Hello, I recently purchased a John Deere 329 D tracked skid steer with a engine “miss” hoping to fix and use. The guy I purchased from believed the issue to be a injector (not sure on his diagnostic process as no bolts on the engine appeared to be touched). After checking each electronic injection pump to be pumping fuel and performing a compression test it led me to believe an injector was the issue. So I pulled all injectors and ran through an ultra sonic cleaner to clean. Machine seemed to improve but honestly cant tell of its still missing. When I purchased I noticed it cranks for longer than I thought it should to start and sometimes won’t start at all until it sits for a moment or the battery charger is hooked up (random). Engine also seems to blow a decent amount of black smoke when reving not sure if that’s normal? Have a video but don’t believe I can attach it. Long story story asking for where to go from here to diagnose the long crank time and possible engine miss issue? Thanks Jake!
Famous D series. . . Hard start seems to be the norm. 1.some black smoke on Rev is normal, 2 one of the first things to check is fuel pressure, this can be done thru diag menu on dash. Should be 29 psi at when running.
Ok I will check the fuel pressure shortly and get back to you. I don’t remember seeing that on the menu but I may have missed it. Will check and get back to you. Thank you.
You will need to get into the diagnostic menu. I believe hold top and bottom button for 15 seconds or so.
Yep. Just checked it it has 29psi at idle.
Right on, that checks out. These issues have been discussed a few times here on HEF. If you haven't yet check out these threads, Hard starting 328D John Deere skid steer Hi guys, this is jack01. I have a 328D John Deere skid steer that is extremely hard to start. It will crank for at least 20-30 seconds at a time before it will start, and sometimes i have to hit it several times before it will go. I have taken it to the local dealer and they had no luck at... HeavyEquipmentForums 333D Skid Steer blowing black smoke I have a 2011 JD 333D. I bought it new and so far it’s been a decent machine, with just a few issues through the years. It had about 1700 hours. I mostly clear land with a grapple. Yesterday, under a load it starting chugging black smoke. It doesn’t have the power it should have either. I have... HeavyEquipmentForums
Will it read the pressure at cranking.?? Just wondering if you have a bleed back issue..??
I think it will. Or Jake can install a Guage. The fuel filter housings can leak, and bleed bac/ allow air in. Or could be a restriction in the tank dip tube, elbow, or inkie filter. That's what was with the last one we worked on. Had low pressure, changed the relief tee, no better. Ended up being a piece of crud stuck in the fuel drop tube elbow.
Yes I've read both of those discussions haha after running it some more this evening I am more concerned about the long crank time I don't believe it is missing anymore after listening to some others in videos online. It is completely random it will some times start right away others 10-15 seconds of cranking. and sometimes it will just crank with no smoke out the exhaust. I will check if it reads pressure at cranking. But pressure is spot on at 29 at idle
29 AFTER it starts.. if it’s bleeding back after sitting, it would show “0” at cranking…?? But it depends on WHERE the sensor is.
Yes that’s what I would think. I will check it while cranking in the AM. But yes it showed 29 after is started. Is it the sensor that is in the fuel filter housing?
Any codes either active or stored in the monitor? Post them if any. While in service mode, clear them and see what comes back, if any.
There are non active I will check the stored. What do you do to clear them?
There will be an option to clear them when in service mode.
Ok so back to the shop now. Machine cranked for probably 15 seconds before starting it is 40 degrees here in PA. Before even starting the machine the fuel pressure said 296psi (obviously would be at zero) not sure why it said that. But then when cranking the fuel pressure started at 7 psi and worked it’s way to 21 psi quickly until starting then to 29psi at idle. Is this all normal for these 5 cylinders? This is my first John Deere skid loader coming from a bobcat t190 that once glow plunged would start immediately haha.
Is there a hand primer anywhere in the system.?
Yes on the fuel filter housing
BEFORE the next cold start up, pump the hand primer 10-20x.. THEN START IT.. see if it fires right up..
Ok great idea. I’ll let it sit till later and let you know what it does.
machine started just fine twice today(within 5-10 seconds of cranking). Tried pumping the hand primer didn’t make a difference. Let it run for a good hour and half. Backed it into the shop. Then tried to start again with in 5 minutes of shutting down just cranks and cranks no smoke no fire. Very confused lol. Computer?
Nope
What would be thinking?
Did you happen to check fuel pressure while it won't start?
Yes 20-21psi
Also says 1.69V beside the pressure
let machine sit for 1 hour and fired back up within 10 seconds. Very confused?
And you will get even more confused. Those machines have a sh** load of hard starting issues with multiple possibilities, either individually or in combination with other issues, that can leave a seasoned technician crying in his boots . The 4024/5030 mechanical and electronic engines were manufacturers nightmare (in my opinion) and a mechanic's cash cow. That is why the very simple basics have to be eliminated first. Fuel delivery, fuel pressure, does it hold 4 psi of fuel pressure for a minimum of 15 minutes after shut down, crap floating around in the tank, collapsing/crack fuel lines, filter head issues, fuel pickup tube issues, engine cranking speed, grade of oil (those engines should only be using 0W-40 synthetic). Then we move on to more complicated like cam sensor issues (possibly related to cranking speed), leaking injectors that allow compression into the fuel, faulty injection pumps also allowing air into the fuel system. Plus quite a bit more if I put my mind to it. I have seen every one of the above cause hard starting on their own or in combination with another item.
thank you for the response. I have covered the majority of the basics you have listed there. I will say the engine does have 15w-40 in it. Which I will change to 0w-40 imediatly. You mentioned compression leaking into the fuel? I noticed the at hand primer was extremely hard to pump like there was compression in the filter head. And also that the gauge cluster said 296psi before even cranking?
Would that mean stuck injector?
The hard primer is not a result of compression. Either the system is primed or there is an issue with the primer. The gauge reading 296 psi with the key on engine off, if I recall, is normal. An anomaly with the software. If you had a stuck injector you would have a dead misfire..
ok yes I believe your correct with the 296 as that’s what the local Deere dealer said also. I don’t think I have a misfire. Ran the machine for 30 minutes tonight. Pulled it in the shop went to start again right away. Just cranks no smoke. Same as last night. I’ve checked all the basics you’ve listed and then some. Any advice what to check from here? Is it something electrical that could be heating up causing to not send fuel?
Fuel vent clear?
Yes
I believe the "cold start package" machines had 0w 40 on engine and hydraulics both. si ce the pumps are turning while cranking, the 0w helps cold starts. We've changed several machines to 0w 40 both engine and hydraulic, and installed an upgraded (Mahle) starter. Just the crank speed increase made a huge difference
Ok I have purchased the 0w-40 but haven’t changed it yet( I am going to change just doubting that will make a difference for starting when hot). It seems to crank fast enough I’d think but maybe not? Mine seems to be starting fine cold now. But won’t start at all hit without a shot of ether when hot. Has anyone seen the unit pump o rings fail? I’m just doubting that all five of my unit pumps would go bad at once.
If the O-ring's failed, you would fuel in the oil. If a unit pump wears enough (it only takes one), it can allow air entry into the fuel rail. Once there is air in the rail, it absorbs the pressure (like an accumulator) which hinders the ability to build enough pressure top open the injectors. I am not saying your issues are the unit pumps, I just think there needs to be more troubleshooting before pulling the trigger on expensive parts. I suggest placing a clear fuel line in the return circuit. Make sure the line fits well and has no air leaks. Loop the line vertically. Run the engine until hot. Monitor the fuel line. Does it have a lot of air. Does the air increase as it warms. After shutting down, does the fuel pull out of the line? When it does not want to start, is there a lot of air moving through at the first crank of the no start? The 0W-40 mentioned by ozark works well for the cold start issues, but you said it starts fine cold. So a hot engine leans more towards a fuel injection issue. If it was, you would have codes (unless the ECU is defective, which is not likely). Early in the process I would have plugged in Service Advisor and watched 3 readings on no start issues. Cam position readings, engine speed and fuel mode. Usually cam position codes would pop up when there is an issue, but not always. Fuel mode to see if it changes to start mode, and engine speed over 250 rpm. If the mode changes to start mode, cam readings are normal and you have no codes, then the issue is not electrical.
Hi, I know this is an old post but what do these engines sound like when turning over. My rpm while trying to start shows 190 and fuel pressure doesn’t change from 297psi. I am just starting to work on this machine. Thank you
Welcome to HEF X21 ! Please start your own thread with the complete machine serial number and a description of the exact complaint, what has been done to diagnose it so far, if this was an issue that started all of the sudden, or progressed over time. The more detail the better we can help.