we are looking to purchase up to four new skid steers and have decided on the bobcat s850. The question I have is which engine is better/more reliable. If we buy them right now, they will have the kubota tierIII. If we wait until after the first of the year they will have the Doosan tier IV. The Doosan is suposed to be non-DPF, which I like, but have no experience with Doosan. Kubota is proven and has been a reliable workhorse in my experience. We would like to wait to purchase them until spring, but hesitate to do so without more knowledge about Doosan engines. To make a long story not so short, would we be better to bite the bullet right now, and get the Kubota, or wait and go with the new one? any help would be great.
doosan has been building engines for over 50 years..... of the 2 i'd pick the non DPF doosan. just because is non DPF. on the kubota engines if you ignore or override passive regen warnings the engine will "detune" itself by as much as 75% by that time theres nothing an owner or operator can do, except call out the dealer have have them do a parked/service regen. :drinkup :drinkup
One thing to keep in mind is that while Doosan has been making engines for a long time how many have been sold in the US, OEMs like Cat and Deere have been building engines for longer than Doosan? And, this Tier IV final requirement is new to everyone. The new Tier IV final Doosan engines in the S850 will also be a 3.4L engine versus the 3.8L Kubota. I have heard from current customers that the new 2.4L Doosans are burning more fuel than the 3.3L Kubotas were in the Tier IVi engines. This makes sense since you are trying to get the same hp out of a 36% smaller engine.
from what i've noticed and heard from customers, all the newer engines are using more fuel, this has been an ongoing trend, going back 6 or 7 years. engines with a DPF will use more fuel due to passive regen. :drinkup
I'd go with the Kubota. Doosan has been building engines for alot of years but not in the US. It will be interesting to see how their product support is going to hold up to all the engines going into the field. I'd be concerned with parts availability and service problem resolution.
actually the opposite is true right now... kubota cant/wont tell us anything, it's been a problem since doosan bought out bobcat..... i've seen zero problems with either engine, only issues with the comman rail kubotas have been operator caused (ignored/overridden) DPF warnings and derates. :drinkup :drinkup
You'll find that support from the dealer woll be more oriented towards to Doosan engine because it isn't a stopgap, like the Kubota is. The DPF's have to be cleaned every 3000 hours on the Kubota engines, whereas the Doosan engines have warranty for 3000 hours (at this moment). The Doosan will cause you much less trouble in the long run, most Bobcats will be using them, so parts will be more common.
When you say, "Kubota can't/won't tell us anything", is that in reference to engines in machines already in the field or what is coming in the future? Not sure how the Bobcat/Kubota contract was written way back when but many OEM's sign agreements to absolve the manufacturer of a particular part/component of any support responsibilities. That may be what is going on here, not sure but I've seen it before.
all new bobcats will have bobcat branded doosan built engines. the lack of "support" isnt at the dealer level, it's much farther up the food chain....neither the dealer or bobcat can get a straight answer :drinkup
the last of the kubota engines (as far as i know) will cease to be used by bobcat in '15, when emissions levels change once again. i have no idea what agreement bobcat had/has with kubota, but most tech support we got from kubota stopped when doosan came into the picture. :drinkup