Looking for some pointers.... I am told that I am wasting my time trying to teach people... thanks
I also have had a hard time teaching. I think the biggest thing they do is over working the blade control. I tell them that they have to be smooth, and not jerky. Also your speed is a big deal aswell. When fine grading, a high third gear is not the way! Like I tell all of them, it takes TIME .
I 'm trying to teach in a d4g cat... This is a real frustrating thing to teach. I asked some older guys and said that It cannot be taught??? That it comes with time. :Banghead
when I started on a dozer I was given a 30 minute lesson from an old dozer hand. The dozer was a d5g hystat, was like 6 mo old. He was in the seat and I fit into the cab somehow. He told me to angle the blade as hard right or left as I could cause that would reduce the washboarding while I was trying to get the hang of things. Then we made a mini swale and he showed me how you steer a cat with the blade. Then he told me, "what you feel in your butt has already happened, if you dont like it, back up and fix it." Then he let me go on my own ontop of a fill pile. I'd level out piles that the end dumps would haul at the end of the day after I finished the day on the pan. It was probably two weeks before I was able to grade the haul road and like the way it looked whn I was done. After he saw that I could leave things better than I found them, I was upgraded to a d7h and later k hightracks. I'm no expert with a cat, but thats how I learned
Teaching operators. Hi, Folks. Teaching operators is not a game for eveyone. You need to UNDERSTAND the machine that you are trying to teach people to operate, the understaning that comes from experience, a lot of it. THAT is just the beginning. Then you need a fair helping of patience, an understanding of different learning styles, good observational skills and good to excellent communication skills. You also need to be able to get the message across that operating is not just a physical skill but a mental skill too. IF you have all that and can get it across, there is a fair to middling chance that you might be able to tach some people to operate. You also need to understand though that there will always be a small percentage of people who are just not going to get it as long as their fundamental orifice points to the ground. One other thing that helps quite a lot when teaching others to operate a particular machine is being enthusiastic about operating that machine yourself, on the basis that your enthusiasm will be infectious. Just a few thoughts on this topic.
When I have shown potential employees how to operate wheel loaders over the years, I will show them the basic fundamentals of operating the machine then let them go shifting a pile of dirt on their own for a while just to get the feel of the machine. Occasionally I will check on them and maybe give them a few pointers. Over a period of time while they are working I will give them pointers where they maybe able to improve their efficiency. To me, the important thing is not to belittle potential operators and to explain the reasons why you are asking them to do something in a different way to what they consider is right. Some operators are naturals and some will never make an operator as long as they live, and it is not their fault that they do not have a natural apptitude for operating machinery. As the previous posts said, it takes time. We had an Irishman working for us for two years, he was a lovely bloke and it was worth haveing him around just for his sense of humour. He spent most of his time driving our loader feeding our crusher but he could never keep a level floor. We always reckoned he could dig a hole through a concrete slab. Rn'R.
I don't really think you "teach" a persons how to operate. They can only "learn" most of it for themselves....... on account I haven't seen any two seat dozers, excavators or loaders around lately 1. Familiarise them with the fundamentals of the machine and instill a bit of confidence in the equipment. Don't get hung up on what its good or bad at...that just installs "pre-conceptions" they don't need. Stick to the basics. They may not understand half of what you can tell them about the finer points, that comes later. 2. Set the Standard: People generally don't like to be "told" what to do. Lead by example, get in the machine and show them exactly how you want it done...show them the finished standard of what they have to acheive. 3. Practice: This where the real learning occurs. On occaision like RnR says, compliment the good, correct the not so good and make it so they can ask questions and you can provide the guidance. Get them to evaluate their own performance against the benchmark you set. Above all, try and let them just learn. 4. Confidence: A little but not too much, reassurance and reveal a few more tips and your experience as it goes along. Above all, the learning never stops. Set some boundarys or stages to work through.."Ok, you can cut and fill, later we will move onto loading trucks" or something like that. and by this stage you will be aware wether you are dealing with a budding operator or a moron. Be confident and calm in your dealings, nobody is going to respect an instructor who yells and screams. Showing your frustrations is not going to help.
Something that one of my instructors in college said to the class has stuck with me for all these years: "This is an institute of higher learning, not an institute of higher teaching. You are here to learn. I'm here to help you with that, but I'm not here to teach you." Squizzy, did you have the same guy?
1. Dont work the blade so much. This is a common mistake. I know when I was young, real young, I thought the blade wasnt touching the ground unless the dozer kneeled over and started stuffing the blade into the ground 2. Backblading is for finishing ONLY 3. Try to establish a point of reference in your work (ie, grade, pitch, etc.) 4. Spinning tracks cost money, they dont make money 5. There is a dire need to establish a "bubble" in the butt of an operator. Make sure they know how to feel the chassis and when a machine may "tip" or "crest" over a high point in the grade. 6. Last but not least, a lot and a lot of practice
So does everyone agree that it is less effort to learn to doze with the blade angled? I agree with the spinning of the tracks I have a good hoe operator but can use the dozer to save his life... Looks like a roll a coster ride. I am going to suggest to angle the blade and slow down a little but I need some more info????????????
Start the cut as smoothly as possible, if you lower the dozer to much at the start of the cut then you have a hole and when the tracks hit the hole the tractor will rock over digging another hole and so on. Smaller tractors with short tracks react to this sooner that larger tractors with longer tracks. A new operator has to learn to anticipate what the tractor will do, watching the nose is one way, as the nose comes up the dozer should be lowering, as the nose goes down the dozer should be raising. As in all earthwork developing an eye and a mental picture of what the work should look like is as important as machine skills. Good luck with a greeny on the dozer, I never put a new guy on one just for the reason of your post.
I agree with the above !!!!! The med size dozers for beginner is better then to small and to big.The longer track frame machine also is of help. I like to start someone on my pond jobs because of having a large area to work.So they can get the feel of the machine,without the worry of the mistakes they will be making at the start of learning to doze. Also usually have another experienced operator running a dozer next to them so they can see what the other guy is doing and how they themselves are trying to do it. Thats how they started me on a scraper.Follow the leader,maybe not all the time Always nice to be able to have the time and place to practice without the thought of what i'm i doing wrong.At least to start with. More things then just these,but it's a start.A persons got to start some where.Rome wasn't built in a day.Right! Good luck:usa
I think this is the hardest thing to do for a newbie, when you angle that blade all the way back you can'ts see the back of the blade on the side sucked up next to the tracks, so your guessing on the one side, plus if your doing heavy dozing the one side will load up and cause you to start turning in that direction. Start um out blade straight and going slow, plus if your teaching them on a new cat d4g or even a newer deere dozer and they can't get the feel after 1/2hr or even a day their not ment to be on a dozer.
The thing I remember most about learning a dozer is that sand or other soft free flowing material is a nightmare when learning. In my opinion a trainee needs a blade full of muck to play with. Trying to trim a few inches of soil with a D5 is a no no in my book. Get in to some serious muck and learn how to utilise the decel pedal, get the feel of the machine through the Butt, then graduate to running the muck out thinner and thinner. As others have said its a learning curve with pointers from the trainer rather than teaching. And practice, practice, practice, and still some wont get it :IMO To help cure the washboard effect take a couple of passes at 45 deg to the way you were pushing.
Anyone teach with one of these? http://www.powerdozer.com/
I do think at times an angled blade does greatly help reduce the washboard effect. I do agree with AtlasRob that a guy learning needs a lot of dirt to push around and not trying to fine grade while he is learning.
I allways thought dozer operators are born not taught. I show them the basics of the machine and how it works. Then I let them start on digging a hole about 15' wide and 75' long and then I leave them alone and they generaly teach themselves, after their neck snaps a few times they will either learn to keep it smooth or be sore for awhile. I think one of the worst things you can do is watch them while they are trying to learn, their frustration level begins to rise. You can not teach some one to fine grade until they get the bubble in the butt down. As constructo and others have said the longer the machine the better.
d6peg, I agree, born. I started when I was a small kid, watching others, and tonka toys. Finally got my break when I got to run a D155 Komatsu. I rode with the operator for a day, doing clearing. He got off for a break and I ran it a bit, he said you must have run one of these before. I said no this is the first time. I spent manny more days riding along with him and other operators. Spent a bunch of time on a case 350 in those days too. It kinda has to be in the blood so to say. I was taught by the best, he could get alot of work out of a 350 case dozer. I had a hard time going to the small dozer after running the 95,000 pound one. The small machine was very frustrating, especially when a dinky little stump would stop it dead in its tracks. But if you can learn to work a small machine and make it do what a big one does, just imagine what you can do with the big one. My body does not like small dozers, they can be very painful at times. LOL
does anyone have anymore tips?? Thanks
dont race, go slow, watch the bottom outside edges of the blade till you know the machine very well. It takes time, a lot of time. Good luck,
When working with someone on finish grading with the dozer, I always have them make a good pass down the center of the area being finished, no matter how long it takes, until you have a strip that is level and to the proper grade. Once that is done, you move off this strip to either side, leaving a portion of the blade over the finished area as a guage for where it should be. You just move outwards to either side using this technique. Sometimes I have started the center strip and then had them finish up by moving outwards from there. You can tell in less than an hour if they are going to "get it" or not. In general I find that there are 3 types of operators, those that get it almost immediately, those that get it but take a little time, and those that just aren't going to get it or are going to be terribly slow if and when they do. I think that learning by working on the surface where there is good visual of what is happening offers a quicker learning curve than just pushing a lot of dirt where you are far along a wrong path before you realize it. For instance, when I have taught someone to operate a backhoe or excavator, I will have them practice moving the bucket along the surface of the dirt without digging into it. To do this they have to learn how to operate multiple functions simultaneously. You can do this at very low throttle because there is no resistance and it gives an opportunity to learn the functions and how they operate together. By seeing just what is happening, they learn faster. If you just start out digging a hole or trench, you don't really learn what function is doing what as fast because you can't really "see" its effect. Hope this makes some sense.
Best way to learn, find an old timer dozer skinner that did logging roads in the pacific northwest, and ride with him for a week or so. If he's only operated in a flat land place then you may not learn much, maybe how to do flat real well. The guys that are good come from such jobs like the Alcan hiway, and the Alaska pipeline.
Yeah! Right. Hello, Dozer575. You are entitled to your opinions and I would defend your right to have them. That will not stop me poking a few holes in them. Firstly, in today's safety-oriented industrial climate, riding on machines as a passenger is actively discouraged unless there is a passenger seat provided - preferably WITH a certified seat belt. Caterpillar crawlers have not come equipped with a passenger seat as standard equipment since about the mid-to-late-1950's and I don't know of any others that are so equipped either. Secondly, your statement that the guys that are good come from jobs like the Alcan Highway and the Alaskan pipeline would seem to imply that jobs like that are the ONLY places from which good operators come. Such an implication would be a load of male bovine anal excresence. There are way more GOOD operators out there than have ever worked on jobs like those two. Thirdly, your implication that operators who have only worked flat land can't be any good on steep slopes is also just so much grass that has been re-constituted by a bull. Even on flat land, they still sometimes side-cut batters and other slope-related tasks. Ability on slopes is a combination of several things, among them an understanding of the machine and its abilities and limitations and also a certain amount of intestinal fortitude -shrinking violets need not apply. A fair helping of common sense would not go astray either. I would suggest that if you can't post reliable, CORRECT information, it might be better to not post at all. Just my 0.02.
I cant doze to save myself, but when I was a young plant mechanic I was let play on a D6 in a large flat quarry. After being shown how she worked and a brief rundown I just screwed around for a couple of hours getting the feel for it. Being allowed to do this without anyone watching and having no pressure let me learn a few things for myself. After that the operator pointed out where I was going wrong and then played a bit more. I reckon if you could do this first, before being taught correctly, would make it a little easier.
Not a bad way to go. Hi, Big Dazzler. Welkum to ther 4um. That is not a bad way to get started. I usually show a beginner what the various controls do and let them play with it for 10 - 15 minutes. I then get on it myself and have them think about what controls I am using while I am operating for about the same length of time, after which I give them another run. The idea behind the alternating in such short stretches is so that the 'newbie' doesn't go beyond the average person's approximately 20-minute attention span when learning. I alternate like this until the 'newbie' shows some signs of 'getting it', then I'll turn them loose on a bit of bulk pushing for a while and go have a coffee. When I return, I'll evaluate what they've done and how they're doing it, make any suggestions that I think are appropriate, demonstrate where necesary and leave them to it for a while again. I also give some broad outlines of how to go about various jobs, as and when I think they can handle it through the day. Ditto with safety issues. Seldom do I have to spend more than a day with them in this fashion. That is not to say that they are top-notch operators but at least you can give them a bulk pushing job and be better than half sure that they can do it. Experience and having access to somebody for advice will usually finish the job off, given time. It was a whole lot easier when dozer and grader seats were big enought for two butts and safety officers were a nuisance that nobody had dreamed up yet.
Gday all I have just joined this site and after a quick read it looks great. I learned on dozers at 8 years old on a 1952 D4 7U with the ag track setup(a real shocker) and was told it gets easier as the get bigger. I now own a D9L and couldnt agree more! However the same bloke that told me this also said something else - there are 3 types of people in this world 1st The naturals- they can get on anything and just master it instantly. 2nd- The ones who put everything into it and go OK. And the 3rd -who shouldnt ever be given the keys!!!
Deas you sure get way too excited. A flat lander can be a good operator, as far as certain facets of operation go. But when it comes to hanging on a slope or up on high rock he/she may find they have a fear of heights. I had to move an excavator off a high perch one time for a guy that was too chicken, because of a fear of heights. Working in the woods and especially in the woods on very steep ground is a whole different world than what a lifetime flat lander would ever experience. Its not a very safe place. In my neck of the woods there is also a very diverse type of ground conditions, and materials to work in. I remember one job we had a fella from down south that came to work at the outfit I was at, he commented on my stripping for a road that I was stripping way too much. I said no its probably not enough. Well in some areas it had to go another 3 feet down. Wow that would be expensive now with the cost of fuel and all the trucked in fill we had to put on that job. Anyway he was a very good operator as far as grading on a dozer and also using a grader. But he sure didn't know what he was looking at as far as the dirt in the good old NW. So there is a lot more to operating than just sitting on a machine and pulling the levers. I've worked with lots of those types. In my younger days starting out, I remember a guy the boss hired to operate the D7, it was so funny, he was trying to copy what I was doing. Though he wasn't really watching too close, because the machine was moving but the blade wasn't accomplishing much. He was real good at making the machine move around. If we were moving dirt maybe he could have done that, we were clearing and raking.
My points still apply Hello, Dozer575. I'm not getting excited. I'm disgusted. What's more, I doubt that I would be the only one on this forum to have that reaction to your earlier post and many others. My points all still apply. You may have seen some 'flat-landers' who can't handle slopes. I have seen many who can. I have seen a lot of operators who can adapt to whatever conditions are thrown at them and some who can only hadle certain types of work or conditions. Not everybody is good with machines in mud or slippery conditions. That doesn't make them any less capable in other situations. When you know their capabilities, you just don't send them where they aren't comfortable. You do a lot of ranting and raving about the steep and difficult conditions in the NW and how you handle them so well. You also spend a fair amount of bandwidth scorning those who can't handle them as well as you CLAIM to do. WHERE ARE YOUR PHOTOS??????????????????????? Bob, may I suggest again that if you can't post reliable AND correct information, preferably WITH photos, it would be better to not post at all.
:usa:drinkup:jerry Happy Fouth of July. I'm a greenie, and i can see both point from both of you......I live in WV, and we have slopes, woods, rocks, etc. I'm learning to over come the height issue....as on my D5g, when in woods on banked ground I don't feel near as uneasy, but on the same banked hillside, I feel like i'm on top of the world and top heavy. I have some friends, one who has 30 years in seat, and he amazes me coming off slope while cutting a road on the way down, another who is better at other things, tree clearing, etc. SO from a a newbie, both IMO you are both correct. and both of your posts continue to help myself and i'm sure others to gain if not the knowledge/skill, at least the confidence to try. :beerchugI feel the same way, I only wish i had another seatbelt as it would help to have the experience person in my ear.
Experience in your ear. Hi, Wvfarmervet. If you have somebody with the experience available, it is possible to have the experience in your ear even without their butt on the seat beside you. Voice-activated wireless headsets can be wonderful training aids. I learned to like them when doing lights and sound for amateur theatres and have used them a couple of times for training too. It's almost like the trainer having a remote control for the trainee. LOL. Happy 4th July to one and all across the puddle.
The last time I gave somebody some pointers in the art of bulldozing, I couldnt get her off of the machine for almost 4 hrs. Here's a video of this young operators first time on a Cat D8R. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLWP0qPjsXo Some of my pointers might be to: #1... Always wear your seat belt. #2... This isnt a race....so take your time. #3... Load the blade up. Once you have the dozer blade loaded up the tractor will be much easier to control. #4...After you make a pass, move over about 1/4 width of the dozer blade then set in. Use your previous pass to carry your grade. At the end of your push, back up, move over 1/4 width then do it again. #5... Your ride will be as smooth as you make it. In rock, clay,in any kind of material..it makes no difference. When making a push and the machine dives or climbs up over something, stop. Back up and fill or cut out whatever it is that made your neck jerk. Nothing worse than backing up over a pile of poop you left because you were in too big of a hurry to carry your grade. Doze smooth...back up smooth. Doze rough....sore back.
you kinda read my mind, i thought about it, but i was curious if you'd still be able to hear over engine. it would be great to be able to have someone tell you when to adjust blade, etc, especially when finishing, etc. around my parts, some of those would be expensive, especially voice activated ones. wallyworld is all we have just bout.
Getting the right gear. Hi, Wmfarmervet. I was lucky the couple of times I have used them for training as the machines were modern ones with better sound suppression in the cabs and mufflers. To use them with something like an earlier open cab dozer or scraper where there is a bit more noise, you might need to look at something that was more like an earmuff style, aircraft type or maybe sound recording studio supplies. Some of the mail order places might be able to help or check out E-bay. I wasn't using them so much to tell the trainee when to raise or lower the blade as to give them a clue or two about what to do next to keep the job moving efficiently or how to avoid a problem or work around one. I find it's best to let the trainee figure out when to do the things that eventually become automatic 'cos they become automatic quicker that way. It also allows the trainee to ASK when they have a query or some doubts. Stay safe in those hills, Buddy.
Deas is at 1000 posts :drinkup Congrats man on another fine accomplishment :notworthy
Hadn't even looked. Hi, RolloverPete. Hey, I hadn't even looked. Thanks for the heads-up and the congratulations. Or does that mean that I 'talk' too much and oughta keep a leg-rope on my fingers? LOL. You also posted some good points for learner operators above. Good stuff. I hope Lindsay enjoyed her leave - and that you did too.
Ask some of the people I do business with, they always seem to know how to operate a dozer. At least they try to tell me how.
Armchair experts Hi, D6peg. So you've had the illuminating experience of meeting an armchair expert or two as well? You'll find them everywhere, in all walks of life and in all occupations and industries. One tiny minor detail does still puzzle me about them though. If they are all so knowledgeable about their various subjects, how come they aren't DOING the job? Is it 'cos they've reached 'soupervisor' status and aren't allowed to get their hands dirty any more?
How did you get ahead of me so quickly
I think its way easier to learn backfilling then it is to cut . I can grade awesome when I am dumped a load of 3/4" crusher run but if I have to cut a road to subgrade it looks like a bunch of speed bumps especially if the ground is rocky. I only have 250 hrs expirence on a cat D5G.
I'm getting some seat time on dozers this year now and then. I find that most of my 'frustration' is from being used to a 2 way backfill blade on my mini ex, and now I can swivel 6 ways!! AS time goes on though, I keep getting more and more 'feel'. I also don't feel like I'm all thumbs near as much now. Last week we had a bunch of loads of 'fill' dumped where the dozer was located, it was mixed dirt with chunks of concrete and rock mixed in. With an excavator, I know I could sort it easily and quickly, but only had the dozer. I know it took me longer to do it then a more experienced operator, but chasing 'lumps' around on top of a contoured surface is also a good way to learn. (Similar to the idea of moving an excavator bucket along the top of the surface without touching.)
How did I get ahead of you so quickly?????????????? Hi, Grader4me. DamnedifIknow. And I had 2 weeks on your side of the Pacific puddle almost incommunicado due to most of your 'net cafes having gone wi-fi - bring your own laptop. Maybe you'll just have to polish your butt sitting in your PC a bit more and wear your fingers to the bone typing. LOL. Keep working at it, Bro.
Deas, If you cut their thumb off so they couldnt motion you to raise up the blade or lower the blade, that might be the answer. I had a guy one time walk along side of me motioning up and down till I finally had enough and then I got off the machine and told him since he knew how to do it, to have at it. The first thing he said is that he didnt know how to run a dozer. LOL
You are all right.... I say this because there in not just one way of teaching! When running a finish or sub grade, there is not much room for rookie mistakes! A good teacher will have a passion for the machine that he/she is teaching. They will know what is needed and as a good ground man, be able to communicate this to the operator! The teacher will have the patience of a Saint. The hardest thing in the world to teach is FEEL. The feel from the machine when you got it right on the money is inturped in many ways from the sound of the engine to the whine of the transmission, to the feel in the seat of the pants, or just the look of the furrows from the blade! If a teacher can teach "FEEL" this person is worth their weight in fuel! (LOL)
Remote operating and teaching. Hi, D6peg. I once worked with a bloke who got very tired of a certain foreman walking alongside the left corner of the blade signalling, "Up, up, up, down, DOWN, up, sideways, backwards, etc., etc.." This operator slammed the blade on the ground, knocked the throttle down to idle, locked the powershift in neutral, leaped off the machine, raced forward and started kicking the daylights out of the corner of the blade. As he was kicking the blade, he was yelling expletives at it and asking, "Why can't you do what the man is telling you?" The foreman watched this performance, shook his head in wonderment and walked away - which would seem to indicate that he had no need to be there in the first place. You might like to try that one on some of your customers sometimes. Hi, Rino. It is a very rare student to whom you can 'teach' feel for a machine. You can tell them the things that contribute towards feel for a particular machine and encourage them to look for those things as they are working but, when all is said and done, it still comes down to their own awareness of what they are doing and what the machine is doing as a result of what they are doing. Along with that, there needs to be an awareness of the attitude of all parts of the machine in relation to the required end result. Teaching will never be easy and there will always be some who catch on quicker than others and some who never really do. Even these latter ones can often be turned into reasonable production operators but will seldom make really good production operators or finish operators. C'est la vie.
i started out on a d6d ripping rabbit warrens in farm paddocks bout 6 yrs ago and found it the best way for me. you got to know the machine and the controls before you had to learn to blade off. by the time i came to use the blade i was confident with stearing and changing gears. i done the same thing with operators who ive taught and will continue to do so as i find it very good. and i hate arm wavers with a passion but we wont go down that path.
Remote operating and teaching. Deas Plant, 1,006 posts...:yup... If you keep making them like the above, and I'm still around, I'll still be reading them when you get to 2,000...:thumbsup I've always liked some humor in the posts on this forum, and yours are right there at the top of the list. Thank you. 'course... on very rare ocasions... you might wake up a little............ grouchy...:lmao.... OCR
You spend too much time leaning on your virtual shovel:cool2
Lol..That must be why. How do you think up this stuff? A big pet peeve of mine is when the Supervisor decides to walk along side of you with the thumb going up & down. You guys are talking dozers but it's the same deal with a grader. They know better than to do it with me as I just tell them to get the heck out of my way, but they do it to some of the other guys. The worst that I seen and this was years ago..Our crew was helping out in another division. Their grader operator was leveling asphalt on each side of a railway crossing, and to get the operators attention the Supervisor would throw rocks at the cab. If I had been the operator I would have jumped out and choked his chicken. Operator never said a word
I thoroughly adhere to the "start level, work level, finish level" principal. Keep your work area level and clean at all times and you will end up with a better job, a safer job and a more comfortable job. Which brings me to my current failing as an instructor . My nephew joined us about 18 months ago. He has turned into a fine excavator operator. He uses his head to try and think the task through and keep a site organised....a good thing because we are often short on space. I have confiedence to leave him unsupervised for most tasks. Put him in a loader or skid steer and its a different story. He can get the job done for sure....but he just can't seem to get the feel of where the bucket is at....almost always searching for the correct cutting angle but just not able to hold it:Banghead. No point waving my hands at him..he knows what he has to do....he just hasn't got the feel....yet???...maybe he never will. I now,can only give encouragement.
Wake up Grouchy????????????? Hi, OCR. Naw. Mostly I let her sleep. It's more peaceful that way. Thank you for your kind comments about my posts. I try to be serious but I have a very short attention span and those stories just keep sneakin' in.
Again I bow to you being right! If you get a numb person behind the contols of ANY machine even their very own car, all you'll ever have is a lever mover, or steering wheel holder! Maybe they should be taught on a machine where feel is the only way to operate like cable lift? Who knows!
Learning How To Doze? Hi, Folks. This is a very complex subject. How-wevver, right now I am going to try to simplify it a little. The learn how to doze, it helps if you understand the difference between dozing and SLEEPING. WOT? OH! We're not talking about that kind of dozing, HUH! Silly me. Just 'cos I'm good at that kind of dozing doesn't mean everybody else wants to be, huh? For those who have difficulty with trimming, as Squishy, errrrrrr, oops, Squizzy, said above, "Start level, work level, finish level." To translate into 'dozereze', during your learning process at least, when you are backing up to start your next trimming pass, back up about a dozer length beyond where you want to start cutting, lowering your blade almost to ground level as you reverse. Then start travelling forward, lowering the blade that last little bit as you go. This gives you the 'feel' of the ground before you actually start cutting. Start your cut gently so that the load doesn't suddenly drag the front of the tractor down and adjust your blade gently as the load comes on to it to compensate for the slight lowering that may result. It helps to have a picture in your mind of what parts of the back the blade you can see when the blade is on the ground on LEVEL ground and try to keep the blade at that level as you go, +/- the small adjustments needed to keep it on grade. If you get a 'washboard', don't waste your time trying to cut it out on that same pass line. Move over half a blade width and cut half the washboard off with the other half of the blade in fresh ground. Or alternatively, cut across the washboard pass on the diagonal to take out the wrinkles and give you a level place to start from, then start again cutting in the direction that you need to move the trimmed material. Hope this helps.
On being numb. Hi, Rino. AMEN. (Is that my shortest ever post?)
I understand exactly what you mean. You have additional options that you dont require while learning. See following The seat of your pants. If you can get a learner to understand that, you have an operator in the making. The problem greywynd is experiencing is the option to alter the tilt of the blade which takes away the feel through the seat of being in the same plane as the blade. ( no not that sort of plane :Banghead) I know the difference an oscillating bucket can make on an excavator, your eyes have to learn a level that normally your butt would tell you. When learning you need to understand what you butt is telling you. Some times it OOOoooops too far Further to somebody elses comments on ripping rabbit burrows, I was put on a D6 tracking batters to learn how the machine would behave. I was told to fetch off any big rocks and try and stay out of the V ditch at the bottom Once you have an idea of how to position a machine it makes the rest a lot easier. :IMO
I hate that washboard effect.... LOL I am no operator of a Dozer but it takes me twice as long to finish than a real operator, I also find that younger people only want to operate a excavator. I am really curious to see what is going to happen in the next 20 years...
No... but keep trying... a little harder each time... :lmao... :lmao OCR....
When just learning to operate the hand signals by the instructor isn't a bad thing, rather it's a necessity. I should clarify my earlier post by saying the thumb up and down motion to an experienced operator is irritating. Now after reading your post I have these comments..Sounds like you have a good operator there. It's been my experience that if a guy/gal is good on one piece of equipment, it follows along to a different piece of equipment. In some cases it will take longer to get used to but they usually get the hang of it. I give encouragement always as this produces confidence in a new operator. I also give "constructive criticism" as they can learn from their mistakes. Part of being a good instructor is patience as you seem to be showing. Your operator knows what you expect, he has a picture of what he wants it to look like, he just needs more practice to make it happen. Sounds to me like you are a pretty good instructor.
And one of the reasons you see alot of excavators on job sites, and clearing etc. Not many are dozer operators now, lots can make em go but not operate them.
Back to front. Hello, Dozer575. Personally, I'd put that the other way around.One reason you see some operators doing washboard work these days is that so many contractors have the notion that excavators are the be all and end all of earthmoving and the dozer boys aren't getting the practise they once used to. At least, that seems to be the case DownUnder, excavators everywhere and hardly a dozer in sight. I've been working on an extension to a waste water treatment works the last few days. I have spent most of my time in an outer area spreading trucked-in stripped grass and topsoil with a Cat 943 while there has been a 20 ton excavator spreading trucked-in fill in the main work area. Then, on Friday evening, the foreman expected me to be able to trim the area and make it drain and have it compacted in 1/2 an hour before knock-off time. It took 1 1/2 hours to get it anything like trimmed and I ran out of daylight before I got it all done to where I would have liked - - - - because the excavator operator couldn't follow a grade while he was spreading. There is a similar story up in the borrow pit where the fill is being trucked from. The excavator operator there is good at bulk loading but can't keep a level floor to save himself. We had rain over the weekend and again last night. The trucks have not been able to get back into the pit due to puddles of water everywhere over the floor resulting in soft spots all over the place, in spite of the fact that there is 4 - 5 foot fall across the floor. I didn't have time to do anything about that, even if I had known about it. I'm stood down today - with pay - because of the above.
I have to agree with you on that one Deas, that is all I see too. Gosh if you drive by an equipment yard that is all thats in the yard too, is excavators. I read someplace that younger folks would rather run excavators.
My dad made me My dad made me do it old school. If you can't make the dirt go where it's supposed to with something that's mechanically powered, get on the end of a shovel. I was amazed at how sufficient I became and the new "WANT TO" attitude I had.
"Hunger and will" Another learning tool. For those who want to teach and for those who want to learn. We all came into this world not even being able to hold our own head up. Be patient and use kind words, Yelling never helps. Another way of teaching or showing a student is when lunch hour or the end of the day comes tell him to drive the company vehicle over what he's graded at 10 mph, if he thinks it's sufficient have him drive his own vehicle at 65 over it. He will get the Idea, I think in today's company's there's not enough one on one with new operators. I was taught the basics in what ever it was I was operating then left alone, if I got it stuck I had to get it unstuck, If it broke down I had to repair it myself or help anyway. I was raised on a farm and was around my parent's, grandpa's and uncles. My dad and later on me owned a variety of different companies that had to do with machinery, if we thought it would make a buck. My dad started out being an Iron-worker then a drag-line operator and went on to becoming a lineman (back then you wasn't considered a man if you wasn't hung-over) then at the age of 26 became a pilot and went into (crop-dusting) business for himself. I was fortunate because all the guys that worked for him in each company showed me the ropes, but one thing for sure they never cut me any slack. They used to tell me that if they spilled their drinks or beer leaving the job site cause of my roads i'd have to buy the whiskey. (I'd have to give-em money I wasn't even out of school at the time LOL) I know there's a few of you older gent's on this site who can relate to those by-gone days. Safety and Production is of top priority today but there where a lot of things I learned then that's not taught today. Now that I'm push-in 40 at 39mph I realize my dad was right when he said I was getting a million dollar education. If you want to learn you will and if your foreman would rather have you sitting in the truck instead of trying to learn maybe he's the one that needs to go. These are just the things I've learned and I know their methods wouldn't be tolerated today. IF YOUR A NEW GUY AND SOMEONE IS TAKEING TIME TO HELP YOU, TELL THEM "THANK YOU "OR BETTER YET BUY-EM A DRINK IF THE CHANCE ARRISES and if you happen to be in your young 20's and you "KNOW-IT_ALL" have fun digging yourself out while everybody watches. I was very fortunate to be raised by so many "dad" figures and most of them are no longer living, but I will never forget them. Ive been following this site for some time now (2yr's) and there's a wealth of information here by a lot of different operators and I just want to say thanks because i have learned alot just reading the post. I hope my post isn't to long or offends anybody.
The bubble in my rear Back about 30 years ago, one of my very first dozer operating lessons was digging out for a pond that was to be used for filling water pulls and trucks. Since there really wasn't much that I could break or mess up, Floyd gave me a go at this project. Since I was only 14 at the time and still had some growing to do, I naturally sat lower in the seat than a normal full grown adult. Using his old 46A, Floyd first made a few pass along the back side, then a few passes along the front side. Now he backs up and starts his first push....just enough to load up the blade and he stops. Now its my turn. Keep in mind that at 14 I had spent a little time on a dozer but I really didnt know what to do with one. Floyds intentions were to help me develop my still developing bubble. So, after he explains a few things to me, he gets me up in the operators seat and hands me a bandanna. I clean my glasses off with it then he informs me that the bandanna is going to be used to cover them, not clean them. After realizing that this old man has lost it due to one too many cold ones, I cover up my glasses. He sits down next to me and guides me through a few passes. By listening to the engine, feeling the tractor come up to the area that he had earlier notched out and backing up using a windrow as a guide, dozing in the blind was really easier than you would think. The more I pushed, the easier it got. Backing up and feeling the machine climb told me it was time to grab a friction to swing the tractor over a bit. As I backed up to the top or beginning of my cut I just grabbed the opposite friction along with a little brake to get in line for my next push. By listening to the machine talk to me and feeling the way it would move beneath me, it was so easy that even a blind man could do this. With the bulk of the material pushed out, I removed the bandanna and yes, it looked like a huge bomb had went off. But more importantly I had learned what that bubble was all about. Using ones sight, along with the sound and feel of the machine as it loads the blade and the feel of the machine as it climbs the previous push or climbs the last windrow all comes from that bubble. Now that old 46A didnt have a cab or stereo or air ride seat. No sound suppression, no doors or windows and certainly no plastic panels. The seat which I sat on was bolted solid to the floor. It was easy to feel everything that way. And without any windows, there were no problems hearing what the machine was doing. I think that kind of "old school" lesson might be kind of hard to get with todays politically correct plastic luxury dozers. Anyways, my point is that its all about feeling what the machine is doing. That can be hard to do in a luxury machine. There you have it... One of my first lessons. And to Floyd Schope.... I don't remember if I ever thanked you for the work you gave me that summer or the lessons and tips you gave me about running equipment. So "thanks" Floyd. I owe ya :drinkup R.I.P.
Pete I always enjoy read your posts, but after Reading this one I found it rather Ironic that I learned the same exact way as you. To be exact I was 14 at the time, working over the summer on a farm building/ dredging out ponds for a farmer. I had run excavators for a few years then (running a kobelco 210 for him), but that was it. Never though in my wildest dream that he would ask me to use his old D6C one day to push the mud away from the pond I had just dug out. I can still remember that day perfect I remember calling over the radio saying I needed someone to come run the dozer to keep the mud pushed back so I could keep on digging the pond. 5 minutes later the farmer was there and had be in the seat showing me what the controls did. I was scared as hell at first, never been on anything like that before. Even worse, after he showed me what the controls dig he left. I'm in the back of a 300 acre farm, have not even made my first push yet, before he had to go back to the shop. maybe it was for the best:beatsme Being a little short at the age of 14 it was not the easiest thing to run, the ol'e push/ pull to turn took a while to get the hang of, along with the 1 or 2 second delay for the blade to move. Like you mentioned you had to run it by feel, Heck there was 8' of hood in front of you it seemed, just had to watch the corners of your blade as i could not see nothing as the seat was so low and 3' wide I had to wedge myself into the corner just so I could reach everything. But looking back on it now i would not change a thing, learned alot that summer and was really upset when school started back and I had to stop working there. Hard to believe how many different machines I have been on since then. And Now, 7 years later, I have a brand new 2008 Komatsu D39 with all the worlly gigs and climate controls that is going to arrive at the end of the week with my name on it. But I not going to lie it was fun on the old D6c, but those dusty 100 degree summer days and 20 degree wet winter days where your standing on the blade, butt leaning on the hood trying to get some heat off the radiator to thaw yourself out, will only be the turn of a knob to a more desireable temperature in the cab. Oh yeah, being able to hear yourself think... and not have your ears ring all night. boy I'm getting like you and writting novels in every post:notworthy
You can't learn how to operate machinery by running a hand shovel........? :Banghead Yep my dad was right. you learn more between birth and the age 14 then you will from 15 to 25 or longer.( between the age 15 and 25 the brain's connected to the wrong organ) I remember not wanting to tell my dad that I tore up the backhoe, or ran the forklift through the building and the time I took out a 1/4 of mile of fence while plowing a field and didn't even notice because a certain girl was riding in the tractor with me. Those things might of upset him but the word he hated me to say was "I CAN"T" he said and can't can't do nothing and never will. At the age of 30 ( was for me) your more than willing to learn especially if you've got mouths to feed. One thing I realize is those lessons I learned when I was young played a big roll when I started teaching or guiding someone else. You can't learn how to operate machinery by running a hand shovel........ Not True but it's a harder course . It's also impossible to listen when your mouth is open. COOL HAN LUKE the movie has a lot of life's lessons in it. Be the best shovel operator you can and I promise you when the right person takes notice it won't be the shovel he see's.
I should of told my dad it was the blinfold not the girl that made me not see the fence. LOL Nah he was right I had my head up my..... well you Know!!!! I was looking for my brain.
See what you gone and done now ok dirt witcher welcome aboard, glad you finally took the plundge, its not too bad once your in is it Great story as always ROP, and Dirtman you keep writtin novels like that :thumbsup
I was once told by a very intelligent dirt man many years ago, if you want to work with dirt you better be marginally smarter than the dirt. It took me a few years to figure out just what he meant. Get a picture in your mind of what you want the finished product to look like and work to that end. How you do it is up to you, and there is hard ways to do it and there is easy ways to do it. Being naturally lazy I always looked for the easiest and most efficient way to to a job (only once) and do it right (only once) without wrecking me or the machine. Another thing the same man told me was when I became a foreman at 19 years old -- surround yourself with good people, give them good clear direction (plant the finished picture in their mind), then leave them alone and let them do their magic. Just stay close enough to offer assistance when they ask for it or if things appear to be derailing. These words of wisdom have served me well and have served a good number of young people I have taken under my wing as well.
'Nother side.` Hi, Folks. Some interesting stories and thoughts here. I'd like to toss in another one, if I may. Learning how to doze? (I'm pretty good at that - I can doze off to sleep almost anywhere. LOL.) I would suggest that while ever you are still operating dozers, if you stop learning how to do it, you're dead from the neck up. Same applies to anything you might choose to do. Just my 0.02. Youn all have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.
Growing up I had always been around the dozers as they were our main meathod in earthmoving. I spent many many hours sitting on the 15's with my dad and uncle. Watching with awe in how they went about things and how they were able to work side by side and just know what the other was thinking(been working together for over 30 years). I had it in my head that some day I would be that good(and had never actually moved dirt with one at that young age). When I first started on a dozer it was simple taks such as pushing up stockpiles or knocking down dump truck loads, or digging holes. For a while I know I moved the blade too much and went slow when I needed to speed up. At one point I was very fusturated that I might never get to be a good dozer man. My uncle just told me that I'd been trying to hard to be fussy and not just putting the blade in the ground and moving dirt, worry bout becoming a finish man later. It wasn't long before it just came to me and i "knew" what the blade was going to do as i moved and figured out that "feeling it in the seat" was very true indeed. I got to a point where I wanted to be on the dozer every chance I could to keep getting better and figureing things out. Today my job allows me to spend plenty of time on both the dozers and excavator which i both enjoy running. Unlike many of my age(25) I'm willing to do whatever it takes to become a better operator on any and all types of machines. I might never be the expert on a dozer my dad or uncle are but it gives me a point to reach. I have many A+ operators I've watched over the years and they are my goal in operateing, to be as good as they are. Trbo Just two quick pics of my dad and uncle.
Couldn't agree more with that statement. I've always said the day you think you know it all is the day you had better die cause your top half is already. You never quit learning and you should look at all things to help learn more. Your never to old to learn and everyday shows different problems and ways to go about them. As always Deas your full of wisdom. Trbo
On The Acquistion Of Wisdom. Hi, EZ TRBO. Why, thank you, Sir, for your kind words. I 'figgered' out very early in my operating career that you can learn from the experts and you can learn from the 'mugs' (Dow-Nunder slang for beginners.) You may not learn how TO do something from the mugs but you can often learn how NOT to do it. And, sometimes even a mug will come up with a new wrinkle that is worth knowing. Never write a guy off just 'cos he only started doing it last week. In 1966, I was the youngest operator on the Hammersley iron ore railway project in Western Australia - and the first to be given a D9G dozer to work in the 'Big Cut' at 173 mile feeding the face shovels. (I've still got my big head to prove it. LOL. At that time, I had only been operating full time for about 13 months and I had about ONE hour up on D9G's. Guess they musta liked my toothy smile. LOL.) Up to that time, we had only had D8's to use on the rock cuts. Afta orl that, I dunno if eye kin staye awayk long enuff to tipe meye useyull siggnaychure. Gess I'll hafta lett ther orto-signaycthyer thingy tayke cair uv itt wyle eye gopher uh nana nap.
I Always like to listen to the old timers and watch them work to. Dad is one of the best here and i always like d to learn from him. He put me on a farm tractor when I was about 7 and later he'd often bring home a backhoe from work. When I was 12 he put me on a 912 Leibherr in a gravel pit one day to scratch around. Then later he put me in an old 230 Mitsubishi hoe. I reall ydind get to start on a dozer Till I was around 17 My brother was in the business and I mostly ran a backhoe and truck for him. He put me to helping clean up a clearing job we did. I had been on enough to know o to operate it a bit but not super great, He taught me to work in tandem with the excavator when we had a large stup to get out of the ground He'd dig around it then Id ramp down into it and give extra help from the bottom. He had a 100 Komatsu hoe and a D30P dozer. Then dad was helping a friend clear with an old HD20 AC with a cable blade. Dad was working long hours at the landfill and didnt have time to work on his obligations so he gave me a few pointers and put me to work. We did the 5 acres and it looked good. I had worked summers since I was 14 with dad at the landfill running the scraper and a little time on the D5 . And I also had to learn how to turn wrenches on them to. I finished my college as a certified machinist and went to work for a pump manufacturer that didnt want you to learn more than they wanted. I quit and worked for myself putting in septic tanks with my old Ford hoe. I got a job as a laborer in Alabama with Huffman from Poplar Bluff Mo. It was the only oppening available but they noted on my ap that I had equipment of my own and was around it alot. I alway ate dinner with the operators talking to them and then the day came where I got a break they needed a 2 foot wide trench dug to lay a cable for the carpenters. None of the operators like the new 580 Case Bh because it was a 3 stick. I told them that was no problem my Ford was like that. I dug the trench without any fancy work and backfilled. I had run a loader alot to so I got assigned to unloading trucks with the Tool carrier. Then the day came when we had an operator out and I guess one of my friends got tired of me talking about wanting to run a rearengin track loader. They put me on a D66e Komatsu I was working moving shot rock for the excavator and he realized i knew how to work in tandem with him. Hed push a boulder into the bucket and I would automatically roll back and lifit it up off the ground and back up and take it to my spoil pile. I didnt know that He had the Super in the woods watch ing me and how I had planned my dumping I kept my rock seperated for later use and my top soil and clay seperate as well. We didnt have aan onsite mechanic and if something broke it might be 2 weeks before one of the company guys came off another job. When a hose blew or some thine happened I told them I could fix it so Id fix it after work or then if it was urgent. I started off making 8.00 an hour 3 weekes earliers and at the 4th week I hade been given a 2 dollar raise and made a full time operator. I got put on the track loader mostly and then got started running the TD15 although I wasnt great at it I didnt get to spend any great deal of time on it. When i had a wreck on the way to work I got a broke leg at the same time dad had to have surgery for his heart. I took over his job as the doc wouldnt release me to work for Huffman. Id use my walker to get on the dozer of scraper. I moslty pushed off after the trucks dumped then would haul sand to cover with. I got on the dozer gonna move some white sand and learned right off sand needed a super full blade to feel it. at the end of the day I had to get the 762 out and dress up wit hthe scraper. When dad got back to work the Doc realsed me and I finished the year with huffman till dad had a relapse then I took over the landfill. And when pops came back he made me stay on the dozer making me correct a couple bad habits i picked up from one of the operators at Huffman. Dads sying was the world is made of Dirt you cant screw it up. He said its not good to bounce a dozer operator around like I was doing till I got the feel of the machine. And the he most important thing to learn is that if you quit learning youre either dead, or not operating any more. Ive been operating now for about 9 years straight now. and every day I learn something new. I strongly think that newer machines spoil the newer operators. I got to work recently with a 24 year old that belly ached about how you couldnt finish tieh a big machine I told him that when Dad worked for Wright Brothers that I rembered them spreading topsoil on road jobs with 8's An all our finish work at the landfill is done with a straight blade 5. He recently turned down a good job because the ywere gonna make him run a 650JD with power shift not a hydro stat. I think all operators should have to at least try a straight blade cable lift machine about 2 weeks and then run a trackloader a while afterthat LOL. Ive also had to teach some one to and I hate getting a person 18 to 25 that already knows it all seems they dont learn well. I learned along time ago the older folks Been there and done that. Sorry for the long winded post.
My granddad use to be a backhoe instructer and he was excellent. It was a case of get it that one, this does this, this does that, go over there and have a go, don't worry if you mess up. His motto, you've either got it or you aint. If its going to happen it will come in a matter of days. Good instructors give you a bit of direction and you learn the rest by misstakes and what suits you best. Time and practise is the best coach in your own space. Anyone can pull levers and drive. Operators think first! drive second!
The bigger the machine the machine the better. I learned on a Cat D6N. D5G is to small and the D6R is very good to learn on because you can not see the blade. I feel like most of the new operators are second guessing them selfs on the fact that if they are correcting them selfs, they think that they are messing up. You need to learn the feeling in your butt of where the blade is going instead of watching the blades movements. I always give my new operators some very hard dirt to work on (ie. haul road on the weekends.) so that if they do get a jittery blade they will not cut into the dirt as much. Also, start on a flat surface. if you start on a surface that is unlevel, then when the last part of your track goes off of that surface onto the surface that you are cutting you will have to correct FAST! Other than that put someone new blading ruts. that helps because your blade doesn't have to ride the surface, you can just put the blade down just far enough to catch the ruts and level the dirt. Speed is a big factor. 1st Gear.
dont mean to hijack this thread but I'm 16 and my family owns a d3g xl what is a good way to learn to become a better operator. Thanks
A D3G is very hard to run because the blade is very quick and the tracks are short but here you go, I feel like most of the new operators are second guessing them selfs on the fact that if they are correcting them selfs, they think that they are messing up. You need to learn the feeling in your butt of where the blade is going instead of watching the blades movements. I always give my new operators some very hard dirt to work on (ie. haul road on the weekends.) so that if they do get a jittery blade they will not cut into the dirt as much. Also, start on a flat surface. if you start on a surface that is unlevel, then when the last part of your track goes off of that surface onto the surface that you are cutting you will have to correct FAST! Other than that put someone new blading ruts. that helps because your blade doesn't have to ride the surface, you can just put the blade down just far enough to catch the ruts and level the dirt. Speed is a big factor. 1st Gear. Don't worry about it you will get it. By the way, I'm about your age too.
i find that a full blade grades better than a half full blade. i also tru to grade in second grade and i use the decellerator to slow down a bit. this will also slow your blade down a bit. start on grade and you will stay on grade and don't mess with the angle till you can straight blade well. also, listening to AC/DC has been scientifically proven to help you grade 47% better. no, really.
How to learn............................ Hi, Dfb577. My pore ol' mem'ry's gittin' a bit foggy lately but I vaguely remember that the two most essential things are called 'practice' (lotsa that needed) an' 'keeping yer eyes'n ears open when yer around people who CAN do it'. When you are starting a cut, back up onto smooth ground to start and back a little further than where you actually want to start cutting. This will give you a little forward movement to get your blade GENTLY down to the cut height so that you start cutting on grade right where you want to start. Hope this helps.
It takes three p's to be able to operate a dozer. Practice Patience Perserverance
last company I worked for I just sat back and watched the head dozer operator do his work. I learned alot by just watching his technic. And also asking him question's. I had the basic's down but he helped me refine them. Of all machines he helped me with was one of there d8'. I would follow him around and cleanup his spoils and when he felt that I had a good grasp on things he let me go and take care of other stuff that needed to be done. It did help that they both had gps on them so I knew were everything was as far as structures and curb line. One thing to tell new guys is take time and go slow a first. The old tortuse and hare thing ya know.
When I am interviewing someone who "claims" to be an operator I give them a big round granite boulder to push around with a D# Cat and 6 way blade. ointheadPush it 100 feet and don't loose it or have to back up and reset will get my attention. After that let them try it in the dirt. Oh ya, if they tell you that doing the boulder trick is stupid and dosen't prove anything tell them to exit stage left the same way they came in.:Banghead:ban
Do you really do this? Any videos?
Uuhh what man? What slop? We had the woman that would clear a haul road from the wet puss clay that trucks just spin on, down to good material, then backdrag the slop right on the haul road! The first time she did this, we had a broker in a semi dump rock box. He started backing down this haul road beside some R X R Tracks and was stopped by his trailer sinking over his super singles! He was mad and cussing and yelling at her to clear the road. I finally had the chance t talk to her and explain that the slop had to be moved off the haul road! :Banghead However it was to no avail. This woman was the poster child to "God were the drugs of the 70's good"! :duh The second time she was keeping a different haul road open for about 7 trucks in a light rain. Again she would push the slop off, ointhead and then backdrag it right back on the road! She NEVER got the concept to keep the slop off the road! We were spinning our wheels annd getting madder with each trip to the dump site! Mind you her spreading of the puss clay slop looked good enought to seed!:beatsme Just don't walk out there because you will be looking for your boots!:deadhorse
:Banghead To Specialtool, Yes, I do it. Really seperates the "blowhards" from the operators. "blowhards":ban
Specialtool again, No videos. Wish I did. Some of these guys are a real laugh to watch. Trying to teach some of them how to shoot grade with a lazer can be a real laugh too. Or as I say, they may be able to dig but can't excavate or they can push dirt but can't grade.