The swivel worked, even though the track and bearings had rust.
The spring tension adjuster didn't work so it was fixed.
Ordered armrest and seat belt from NorthernTool. About a quarter of the cost of the dealer armrest and seat belts. While Dad had the seat. I removed the floor pad and extracted about 20 lbs of redclay mud under the mat. I washed all this out and repainted the pans.
Just curious how are you setting T posts with it?
Man that was rough looking but it looks like a million bucks now!
I set the post in the ground by hand enough to stand up on it's own. Then set the bottom side of the backhoe bucket on the top of the post. Ease down with the boom and ever so slightly in with the stick to keep it straight. Wish i had a picture. I'm sure someone's done it before. It was an eye sore. The vinyl we used was actually left over from the seat we did on the 175C. It's a few years old, but marine grade. It's good quality stuff. I'm planning to keep this indoors so hopefully it'll last my lifetime and maybe my sons. Kudos to my dad who endured the fight with this seat.
I had no intention of painting this machine. I had painted the rought spots. The tanks, battery box and the floor grates on top of the tanks, but that was about all i was going to paint. But then while I had the front apart, i thought now sure would be a good time to paint the front of this thing. I had tried to give new life to the painted black decal stripe down the hood, but wasn't really happy with it. It also had some paint peeling bad. Figured the hood would be the main thing I'll see while on it. Splurged on some glass blasting. Took it to guy down the road who has a mobile unit. He charges $200/hour and he did these two pieces in 25 minutes. Well worth it.
Front bumper was bent This isn't a heavy bumper. It straightened pretty easy on a railroad beam on a light weight press.
BTW, I'm rolling all of this paint on with a small roller. Kinda tedious, but the JD paint kinda paints itself. It spreads very well and looks good enough for me on a farm machine. I can do little parts at at a time without major cleanup on a gun. The black is Rustoleum high gloss. Now it just needs a decal. I bought some Oracle 651 outdoor vinyl and made a sticker on my wife's cricut craft machine. I have a whole new respect for that little machine. I even made a gear shifter pattern sticker and a parking brake sticker for the button. You can see how bad the front was pitting. I put two coats on this hood immediately after it was blasted.
Here's the final before and after. She's about as good as she's gonna get. Day I brought it home three months ago with my dad. Today with my boys.
That looks really good. Now you got me wanting to paint mine.
Unbelievable, it looks brand new. Ron
Man that looks fantastic! You are really knocking this thing out in a hurry! There is no way I could get that much done in that short of time! That's great you have a portable bead blaster guy to come by. Money well spent over time with a wire wheel and a grinder!! Any interest in selling a shifter pattern vinyl decal? (I need one too)
Thanks guys. Painting is not my favorite, but the few hours spent will last for years. Thanks for the comments. Yeah, it's been a time sink. My wife says she wished I'd rub on her like I do this backhoe. She's nick-named it "Precious". She was riding with me the other day on it and she said, "I'm not going to say anything bad about it while I'm riding on it. You know like Christine, I don't want it mad at me.". Send me your address via PM. Will be glad to make you a shifter pattern sticker.
Nicely done. Looks like a great machine and it sounds like the mechanical gremlins are worked out. I'm on the opposite side of a Case 580 project, but hope mine turns out as nice as yours has.
HA I can relate to how your wife is, mine in the same way!! PM on the way!
I just found your thread. Wow! I'll be sure to keep up with your progress. That's a ton of work. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
The yellow paint that you used, is that from JD or where/what is that? Looking good!
Congratulations......good looking machine! Looks brand new after sitting out for a long time. Amazing what a little TLC will do!
It is JD construction paint. They have two shades. One is for 1992 and later. It's a darker shade of yellow. Took a gallon and a half and I could probably go over some of it again.
Thanks Dad! Appreciate you tackling the basket case seat.
You thread has inspired me. I picked up an older Cat 426 and it ran and everything worked when I got her she has spent most of her life outside so she is pretty weathered. I have been repacking all the hydraulic cylinders and replacing all the hoses. Today I decided to cleanup and paint my loader cylinders. I had them off and I spray bombed them. I am not going to get as detailed and as nice as yours but figure while I have things off I will clean and paint them. The rest will have to wait until I get my new home and shop built. Then I can strip her down and pretty her up. For now I need to get her in tip top mechanical shape. She was an old town machine so it is in good overall condition, just old.
Congrats on your 426! Great time to paint them while you have them off! I wish I'd painted my cylinder and stabilizer while I had the cylinder off. I really didn't intend on painting all of this machine which is why I didn't paint them the time. One thing led to another and I just couldn't help myself. Got any pictures of your 426? Seems like most of those municipal machines are a good deal and good condition if you can find them.
This weekend was the fun job of replacing the king pins in the 310. The seals on both my king pins were long gone. The zerks were gone, thrust washers gone on one side, no keeper bolt on one side. Looked like someone had beat the tops of the pins and gave up on them or something. I'm not sure what the story was behind them. The zerks seem a bit vulnerable in their locations on the very top and bottom of the pins. These had not seen or taken grease in years, unfortunately. I ordered 2 king pin kits from Finney Equipment & Parts. Single kit included the pin, 2 bushing, keeper bolt, seal, thrust washers and zerks - $125/kit.
Looking at the parts manual, the front axle seemed straight forward to remove and it actually was. 1) Crib up the front 2) Removed wheels and hubs 3) Removed tie rod 4) Remove steering cylinder (make sure you remove hoses first in case the axle just happens to fall off the jack). 5) Remove keeper bolt on the front axle pin
My brother keeps our press at his shop and he also has a torch which I figured would be needed. So we loaded the axle up and headed down the road. The Harbor Freight press almost met it's match today. The first pin extraction was a bit unnerving with each build up of probably the maximum 20 tons this press put out and then a BANG, pin moved a quarter inch. Small victories. I was glad to hear the pops because it meant the pin was moving. We pushed out the bushing using metric sockets that were just under the bore size and just at the bushing size. Been better to use a seal driver, but this worked well. We honed the bores a bit to knock the surface rust off. The old pin and bushings did their job in taking the wear.
The other side put up a fight and required pulling out the heat. Notice the 2x4s replaced with C channel. Also the press exploded. We're fortunate no one was hurt. We patched it back together where it broke and proceeded to finish the job. Very glad to get these things out and replaced. I didn't get any pictures of the old pins. They were really wore. Got the axle back on this eve, but still need to put the steering and wheels back together.
I will start my own thread and post some pictures. I don't want to hijack this thread.
After being stove up for the last few days from the kingpin job, I finally got out this eve and put the steering cylinder and lube lines put back on. I sprayed off the burnt spots. Hoping to reassemble everything else on Saturday.
The early spring winds have taken a toll on an already weathered and rotting cupola on my barn. It seems after every strong wind it would lean over. I had already taken the weather vane off for fear of it punching a hole in the roof if toppled. So I rigged up a wooden hoist for the 310 by sandwiching a couple of 2x6s.
Planning to road this to the farm and a couple other places, so it was priority for me to fix the hazards. Bonus if I could fix the signal lights too, but I wasn't going to spend $80 for a turn signal switch. I would bypass it if necessary. The "passenger" side front amber was busted out so I had to order a whole new new fixture from Deere - $80. Used ones with shipping were within 10 and 20 bucks so I just decided to go new. Bulb was out on the back drivers side. The hazard switch was locked up, wouldn't click to activate or deactivate. Another $70 switch I didn't plan to purchase. Even bypassing the switch with a wired connection, the hazards wouldn't flash. However, all the ambers would come on if the turn signal switch was activated. The opposite side of the signal direction would light solid. So I at least new my lights were now working and were getting voltage. Bought the OE flasher unit ($40) based on another members experience. Hard wired plug, new relay, and flashers are now working and the turn signals work too! Now on to the switch. The switch was locked up and so I soaked it in WD-40 for several hours. Still not working. The button just would not toggle. It was resisting the ON position. The switch toggle button easily prys out of the top to reveal a plastic ball socket. I don't have a picture, but inserting a screw driver and toggling seem to work nice and crisp. I greased the plastic rod of the toggle button and socket and put the button back on the switch and it started clicking on and off. Plugged it back and it surprisingly worked! Even the light in the switch now blinks. On to the next item.
Finally changed out the rear fluid. Was a pain to get the plugs out. I made sure to remove the fill plug first to make sure I could get fluid back in before draining. The square head on the plug limited where I could get my big pull handle. I had to use a jack on a smaller wrench break the fill plug loose. The craftsmen wrench survived. Drained 3.5 gallons of dirty fluid. I'm sure brake material is a big part of that. The magnet had a good bit of metal sludge on it, but no big particles. Filled with 3.5 gallons of Hygard. The brakes seem to work smoother and the brake chattering is gone. I had some amount of chatter before. I've heard Hygard has some additive to prevent this. Hopefully, it's not just a honeymoon period and it will stay that way for a while.
What did you use? Maybe a large funnel attached to a hose? I'm soon to do this one myself.
Exactly, I bought some 3/4" clear tubing from the local hardware store. 5 feet should be plenty. Taped up the fill end (to prevent dirt) and fished it down to the rear axle. Removed tape, put it in fill hole. Then I just held the other end with a small funnel and zip tie. I mostly just held the tube and funnel while I poured, checking periodically for the overflow. I also jacked up the rear a slight amount with the stabilizers so I could get the book value of 3.5 gallons in there. Sitting level it only held about 3 gallons, probably enough but wanted to get what the book called for plus that was what came out. Good luck. I'd recommend it based on my short time with the new fluid.
Valve Bank Woes...Again Was helping a neighbor last week tear the remains of the trunk off a stump in his yard. His 16" saw nor mine with 18" bar wouldn't go all the way through the stump. So we cut as far as we could and I used the backhoe to tear it off the stump. Got the job done, but the valve bank leak reared it's ugly head again. It was near dusk and I could see oil spraying 3 ft out the back of the machine. This morning, I got it out in the daylight and I had dad video the leak so we could see where it was coming from. I know it's leaking out the bottom of the return to center caps, but from the video you'll also see it's leaking from between the first and second valve body. We have the bank off. Picked up a few orings today from Deere and have spool seal kits on order. Little back history on this valve bank...I had it rebuilt at a hydraulic shop couple of months ago. It came back with a sticking spool and two of the pressure reliefs leaking bad. Not impressed with their workmanship. I was hoping I could get by with it till this winter, but it's not going to wait. On the bench...
The big oring between the valve bodies it pretty straight forward, however, the return center caps has me a bit puzzled. I have a theory that the shop only replaced the upper and bottom orings on each spool. The parts diagram shows another small oring on the spring screw that probably didn't get replaced. Item #10 in the diagram. Perhaps this is allowing fluid into this cap (#3). When I park the machine and turn it off. I can relief pressure on the hoe and I hear and see fluid leaking out of the top of the #3 cap. There is what I assume to be a small vent on the top of this cap. I don't think any fluid should be in this cap. Correct me if I'm wrong. To get to this #10 oring, the screw #5 has to be removed. But when we tried to remove the screw, the other end of spool loosened. The two outer valves have a removable end. So in essence, on two of the valves we have nothing to hold on to to remove the screw. Is the screw reverse thread? Any ideas?
Just remove the spool from the section. Depending on what section you are working on there is a hole in the spool that you can place a punch through to hold the spool and loosen the spring retaining bolt (it is NOT left handed thread). Just be careful if the hole is in the finished part of the spool make sure it does not leave any ridges at the hole that could cause the spool to stick. If the hole is in the reduced diameter section of the spool you don't have to worry about that. When assembling, then the spool is in the section and and the seals are installed with the spool in place. There is a special tool to put the seals on with (JDG734).
Thank you! Got the spring screw out the way you suggested. The shop which overhauled this the first time installed the poppet and spring in such a way that spring (#13 above) flared out and they sandwiched the valves together with part of the spring out of the port. This galled up the valve body. When I brought it back to them, they replaced the bent spring with a bigger spring. But the poppet was wedged in the bore (unknown to us at the time). When dissasembling it today, the poppet put up a fight coming out. The others just dropped in. I'll be ordering a Deere spring on Monday. Below is what they had installed. The big oring between the valve sections measured just a tad smaller than the seals we got from Deere on Friday. Not sure if they were just compressed or if they were actually smaller. They're maybe two months old. Also, they didn't replace the wiper seals and the inner seal was just an oring. I don't have the seal kit yet to compare, but the service manual shows a special looking seal with a flange on it, not just an oring. Even this oring wasn't very snug around the spool. The valve bodies were dirty, gritty and poorly assembled. Really disappointed in $500 I paid to have this done. It will be cleaned thoroughly and internals coated with hydraulic oil before it all goes back together. Any other suggestions? We plan to make sure the galling has no ridges or lips on it. Will this have any affect on things after it goes back together. I figure the big oring between sections should prevent leaks, but the way it was leaking before, the big oring looked okay, just perhaps undersized.
Deere uses lip seals. If the spools have some scoring at the seal area you may have some seepage. I have a stud I screw into the spring end of the spool and I mount the spool into a drill press. Run the press and I use Emory paper to polish the spool as best as possible. Sometimes in real bad cases where a customer does not want to buy a section I'll use 220 grit, then 400 grit and then 600 grit to polish the spools. Only polish where the seals ride, not where the working hydraulic part of the spool resides. If the seat at the bottom is good and the poppet moves OK you should be fine. I'll get you the exact dimensions of that O-ring tomorrow. Again, make sure you use Deere parts here too.
O-ring between the sections T118685 Inside diameter = 3.484" Nominal section (thickness) = 0.139" Durometer = 70
Thanks for double checking. I got 5 of the new Deere T118685 rings on Friday. I'll try to get a picture comparing the one's the shop put in. Definitely going with all Deere seals in this thing. I was a bit worried when I took this to a third party shop anyway, that they wouldn't have any special seals, but was hoping maybe they would. Lesson learned on this one. I've ordered the #13 replacement spring and will pick that up at Warrior tomorrow, they didn't have it in stock. Also should get the Deere spool seal kits today or tomorrow in the mail. The spools look good, but we may polish them a bit where the seals ride.
Spool kits (AT280406) came in Monday. In order to get the 2 wiper, 2 inner spool seals and at most 2 spool end o-rings, you must buy 100 other o-rings in these kits. There are 13 individual labeled packets of rings in each of these kits.
They're all cleaned up ready to go back together. The spring retainers and springs have been cleaned of their rust. We installed the inner seal using the wiper seal and a piece of pipe over the spool. I didn't have any luck finding the special tool JDG734. The dealer said they didn't have one to loan out. Lubed up the seal, used a clamp to apply light consistent pressure and a screw driver to persuade the lip on it's proper direction. Worked like a charm. After the seal was in, the wiper could be removed to inspect the inner seal. Here's a picture of the o-ring Wynn's used when they "resealed" this thing. They also reused the old 20 year old wiper seals. It's no wonder it was destined to fail.
Going back together. Picture of the right size poppet spring.
Thank you for the continued great write up. This will surely help others doing this work.
No problem. I hope it will help someone. We got it mounted this eve, but still need to hook up all the lines. I'm almost afraid to try it.
You shouldn’t be afraid to try it… It looks like you did a better job than the “professional“ hydraulic shop you took it to the first time. Nothing is more disappointing than taking something to a place that is supposed to be proficient at repairing such things and finding out that you would have been better off doing it yourself. Unfortunately, the harsh reality of it is, if you went back to them and showed them what they did, they probably wouldn’t give a ****…
Tags...I think that pretty well sums it up!
You've said what dad and I were thinking this whole time. Well, the yard needed mowing, but my curiosity got the best of me. Got the lines back on and put all 5 gallons of fluid I had on hand. New fluid...again. It was dark by the time I got the fluid in. Ran if for maybe 20 minutes outside the barn just cycling through all the motions getting it up to temp. NO LEAKS! Next week I have a stump to dig out and that will be the true test when I hit the reliefs and get it hot. I slept good last night.
Well that was quite the deal. I think your dad may have gotten a shot of hydraulic fluid on him filming that leak! Or it was CLOSE!! That was quite the leak!!! Nothing more dissappointing than having someone do shoddy work. I hate that for you. Looks like you have this nailed though. Now I know who to go to if my valve bank leaks or if I need an o-ring and dont want to buy 100. Great JoB!! Are you putting hyguard in your machine or regular hydraulic oil?
Haha Fred, the phone got a bit of oil on it. I think Dad may have been spared. Yes, it's been quite the ordeal. Should've just done this to begin with. Sure would've saved me some grief and money. I didn't get to play with it this weekend, but I did add some hydraulic fluid. I've been using Hygard in everything but the hydraulics. The hydraulics get Travelers Premium hydraulic fluid for the reason that I've dumped so much into it. I'd go broke using Hygard in it. I bought 5 gallons of 10w30 motor oil that I topped it off with this weekend. It's a little higher quality and a bit more $ than the TSC fluid.
I knew that the G series 310s were compatible with motor oil on the hydraulic side of things, but E series? Hadn't seen or heard that. IMHO the transmission has to have Hygard, just no way around it. The main hydraulic tank on mine (310E) does have some Travelers in it.
That's interesting. I can't speak to the differences in the E and G hydraulic systems that make one recommend it and one not. From the research I've done, cheap hydraulic fluid has the lowest additive package of any oil. It's not regulated. Holds no certifications. It may say it can be used in place of xyz, but it's not the same as far as the additive package. No one holds the cheap oil accountable. I know TSC oil doesn't contain anti-chatter additives that say Hygard and Hytran use. I know this based on our Dresser 175C which uses Travelers and chatters like crazy and this 310 which chattered before I put Hygard in it. It no longer does. Motor oils are certified, if labeled, and have accountable standards. Motor oils also have a number of additives and detergents that hydraulic systems probably don't need, but in general are safe to use as long as the viscosity is correct. I'm sure there are exceptions. I'm not recommending anyone do this. I was mainly looking for something better than straight TSC hydraulic fluid, but not as expensive as Hygard.
Had a little window of time to dig around a pine stump. Just planning to bury it where it is. I ran out of daylight, but it sure was nice to dig and not have a slick spot underneath the rear! So far so good.
You're gonna have to re-wax that thing if you keep using it to dig stuff!! LOL Also I am jealous, you dont seem to nearly have the amount of rocks in your soil that I do!!
I know, I can't be having any dust on it. The soil varies around here. No rocks here or much at the farm. Weekend after this I have a dig and bury job at my brothers, so we'll find out if we hit rock or not. It's the same place we did the drive-way project on my track loader thread. The old barn has been demo'd and he's just about burned all the wood and now needs the concrete and blocks buried. After that have a tile job the farm. Going to replace the galvanized pipe on the road leading up to the barn. Should be dry enough to tackle. She's might get a little muddy.
Tinkerer, here's my king pin cover. Be interesting to see if it holds up. I'll probably apply a second coating since the first settled a bit. But I like it. Can't hardly tell it's there.
Got knocked out of my dig and bury job today, so thought I'd repack my swing cylinders. They were keeping the rear frame wet. I didn't want to see any oil near this infamous valve-bank. We used a coffing hoist tied to the front of a tractor to pull the cylinders out. For anyone doing this on their 310 E/SE and maybe other series, the piston nut is 46mm. Had a nick on one of the cylinders. We sanded it down with 600 grit and then 2000 then 3000 grit. Got it as smooth as we could.
We deep cleaned the piston and gland with brake cleaner then soaked and brushed it in mineral spirits. Then dried with compressed air. All the seals were coated in oil before assembly. New seals from HW Parts. Was about $177 for both cylinders. Greased the piston and entry to the barrel going back in. The second cylinder went way faster than the first. Tried it out for a while and no leaks.
Nice work. Did you have to use heat to get the piston nut loose? Also, that ring on the nearest rod in the photo. What caused that?
Surprisingly, the nuts on both these cylinders came off with no heat and just the short pipe you see. Dad and I together both put all we had on it. If one person were doing this you might need almost twice the length of pipe. The nuts are lock nuts and so it didn't have any lock tite on them. That's just a grease ring the wiper had pushed. I don't think I had fully swung it around yet when that pic was taken.
The 310 project has done a project. I took a few pictures this weekend I thought I'd share. The rains this past spring just about washed our barn road away at the farm. The 60ish year old 24" tile was overwhelmed. The tile is fed from two springs on the right side of the picture below and a lot of hill run off. This project was in the forefront of my mind when I bought this machine. We waited until the weather was dry and there was just a trickle stream. Then hurricane Laura hit and it rained just about every day up to this project. One more picture taken this spring shows how it was eating away.
Woke up at dark Thursday morning at 5am. Went out to my barn cranked the 310. Greased it up good, hit the saddle and headed west. Met my brother and dad at the ole Gin House for $3.99 breakfast. Finished the trip to the farm after 18.5 miles. Took about 1 hour and 20 minutes. The majority of the trip was on back roads which meant I kept it in 3rd to prevent bucking and bouncing into the ditch. The 310 turbo whine sounded good in them hollers.
At this point, our plan is to install three 24" double walled plastic pipe. I fueled up the 310 and began on each of the four corners pulling back the old field and chimney rock that had been there for years. Notice old exposed water line exposed from the wash out. Next unearthing the old tile. Would love to know how many gallons have gone through this thing over the decades. One the best things about this project is working with my brother and dad. We had a blast. Glad my hydraulic lines on the crowd made it through. They are weathered to say the least. The old tile was rusted the whole length on the bottom.
I'd have to dig on one side and then go down the road and come in on the other side dig for awhile. Extendahoe would've been handy. Glad we brought our boots. It rained on us twice, but we were grateful for the shade. About 100 degree heat index and 70% humidity.
The presence of water actually helped us get it fairly level. We don't have any fancy lasers. Wish I did! Rolled them in one at a time.
We couldn't do this job without letting the track loader get in on some of the action. We dug out a couple of high spots at the barn to get down to some chert to use as packing between the tiles.
Load of gravel. Spread by the 5140 and a box blade.
Next was trying to reshape the head of the inlet. We built up dirt to keep it from coming over the road. Tried to widen the head wall to match up with the tile. We could use some rip rap here, but there's tons of rock under the dirt that will probably be exposed after a few good rains. See my ruts? Places you don't take a two wheel drive backhoe. Had to unstick myself twice with the backhoe. Left this to the MFWD tractors.
Before inlet of tile After inlet - there's a lot of rock under that dirt. I know some of this will wash. Before outlet After outlet. The middle tile is running pretty good.
It's not perfect. Couple of things we would've done different, but I think it'll do for the next few years anyway.
All set for that next big rain!
Nice job! That should work just fine, great way to spend a day with family....
Duplicate post....
Good job on your pictures! Good looking equipment, especially like the JD backhoe and the Dresser 175c.
Let it rain! Maybe we'll be ready for the 100 year flood. Good times for sure. We all had a blast. It's an even better time when nothing breaks down. Thanks! Got everything packed back up and made the 18.5 mile trip back home on Saturday.
Word is getting around that I have a backhoe. Always thought if I could get an easy job or two a year to pay for fuel and a couple of hoses, I might entertain the thought. Couple of weeks ago my brother's neighbor asked if he could move a ditch for him. My brother is not in the business, but the neighbor sees my brother's equipment out from time to time. My brother said he couldn't do it with his tractor, but I had a backhoe and he'd ask me if I was interested. So my brother and I went over and surveyed. Involves clearing couple of trees and stumps and moving the existing ditch over a few feet and seeding and strawing it. We figure we could do this and make it look really good. I'm not crazy about moving a water way even when small, but the customer said he called the Army Corps and they said as small as it was just take pictures before and after. It will be fine. I'm also staying out of the easement. I had no idea what to charge for this, so I just bid a time and material price. $100/hour. The guy said, "When can you start?". Was supposed to start last weekend, but hurricane Zeta rained it out. Marked out the new ditch with flags and had the customer review it. He's approved the line on the new ditch with only a small tweak. Having 3 loads of chert delivered this afternoon to pack the old ditch. I'll be driving the backhoe and hauling the little Kubota with box blade over here in a bit. It's about a 7.5 mile drive. Wish me luck.
Ha! Its Saturday morning Boone, are you there yet are are you still driving the 7.5 miles there??!! $100 bucks an hour sounds good for you since guys around here charge $60-85. I thought about getting a little old mid 1980's C70 chevy and a trailer to do the same thing like you and earn a little cash on the side, but what scares me is the liability of digging into something that the owner of the property doesent know is there like gas lines, water lines, sewers etc. But if you work in a rural area only as opposed to the suburbia area you would be in much better shape. Good Luck show some pics of what you are doing. I just dug 220' of water line for the ship and going to do another 440' of electric line. Good luck!
Hey Fred, after Precious reached cruising speed, we made to the site in about 30 minutes. We hit it yesterday morning at about 6:45. Worked till about 5. I hate this DST time change thing. We ended up with 4 loads of chert delivered late Thursday. First thing Friday I started building a road across the ditch swale with the chert. The land we're on is soooo soft. I underestimated how soft. It took a whole load of dirt just to have a stable enough road for me and a full bucket load to cross it. We just had the truck keep bringing loads. On about the 7th load the truck broke through the crust and got stuck. They had to call another operator to unload the truck with my backhoe. Guess they were afraid me and the dump truck driver would beat the truck to death if we tried it. Ha! It was funny, when they were talking to the guy coming, he kept asking if it was a wobble stick backhoe. Guess he was dreading it. But he stood Precious up as high as she'd go and she unloaded a lot of it. Then they strapped Precious' backhoe bucket to the front of the truck and she pulled him out. I didn't take any pictures, but I did take a picture of the stuck truck and my phone rebooted!! So I don't have any pictures of it. I'll take some pictures today of what it looks like. It was a war zone yesterday and just a mess. But we finally got it into shape. It looks decent. We spread 9 loads of fill and cut the new ditch. About to head back over to spread a bit more dirt. Will probably have some top soil coming next week hopefully before the rain to finish this job up. Yeah, he's gonna get a good deal on this total project and he knows it.
Around here $100/hr is a good price. Usually they give you a ridiculous price for small one day jobs. It is near impossible to find someone to do a smaller job. Getting them to actually show up is the challenge. I have entertained the thought of specializing in these small jobs as a side hustle or a retirement business. I would need a truck and a trailer.
Yeah, I don't know that I would advertise $100 an hour, but for this particular job I really didn't know if I wanted the job and so I priced it up there in case he said yes. I've also thought about running a social media ad for small little couple hour jobs for $75/hour, digging stumps, burying livestock, small clearing. I'd be super picky about what I get and they'd have to be within driving distance for me. I'd be picky. Staying out of easements and like Fred mentioned not digging along where someones's water, gas or power line is located. I figure if I'd get three jobs a year, I need to start thinking about insurance. Not sure if I'm ready for that, but my brother have discussed this as a retirement gig. Pick and choose what we want to fool with. A small dump truck and trailer would be a nice addition to a backhoe.
We finished it up today without getting top soil. I ran over the bill with the customer first thing this morning to let him know where we were going to be at the end of today. He didn't want to get anymore top soil so we raked out as much as we could. It could've used a few loads. I was at 9 hours on the backhoe, including travel time. I also bid the big Kubota and the little Kubota at $60 and $40/hour. The invoice was around $3k, but half that was fill, hay and seed. He said it is what it is and he was going to go over to the corner of the house and throw up now. He was hoot. Would love to work for people like him. My brother did take one picture Friday morning. I'll explain with some better before shots on what we're doing.
So this house was moved here. The guy we're working for did not move this house here. The lady that did, put it here and put it somewhat sideways between my brother's fence and this ditch. That's a whole 'nother story I won'tget into. Anyway, this guy bought it and had to do something about this ditch and get it away from the front porch because you couldn't even hardly drive a lawn mower between the ditch and the porch of the house. This picture was taken the day I surveyed it. Hurricane Zeta's memory was in the ditch the day we moved it. This was soft land and a load of chert in my front bucket was just about too much for even the ground beside the ditch. Somehow we made it through. I only have before and after shots. We did what we could given the wet mucky conditions. But it turned out decent. The customer didn't want it any wider than the upstream nor any deeper, so what you see is what he wanted. It was carrying water all the way down. We spread 50 lbs of rye on it and used 9 bales of hay which also had plenty of seed in it.
Front view from the road. He's got a lot more room beside the house now. We put as much top soil on it as we had, but it gonna have bare spots on the fill dirt, but he knows it. I'm curious what you guys would charge for this and what equipment would you use?
Nice work! I think if I was living in that house that ditch would become a french drain and my yard would be one parcel.
Thanks, yeah, that ditch kinda splits the parcel. He has a small bridge toward the back, but it's rotten. I think he's getting a quote on getting someone to build a new one. We had mentioned a big underground culvert, but I think that was out of the budget.
The dump truck driver said their outfit is developing the roads in a new subdivision and the developer has already sold 32 houses. People are buying the lots from out of state, sight unseen. It's crazy. How's the shop coming along? You'll be digging trenches in your sleep. Post up pictures when you do.
I"m looking to paint the boom on mine. I remember you said that you used a small roller to paint. So I'm thinking it was a 2 or 3" long foam roller?
Don't use the foam rollers. I used the little 4" minis. Something like this. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Purdy-Whit...en-Acrylic-Fiber-Paint-Roller-Cover/999972000
Great. Thanks for that. So I'm guessing you sprayed a coat or two of primer first, and then rolled on the finish coat? The front of my boom has had most of the paint knocked off it and I'm hoping to wire brush the surface rust and maybe sand the light scratches out first. Then primer and paint similar to what you did. I appreciate your tips.
No primer. Just a good wash down and sanded some of the bad spots where paint was missing. I was just going for "looks good from the road".
Well, it looks good and appears to be working good too. Nice job on the ditch moving project. The homeowner should be happy with the job you did.
It'll look great JL. Once you start on the boom you won't be able to stop. I'd recommend the JD construction yellow paint. The 310 did great this weekend. I was proud of it. I had one loose adapter hose fitting on the boom start dripping oil while I was digging the new ditch. Kinda scared me. But was an easy quick fix.
I drove by the ditch job today. It was exactly 3 weeks ago. Mild weather and a bit of rain has made the rye really take off. Happy Thanksgiving.
We picked up another job with the lady next door to the ditch job. She wanted a gravel pad behind her double-wide out the back door. The only backhoe work on this was removing the little stump pictured between the bucket and the steps. We estimated a half tri-axle load of gravel. When he delivered it, it didn't look like enough, but it turned out about right. We recommended some of those retaining wall blocks as a border around it to give it a cleaner look, but she mentioned she had some low profile block laying at the back of the property so we just used all she had. We laid down plastic underneath as a moisture and weed barrier. Still not sure what to charge for stuff like this. We had $325 in gravel plus couple of hours. We charged her $575 and she gave us $675. Turtle soup tonight!
I would mark up material 50%. This gives you 33 1/3 gross profit on materials. I would charge $100/hr. So for that job, $487.50 in materials and $200 labor.
I'm glad you brought up material markup. I was curious what others do. My brother and i debated about material markup. I had actually typed up an invoice on the ditch job with markup on dirt, hay, and seed. Not quite 50% but enough to cover the setup and handling of the material to make a little extra for time since we had time in procuring the materials. But my brother said if he were a customer he'd rather know exactly what the item cost and itemize out handling separate if not just include it in labor. He said when building his house the concrete guy charged a mint for his services and up charged on concrete too. He said he felt he got reemed twice. I don't know. I guess most people who are hiring out wouldn't know what materials cost. He said it wasn't wrong, he just would rather pay more for labor than for making someone think you're paying X amount when it was Y. I definitely think there needs to be markup. Especially when using my equipment, fuel and wear and tear to go get materials plus my time.
Any business that buys and sells materials marks them up. You don’t bring food to a restaurant and ask them to cook it.
That's a fair point. Like I said I'm not against a markup. I just know some contractors give you a receipt and tack the handling, calling, coordinating into the price of the job. I guess if your doing hourly it's harder to get your handling so your left with a markup. Which is a whole nother topic, hourly or by the job.
I wouldn't itemize everything on a customer invoice. They don't need that information unless you are doing it time and materials. I just had two chimneys repaired on my house. The bricklayer said upfront, time ($150 @hour) and materials. He had to rent a 50 foot lift ($400 @day) and $250 for the lowboy to move it, and pay a helper. I got an invoice with no line items. Just a total for $4900. I have no problem with his invoice. I have been around long enough to know that was a fair price. Your brother made a bad choice when he didn't get two or more bids for his concrete work. Never mind nit-picking an invoice after it was submitted for payment. It is all about total cost.
I would think starting out, time and material is probably the way to go until experience can allow for more accurate estimates for total cost quotes. I agree, for some jobs they don't need to know every little item. Maybe in some cases all materials can be combined. My wife and I just had some tile laid in our utility room. The installer gave a total cost estimate on the job based on the sq footage. I bought the tile and he bought everything else. I would've expected him to upcharge for the materials cause he went to get them, but he didn't. He just gave me a handful of receipts and noted their price on the billing invoice. I would've been happy to pay a markup and I did give him a little extra for that reason. It's interesting to hear what others do.
I hope that stump didnt overwork your hydraulics Boone!! LOL!! Looks nice though!
LOL! Pretty intimidating stump. Hydraulics almost got hot! I was expecting more of a fight from that little bugger but I got them in one swipe. Pick axe might have been just as fast. They were pretty rotten. Thanks Fred. She was happy with it, so I was too. I'm hoping to finish moving my pine tree clippings next week. Went around couple weeks ago for my 4 year trim. The backhoe beats the trailer cause I don't have to handle them twice.
Wanted to get some feedback from you guys, quickly if possible. We've started clearing a friend of ours property he just bought. We moved the tractor and bushhog in on Saturday and worked a few hours. This place was so thick couldn't walk through it without scratching your face with briars. We put a dent in it with the bushhog. I could see a skid steer and mini-ex with a fecon mulcher ideal for this job. But he asked us and we use what we got. Our original plan was to bring the 175C track loader out of retirement over to push out these thickets. But after working Saturday I'm now beginning to wonder if the backhoe could handle most of this. The guy wants a couple of side of the pond cleared off so the backhoe would be ideal for this. The other thickets and small pines I'm thinking the backhoe would have the pushing power to take most of these out. I could grub out what I can't push. The 175C would be much heavier and would be cake walk, but the ground disturbance would be more. Plus we (or friend) has to pay $400 to ship the loader over and back. If we use the backhoe, we could trailer it ourselves though a bit overweight. We could pay ourselves the shipping cost. I'm still learning what this backhoe can and cannot do and just looking for some reassurance that the backhoe can do the job. Here's a few before and after shots. Entrance from the road. Pond to the left. Samplings to the right. It's all about this size. He wants to keep the bigger stuff.
I do all kinds of stuff like that with my backhoe. Certainly not ideal in all circumstances. The $400 to move the track machine might cover the ground clearing difference of the machines.
Good to hear and good point. I also don't want to get near that pond with the track loader. Looks like the land has been dormant for 3 or 4 years. Amazing how out of control it can get.
Hey Boone, the track loader would be faster of course but you could also do it with the hoe. It would just take a little longer. I cleared some large trees with the hoe for my shop pad simply digging around the stumps enough to break the big roots free, then I used the bucket of the hoe to put pressure on the tree to get it to start to lean away from me and the tree would go over taking stump and all. Then I’d push the hole mess into a pile with the front bucket. It’s just a matter of how fast you want to go. Depending on what you expect to make on it you could include the $400 in the cost of the job??? Either way it could be done with both machines. One word of caution with the deer is in heavy brush, the hoe has no underbelly pan so your wiring harness is exposed. My hoes former owner warned me that he was clearing heavy brush and it somehow unplugged the break switch solenoid underneath. The machine wouldn’t move and he couldn’t figure it out for the longest time. Food for thought?? Good luck!
I will indeed have to be careful of the stuff that stands back up. That is one big disadvantage of the backhoe vs loader. Bushhogging Saturday, I had several partial saplings that stood back up on me as I reversed. Would have been nothing for those to rip a fuel line off or some wiring. May have for all I know. Yeah, he gave us a set dollar amount and said we'd reassess after reaching it. Well either do just enough, get fired, or have him wanting more. Yeah, I think we'll give it a go with da hoe. It's been a bit rainy these last few days and the loader doesn't like wet ground.
We put a good dent in it. The saplings were rubbery. We resorted to the bushog for a good bit.
Found a faulty valve stem on the front tire. Should've been metal to begin with.
This field looked like what you see on the left, which we still have to cut. We were pushing the tractor and bushog to its limits.
Looks good. Y'all have gotten a lot done. Now to fence it and put cows on it.
We got a good bit done. I think one more day and we'll mostly finish it out. Will be interesting to see what becomes of the land. The owner doesn't have a tractor. Has a battery powered chainsaw. I told him if he doesn't keep it cut it will obviously grow back up again.
Finished this up on Saturday. The only breakdown was the cheap rubber valve stem. It kept getting wetter and wetter. Glad to get out of there. Pond Before/After
Looks good. That guy needs to at least invest in a gas powered chainsaw now!!
Good to hear from you Fred. I think the last day we were there, he had a Husqvarna saw from his FIL. Will be anxious to hear if he makes a deal with the guy who is farming the back of the land. He wants to trade farming rights for twice a year bush-hogging. Hopefully, it'll work out for him.
I enjoyed watching the project, thank you for posting it. There is so much knowledge on this forum, especially when the professional wrenches chime in to help. it was mentioned about not raising the stabilizers, been there, done that with my JD500A. Moving around to dig a big stump, there is no reason to raise them all the way. But, one time I was done, and flying through the woods coming back, I had one catch a tree. A real wake up call, it ripped and bent the iron where it attaches to the tractor.
Welcome to the forums, Kenelz. Yeah, I'm constantly amazed at the vast array of knowledge on the forum and they're willingness to share and help out on some pretty intimidating equipment problems. Sure makes working on this stuff easier. I've been enjoying the machine. I'm like you, if moving around I don't raise the stabilizers all the way and sometimes forget they're low. I haven't hit anything, but can imagine that would swing the machine around...ouch. Got any pictures of your JD500A. That sounds like a big machine.
Here is a pic of when I was fixing the stabilizer.
That's a hoss, Kenelz. Looks like a clean machine. Thanks for the pic.
Starter Won't Engage Ever since I bought this 310, about 25% of the times I hit the start position on the key, all I hear is a click in the console and coming from the starter relay behind the steering wheel. This weekend I dug a 70ft trench and finished the job and was about to come back to the house and I hit the start position about 6 or 7 times and nothing but a click. Was wondering if it was going to start, but on about the eighth time, it engaged and cranked right up. So it's only getting worse. Figured it was time to address it so I'm not stuck out somewhere. Started troubleshooting. Removed the signal wire from the starter solenoid and jumped the 12V supply from the starter to the solenoid and the starter engages without any hesitation and tries to crank the engine. 10 out of 10 times. At this point I'm ruling out the solenoid or starter. I measure the voltage on the solenoid signal wire (removed from solenoid) when I turn to start and I get anywhere from 10.7 to 12.6 volts. About half the time it's below 12 volts. Not sure if anything below would be enough to engage the solenoid. I hear the starter relay clicking, but at this point I'm thinking it's either the starter relay or the switch. The switch is original far as I can tell and it's not as crisp as it used to be, but I do hear the relay click 100% of the time I try to start so maybe the switch is ok and the relay is not giving me full 12V? I'm planning to check out the relay tonight and make sure the connections are good. Anyway have any advice or stories on what is most common to fail?
When I have this problem, I can sometimes tap the starter with a small hammer and it will go back to working normally. It's like the starter motor needs rotating ever so slightly before it will come to life.
Hello Boone. I have been busily working on other fixes for a while and haven't used the hoe much on my end except to spread some gravel. I bet its your key switch. Its pretty simple to take out once you get that panel opened up on the side of the console. Can you put a jumper in there and bypass the start portion of the key switch. I bet you can . I haven't looked at it enough but I would try that route. I haven't looked at switch prices either, but that solenoid I replaced last year at this time was only like 3-40 bucks. Probably the cheapest time I ever will fix a machine like this but it worked!!
Thanks JL and Fred. Switch is around $25 Starter relay is around $55 Starter is around $180 for a cheap one I went out on my lunch break and found the starter relay which a small cylindrical relay under the hood above the ether canister. I took the plastic cover off and found rust on the terminal and nut. It looked a little corroded. I will take the leads off and clean it tonight. I'll bench test it too. Like I say, I hear this relay click 100% of the time even when it doesn't start so I know the start switch is energizing it, but it's not always sending a full 12V to the starter solenoid at least that's my theory so far. Fred, I seem to remember you replaced the accessory relay? I was wondering if the accessory relay had anything to do with the starting.
Yes what you found there is a good try! I would clean that first and see how things go after that. I did replace the accessory relay, but it didn't have any input to the starting circuit. My only issues at the time were all the accessories were acting wacko and only working part time on a good day (AC/wipers/radio etc), but mine always started without any issues. The starter key switch sounds pretty cheap to fix if its what I think it is (thats my bet anyway you will have to let me know if I guessed it correctly?) BTW on another topic The General Mowee is down right now. Im trouble shooting why the engine dies like its being strangled when I turn on the clutch to engage the blades. Blades turn free by hand, so I am guessing it has to do with the magnetic/electric clutch. Always something to fix around my place-Geeze!
Not the General Mowee! This is prime time for that thing. The grass is growing around here. Sounds you're on to the clutch as the culprit. Not much else it could be if your spindle bearings are good. Took the relay off tonight and cleaned up the posts and terminals. Applied 12V to the relay about 50 times. It clicked/energized 100% of the time, but about 5-10% of the time it didn't always give me continuity across the load leads. And sometimes even when it did close the circuit, there was about 20 Ohms resistance across the leads so maybe that would explain some of the voltage drop to the starter signal wire on the solenoid? Anyway, since I have everything off I went ahead and ordered a new OEM starter relay. We'll see. If that doesn't do, I'll spring for a shiny switch.
20 ohms of resistance? That will cause a pretty significant voltage drop under load.
This thing was all over the place. It was only a handful of times it acted really weird. But it would probably be worse with a load on it. Enough inconsistency for me to replace it.
Hopefully that solves the problem. Pretty cheap fix if so.
Got my fingers crossed JL.
New relay installed this weekend. I'm now getting a consistent 12.4V to the starter solenoid now. Seems to have fixed the click starting issue I had.
Nice Job! Does that sit on the left side right inside the access door? I guess I would have lost money if I bet you it was the ignition switch! wink wink! Hopefully this solves your problem.
You probably won't ever have to work on that solenoid again. Top notch!
Yes, here's a blown out picture of where it is. LOL, well, I almost replaced the switch anyway, but figured I'd just replace things one at a time. The switch is on the troubleshooting list on the sheet of paper you see under the relays in the pic above. My luck is the switch will be the next thing that goes... I hope so JL. Hopefully this little piece will last another 23 years.
Have a leak on my stick cylinder. Trying to mentally prepare myself for how big a job it's going to be to get the rod guide off the end of my stick cylinder. I've had good luck with an air chisel on the other cylinders , but the rings are much smaller on all the other cylinders. The hoe end seems to have a different design, more like an excavator style. It has a jam nut and then a big cap/rod guide what the manual calls it. The service manual shows a big frankenstein tool which fits in the grooves to torque the end off. Am I better off not to waste my time and have a shop twist this off? As far as I know, this one has not been off before. I've been soaking it with PB Blaster.
If it has never been off, it is Loctited and torqued to 1000 lbft.
Thanks MG, that probably answers my question. I'm pretty sure I could get the jam nut off, but my luck they wouldn't be able to use a tool on the big end after I was done chewing it up. In your estimation how many hours of labor if I took it to a dealer?
About 4 hrs.
Thanks MG. I will probably get them to break it loose. I've got to go to Warrior today to pick up a bore kit for my stabilizer and will ask them about busting the stick cylinder for me. I started overhauling my stabilizer cylinder last night. Whoever overhauled it last, sure loved some loctite.
I don't remember doing it on the gland end of a cylinder, but often times I've used a torch to cook off the locktite first. You can tell when its burning. I've had to do it several times to piston nuts for example. It would be fun to watch MG wrestle with one!
Sure would be fun! He could take a memorial day vacation to sunny Alabama I did end up using a propane torch on the pictured bolt. I used a 4 ft cheater and lowered my box blade down on the cheater bar. There was so much loctite I had to knock the bolt out of the piston. I ordered the wrong aftermarket bore kit and have to pick one up at Warrior today. On the stick cylinder, I reread the service manual and it says not to use a spanner on the rod guide only the jam nut. The jam nut is what's at 1000 ft/lbs. Hmmmm. I might have a go at that one.
The procedure in the manual says to use loctite. I guess whoever had that cylinder thought more is better .
Talked to a Cat mechanic at my son's athletic banquet last night and I asked him about it. He said if he has the kit in hand and the cylinder is in good shape otherwise, he will go ahead a do a field seal job on those cylinders. I asked about the locktite/1000 ft lbs and he said a big chain wrench and his 14K lb truck crane always breaks em free. He said he does not use heat on them.
Thanks for asking about that JL. I could buy a chain wrench for what they want to charge. I could also round up some mechanical muscle. I asked the parts guy at Warrior about them busting it loose and he said, "You know they're going to charge you $130 to do that?", something in his tone said you can do it. I also have two air chisels with blunt ends where I could hit from opposite sides. I might try that first. It's amazing what those things will move.
That should work.
I managed the courage to attempt the stick cylinder repack this weekend. I had planned to schedule this with my dad or brother to help me, but as I was getting the backhoe out of the barn I saw the air hose by the barn door and curiosity got the best of me. I'm just going to see if this big jam nut will move. So I backed it out and back down by the door. I drew a line on the barrel, nut and gland. Then I hit it with the air chisel and low and behold it moved a bit. I moved it a bit more and then hit the gland with the chisel and it moved the slightest bit. I thought - I'm half way there now. There was no way it was at 1000 lb-ft and I later discover this thing had been apart before. Not sure if the two dots are factory markings, but I'll use them to realign it when I assemble. Parked it under the shade tree. I wanted to get this thing as low as I could cause I knew it was going to be a bear to take out. I cribbed up the boom since I knew the boom cylinder would drift. Here's an expanded view.
I relieved the pressure on the backhoe with the wobble sticks after the machine was off. Unbolted the pin retainer and the knocked the pin out with a longer pin I have. It came out easy. I left hoses everything connected in case I needed to unbind the pin with the machine. Just make note of the shims and spacers on the inside and outside of the pin holes. I then proceeded to use the air chisel you'll see draped over the stick to back the jam nut off. Then used it to loosen the gland. Once the gland was moving I loosened the hydraulic lines. There was no pressure to speak off when I popped the lines off. Then was able to use this 48" pipe wrench. I picked this up from Northern Tool a few years ago.
My wife stuffed wood underneath the barrel while I picked up on it so that it would clear the end of the stick. I started noticing something odd. The rod eye would spin super freely. I told my wife, look how worn these seals are and how free this thing moves. Soon as the gland cleared the threads, the rod angle dropped to the bottom of the barrell which I thought was even more odd. I started pulling it all out and the piston nut was almost off. When I got it on my table, I counted how far it was from coming off and after 1.5 turns it fell off in my hand. Thankfully, it had not come off. I don't know how. It's kissed the end of the cylinder, but I don't see any grooves in the cylinder.
Another major part was done for me, but not the way I wanted it. The piston nut was off!! The threads look ok. The nut goes on well. I don't think any major damage was done. I'm sure going to torque it down the spec. 748 lb-ft + 1/6 of a turn and loctite it. Seals are from HW Parts Store
Unfortunately, when putting the last seal in - the wiper seal I slit it with a screw driver. I knew better. I typically don't use sharp metal tools on the new seals, but I didn't have a socket big enough with me to hammer the seal down and I got in a hurry. I had to call mother Deere this morning to order the lip seal. They said they could have it here by 8 am in the morning. One thing I love about Deere parts. Anyway, she sits awaiting assembly.
Glad it's all working out. It might have worked 20 years with a notched wiper, but why chance it. Better use locktite on that piston nut! Scary.
Me too. I'm feeling very fortunate and glad I didn't put this off any longer. I know, I just couldn't stomach knowing it would essentially have a hole in it, exposing it to the elements. I think the previous owner overhauled a couple of these backhoe cylinders years ago. I'm thinking I might take the pins out of the bucket and boom eyes and spin them around. That seems to be the easiest way to see if the nut has backed off.
Great job! I was looking to see your air tool on what you used, but Im not seeing it in your picture???? Did you get it all back together yet??
Hey Fred, I just got it back together last night. I recruited dad to help with hoisting it back in. Went to the dealer on Wed and picked up the new seal. Interesting difference. The JD wiper seal looks a bit more substantial than this one. I'm a little disappointed in HW's wiper seal on this particular seal. The other kits I have gotten from them have the lip on the back side. This one didn't. JD in blue and HW in white. The slit is at the 10:00 position. Can barely see it. We were fighting the rain getting it back together so I didn't snap too many pictures. The only notes I might make is don't forget the o-ring replacement on the barrel at the end of the threads. It's easy to miss. Also, we had to use a come-along to get it back in. It was tight. Slathering of grease helped though. I was liberal with the loctite and it's easily torqued to 1000 ft-lb. Got all the dots aligned on the gland and barrel. Got the jam nut tightened down good. We didn't finish till after 9pm. Sorry, I didn't take a good picture of my air gun. It's just the small one that Harbor Freight sells.
Wow! Check out that leverage! And Dad's not even building up a sweat it seems??. Good idea on the tracto to hold the pin area!! What did the air hammer chisle end looks like, -round or like a flat headed screwdriver? So would you recommend the Deer seal kit over the other? Did you fire it up yet and check it out?
LOL! Only a finger is needed at that distance! Yeah, luckily it just fits on that drawbar. Not sure where else I would've pinned it. I don't think my workbench would hold down that vice. I would definitely recommend the Deere wiper seal over what came in that kit. Knowing what I know now, I don't think I would buy the HW kit for the this particular 125 series cylinder. But looking back over my other HW kit pictures, they looked more like the Deere wiper seal. Not sure why it was different in this case. Oh yeah, cranked it up and just ran it up and down a few times to bleed the air out. No leaks. Here's a pic of the air gun and tip. It looks sharper than it is, but I might grind more off for the next one. You're up next!
MAN!! That is a great job! You know you just saved yourself $900-$1200 or more dollars by doing that yourself!! NOW you have inspired me to do mine. I will try your approach and start on the pin first to see how tight everything is. Its not going to happen for me for a while as I have too many things apart. I had to get a pin made for that wood splitter. The company so far has been good to deal with as they said they would reimburse me for the cost of the new pin being made because their attachment was made bigger than what I had for dimensions...I have an air hammer too but was curious what end you used. Thanks for the picture. Now next time I go to Northern, I have to invest in the Granddaddy sized pipe wrench a John Deere seal kit and away I go..... Thanks Boone!
I'll be sure to tell my wife on the money saved. I need all the help I can get there. LOL Go for it! It is a big job and several hours of labor especially if you've never done one. I split this up over two partial days, but it could be done in a day. Experts, half a day. I enjoy getting to take my time, inspect, clean the internals good, learn to see how it all works. Glad to hear the manufacturer is working with you on the splitter. Would love to see that in action. I'm still jealous of all the bells and whistles on your machine!
Does anyone have any experience with Camso tires? Specifically for the rear 19.5-24 BHL 532. I don't see much about them on the forum other than in the skidsteer section. I bought a set. Got a good local deal.
They are a Canadian company owned by Michelin. Hopefully you will be happy.
Yeah, they seem like a pretty big outfit especially in the rubber track market. I've not heard much about them, good or bad. Just curious. I'll post up some pictures of them when I get home.
Loading the old one's up.
Just rolled the news off the trailer. They had about 33 psi in them. I kept the old ones at about 20 psi. Will probably bleed a bit off of these.
Hey guys, I've been chasing a starting issue for awhile now. Thought I was on to it, but now I'm not sure where to go from here. The symptoms are the machine sits for a week or so and it cold starts right up, but then stumbles and dies within 2 to 3 seconds. It won't startup again, until I scratch my head and wait a bit. I haven't quite isolated what will cause it to start again. I usually remove the engine side cover and jumper a wire from the starter 12V to the fuel pump solenoid. I can hear the solenoid clicking. But today, even this didn't get it started. I had my multi-meter on the solenoid and it was over 12V and it still wouldn't crank. I waited a minute or two more and then it cranked?? I removed the jumper wire after it was running and it continued to run. It will run fine for hours after this happens. It will start fine for the rest of the day as well. But it's happening more and more on cold start. Ever since I've had the machine, 2+ years, the machine idles smooth as butter, but it seems at high throttle, it has always exhibited a slight miss and puffs a small amount of smoke, not much. It doesn't lose RPMs or power. It's never been such a problem that I've felt it needed attention. Not sure if this is related to the start issue? It's a Stanadyne RE502378 (JD part number). I think it's the standard DB2.
Sounds like it’s time for a new supply pump.?? A week s.p. will cause a miss at hi idle.. It’s pumping enough to keep the pump happy at low idle but when it’s in hi idle, it can’t keep up with the fuel demand. Just a thought.
Looks like the machine is changing its own shoes!
So are you thinking this is an electrical problem in that it wont crank the starter motor, or is it a fuel delivery problem where the starter cranks but the engine wont fire? PS I still haven't tackled my crowd cylinder leak yet....sigh too much going on...
That does make sense. I was thinking I might replace the existing supply pump on it, just to see if it cures the miss. I'm still collecting evidence on all this. It's only started doing this within the last month or so and I don't use it too often. I went out this afternoon to see if it would happen again and hoping to give you guys more info. It happened! 1) Put my multi-meter back on the fuel solenoid. Turn key on, 12V. Starts right up and stumbles to a stop in about 2 to 3 seconds. All the while the fuel solenoid has 12V and even increased to 13V once it started. 2) Waited a couple of minutes and did nothing. Turns over, but no start. 3) Wait another few minutes did nothing. Turns over, but no start. 4) I jumper the pump fuel shut-off solenoid to the battery 12V to make sure it's moving (clicking). It is. Turns over but no start. 5) I pull the throttle linkage a couple of times and jiggle the wiring harness which really only has the side oil pressure sending unit on it. 6) It STARTS!! Seems it's either the throttle linkage movement causing something in the pump to open (plunger maybe)? Or the oil pressure sending unit which seems unlikely. After it started, I jiggled and jiggled those wires and it never missed a beat. Could the fuel shutoff in the pump be opening and then closing? I videoed all of this so I could go back and make sure my steps were accurate. I can splice all the video and post it up if it would help.
Good to hear from you! Built in jacks and crane. Sure made it easy. Sorry, I probably confused things. It turns over fine every time. Got that fixed by replacing the starter relay back a page or so. But within the last month or so it's been starting but then will not restart. It turns over fine. I was thinking it was electrical at first, because the first time it happened, I checked voltage at the fuel pump shutoff solenoid and it didn't look like it was getting 12V. When I jumped over to the starter 12V supply it started. I think that may have been a bad ground on my multi-meter and luck that it started. That's what led me down the electrical path. I replaced the key switch and traced all the wires, even rewired the fuel shutoff wire straight off the fuse to eliminate the old wire. But this hasn't helped. It's doing the same thing, so I don't think it's electrical at this point. I'm supposed to help a friend dig a water line in a couple of weeks and hoping this thing is ready to go when I call on it. Regarding your cylinder leak, oil might be a penny cheaper now. I just replaced my boom cylinder hoses and orings. The hoses were cracking right in front of wobble sticks. I didn't want a surprise oil bath.
Got the video uploaded. Sorry, it's a bit long. To clarify, when I jumped over to the 12V off the starter, I was only doing it to exercise the solenoid to make sure it was moving. I didn't leave it on to start it. I did that yesterday and it didn't help. The harness I was jiggling only has the oil pressure sensor which just lights up the dash light. It doesn't turn the machine off as far as I can tell from the schematic. Like I said, the fuel solenoid source wire is brand new in it's own sheath. I'm 95% sure it was moving the throttle linkage that made it start. I'll try it again this week and see if I can get it to happen and see if stepping on the pedal will make a difference.
You mean you didn't read in the owners manual about the Deere anti-theft device???!!! Every time you have to start those SE's you have to jiggle the throttle linkage! No just kidding! That is an odd one? Seems to be a gremlin in the works? Let me think on this, but it appears you may have a short in the wiring somewhere? At least you are narrowing things down...process of elimination always is a good thing. Wonder if that wire to the pump is causing a short?-Just guessing on my part at this moment?
LOL, theft proof for millennials who've never driven a carbureted engine where you stomp the pedal before start. The wire to the pump is brand new. Couple of weeks ago, I inspected all the old wiring from the control panel down to the pump. It all looked good, but as added insurance while I had the floor pans out, I reran a new wire in a new sheath straight off the fuel pump fuse to the pump. When it happened again Saturday, I wired up my new wire so I know that's a clean wire. I even bought a new switch thinking maybe it was getting a weak 12V. Went by the green and yellow $tore this morning and bought a new transfer pump and fuel filter. Just want to eliminate everything up to the IP. That'll be the only thing left. I plan inspect the tank again to make sure I haven't stirred up something at the top of the tank. I've always run seafoam and stanadyne fuel treatment to help keep the IP clean. I'll check the old filter when I change it. Maybe tonight. It's doesn't really smoke at all, just on decel and only every so often when it sounds like it's missing a bit.
Went out tonight to wake the old girl up. Started right up and stumbled to a stop just like in the video. I took a screw driver handle and a tapped a bit on the IP. No start, got off and tapped some more a bit more aggressively and it started. I read in the service manual where hard or no starts could be a stuck metering valve. I did a bit more googling and searching on the forum and this seems like it could be the issue. It's never stalled on me after running except on first cold startup. YET. I'm afraid it might start. Either way, I replaced the fuel filter with a new JD filter I picked up this morning. Primed it with the old supply pump. Cranked up a bit hesitantly, but stayed running and smoothed out. Then replaced the supply pump. Cranked right up. Smoked a bit but ran good. I let it run 5 minutes or so to make sure all the air was out of the system. I don't think this will fix it, but at least those things are not the issue. I dumped the old filter out and pounded it on a blue paper towel and it had no debris I could see. I'll keep playing with it. If it is the metering valve would it be serviceable while on the machine? I googled and saw where it is and what it looks like. Would like to remove it and spin it around in some emery cloth with some cleaning solution.
No, don’t attempt to take it out.. You’ll be able to tell if it’s sticking by using your finger.. it should move very freely in its bore. If it’s sticking, u can free it up by using brake cleaner and your fingers..
Thanks, TPG. If it stops exhibits the problem, next step will be to take a look inside the top cover, test the solenoid and check to make sure the MV is opening freely when the pressure is off.
The other day, I started dismantling the top cover. Disconnected the return line. Took off the return adapter and blew through the glass check ball valve. Seemed to be working. Went ahead and blew through the return line. It was pressurizing the tank as I had my hand over the fill. All clear there. The top cover for this DB4429-5303 pump is on with 5 point security torx . Not the typical 6 point security you get at the hardware store. Everything on pause waiting on some Taiwan bits from Bezos. BTW, while awaiting bits, I assembled the lines back up and made sure it fired up in case the bits I ordered didn't work. Bits are in and they fit! Tonight, I didn't wiggle the throttle linkage or tap the pump. Started right up and didn't go dead on me like it has the last half dozen cold starts. It ran a little rough but it smoothed out. Turned it off and started disassembly. Got the cover off. The metering valve seem to move freely. Everything looked relatively clean. I'm assuming the metering tab pushed all the way toward the back of the pump is off. The solenoid releases it and allows it to come forward via spring pressure. I did see where the solenoid has a crack in it, but it was snapping like a turtle when I cycled it a few times. Don't think it's the problem, but a problem that probably needs addressing at some point? How severe is this? I did drain the top reservoir and sprayed a bit of brake cleaner on the moving parts. I put the cover back on, hopefully correct, I had to push the MV to the back to get the cover on. Hope that's right. I didn't tighten it back down in case you guys want me to look at something else. Here's a video of the movement of the MV. I was wondering what the function of the little folded wire was in second picture riding on the center shaft toward the back of the pump. It looks like at full stop it pushed the big cam thing over. Not sure the purpose of this.
I’m not sure what ur asking.?? The spring on the metering valve that loops over the center rod, just holds the mv down in its bore.. That stuff inside the pump is pretty minor.. and yet it will clog the checkball fitting.. R u starting the engine with the throttle at low idle.?? Don’t do that. BUMP THE THROTTLE OFF LOW IDLE.. Somewhere between 1/2 throttle to low idle.. Good luck
Thanks, was more curious about the wire than anything. At first look I thought it was just dangling. If it's spring pressure down that makes sense. I tried swabbing the black stuff out, but it's stuck to the pump. Even the seat of the MV looked a little junky, but it moved ok. At 4000 hours, I'm sure this could use a cleaning. Yes, have always started at low idle. Has always cranked right up. I can definitely bump the throttle off low idle from now on.
I put the pump back together. Have put about 25 digging hours on the machine in the last week. Still same hesitation on cold start-up, but it stays running if I set 1/3 throttle on startup - thanks pumpguysc for the common sense advice. Even the user's manual states this. Guess I was spoiled. I'm hopeful this is just a minor air leak on the inlet side. It runs fine once it coughs a bit after startup. I was stressed about this new issue since a year and half ago I had committed to helping a guy dig through a creek on his property to get a 2" waterline up to his barn/house site. Well, he calls within the last couple of weeks saying the creek is dry enough. His permit expires end of Nov. Was I ready? I'll post a few pictures on the waterline job.
This kinda all came about from word of mouth. My wife and I had a get-together, someone saw the backhoe in my barn, they told their in-laws who'd just bought several acres in southern Tennessee which they are slowly developing for a future house. They call and ask if I do work with my backhoe. I've done a couple of jobs a year since I"ve had this machine, but I don't advertise. If someone asks and it's something I can do I'll look at it and do it if I can. I've done neighborly deeds for free. But if it's multi hour and more than a mile away, I'll charge. We agreed on an $75/hour. The man told me he'd actually bought a Ditch Witch 3610 which has a 12" chain trencher and backhoe on it. When he's telling me this, I'm asking, why do you need me? He needs help through the creek bottom and on the hills which he knew had some rock in them. Not as excited when I hear rock. My first question was does the creek have a rock bottom? He said, it does have some rock, but maybe not where he's wanting to cross? Wasn't sure. I go look at it...this is the current vehicle/equipment crossing. His plan is to build a bridge closer to the waterline crossing. Ugh I look upstream. Ugggghhhh. Not looking good. I'm thinking, I don't think this is going to work. He needs someone with a hydraulic hammer.
But then we go down to where he's wanting to dig through. These pics were taken Dec of last year. Creek had a bit of water in it then. Ditch bank is about 5 ft high on the road side. Ok, maybe this is doable. Depends on what's under the gravel. He's asking me about reach and digging depth since we'll have to taper up on the bank. Yeah, no problem I can reach and dig deep as you need to go as long as we don't hit solid rock. Just depends on how heavy God's curse was on the ground here. I'll have to setup on both sides, but reach should be fine - I assure him. The finish line is beyond the top of the hill. His drive meanders up the hill while the trench will be direct route. It's a half mile total. The dark line on the hill is the proposed path he has mapped. So a year and half goes by...I get the call couple weeks ago and it's go time. Call my transport (my brother) and schedule time to make the 15 mile trip into the hills of southern Tennessee. This is off the old historical stage coach road from Huntsville to Nashville. Beautiful scenic place to work. One reason why I was totally interested in working up here. No traffic, no people. Well, except for the curious neighbor or two who wonders over to see how we're going to manage the creek.
Drop the machine off Wed at lunch across the creek, behind the tree line. Arrive early Thursday morning. Give a bit of throttle and Precious fires off and stays running. Good deal. I head down to where the skid steer is clearing on the bank. I'm mentally preparing myself for what I'm going to say if we hit solid rock. Meter base is off the road. Creek is in the tree line. I'm on the other side of the tree line at this point. He's used his skid steer brush hog to clear a bit of the vegetation. The trench will be along the dotted line. We talk over the game plan. I setup on the bank, extend out, let the teeth get a bite and fully expect to hear nails on a chalk board and smoke boiling off the teeth. I pull away gravel and dirt. I'm a little surprised. Another bite and another and no rock. Neither of us can believe it. He said that's deep enough. Music to my ears. The only rock worth mentioning was a table top sized rock. He drug it up the bank out of the way for me. lol I'm feeling a bit relieved at this point. I know I'm not out of the creek yet, but we're off to a good start.
I trench out about 20ft. Found a few more easter eggs. Go over to road side, knock over a tree or two he's cut, pull them away. We kept the tree roots in the bank for erosion control. He has me trench through the corn field to the meter base.
I dug almost to the meter and then backed to the meter pulling away dirt from it. When tying the two trenches together, I just setup at a 45 with the pivot over the trench and the outrigger on the other side of the trench. This left a little dirt in the trench, but seemed to work well. He began laying the pipe and sleeved it through the creek bed. He also put about 12 bags of sakrete on top of the sleeve in the creek. I didn't get a final picture. He backfilled all but the joints so he could pressure and leak test as he laid the pipe. He sent me over to the bottom of the hill to begin the ascent.
I start at the base of the hill and trench toward the ridge of rocks, which he warned me would be there. He'll use the Ditch Witch in the field. I trenched all afternoon. The driveway was the ending point for this day. Stopped here and went down to help him backfill the creek. Tomorrow will be the hill descent.
Wow.!!! What a kool “job”.. U should set that table top rock up by the creek for a “THINKIN” rock.. Those r the jobs u don’t mind doing.. Thanks for the picture...
It was all around a sweet gig. I was glad he asked me to help him. LOL, he's got plenty of thinkin rocks to pick from. I'm sure he would share them with aighead.
End of Day 1 he had Ditch Witched the trench to meet up with the creek and bottom of the hill. More pipe was ready to be laid on Day 2. I made it to the driveway on Day 1, but didn't cut through. He wanted to wait on cutting the driveway as access to their camper would be limited. So I started at the top of the hill on the plateau. Coming down the hill. I don't think my 2 wheel drive backhoe would've made it up this hill anyway. It was much better going down as I could just let the backhoe ease me down. It was a bit unnerving at first.
The view wasn't half bad. Too bad my back was to it.
And the trench keeps going. These are the last pictures though. Finished up the steep section down to the lower drive crossing in the last pictures. The picture below takes us back up to the top of the steep hill plateau. His driveway curves back up and around where we had to cross again where the skid steer is pictured. He wanted me cutting the driveway trenches about 36" so they were trying to get the pipe laid and the driveway open again. The Ditch Witch did most of the flat spots, but he started finding rock again and had me pick up here up to the barn. Keeps going... Finished up this run to the barn on Day 3. Lacked about 40 ft. We were at the gravel where the white van sits. He wanted to get pipe in the ground for all the open trench. With all that - I dug myself out of a job. He was done with me. I wouldn't mind another one of these jobs.
Hey Boone, Ive been tied up an off of the forum the past couple of months but jumped back on to see how you wound up with your starting issue and see you have dug a water line from Tennesse to New Mexico! -LOL! That looked like a job! How many feet/yards was the water line dig.? Also was your starting issue really only starting it on low idle and not 1/3 throttle up? I still start mine on low idle. I havent tacked the leaky cylinder yet but have finally got that log splitter re-engineered and beefed up--and it works. I will have to post a pic of that. Good luck!
LOL, you're missing out on the latest news! I was hoping the machine would behave on that job, I was a bit nervous on the starting issue not knowing what might manifest itself after hours of use, but it did great. The owner said it was a half mile of trench, but not sure if that was driveway or as the crow flies. It was a long way though. I'm just thankful we didn't hit bedrock or multi-ton boulders. I talked to the owner Wednesday night and he said he finished up the water all the way to the barn and has 42PSI of water pressure at the barn. I can't remember what he said he started with on the road. He was thrilled that he didn't have to add a booster. Yes, the issue still is that it will not start at idle - well it starts fine, it just want stay running after a sec or 2 when it has sat for a day. It's still a mystery. I thought it was electrical, thought it was the pump, and now I'm thinking it might be an air leak on the inlet side. Not sure if you've noticed, but the fuel line is a hydraulic line. $180 OEM online. Mine is a really corroded at the top of the tank, but it's not flaky. I also primed the pump yesterday listening for air, but all I could hear was fuel going back to the tank - I presume from pressure at the pump to return line. I'm not sure what I'll do at this point. Part of me wants to drop the tank and inspect the pickup tube and the tank and replace the inlet fuel line. I've thought about just running rubber fuel line with a hose clamp to see if it's the line. The other part of me just says to run it the way it is and fix it when it gets worse. Did you beef it up yourself or did you have the fabricator do this? I'd be interested to see it. Did you ever get your shop finished?
That is a long run to dig a trench and to run a water line. I hope the guy used at least 1inc or bigger pex? Glad you got the job done though. That is weird that precious has that problem on starting. I will keep thinking on it. You have tried all the logical steps I would have taken as well... That is strange.... I just posted my log splitter experience here on the forum. I wound up beefing it up all myself. I had an old plow laying around which was junk and a plasma cutter and a welder so I finally had the time to tackle it. I will keep you posted but it split just fine on the first few large rounds. I will give it a workout this winter though! Good to see you going still with this machine.
His Ditchwitch helped with probably 500 or more feet. He could've done a good bit more with it, but he just wasn't sure where the rocks were. Yes, he used 2" schedule 80. I forgot the brand, but it had the built-in gasket. Nice to see you splitting wood. Too bad you nearly had the rebuild the whole thing. Enjoyed seeing the pictures in your thread.
Haven't cranked this machine in about 3 weeks. Even with added throttle - this time, it failed to start. It finally started after about 20 sec off and on the starter. Between cranks, I checked the lift pump and it was pegged out with pressure. I could also hear fuel going to back into the tank from the return line. So I'm fairly confident the IP was getting fuel. To recap from the last page - new lift pump, new fuel filter. I cut the old one apart and found no hint of trash. Removed top of IP and checked the glass ball, blew compressed air thru it, it seem to be working. I blew air thru the return line - could hear bubbles in the fuel tank. Did find the shut-off solenoid housing was cracked, but seemed to be working. SO...I removed the injectors today. They were DIRTY. I'm planning to remove the IP pump and have it rebuilt. It has the tapered shaft with a woodroof key. The service manual on the engine says nothing about timing the engine or the pump on removal or install...only to ensure the timing mark is on the front plate and the pump flange. I scribed a second mark as insurance. Just wanted to confirm no timing or locking needed before I remove this Stanadyne DB4429-5303. Thanks. In case anyone references this in the future, no need to remove the exhaust or the air box.
I have the John Deere CTM331 technical manual in pdf. format. If it is the correct one for your fuel system I can make it available for you to download.
Not the correct manual for his needs Tinkerer.. but thank you for sharing.. That’s for the electronic version of the Stanadyne pump called a “DE” pump.. it’s the biggest POS since the 5.7L w a flex ring..
OOOPS ! I have the service manual for DB4 pump. But it doesn't have the timing info Boone needs.
The newer pumps are “air timed” and a scribe line put on the outside mounting flange(ear) on the pump hsg.. No more lines to line up behind the side window.. Kinda screwed if the gear gets outta place.!!
Wow!!!! Triple wow.
The Deere mechanic used a hand operated pump to fill the transaxles. That was a million times faster than the barrel and tubing I rigged up. Spending the $70 on a pump seemed like a good idea.
I did read about the air timing in the manual. I was just curious. As you know I leave pump repairs to the pros.
Thanks Tinkerer! That looks like the one for the electronic DE10 pump. I think those are in the G model. I do have the CTM207 Technical Manual for the 4.5 and 6.8 PowerTech. It describes both removal and installation for the DB4, but just doesn't have anything about timing other than the external marks on the plate and the flange. Therefore, I guess there's no setting engine to TDC and all that jazz. It can only go on one way.
Yeah, the DB4 doesn't have a window with the lines on it. I assume the gear can't come off as long as the front cover plate is on. I've ordered the JDG1560 drive gear puller. I'll be curious t to know how tight the pressed fit will be. EDIT: I take that back. I guess when I have the gear cover off it might fit through? The manual does say not to let the washer on the shaft fall down in the cover. That'd be a mess.
That's what I say when I see your machine LOL. Very nice machine, Emmett! As seldom as I would change out that axle fluid, the tube works pretty well. But a pump would sure be handy. My minivan transmission is sealed and I have to do the tube thing with it too.
Thanks for the good pictures and advice Boone. I think you are slowly finding the culprit. Sometimes you have to work through a couple of systems by process of elimination. I hope others can give you advice on the pump but those injectors look nasty. Anything you do there would be an improvement even if its not the root cause. How many hours are on your machine again?
Hey Fred. It only has about 4100 hours on it. I hope I'm narrowing in on the issue. Like you said, I'm glad I got the injectors out - they need a good cleaning. I'm mentally preparing myself that this might not fix the issue, but about the only other thing it could be is an air leak on the fuel line from the tank or the pickup tube, but I have a full tank in it, so it'd have to be at the top and I have no external fuel leaks.
Little update. I got the IP off earlier this week. I did pin the flywheel since loosening the nut (150 ft-lb) holding the IP was turning the engine. The JD1560 puller was worth the $45. The pump shot like a gun coming off the tapered shaft. Little heat on the gear may have helped. The IP gear was a bit wobbly after removal, so I could see how you could inadvertently jump a tooth. The pump does have a timing window on the other side. I didn't know this. Either way, pump and injectors are at a local shop getting inspected and tested. I've still been thinking about air intrusion due to the start and die symptom. While waiting, I took the supply line off the new transfer pump and put a clear hose on it, pulled fuel up, and pinched it off. I'm looking to eliminate the factory supply line. It's old, but it's a heavy duty hydraulic line. I'll let it sit this way for a week or so.
I like that puller.. I use it a lot..
It saved the day. When the pump broke free I figured either the puller broke, the gear broke or the pump came free. It scared me LOL. Thankfully it was the latter. I hope I don't regret not getting you to rebuild this pump. Thanks for the correspondence via email. There are two reputable shops close to where i work. The one I took it to, seemed to be an honest guy. Hope he finds a smoking gun. Before I get the pump back - if I don't find the fuel going down in the clear tube, I'm going to connect the supply line back to the transfer pump. Then put the clear hose on the pressure side of the transfer pump where it would go into the IP and see if there is any air getting in through the filter housing. Thoughts?
That’s where it should be if ur looking for a bleed back issue.. (On the pressure side going into the ip) I’ll be real curious as to what they charged u..
After 24 hours, no fuel movement on the low pressure supply side. I'll move it over to the pressure side tomorrow evening. I'll keep you posted on cost.
Boone, that is gonna be a sweet running tractor when you're done. @thepumpguysc *** Pump guy, thank you for sharing! I'm an expert in my field (heavy industrial vibration monitoring/analysis) and I share my knowledge with customers and anybody thats interested in learning. I believe in Karma and what goes around does come back. I have learned so much here and other forums from like minded people such as yourself. I tip my hat to you sir.
After 48 hours, no movement on the supply side. Last night I moved the tube over to the IP inlet side. Pumped fuel up to the mark by the hose clamp. It dropped over night. I left the tube open on this end since the steel line goes up. No drip or anything on the tube connection. My question is some flow back expected if there is nothing holding vacuum on the line? I plan to clamp it tonight to simulate the IP holding vacuum.
Is there any chance the check ball for the fuel return line on top of the pump could be a problem ?
Good question. I don't know if that ball is supposed to hold a perfect seal or not. I tend to remember, not very well, but a few pages back when I took the top cover off, I blew air through the check ball to make sure it was clean. I blew air back the other direction and want to say, I could feel air, but I had high PSI on the hose. Didn't know if that was supposed to be completely sealed or not.
No, they don’t seal tightly.
I would think it should seal tightly with no leakage. It may react differently with fuel pushing against it.
I hope so, JL. I have a spring project for myself to do and that helps with motivation to push on. I'm not going to worry too much about it...yet. I think all the internals of the pump probably help with a vacuum. BUT, get this - I went out this evening to do the clamp on the hose and FULLY expected the fuel to be gone at the rate it went down overnight. Guess where it was? Over the mark! Temperature is the only thing I can think to explain it. Either that or the mice in the barn are playing a joke on me I set the fuel last night, temps around 45. Checked it this early morning. Think it got down to freezing last night (the previous picture) and now tonight at 53 degrees. I had pretty constant temps on the 48 hour supply side test. I'm feeling better.
This morning temps at 55. Fuel holding at the same or just above what the picture shows. Exactly what I wanted to see.
I'm somewhat fascinated by this. Temps warmed up to 62 yesterday evening. This fuel is moving like mercury in a thermometer. Glad I didn't take my first night's discovery as a leak back. My conclusion is it's not leaking back on the supply side. It was humid here. The block was sweating with condensation. Talked to pump shop, they informed me that they were in the middle of rebuilding the injectors. He said they were all bad, except one. #1 - Popping off at 5000 PSI, freezing closed - whatever that means #2 - Popping off too soon and peeing fluid #3 - Popping off too soon and peeing fluid #4 - tested good, but suggested a rebuild while they had it and based on the others He said they were about to start on the pump. Will probably be next week before I get it back.
VERY Impressive work Boone! Great thread man!
Thanks Gasifier. I'm hoping this thread helps somebody. The experts give it the substance. I just post pictures. Congrats on your new JD backhoe. That thing looks sweet! Is it work ready?
Appears to be. Everything seems to work except heater fan. I’m hoping to install lower radiator hose heater tomorrow and maybe, if I get time, see if I can use her to pull a few downed trees out of some brush and trees and into an opening for firewood processing. We will see what time the heater gets into the NAPA store. I had to order it up and it said Tuesday delivery to store. Hoping it comes in the morning. The amount of work you have done to your machine is really awesome. You should be proud of turning that machine around and into a great workhorse!
You guys and your luxurious heated cabs. I can only dream. LOL Hope you get it working and toasty. I don't use mine too much in the winter. I try to crank it on warm days just to keep the seals oiled. I need to go check out your thread and have another look at your machine. It's fun to take something and make it nicer. Getting some useful service out of it is a bonus. I don't like looking at my spreadsheet now days. The expense of having one of these ain't cheap. But as long as she's useful to me, I can justify it.
Pump shop called this morning and it's all ready. He said overall the IP wasn't that bad. He said he replaced the internal transfer pump blades and liner. New bearings and other things he'd tell me about when I pick it up. He said he was surprised it ran based on the injectors. I posted about those above. He said it starts and runs great on the stand. He'll have all new grommets/olives for me on pickup. $800 on IP rebuild $287 on 4 injector rebuilds
Not a bad price on the pump “IF” they put in the updated part that takes the place of the flex ring..??
Thanks to your posts I had asked him about that rubber ring on the back of the retainer cage when I took it to him. He said my model pump had the updated sealed ring.
“IF” he told u that when you were dropping it off.. unfortunately u can’t tell WITHOUT tearing it down.. (strike 1) If it already had 1 in it, what’s the 800.00 price tag for.?? (strike 2) I could have saved u 150.00.!!!
Hmmmm, well now you've got me wondering. I even called him after your post #291 before the shop closed and he reminded me of when we had talked earlier that my newer model pump didn't have the old rubber ring. He knew exactly what I was talking about. I don't know. My pump is stamped on the tag with an RE prefix to the serial number. Would that mean it's a reman and he could tell by that or maybe the 310 SE application? I'm not going to ask him a third time about it. Either way, I just hope it starts and blows fairy dust out the exhaust when I get this thing back together.
Don’t ask him again.. just live with the fact that u thru away 150.00.. Happy tractoring..
And remember, that will probably be one of the cheapest “throw aways” of money you will have on a machine of that size. Have fun with that beauty!
Lol. Yup.. Wait till u hafta call for a service tech on-site and he has to come back because he brought the wrong interface and u get charged FOR THAT.. Then has to come back with the part to change out, that doesn’t fix anything & you get charged FOR THAT..
Oh, I couldn't afford this machine if I had to pay for truck rolls. Well, it won't be first or the last money I've wasted. Picked everything up this morning. He said the injectors were junk. They had to throw away one of them to the scrap pile. Now to schedule time to get it on. I'd love to have it back together by this weekend, but not sure that will happen. I also plan to check compression AFTER I get the pump on since I'll have the injectors out.
Do u have the adapter for the compression test.? If not, Harbor Freight sells a “master” injector adapter compression kit.. They also sell a smaller one strictly for glow plugs.. FYI.. u can’t use a gasoline compression tester.!! It only goes to 150-200psi and a healthy diesel compression is over 300psi.. If trying to use a gas tester, it’ll either “peg out” or blow up..& u don’t want either one..
The compression tester I have is from the 70's (borrowed from my Dad). It doesn't say it's for gas only, but it only goes up to 270 or 290 PSI if I remember right. Pretty sure it's for gas then. Thanks for telling me. Guess I won't use it. I see the kit from HF. Probably won't spring for the tester then. I really don't think it has bad compression. I was just going to do it since I had the injectors out.
You didn’t “waste” anything. I have owned quite a “few” loader backhoes. There have been times I’ve had to fix a few things. But nothing too major. I try to buy machines with low hours. Use them to get a LOT of work done on my property, and then sell them to try to get my money back. I can usually do that or come close. Did I really lose money if I sell for $1000 less than I paid for it? But I may have completed 100-300 hours of work with that machine by the time I sell it. How much would that have cost to pay a contractor to do? At $100/hour, for machine and operator, or more! I certainly could not afford afford it. And renting is the other option. No thanks. I’d rather have something here to use whenever I need it. Look at the work you have completed with it. And imagine what you will/can do in the future with it. You and I are getting a LOT of work done with these machines, learning, and have fun doing it! Your machine is, and is going to be in awesome mechanical and cosmetic condition. You could get your money back out of it, with a decent amount figured in for your labor hours, anytime.
Great points and I do figure in what I get done with the machine as part of my cost basis. I haven't posted half of what I've gotten done with it. It's a great tool to have around. I don't see myself ever parting with it anytime soon. If I needed to, I could get back what I have in it. There's a local auction that has 3 municipal dump trucks. I've thought of buying one and fixing it up and flipping it. But our HVAC unit just went out and that took about what I was willing to pay for one. Inflation is bright eyed here in 2023! Oh well.
Got the pump on Thursday evening and the injectors today. Everything went together without hiccup. Couple of the injectors I used the hand pump to fill the pump until I heard fuel leaking back into the tank. I had one return line leaking - just needed tightening. Bled it by leaving 1, 2, 3 fuel lines loose from the injectors. Started seeing fuel and tightened down fuel lines. After a few seconds on the starter, it started to hit and then popped off. She's a runner! That's the good news. The bad news is I can't get injector #2 to stop leaking. I took it back out and reseated and made sure everything was clean on the seat and the seal. Tightened it back together and same leak. It's not return line fuel, it's high pressure fuel spraying everywhere. I had my wife crank on the starter while I looked at the injector and it was coming from between the top of the spacer and the clamp. Where my thumb is pinched it where it seemed fuel was blowing out. There's an awful lot of pitting in this area. In fact, looks to be a hole, but hard to tell. Zoomed in on the pitted area. I'm going to take it back to the pump shop and see if he can double check it. I don't know that's it's leaking from this pitted area, but I clearly saw high pressure fuel coming out of this area and not from around the red seal at the head.
It happens.. we’re just human.. But some of us are more SUPER than others.. lol Good luck
Lol! Nicely played. Point taken.
I know it's aggravating, but you seem to be real close to having it all sorted out. Keep up the good work.
I'm getting there JL. I called the diesel shop this morning. He said, no problem he'll build another one and I can just make one trip when I bring him the old one. He said the ultra sonic cleaner can sometimes expose weak spots and they missed it. He apologized. Bit frustrating. But I'm wondering if this has been the issue all along. Maybe a weak spot allowing lesser dense air in, but not allowing denser fuel out. Maybe this injector has been loosing prime over a few days?? I took two of the other injectors out tonight and inspected them and they "looked" much better. Fingers crossed. Here's another shot of the bad one.
Not a criticism, but this is why I am a firm believer in new fuel injectors.
Wishing I had now. Really wishing I'd just left the IP alone and got new injectors. Then proceeded with the IP if there was still an issue. Are there decent one's out there? I figured you get cheap Chinese junk or you pay sky high for OEM.
I dunno if this one on eBay is decent. It is a new aftermarket with a one year warranty.
Little update. I'm still troubleshooting it. Still has the same start then die issue as before even with the new pump and injectors. Pump shop was dragging their feet on another rebuilt injector so I bought one from JD. The JD injector fixed spraying leaking injector. The old one definitely had a hole in it. Can't believe they didn't catch it. Makes me wonder about the others. I think a different guy worked on the pump, thankfully. Tractor was anxious to start even with two injector lines loosened. I got them all tightened down and it fired up easy. I understand it takes awhile to get the air out of the DB4 pumps. After about 10 minutes of running it was smooth. It ran like new above 1000 RPM. Sounded strong and smoother than it was before the rebuild. For that, I'm happy. However, below 1000 RPM it idled rough and shook and acted like was missing. Had a few fuel leaks around the IP and injectors, but got all those tightened up and IP and injectors are dry. I turned it off. Waited couple of minutes. Starts right back up and it immediately died. Same issue as before. Crank it for 20 sec and it fires back up. Run it for 5 minutes more. Turn it off. Waited couple of minutes. Starts right back up and immediately dies. It's losing prime so fast and it doesn't want to hit at all after it dies. The rough idle makes me think it's getting air in the system at low RPM. It maybe overcoming it at higher RPM. Just to recap for anyone reading this without the last few pages. I've replaced: transfer pump fuel filter now rebuilt IP now rebuilt injectors new fuel grommets/olives on return lines I started combing back over everything again looking for any sign of a leak. I noticed it had a drip of fuel on the drain of the new filter. The drain wasn't supper tight - that's on me. After tightening it ran better at idle and started up and ran longer before dying. But it's still dying. However, I think I'm on to it...maybe. When I removed the plastic locking ring around the filter, I noticed the big oring was torn and had a hole in it. I've ordered all new seals for the fuel filter assembly and I'm going to re-ring the whole thing - it has about 200 orings in it. Any other things to check? I'm all ears.
Take the return line off of the pump top cover and blow compressed air thru the line going back to the tank.. LOOSEN THE CAP BEFORE BLOWING IT..
Did u loosen the big cap on the advance after u started it.?? Air gets trapped in the advance and beats the piston to death.. U should have been instructed or a big red tag should have been a fixed to the pump..
Yup, I've done that. I can also hear fuel dripping back into the tank when priming with the manual pump.
I wish I'd sent this to you. I haven't been happy with my experience with this shop. No instructions other than to let it run awhile. He said air will be trapped in the bottom of the pump and it takes awhile to get it out.
Could you tee a pressure gauge in the line fuel line between the filters and the IP inlet ? Rubber lines and clamps could be used. Doing that will enable you to see what kind of pressure it has when the motor starts dying. If the pressure is constant you have an IP problem.
Just loosen the big cap a couple turns and let the fuel and bubbles drain for about 30 seconds.. Then tighten.
I found an OEM seal kit on ebay. It arrived yesterday. Picked up the rest from the Ag dealer yesterday. I'm planning to replace all these highlighted seals. The retainer ring (red arrow) is the one that was coming apart. My brother was telling me his Duramax was having the same start die issue and his filter assembly was leaking fuel. He rebuilt it and it fixed the problem. I'm hopeful this will fix it. Now to find the time to do it.
Got it cleaned up, resealed and back on the tractor. Weather was too bad to try and start it last night. Will wait for warmer weather. I'll bleed the advance too when I start it. Fingers crossed. Would recommend loosening all the inlet and outlet plugs before you get it off the tractor. I was afraid the vice would break the mounting flanges.
Tell us that cleared up the problem and its running like new?
Wish, I could JL. Still the same start and die issue. Long crank, finally started. Let run for at least 15 minutes at medium to high RPM. Turned it off, I could hear fuel running back into the tank. I left the cap loosened. Wait couple of minutes. Set idle up, restarts and stumbles to stop. I could hear fuel running back into the tank again - from the overflow I assume. It must be getting fuel pressure. Also, the way it was running at close to idle was surging again. It's starving for fuel or it's getting air in to prevent fuel pressure to injectors. Or what else? I did bleed the advance cap on the IP too for around 30 seconds. I'll probably drop the tank and inspect the pickup tube/sock and will likely replace the fuel line hose from the tank to the pump. After that I'll look into fuel pressure gauge and clear tubes to check for air bubbles.
On second thought as a quick test, I'm going to hook a hose up to the transfer pump and put it in my 5 gallon can and see if it still happens. This will remove the old fuel line, pickup, sock, and tank from the picture.
GREAT NEWS! Curiosity got the best of me. I just now went out the shop and I had a tube and clamp which fit perfectly on the transfer pump inlet. Swapped lines and put the clear tube down in the 5 gallon can. I had to use couple of wrenches as a brace to keep it straight. Got it cranked...poor starter Ran like NEW. Idled like NEW and best of all restarts at IDLE like it used to. So it's the fuel line back to tank or something in the tank. I'll probably go ahead and replace line and remove tank, clean and inspect. What a relief! I probably went at all this backwards, but at least I'll intimately know my fuel system when I'm done.
Well, glad that's figured out!!! On mine you have to drop the tank like 6" to pull that pickup tube. Tank may have rust causing these problems.
Me too! Good to know about the tube. I'll probably completely drop it and pressure wash it out and slosh with a chain. Several years ago my tractor had a stopped up fuel strainer in the tank. From previous owner's dirty fuel. The symptoms were a bit different. It would run for 15 minutes or so and then die and restart easy after a while. This 310 issue has consistently always ran once started and always started, but immediately dies. Only restarting with a hard start. It will be nice to find what's causing the issue? Why did you drop your tank?
Ended up not having to pull the tank. I tried to pull that tube with the tank in place and it was a no go. MG suggested dropping it about 6". In my case I was chasing a problem where my backhoe would stop running out of nowhere. Ended up finding a bad connection in the 12v+ wire going to the fuel shutoff solenoid on the injection pump. I reworked that connection and the problem hasn't returned.
Hope it all comes together quick for you @boone Keep us up to date.
Last night I drained the tank, disconnected everything and have only two remaining bolts that hold the tank on. Will remove Thursday night and pressure wash and clean. I lured Dad up to help me with pizza. He'll help me man handle this thing while we slosh a chain around. I removed the float assembly and took a sneak peek. Really didn't look as bad as I thought in the tank. Any recommendations on solvent or method to clean this sock?
Hmm, doesn't really look like the "smoking gun" so far.
Cleaned tank last night with a gallon of degreaser. Strapped it up on the loader and sloshed a chain around in it. Worked pretty well. It's flipped upside down with a space heater on it to dry it out good. Found a smoking gun, not sure if it's the smoking gun. When lifting the supply line off the union, there was a big chunk of plastic in the orifice. Maybe it came from the inside of the supply line? I'm not sure how it was running as well as it was with this obstruction. When I remove the fuel supply line, I'll look it over good. Another pic of the bit of hose or plastic. The supply line nut was rusted to the tube so I had to cut it. The union is rusted really really bad. I'm not sure why it's so bad. But the inside of it looks good. I'm going to reuse it since it's $60 to replace. I am going to get a new sock, new fuel supply line, new return line, new orings and new float gasket. Waiting on parts now.
I'm thinking that was the problem!
It might be, JL. I'm anxious to see if the supply line tells a story too. Will take it off Tuesday eve. I'm going to use the old one to help route the new one. Hope the sock is in by Tuesday too. If so, I'll be ready to go back together with it all.
My winter project is done. I've been battling this start die issue since before Oct of last year. After getting it back together and tightening the snot out of the supply line to pickup tube union, it is fixed. Dirty injectors, plastic found in the fuel union orifice. I'm sure the supply line was sucking air. Was leaking air all over with pressurized air. I took a little video of it posted below. Also, the union joint at the pickup tube could've also been leaking, but not sure. I know you have to get this super tight or it will leak air. Thanks everyone for letting me bounce things off of you guys. I went out today with temps in the 50s, week later from last start and it started right up and stayed running. It runs and idles great too.
So glad this has been all sorted out. Cheers to you for hanging in there and getting it done!
Me too, JL. Very glad the mystery is solved. I put it to work pushing up tree slash to burn piles. Glad to have it productive again.