I'm new at this. I'm helping out a group that has about 90 acres of mixed land (old clay brick quarry along river). Some of it is pretty steep, other parts are flat. It needs a fair amount of work. Parts tend to get pretty soupy when we get a lot of rain -- and the soil is mainly clay, so it gets slick as well, but some parts have a lot of busted brick etc. We would like to clear some trails, move some rocks, do general maintenance, move dirt (lot of erosion needs fixing) etc. I'm looking at a 1998 John Deere 455 G with only about 1,700 hours for about $23,000 and then also a 2004 Bobcat T250 for about the same $$$ with about 1,500 hours. I would appreciate any thoughts you might have. I'd rather not do a lot of maintenance (if I can avoid it). I imagine we will run the machine for a few hundred hours a year, as it would be mostly weekends. I was going to purchase the bobcat, when I started reading this forum. A lot of the commentators seem to like the steel track machines -- which is why I found the John Deere 455 G. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks. And I enjoy this forum.
I've done pretty much what you describe on 32 acres with an 03 455g, I've put about 240 hours in the last two years, cleared up a pretty bad creek bottom, put in a 1/2 acre pond, and knocked down plenty of dead trees, and some that were just in the way. I too considered a smaller skid steer type setup but you will appreciate what the extra weight will do. I've had one track adjuster break (think I bought it that way) done the fluids, and kept the loader linkage well greased. I'm about done with loader and nervous about the economy for selling it, but happy with the experience.
You will be much better off getting the 455. Like Wray said, the extra weight of the JD will serve you well for what you will be doing. The JD weighs almost twice what the bobcat does and you will appreciate the extra grunt. If you're working in rock and hard clay a set of rippers on the back of that JD will be a lifesaver. All the bobcat is really good for is moving material that is already loose, and clearing light brush. You can forget about doing any hard digging with the bobcat, especially in rock and hard clay.
repairs and replacement parts Your comments are very helpful. How about repairs and replacement parts? I understand that John Deere doesn't make these any more, an I hate to buy something that breaks and can't be fixed. also, is there any other track loaders in this size class that might be as good or better than JD 455G?
The G series JD's aren't that old. I think they were made up until 2000-2002 or somewhere around there. You won't have any problems finding parts if needed. I have a 1969 JD 450 track loader and still get parts for it without any problems. With only 1700 hours, that 455 should be in near new condition unless it was neglected. They are very reliable, and if this one is in good working condition and hasn't been neglected on maintenance or beat on, then it should give you lots of trouble free work. Another thing to mention is that the JD at 1700 hours, in general, given similar maintenance will GREATLY outlast the bobcat with 1500 hours. If you aren't familiar with heavy equipment, it would be a good idea to bring someone with you who is to look the machine over. At 1700 hours, depending on how it was used it could be showing a good bit of undercarriage wear. As far as other brands (Cat, Case, Dresser, Komatsu) I'm not too familiar with them, but they all make equipment that will serve you well for what you need as long as they are in good condition.
Working on clay, when it gets wet it's slick as snot, the rubber tracks on that Bobcat won't get traction worth a flip to push in those conditions. And working on busted bricks and rock, you'll tear the rubber tracks up. That 455G is a way better machine for this application.
You're right about the clay -- it is slick as grease when wet. Which bring up a safety issue: I noticed the t190 I operated last summer seemed tippy. We were trying to get some pretty big rocks out, and every time the T190 found a dip, it felt like it wanted to flip over. I am familiar with operating a tractor on hills etc, but the T190 was definitely much more tippy that the Ford 1920 tractor we run (great little tractor -- tough and just keeps going). Is the JD 455g better with stability/hills/etc?? This is important, as more than one person likely will operate this, and the tippiness can be an issue, especially as we want to clear some trails and some old forest roads that have gully-washed, and other fairly steep incline stuff. Basically, the old brick company just cut away about half the bluff, and left is pretty trashed -- about 40 years ago. Now its overgrown with timber etc, and needs some prettying up, and some serious errosion control, as gullys are forming pretty fast -- so stability is definitely important. What is your thought on how the jd 455g measures up in this area?
First of all, a T190 can't be compared to either a T250 or a 455G. I'm just saying, with the terrain and material you refer to, the T250 is no comparison to the 455G. Although skid steer machines are handy as a pocket on a shirt, and have the ability to adorn various attachments with ease, they can't do the serious dirt work that the 455G can. The Deere machine is rock solid, heavy duty, and has one of the best engines in the industry. As for stability, it will perform in terrain and on slopes much the same as any tractor machine, and will get better traction on the clay, and the steel tracks won't mind the brick rubble, stuff a skid steer won't be happy with.
I don't know how the 455 would compare to a T190 on slopes, but they are not going to be as stable as a dozer. The loader will be more top heavy. If you are very lucky, you could find a track loader with a wide track option but they are rare. What it really boils down to is that you can work the 455 on fairly steep slopes, but you will need to be very aware of your surroundings and the terrain you are running on. Here is the scenario that would be most dangerous on a steep slope: (other than driving off a cliff) If there is anything on the slope such as rocks or stumps then you will need to be very careful. If you are running the track loader sideways across the hill and happen to run the uphill track over the rock, stump, etc., it will pick the whole tractor off the ground. Once you feel the tractor going up in the air, stop immediately. If you keep going, that uphill track will climb up the rock, stump, etc, but the downhill track will be going up into the air too... with nothing under it. Once the center of gravity of the loader breaks over the rock or stump, that downhill track will be coming down fast, and the momentum will send the tractor on its side real fast. This pretty much applies to any track machine. So yes, you can run the loader on fairly steep slopes, but whoever is operating it must be very aware of what he's doing and needs to keep the work area clear of debris. Work slow, and systematically. It is NOT a good idea to let unexperienced operators work in these situations. Another thing to be careful of is if there are a lot of surface rocks on a slope, those steel tracks are going to slide on them like you're on an ice rink. If you're not careful you can be going for a ride. Always wear your seatbelt on steep slopes.
Oh, and one more thing when working a loader on steep slopes.....keep the bucket as low as you can.
Wide track option? Are the tracks actually set wider apart? This particular jd 455g has 20 inch pads, so the tracks are a bit wider than the spec 14 inch pads. That sould give it a bit more stability. However, in general I plan on using it up and down as much as possible, rather than across the slope. I'm not comfortable doing that, especially as I have virtually no experience. . I see those guys cutting the grass on steep embankments with tractors, and I cringe. But I know they have been doing it long enough to get a feel for it (hopefully). Thanks for the tip on the tracks going in the air when going over rocks and stumps. that is mighty useful information, sort of like let up on the brake when the car slides on ice. there are other tracked loaders available, including Cat, but I really liked the low hours on this one. I might look around a bit more, but it seems that steel tracks is the way to go.
Just a follow up. There is a 1994 Cat 939 (Not sure the hours -- but dealer says in very good condition) for a bit more in the same locality. How does the cat 939 stack up against the jd 455g?
The 455 would by far be my choice over any ctl.As for other machines in that category and that age about the only other one there is would be a 933c cat and they are a good loader,but i would not pay much more for one over a 455g.
For some reason the last 2 post's before mine did not show up until i posted my last one so now i will give some more free information.The 939 in a 1994 is 90 hp and that would be the same as a 555g jd. So about a ton more weight and 20 hp more than the 455,If the hours are right on the 455 i would rather have it than a 94 939 that was more money.
That 455 might be a wide track, or a LGP (Low Ground Pressure) model. I'm not positive, but I imagine the track frames would need to be a little wider to acommodate the wider pads. Those might be more common where you are, but out west they seem to be hard to find on loaders. I believe the Cat 939 is bigger than the 455G. I think the 939 would be more similar in size and horsepower to a JD 555G. I think the 455 would be more comparable to a Cat 931. Does the 455 or 939 have rippers or a 4 in 1 bucket?
No rigger or 4 in 1 -- just straight bucket. I don't know how many hours on the cat 939 00 not posted. I can call dealer Friday or Monday. denver m famrs - I'm curious. Why do you seem to prefer the jd 455 in this size range over the cats?
I don't prefer the jds in any size over the cats. But i would not pay more for a 933c or 939 rather than a 455g,the 455 and 555g jds in my opinion are about the only real good jd track loaders there are.I own and run cat loaders every day and think they are about the best you can buy in most models. I have owned a 1997 933c hystat and it was a very good machine it would be the most comparable to a 455g.If you want a little bigger machine and don't mind a little older a 943 cat would be a big step up from any front engine in my opinion.Another plus to the cats is the hystat over the power shift transmition i like them better and like working on them better.The problem with a 1994 939 is it was still a power shift i think about 97 was when they changed the 933 and 939 to hystat. A power shift would not break a deal if everything else was good but they are not cheap to fix not that any any of them are cheap to fix but the hystats seem to run longer,and are easy to learn to run if you are not use to running a machine like this i personaly would rather run a power shift but would rather own a hystat.
That is very helpful. There are several cat 943's in the same price range as the jd 455. There is a 1984 cat 943 with only 3,000 hours. It is a little farther away, so I really don't think I can actually go and inspect it -- and it will cost pretty good to transport (I imagine). However, the hours are very low for these machines -- some listings show 12,000 hours and say the machine runs strong. These cats are pretty amaziing -- and way better than a bobcat for the same money. What do you think about the 1984 cat 943 with 3,000? They are asking $22,500 -- which is right where the JD 455 is (new machine 1998, 1700 hours)?
Another question; Is a good undercarriage more important than low hours on engine? One 943 says "undercarraige 75% plus", another with very low hours (2,300) say "UC 50%". I know about machanics in general, but most of it is on cars and some on tractors -- all wheeled machines. I'll look through some other threads, as I'm sure someone has asked this before.
In my opinion the 1984 943 has more than 3.000 hours unless it has been in a strange uncomon situation and was just never used it could be posible but not likely.If they have some kind of records that can somehow show the hours to be right that that might not be to bad even with 50% uc.My main machine right now is a 1984 943 we bougt about 2 years ago it had almost new uc and under 500 hours on a new engine and had every hose on the whole machine replaced and we gave 22.000 but that is the very top end for a 943 in my opinion. I don't know alot about your area but there is probably a 943 or 953 close enough to you to be able to look at and you have to do that.Another thing and this is just another idea is sometimes you can find a 953 for the same money as a 943 now this used equipment vary's so it can be hard before seeing them to know what really is a good deal.On equipment as old as what any 943 will be atleast 20 years old i don't really trust hour meters so i just check the engine for blow by witch most 3204 cats have a little but not alot i check for bubbles in the radiator and look for an extra amount of smoke along with other obvious things you would check on any engine. Check the transmition by making sure it will spin the tracks when pushing into something solid.Look at the cylinders for oil pouring out damp is okay but heavy drips or worse is going to need some re packing.And if everything looks ok but the hour meter says 14.000 i figure the engine has been rebuilt or replaced sometime anyway but you never know for sure. So i would rather have good uc and what i think is a good engine and if the engine blows up i still have something worth fixing.
I ran/owned a deere 450c trackloader that I rescued from abandonment. It was a good loader, very strong for its size, I also run a 550g dozer and like that machine as well. I think your looking at an lgp 455 cause my 450 had 14" pads on it. I know a 450c dozer runs 16", so I'm going to comclude that the 455 your lookin at is a lgp. Do you know if your looking a direct drive, or a torque converter machine? I think a torque convertered machine is labaled a 455g tc, but not positive. I like a direct drive machine, but thats what i started with, and everyone has preferences.
I just came across a 1979 Cat 931 at our local Cat dealer here in Iowa. According to the advertisement, it has 3,500 hours. It is only $9,500, so it is really a lot cheaper than even the jd 455g or any other Cat I have seen. It is pretty small -- only 61 hp, but has the same weight as the jd 455g.It does not say what shape the under carriage is in. Also, the tracks are only 12 inches wise, and that is a bit narrower than the 20 inches on the jd 455. I don't want something that is too small -- although it seems that almost any of these metal track loaders are going to do better at what I am looking at than a ctl. How does the cat 931 stack up against the jd 455? (it is more than $12,000 cheaper, which is something). How is power on these machines? Is the JD better to operate than the older cat 931?
We have owned 2 931's a 79 and a 74 and i think they are a very good loader,i like them better than a 931b wich was the next newer model.It's going to be a little slower backing up because they only have 1 gear in reverse. but it will do alot of work and i would very highly recomend a 931.If the uc is better than half worn out and and the engine and transmition check out i would go for it and save the money.
Cat 931 with excavator I have come across a 1974 Cat 931 with excavator, says complete rebuild by Cat dealer in 2006, with excavator and 4 in 1 bucket. Only 81 hours since rebuild, and 90% uc. Dealer wants $18,500 plus about1,000 to ship. I have seen some 943 and953 in this range, and they are nice -- but might be over kill for our small property. We re only going to use on our 70-90 acres, and the backhoe setup should would be handy, as would the 4in1 bucket. Cost is about the same as the bobcat. Is the price way out of line? Link: http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?ohid=8782825 Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. thank you.
Update: also a 1986 JD 455E with excavator and new undercarriage. $21,5000. all other things being equal, any preference?
humm, the 455g has been the most attractive, in my opinion, its really low houred, and the backhoe attachment isnt something your going to use alot. or at least i never used mine in the three years i had it. But i never used my trackloader alot at all except for land clearing. I traded it for a ctl, and have used the ctl more in one year than i did the trackloader in three.
I have never liked the idea of a backhoe on a track loader and i don't really know if you would use it but for me it would allways be in the way.I don't think i would want 18.000 in a 74 931 but the 79 for 9.500 intrested me i think that could be a good deal. Other than that i still like the sound of the 455g better than either of the backhoe machines.Also if you are working on anything very steep you won't like having the backhoe on there.
jd 555 The jd 455 has been moved on/sold. Howver, I have an older 1983 jd 555 with pretty good under carriage and not a a lot of wear ( according to dealer) and no leaks, with 4in1 bucket and detachable backhoe (which we can use), all for $9,900 plus another $1,00 or so in shipping. The underdercarraige seems in better shape thean the cat 931, and I liked the set up. is the jd 555 comparable to the 455, only a small bit bigger?
The JD 555 will serve all your needs and that particular loader is simple and straight forward to make repairs on for the most part. You wont find many with the those options and that price range and in overall good condition as you describe.
The 555 should do you fine and you will like the 4 way bucket.The 555 of that year is 80 hp and a 455 would be 70 and i think the 555 is about a ton heavier.
I'm closer to getting the jd 555A. Dealer sales guy says he'll "put her through her paces" once we iron out the details, including sinning the tracks to check the clutch, etc. I do note that one hydraulic line looks like it leaks just a bit, and the OROP appears to have been welded about 1/2 way up the driver's side. I suppose the weld is no big deal if is done right, but I will be operating this machine on some hills. Should I be looking to hire a diesel mechanic to look at this, or do you think the deal will be okay. It is Mideast Equipment Supply. They seem to be pretty big, and have a load of stuff on Machinerytrader.com. Any thoughts appreciated.
Are their no professional excavators in your area or they too busy ? Oj