Hello ...hope someone can help,I was running my 410 moving dirt had no troubles parked it and went to use it a week later to find my loader had very little to no power to lift the bucket and the the backhoe will move but not very fast ... steering is fine and the machine drives fine... turning the steering back and forth will help to make the bucket raise.hydraulic oil level is fine, about 6 months ago I replaced hydraulic oil and filters used jd hydraulic oil and cleaned the foot long screen...I opened the plug on the pressure control valve and checked the spring out it wasn’t broken... I bought gauges to test the hydraulic pump and on my outlet pressure I’m at about 1000 psi and my inlet pressure is 0 psi. I can not figure out how to raise it.anyone familiar with these machines or have any recommendations on what else it could be ? Thank you Chris
Welcome to HEF Jersey ! A straight 410? 410A, B, C? Post the machine serial number please.
The 410 had a radial 8 cylinder pump. The camshaft was in a pressurized chamber. Pump pressure holds the pistons at the top of their stroke overcoming the spring that would push them back to center. The term is out of stroke. They are supposed to stay at a pressure I Vaguely remember as 1400-2100. Volume should vary from 0 to 30? GPM. Mine had the symptom you describe. When I bought it with 2200 hours it had a new pump on it. It'd work fine for 1/2 hour, then fade out. The system is closed center. Like your house, a steady pressure is supplied to one side of any hydraulic valve after it passes through a steering priority valve. If I recall, the 6 section backhoe valve tees off ahead of the priority valve. You wouldn't steer while using the hoe. Mine proved to be the backhoe valve 2 or 3 sections had bores too large. This allowed so much oil to flow to the reservoir, it couldn't keep up once the oil warmed up, and thinned. I'd start with the pressure relief valve, maybe pump springs, or worn pistons, or cylinders. I searched at length for a mechanic able to diagnose. Nortrac Is John Deere owned, 60 miles from me. If it is painted yellow, other John Deere mechanics aren't allowed to work on it. Somebody suggested an infrared camera would tell me where oil was flowing that shouldn't be. Mine proved to be through part of the backhoe valve. Our volunteer fire company had one. Start the tractor cold, as it warms up look for warming where oil should not be flowing. I'd bet yours is a relief valve, or steering priority valve.
That is a very interesting technique for hydraulic diagnosis!! Thanks for sharing!
Hey thank you it’s a straight 410 either an 82 or 83. On the motor block I have type 4219dt03 serial 5782101 on the frame I have 410-d 373778t
Even when the machine heats up I’m s thanks for the reply.yours sounds a little different as mine no matter warm or cold it stays at the same psi ... would you still think it is the steering priority valve or a relief valve ?i have a 410 service Manual in the book it calls for 2200 psi coming out of the pump I’m at 1100 psi... even if is steering priority or relief valve is bad wouldn’t I still be getting the proper psi out of the pump ?the book may be wrong on that 2200psi because I’ve also read on here guys saying it should be 1700 and the break down in the book of my hydraulic pump isn’t 100 percent acuarate.what really gets me is that when I parked the machine it was fine ... the only thing was that when I did start it I let it warm up for 20 mins before getting in and realized I had no power to the loader so I check and the hydraulic oil was low idk if that could have anything to do with my issue ?
Shaft could break. Something catastrophic in the pump. Shaft coupling could slip, but if your pressure is low, when it wasn't last use, I'd check relief or priority valve. I'd suspect something is releasing pressure, it's going to the reservoir. I'm trying to remember......the 410 uses a common oil supply for hydraulics and transmission. A bit of debris in a valve? I no longer have the manuals. I'd like to see a hydraulic schematic.
Yes Common oil supply for hydraulics breaks and transmission
Gauge shows 0 psi there and top port 1100psi
Your hydraulic pump needs to see 155-165 psi at that port or your hydraulic pump won't put out. That is the charge pressure which comes from the transmission pump. What is your pressure at the transmission pressure test port shown below? That is under the control valve which is under your right foot floor board. You did say that you changed the transmission filter correct?
I did replace the filter ... the gauge set I have doesn’t fit the threads ... any recommendations on a gauge kit ?
if you have the gauges, just get the right adapter. Take the plug out and measure it, discounthydraulichose has a thread gauge id chart that's easy to figure out what you need.
Final got a test coupling checked it at that port and it looks like 50 psi or so and the pump about 1100 psi .... and yes I changed the hydraulic and transmission filter ... also I have been looking in to infrared cameras...
If you have 50 psi at plug #27 shown in post #13 then you have a transmission pump issue. First thing to check is the transmission pump suction screen.
Yes When I did the filters and oil I pulled the screen out ...it was surprisingly clean ... transmission pump issue ?even though the machine seems to drive fine ?this all has nothing to do with the low out put pressure coming from hydraulic pump being 1100 psi?
It has everything to do with the pump output pressure, the pump doesn't function well as a suction pump, so it won't flow much if it's not getting enough oil with enough pressure feeding it. I'd get a 200-300 PSI gauge and check that transmission pressure again. I don't know your gauges, but I wouldn't read any gauge I own that low on the scale. You don't need a camera to check temperatures, an infrared thermometer will work fine, just slower, I've bought good ones used off ebay for $10-20. I'm not sure what to think of your steering issue, that seems suspicious, but I don't know offhand, and don't have time to look into it.
Ok I’ll order another gauge ... if that gauge shows 50 psi what would be my next step
Like Delmer said, charge pressure (which comes from the transmission pump) has everything to do with your hydraulics. No charge, no hydraulics. Those radial piston pumps don't pull oil at all, so they need help. Check that your clutch is adjusted properly. I see from your posted pictures you have a manual. Adjust the clutch per section 50 page 10-6 first then section 50 page 20-8 second. Then post what the transmission pressure is after the adjustments (with your new gauge). If that does not bring your pressure up then the next thing I would check is your transmission filter relief valve. That is the large plug on the side of the case just above the transmission filter (see section 70, page 5-10, picture shows location).
So i did not adjust the clutch but I got a 300 psi gauge and it says I’m at 150 psi at the transmission....
i also checked the transmission filter relief valve and The spring was fine
Reverser pressure spec is 160 +/ 5. So 150 would be close enough. To lose that pressure between the trans pump and the hydraulic pump with the filter bypass being OK (you said spring was OK, does the spool move freely and not stuck?) then the next place to lose hyd pump charge pressure would be the cooler bypass valve or the gaskets behind the transmission control valve.
Yeah the spool moved no problem slid right out ....I’ll pull apart the control looks from the book the cooler bypass is also in here ... if I pull it a part I’ll see both the cooler bypass and seals ? Looks like the left side of the pic ?
So I pulled it apart today and the springs are fine ... unable to get number 36 on the chart out ... which gasket could be an issue ?
Is #36 stuck? If it is that could be your problem.
Yeah it’s not coming out... is there a trick to getting it out ?or should it just come out when I pull the spring ?
Try a small pair of needle nose pliers to grab it. if that does not work I would just remove the valve assembly completely.
So it’s been cold over here but I was able to work on the machine a little today and was able to pull out #36 It was not stuck ... I do have a leak on the low pressure line to oil cooling radiator... the line was rubbing on another metal line and caused a hole ... is it possible it’s sucking air ?
The cooler is supposed to have lube pressure in it (8 - 10 psi), not suction oil, but it is a good idea to eliminate leaks anyway.
So I finally figured out the issue ... I plugged the tee fitting off the hydraulic main line to the steering valve and the the rest of my hydraulics work as they should ... any recommendations on how to get to the valve easily and what needs to be done to it when I do get to it ... and thanks guys I really appreciate all the help till now
electric de-stroke valve stuck? it de-strokes the pump while cranking allowing the starter to spin the engine easier. just a random thought
I found the issue it’s the steering valve ... not really sure what goes bad inside them